: MB cloth seats... could Cadillac be next target?



D148L0
02-08-05, 12:12 PM
BERLIN (Reuters) - Mercedes-Benz has agreed to offer "leather-free" versions of all its luxury cars to pacify an animal rights group that says thousands of cows are slaughtered each year for leather car seats and interiors.

After complaints from the German chapter of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, DaimlerChrysler said its Mercedes subsidiary will offer fabric or synthetic leather as options. Daimler spokeswoman Ursula Mertzig-Stein said that far from wanting leather-free cars, "our customers ... are more likely to want even more leather at the premium end. But we'll make cars without leather on demand."

PETA officials, who had threatened protests at the carmaker's Stuttgart headquarters, said they were delighted.

"When you consider that the skins of four to 15 cows are needed for each car this means thousands of cows will be spared," said PETA researcher Edmund Haferbeck. "This is a huge victory for animal rights."

http://reuters.myway.com//article/20050207/2005-02-07T153141Z_01_L07126904_RTRIDST_0_ODD-ODD-GERMANY-MERCEDES-DC.html

I, for one, can't stand PETA.

Katshot
02-08-05, 12:15 PM
So what are we going to do with all those cows?! :rolleyes:

D148L0
02-08-05, 12:18 PM
And before saying "cadillac already made cloth seats", that is not the point. Damn I'm mad.

Kev
02-08-05, 12:20 PM
So what are we going to do with all those cows?! :rolleyes:
Eat 'em! Eat 'em. EAT THEM!!

Kev

90Brougham350
02-08-05, 12:40 PM
Good God people are whimps! Who gives a damn! Animals don't have rights, because in order to have rights, you must be able to fulfill responsibilities. And how many of those damn PETAs drive Mercedes anyways? They should be driving Subarus, wearing sandals, drinking bottled water, listening to Public Radio or lesbian folk singers! Seriously! I hope if a situation ever occurs like this for Caddy, Caddy has the balls to say, "thanks, but no thanks, we'll continue to make cars our way. Go eat some tufu and pretend you like it."

Brian

JimHare
02-08-05, 12:43 PM
"When you consider that the skins of four to 15 cows are needed for each car this means thousands of cows will be spared," said PETA researcher Edmund Haferbeck. "This is a huge victory for animal rights."

Another example of incorrect reasoning propping up a foolish argument. I doubt very seriously there are any cows, even at M-B, that are ranched purely for their leather. Now, the innards will still go to sirloin steak, Gravy Train and Whiska Lickens, and the outsides will just get thrown away.

Idiots.

DopeStar 156
02-08-05, 01:20 PM
*Eating a burger and steak* I for one agree with PETA, Animal rights are very important.
http://www.waterforfood.org/newsroom/Media/BBC%20New%202%20Nov_files/_39510637_cow_203_bbc.jpg

Kev
02-08-05, 01:29 PM
*Eating a burger and steak* I for one agree with PETA, Animal rights are very important.

:histeric:

Stoneage_Caddy
02-08-05, 02:22 PM
I got one of those Peta People at work ...I talk to hima lot , i get a kick out of these kids. Well he wanted to go to lunch the other day after he showed me some PETA Propaganda showing what KFC did to some chickens . I said ok lets take my car and put on my leather jacket and walked out to my caddy . Got in and sat on my nice leather seats and took him to KFC talking about the diffrences in leather used in diffrent makes of cars. Its was fun to watch him squirm as i ate my bucket o chicken at KFC....He doesnt bug me now about my meat eating .....

Playdrv4me
02-08-05, 03:25 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21228

Elvis
02-08-05, 03:53 PM
Not all of you can access this, but...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30690

I'll quote myself:

The human body NEEDS that flesh and blood to reach peak performance. Otherwise we're a bunch of pansy wusses singing Kum-ba-yah, crocheting rugs and sweaters, sitting around a campfire in the woods waiting to be eaten by WHAT? That's right, a big fat stinky GRIZZLY BEAR.

