: [DIY] Install CTS-V Brembo Brakes on CTS (Part 3, INSTALL NEW PARTS, FRONT)



Mistercoffee2
06-19-13, 01:18 AM
I had to trim one tab on the hub splash cover because the fly cut on the steering knuckle of my 2008 was to small. I have no idea in what year they will fit without cutting. This was the only part that did not bolt on correctly.

Re-install hub with new Splash Guards (Torque=100 lb ft):
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16111312.png

The two Splash Guards. What kind of "splash" will this guard?
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16112215.png

Hub bolts Torque=100 lb ft
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16112733.png

Re-install speed sensor:
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16112750.png

Install new rotor with old screw:
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16113005.jpg

Install new caliper with new bolts (166 lb ft): WOW that’s a lot, not sure I got there because my torque wrench only goes to 150 lb ft.
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/CaliperampBolts.jpg

Installing the pads in the Calipers can be done in advance if you wish. Might be easier on your garage workbench. The process is the same. (As you will see in the upcoming install of the rear brakes, I did pre-assemble the calipers.) Torquing the guide pin bolt to 48 lb ft may be easier after the caliper in mounted. If you pre-assemble, don't forget the grease!

Remove caliper guide pin bolt:
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16113830.png

Install new Pads. Apply Grease to the ends of the pad brackets (careful not to get any in the pad surface or rotor) and on all six caliper pistons where they contact the pads (supplied with Hawk Pads). The pads are the same for both sides.
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16114514.png

Install the top guide pin from the rear and seat with hammer and punch.
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16114614.png

Re-install the Caliper Guide Pin Bolt (48 lb ft) and Brake Line (36 lb ft) and reconnect the brake line support bracket.
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16114935-1.png


I’m sorry. I got mixed up in my photo taking sequence. In the following two photos the Guide Pin Bolt should be in place as it is in the one above.


Install the end of the pad retaining spring under the guide pin with “T” under the tabs on the pads. (As shown in photo)
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/IMG_1786.jpg

Push down the lower end of the spring and insert the lower guide pin from the rear. Seat with hammer. (As shown in photo)
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/IMG_1787.jpg

Bleed: Well that depends, see below. For now I will show you this mess of hoses which I will be using later
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16122436.jpg

Install wheel (140 lb ft):Wheel with new caliper:
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16123525.jpg

Now step back and admire the results.

If you are going to take a break here and do the rear brakes later (as I am because I don’t have all the parts for the rear yet) you will need to bleed the front brakes and "Bed In" the pads. I have no friend to help with the "old pump and hold" method so I used the Phoenix Injector in the suck mode to get the air out of the front brakes then did the bed in process. All is well but I cannot give any raving reviews yet. Have to wait for the rear brakes and let things "bed in" read good. Also, I thing the steel lines will help with paddle feel. When I complete the rear I will flush the system.

Hawk Performance Bed In / Burnishing Procedure


1. After installing new brake pads, make 6 to 10 stops from approximately 30-35 mph applying moderate pressure.
2. Make an additional 2 to 3 hard stops from approximately 40 to 45 mph.
3. DO NOT DRAG BRAKES!
4. Allow 15 minutes for brake system to cool down

After step 4 your new pads are ready for use.


After all 4 corners are done I recommend flushing the entire system with a few pints of (colored) high temp DOD 4/5 fluid.

Examples of high temp, racing fluids:

Motul RBF 600 DOT 6 (Red) $19 - 2 pints
ATE Super Blue DOT 4 (Blue) also comes in (Amber) $15 - 1 quart


If you are NOT going to flush the entire brake system, 2-3 pints of DOT 3 /4 brake fluid of your choice should be fine for bleeding all four corners.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steps for Front

1. Turn the steering to lock in the opposite direction to where you will be working
2. Loosen Lug nuts turn
3. Raise and support car
4. Remove wheel
5. Remove and store brake line
6. Remove caliper bolts
7. Remove caliper
8. Remove rotor screw and rotor
9. Remove speed sensor
10. Remove hub bolts
11. Remove hub and Splash Guard
12. Clean up area
13. Install hub and new backing plates (100 lb ft)
14. Install speed sensor
15. Install new rotor and screw
16. Install new caliper and new bolts (166 lb ft)
17. Remove caliper guide pin bolt
18. Connect brake line (36 lb ft)
19. Apply grease to caliper and pads
20. Install new pads
21. Install caliper guide pin bolt (48 lb ft)
22. Install pin kit
23. Bleed
24. Install wheel (140 lb ft)
25. Bed in Pads


That’s it for the front brakes and all the Texas heat I can take for now.

COMING LATER - REAR BRAKES


Part 4, DISASSEMBLY (REAR)
Part 5, INSTALL NEW PARTS (REAR)
Part 6, BLEEDING BRAKES AND BED IN THE NEW PADS



I'm sticking this here for later use.

Proper Bleed Order:

1. Passenger Rear – INNER
2. Passenger Rear - OUTER
3. Driver Rear - INNER
4. Driver Rear - OUTER
5. Passenger Front - INNER
6. Passenger Front - OUTER
7. Driver Front - INNER
8. Driver Front - OUTER

is250sp
06-19-13, 02:32 AM
did you reinstall the oem brake line? what happened to the stainless steel brake line kit?