And if you're lucky he won't be both HORNY AND HUNGRY when he gets you. Come to think of it, after he's finished reaming your bony ass, he'll probably realize he'll get more iron and protein grazing on dandilions and eating sunflower seeds than he will eating your sorry shriveled up carcass.

Eat or be eaten, that's my motto.

The views and opinions expressed within this post are not intended to resemble those of a rational individual.

This concludes my psychotic rant for the day. I hope you enjoyed it.

Stoneage_Caddy
02-08-05, 04:15 PM
that damned dillo gets bigger everyday

caddydaddy
02-08-05, 04:21 PM
PETA is an abreviation for People Eating Tasty Animals! Well, in my book that's what they should do!

If car makers arent using the hides for car seats, they will just be made into wallets, jackets and other products! People still have a huge demand for the meat, so the cows are going to be dead anyways! Makes no sense to me!

D148L0
02-08-05, 04:23 PM
that damned dillo gets bigger everyday

Yes indeed. Twice I have had nightmares where he stomps on our caddys and then tries to get back at Elvis by doing some unnatural stuff to him... :eek:

davesdeville
02-08-05, 07:40 PM
I think animals should be treated humanely within reason. Stuffing like 10 chickens in a one cubic foot box is un-cool, and feeding antibiotics to animals to fatten them up is dangerous. But I still like a big steak once in awhile and those chicken nuggets from Wendys are just kick ass, so..

90Brougham350
02-08-05, 08:42 PM
If people aren't suppose to eat meat, I'd like to ask a member of PETA why the hell humans have 4 teeth called "K9s" and several more teeth called incisors. Seems to me evolution gave us a pretty good tool to rip apart our meety diet, and some molars to chomp a salad with grilled chicken and loaded with caeser dressing once in a while too.

Brian

Spock
02-08-05, 09:33 PM
It's my understanding that creatures like cows, horses, sheep, goats, etc have been put on this earth for our use. We can use some animals to ride, others to eat, clothe ourselves and drink while some are for labour. That does not give us the right to treat them with cruelty.

There must be justice and righteousness when dealing with anything. Simply because something is not as sentient as we are and not human we cannot deny an animal of its rights. We use a part of the cow to eat, and to furnish a vehicle is allright. When treating and killing that cow, it must be done properly.

Kev
02-08-05, 09:47 PM
It's my understanding that creatures like cows, horses, sheep, goats, etc have been put on this earth for our use. We can use some animals to ride, others to eat, clothe ourselves and drink while some are for labour. That does not give us the right to treat them with cruelty.

There must be justice and righteousness when dealing with anything. Simply because something is not as sentient as we are and not human we cannot deny an animal of its rights. We use a part of the cow to eat, and to furnish a vehicle is allright. When treating and killing that cow, it must be done properly.
Here here. Nicely stated.

Kev

ben72227
02-08-05, 09:58 PM
I didn't crawl to the top of the food chain to eat a veggie burger. and as maddox says:

http://maddox.xmission.com/bigpot6.jpg

illumina
02-08-05, 10:06 PM
I didn't crawl to the top of the food chain to eat a veggie burger. and as maddox says:

http://maddox.xmission.com/bigpot6.jpg

Amen...

ben72227
02-08-05, 10:17 PM
Here's another favorite of mine:

http://www.peta-sucks.com/godscreatures1.jpg

Night Wolf
02-09-05, 01:51 AM
Here again Maddox explains my argument perfectly :)

this site is great.

http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html

1toycad
02-09-05, 05:18 PM
animals don't have rights, because in order to have rights, you must be able to fulfill responsibilities."

Brian

I am not an animal activist. So I am not going to weigh in on whether PETA's agenda is right or wrong.

But your point that animals don't have rights because they cannot fulfill responsibilities is technically incorrect. Children cannot fulfill responsibilities and they certainly have legal rights. Under the law there is not always a connection between responsibilities and rights.

Cloth should be a choice, not because PETA wants it that way, but because car seats made of out cloth can, if done right, be very comfortable. In this age of choice, why not give the public what they want.

Mercedes already makes a product called MB-Tex that is a high quality vinyl that, for all practical purposes, can pass off as leather. So they do not need to make seats made of cloth.

As the judge in the "My Cousin Vinny" movie said to cousin Vinny.

"Next time you walk into my courtroom, you better be wearing something different, preferably made out of cloth!"

Maybe this is what the PETA people had in mind! :lildevil:

1toycad
02-09-05, 05:26 PM
If people aren't suppose to eat meat, I'd like to ask a member of PETA why the hell humans have 4 teeth called "K9s" and several more teeth called incisors. Seems to me evolution gave us a pretty good tool to rip apart our meety diet, and some molars to chomp a salad with grilled chicken and loaded with caeser dressing once in a while too.

Brian

If we evolved from apes (and I, for one, am not willing to admit that my great-great-great-great-great.....grandpappy was an ape) then we should all be vegetarians.

All the great apes, gorillas, orangutans and chimps are vegetarians.

Incidentally, Hitler was reportedly a vegetarian and an artist (though not a very good one). :hide:

Kev
02-09-05, 05:50 PM
If we evolved from apes (and I, for one, am not willing to admit that my great-great-great-great-great.....grandpappy was an ape) then we should all be vegetarians.

All the great apes, gorillas, orangutans and chimps are vegetarians.

Incidentally, Hitler was reportedly a vegetarian and an artist (though not a very good one). :hide:
I hate to contradict you (no, that's not true, I don't really mind at all) but chimps are omnivorous also. They have been know to hunt as a team, their quarry? Monkeys. You haven't been keeping up on your Discovery Channel watching!

Kev

Kev
02-09-05, 05:54 PM
By the way, I am a man of faith, I beleive in creation. When it comes to the theory of evolution, well, I just don't have enough faith for that one!

airbalancer
02-09-05, 05:57 PM
Here's another favorite of mine:

http://www.peta-sucks.com/godscreatures1.jpg

Isn't Ralph :worship: from there, maybe he put the sign up

D148L0
02-09-05, 07:03 PM
If we evolved from apes ... then we should all be vegetarians.

All the great apes, gorillas, orangutans and chimps are vegetarians.
Terrible logic. And incorrect, as it has been pointed.



Incidentally, Hitler was reportedly a vegetarian
That is also incorrect. He more or less followed a vegetarian diet for medical indication, and not for a long period.

1toycad
02-09-05, 07:03 PM
I hate to contradict you (no, that's not true, I don't really mind at all) but chimps are omnivorous also. They have been know to hunt as a team, their quarry? Monkeys. You haven't been keeping up on your Discovery Channel watching!

Kev

Aren't hose like rogue chimps or something? You know, like gang banger chimps? I could've sworn that chimps were herbivores. I guess you are right, I better stop watching the Farm Life Channel and tune in to the Discovery Channel instead.

1toycad
02-09-05, 07:08 PM
Terrible logic. And incorrect, as it has been pointed.



That is also incorrect. He more or less followed a vegetarian diet for medical indication, and not for a long period.

So what ar eyou saying Diablo, that I should also watch the History Channel? :histeric:

I am willing to bet that when Hitler decided to invade Poland he was in his vegetarian diet.

And when he decided to capture Stalingrad he was also in his vegetarian diet.

OK to set the record staright on what chimps, gorillas and orangutans actually eat, here is an interesting article (isn't the Internet great?)


By H. Leon Abrams, Jr.
Associate Professor Emeritus of Anthropology E.G.C.,
University System of Georgia

One of the arguments proffered by vegetar- ians is that our primate ancestors were vegetarians and, to be healthy, we should eat the same kind of diet.

An article entitled “The Western Lowland Gorilla Diet Has Implications For the Health of Humans and Other Hominids,” which appeared in a recent issue of Human and Clinical Nutrition, makes this argument. With reference to the authors’ study of the vegetarian diet of gorillas, the research is sound, but to claim that humans would be better off with a vegetarian diet like that of the gorillas is spurious and equivocal.

One misconception about the gorilla diet is that it contains no animal products. On the contrary, all of the great ape groups take in some animal protein, whether overtly or inadvertently, by consuming insects, insect eggs and the larvae that nest on the plants and fruits they eat. In her pioneering work on chimpanzees, Jane Goodall discovered to her amazement, and to the amazement of the rest of the world, that chimpanzees kill and eat monkeys and make a tool to extract termites from their hills (homes), and that they went to considerable effort to obtain these foods. It is also significant that meat is the only food they share with other chimpanzees.

All monkeys, lemurs and apes are classified as vegetarians and/or fruitivors, but they consume a small amount of animal protein by unconsciously eating the small insects, their eggs and larvae on the plant foods they select to eat. The National Zoo in Washington, D.C. tried to breed the near extinct fruitivorian South American golden marmoset in captivity with no result, but when a little animal protein was added to their diet, they began to breed, which proves that they require a small amount of animal protein to be healthy and reproduce.

With the exception of humans, the native habitat of all the primates is in the tropics. By contrast, for thousands of years, humans have inhabited all the land masses of the world, except for Anarctica. The first humans, the Australopithicines, circa 2 million years ago, were omnivorous. Recently, some researchers, in examining their fossil teeth, have claimed that the Australopithicines were vegetarians; but the evidence indicates they were omnivorous. It is clear that by the time “humans” evolved, from Homo erectus through to what is now considered “modern” humans, such as Cro-Magnon man, humans were primarily meat eaters. According to J. Brownoski, (The Ascent of Man), it was meat-eating that led to the rise of modern man. Homo erectus invented stone tools for hunting big game which led to the invention of more advanced stone tools by Cro-Magnon to modern humans.

It was the quest for meat that led Homo sapiens to colonize the world. They followed the herds of animals. When overpopulation caused the animal food supply to dwindle, many moved on, from tropical Africa to North Africa, Asia, Europe, the Americas and Australia. They walked and adapted to the cold climates and were able to do so because meat is compact energy, and one kill of a mammoth or other big game could feed many people and lasted for a long period of time; whereas gathering plants and fruits to eat was seasonal. Until the early part of the 20th century there were peoples who lived almost entirely on animal food. For example, the Eskimos of North America and Lapps of Scandinavia lived almost entirely on animal protein and were very healthy.

However, when we refer to meat, remember that meat entails fats which are necessary for sound health. The protein and minerals in the meat cannot be utilized without the nutrients in the fat. Both Steffanson and Brody, who spent time with the Eskimos and Indians of North America, reported that these people saved the fat from game animals and always ate their meat with fat.

The Eskimos ate raw meat, which is very healthy, but there is a caveat for modern society: fresh meat often contains bacteria and parasites that can cause illness, and even death, therefore it is recommended by the government that all meat should be cooked well enough to kill all such pollutants.

Humans only turned to plant foods as major food sources when, due to the ever-increasing human population, herds of animals became scarce. They learned to domesticate some animals and invented agriculture.

Humans learned to use fire, to any extent, in the Paleolithic age. Cooking certainly was necessary, because grains cannot be eaten raw. It is also interesting to note that when humans began eating a diet high in grains, the incidence of tooth decay increased considerably. Tooth decay increased dramatically when refined grains (wheat and rice) became staple diets for a large percentage of the world’s population.

For normal growth and sound health throughout life, the human species requires eight amino acids which their bodies cannot manufacture, vitamin B12 and some essential minerals. The only viable source of these amino acids and of vitamin B12 is animal protein such as red meat, fish, shell fish, eggs, milk, insects and worms. The lack of these amino acids results in serious illnesses. For example, kwashiorkor is a deficiency disease which impedes the normal development of vital brain cells and stunts growth. People may be getting all they need to eat to satisfy their hunger from grains and other plant foods. They may even become plump on a diet of grains, but their normal growth and development is stunted. For instance, some Maya Indian peasant groups of Guatemala primarily have only corn, beans and squash to eat. They like meat, but are too poor to purchase meats or raise animals. Feeding domesticated animals would sacrifice land needed to grow the grains on which they subsist. This condition is common over much of the world.

Unlike humans, the digestive tract of gorillas is equipped to manufacture the essential amino acids and other vital nutrients. The human digestive system is not so equipped and we must rely on animal proteins.

It is interesting to note that advocates of vegetarian diets who use the diet of apes as a rational to support their food choice—asserting that the ape diet is more “natural”—fail to advocate eating a diet of all-raw plant foods as the apes do. The basic plant foods that humans eat must be cooked. Vegan advocates also say that by combining grains with legumes, one can get the essential amino acids. Though this may be theoretically possible, in practice it is not viable and extremely difficult or impossible to accomplish, particularly if robust health is to be achieved and maintained generation after generation. Of course, due to modern technology, many of the essential nutrients can be supplied by synthetic or processed products, but these merely duplicate what is naturally in animal protein and are often extracted from them. To be on the safe side, it is wise to procure essential nutrients from their best source—animal protein.

Anthropologists have wondered why certain foods came to be prohibited by some religions. The anthropologist, Dr. Marvin Harris, in his two extremely readable, informative and enjoyable books, Cannibals and Kings and Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches, shows that the prohibition of pigs (pork) by the Jewish religion and cows by the Hindu religion came about due to the ever-increasing pressure of population growth.

Pigs eat grain. It takes lots of land to grow grain for wheat which could feed more humans than it could feed pigs that require the grain to become meat on the human dinner-table. So wheat was in competition with pigs and the wheat won out when human referees decided wheat was more efficient in feeding the growing population. So pork wasn’t worth the grain and was prohibited by the religious leaders as a strategy to feed the population more efficiently.

Likewise, in India where beef was widely eaten at an earlier time in history, the Hindu religion prohibited it because the cow was more valuable for its milk and dung than as edible beef. Milk from the cow provided animal protein and the dung provided fuel for the fires to cook food. Religious sanctions are a very powerful societal force of control. (In these books by Harris, only a few pages are devoted to this subject, but the books are highly recommended for gaining insight into human behavior.)

In economically diverse societies where animal protein is scarce among the poorer classes and more abundant in the increasingly affluent sectors of society, it is interesting to note the differences in body height that seems to reflect the way people are forced to eat. The less affluent sectors subsist primarily on grains and a few vegetables and lack the height that is found among the more affluent ruling classes. This situation can develop as a result of overpopulation because too many humans inhabiting in a region can deplete the carrying capacity of the land upon which the food is produced.

The ancient Maya of the Classical Period used the slash and burn strategy to create more arable land as their population outgrew the surrounding forest. In order to create fields in which to grow corn, squash, beans and chili peppers, forest land was cleared by the destructive method of cutting down trees and burning the debris. This is a very brutal strategy within a fragile ecosystem that rapidly exhausts the soil. The Mayan diet consisted chiefly of the vegetables they grew, a few fruits and game. But the game became scarce as the forest was cleared for farm land and only the tiny ruling class had access to animal protein. (They had the domestic turkey and dog, but these animals ate the same food as humans.) This ecologically unstable situation led to the collapse of the Classical Maya civilization when they abandoned their great cities. The point for this article is that the skeletons unearthed from the Mayan burial grounds reveal that the ruling class was taller than the masses. The nobility supplemented their basic diet of corn, beans and squash with what animal protein was available; whereas the masses had practically none.

So what can the diet of gorillas tell us about what constitutes a healthy diet for humans? Little if anything. Humans are omnivores and need animal protein as well as plant foods to maintain sound health. The author of this article and Dr. Melvin E. Page recommend, as presented in their book, Your Body is Your Best Doctor, the following as a sound diet to help maintain optimal health: Eat a variety of fresh animal protein and fats, a wide variety of fresh vegetables, fruits and nuts and whole grain breads and cereals.

For a complete bibliography on this subject, see “The Relevance of Paleolithic Diet in Determining Contemporary Nutritional Needs,” H. Leon Abrams, Jr. The Journal of Applied Nutrition. Vol. 31, Numbers 1 and 2.

D148L0
02-09-05, 07:28 PM
So what ar eyou saying Diablo, that I should also watch the History Channel? :histeric:
Yes, you should.


OK to set the record staright on what chimps, gorillas and orangutans actually eat, here is an interesting article (isn't the Internet great?)
Yes, it is. Specially when you can comprehend what you read...



An article entitled “The Western Lowland Gorilla Diet Has Implications For the Health of Humans and Other Hominids,” which appeared in a recent issue of Human and Clinical Nutrition, makes this argument. With reference to the authors’ study of the vegetarian diet of gorillas, the research is sound, but to claim that humans would be better off with a vegetarian diet like that of the gorillas is spurious and equivocal.
Here comes the fun:


One misconception about the gorilla diet is that it contains no animal products. On the contrary, all of the great ape groups take in some animal protein, whether overtly or inadvertently, by consuming insects, insect eggs and the larvae that nest on the plants and fruits they eat. In her pioneering work on chimpanzees, Jane Goodall discovered to her amazement, and to the amazement of the rest of the world, that chimpanzees kill and eat monkeys and make a tool to extract termites from their hills (homes), and that they went to considerable effort to obtain these foods. It is also significant that meat is the only food they share with other chimpanzees.
This is what Kev and I just mentioned. An animal that eats Herbs+meat+fruits is called omnivore...

Is funny, your post only proves our point.

klebrun
02-09-05, 07:46 PM
It's my understanding that creatures like cows, horses, sheep, goats, etc have been put on this earth for our use. We can use some animals to ride, others to eat, clothe ourselves and drink while some are for labour. That does not give us the right to treat them with cruelty.

There must be justice and righteousness when dealing with anything. Simply because something is not as sentient as we are and not human we cannot deny an animal of its rights. We use a part of the cow to eat, and to furnish a vehicle is allright. When treating and killing that cow, it must be done properly.

The Mirror Universe Spock would beg to differ (is begging an emotion?). To give an animal rights would be a sign of weakness. Terror must be maintained, or the Human Empire is doomed.

Seriously though, I agree with what you say. I love my steaks and my leather seats. However, if I had to kill the cow myself, I would try to make it as quick and painless as possible.

1toycad
02-09-05, 10:59 PM
Is funny, your post only proves our point.

I guess you are so unaccostumed to being right, that you don't recognize it when someone agrees with you. :cookoo:


Do I need to paint you a picture? :histeric:

Spock
02-10-05, 12:47 AM
The Mirror Universe Spock would beg to differ (is begging an emotion?). To give an animal rights would be a sign of weakness. Terror must be maintained, or the Human Empire is doomed.

Seriously though, I agree with what you say. I love my steaks and my leather seats. However, if I had to kill the cow myself, I would try to make it as quick and painless as possible.

But as kirk said, I'm a man of honour in both universes :)


Muslims have similar kosher laws like the Jews so when an animal is killed, their three main blood vessels in the throat are slit, and the blood is drained. This being done while saying a prayer.

We could kill cows using the tantalus field...eh eh eh

D148L0
02-10-05, 11:52 AM
I guess you are so unaccostumed to being right, that you don't recognize it when someone agrees with you. :cookoo:
I suppose... :rolleyes:
What if we make it twice in a row? Go and do some research, then come back and agree with me about Hitler's diet.
Lol.

HotRodSaint
02-10-05, 12:38 PM
Seems to me evolution gave us...

If all life evolved from the same amoeba, then all life is equal and PETA has a point of logic when they defend 'cows' and other animals.

But then you'd have to have an almost dogmatic faith in this theory of evolution to belive that way. :halo:

HotRodSaint
02-10-05, 12:41 PM
Incidentally, Hitler was reportedly a vegetarian and an artist (though not a very good one). :hide:

He was also an evolutionist. :lildevil:

davesdeville
02-10-05, 09:14 PM
Kinda like the leaders of the Spanish inquisition were creationist meat eaters...

HotRodSaint
02-10-05, 11:55 PM
Kinda like the leaders of the Spanish inquisition were creationist meat eaters...

Who were nothing like the Aztec creationist human flesh eaters...