Mistercoffee2
06-19-13, 02:42 AM
Yes for now. The Goodridge lines are on backorder until mid July. When they come in I will install and flush the brake system.

is250sp
06-19-13, 10:49 AM
Can the oem brake line be utilized or do we need the stainless lines? What is the V line made of?

is250sp
06-19-13, 01:18 PM
Would you mind adding a diy for bleeding the brakes?

Mistercoffee2
06-19-13, 02:13 PM
Can the oem brake line be utilized or do we need the stainless lines? What is the V line made of?

The simple answer includes a question: Yes you can use the oem lines. But why would you? Check this out. It's from LS1Tech but the work is being done on a GEN1 CTS-V. Should answer your question. In fact I may steal some quotes from it for my DIY. SHHH, don't tell anyone.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1446040-goodridge-stainless-steel-brake-line-installation.html

reciprocity
06-19-13, 06:25 PM
Great writeup! Thanks for taking the time to detail your project -- and for even including all the necessary part numbers!

Mistercoffee2
06-20-13, 02:29 AM
Has anyone wonder how you can get away with removing and reinstall the hub without doing a wheel alignment?

I was also surprised that the rear flange on the hub is not an exact fit (to the .001") into the bore hole of the steering knuckle. The only thing aligning the hub is the three bolts.

Merge
06-25-13, 09:58 AM
Amazing writeup! :D
They look great!
How do they feel? Was it worth it?

Mistercoffee2
06-25-13, 01:48 PM
Amazing writeup! :D
They look great!
How do they feel? Was it worth it?

Thanks. To be honest the feel is good but it's not fair to judge until the work is done. The rear brakes and braded lines will be done in a few days. The real problem with judging them now is that I did not do a proper job of bleeding the system following the front install. That will come after the rear and line are done.

ghoward10
06-27-13, 12:36 PM
Awesome Job!!! Can this mod be done on a CTS4???? Dying to get the yellow brembo's on my black diamond cts4. Thanks.

Mistercoffee2
06-27-13, 01:11 PM
I will compair some of the stock CTS vs CTS4 brake components part numbers. If they are the same it should be a go.

I'll get back to you here.

EDIT: Responded to PM

StEvO_1222
10-26-13, 02:48 PM
I will compair some of the stock CTS vs CTS4 brake components part numbers. If they are the same it should be a go.

I'll get back to you here.



Did you ever find out if this upgrade is compatible with CTS4 models? Thanks.

Mistercoffee2
10-26-13, 06:20 PM
Did you ever find out if this upgrade is compatible with CTS4 models? Thanks.

I know very little about the AWD setup. Many of the part numbers are not the same as the RWD for obvious reasons. The front Caliper on the 2012 AWD is in front of the knuckle, and on the RWD it is in the rear of the knuckle. Because of this I'm not willing to say the MOD will work.

Are yours like this? [Credits: Photo of beautiful Coupe lifted from gohawks63.]

StEvO_1222
11-05-13, 11:08 AM
I know very little about the AWD setup. Many of the part numbers are not the same as the RWD for obvious reasons. The front Caliper on the 2012 AWD is in front of the knuckle, and on the RWD it is in the rear of the knuckle. Because of this I'm not willing to say the MOD will work.

Are yours like this? [Credits: Photo of beautiful Coupe lifted from gohawks63.]

My calipers are in the front (like your pic). Not sure what to do. I just ordered all the parts from your list :(. I guess I'll take a look at everything with the wheel off and see if it can be made to work. If not, I might be putting a complete set of CTS-V Brakes up in the classifieds.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=158578&d=1383663729

is250sp
11-05-13, 12:13 PM
That sucks man. Even if you "made it to work" I'd still worry since it wasn't designed for it. These are brakes we talking about, not some rear spoiler can be made to work. At least amazon has a good return policy.

gohawks63
11-05-13, 01:25 PM
I know very little about the AWD setup. Many of the part numbers are not the same as the RWD for obvious reasons. The front Caliper on the 2012 AWD is in front of the knuckle, and on the RWD it is in the rear of the knuckle. Because of this I'm not willing to say the MOD will work. Are yours like this? [Credits: Photo of beautiful Coupe lifted from gohawks63.]

Alas. She is in search of a new home as I gave her up for a V coupe.

conedoctor
11-05-13, 03:47 PM
Compare the master cylinder and bias valves between the two cars.

StEvO_1222
11-05-13, 03:53 PM
That sucks man. Even if you "made it to work" I'd still worry since it wasn't designed for it. These are brakes we talking about, not some rear spoiler can be made to work. At least amazon has a good return policy.
I still have a small bit of hope after looking at the part codes for both the RWD and AWD J55 Calipers.
Apparently they are mirrored. The Right front Caliper part for RWD cars is the same as the Left front Caliper part for AWD cars.
So if I am able to mount the Left caliper on the Right and vice versus for the other caliper I may be in business.

Mistercoffee2
11-07-13, 01:52 PM
I still have a small bit of hope after looking at the part codes for both the RWD and AWD J55 Calipers.
Apparently they are mirrored. The Right front Caliper part for RWD cars is the same as the Left front Caliper part for AWD cars.
So if I am able to mount the Left caliper on the Right and vice versus for the other caliper I may be in business.

That's good news. I will be waiting to see the results.

StEvO_1222
11-07-13, 07:49 PM
Compare the master cylinder and bias valves between the two cars.

Both the ABS Modulator Valve and Master Cylinder part numbers are the same between the 3.6 and the CTS-V

Mistercoffee2
11-07-13, 11:28 PM
Both the ABS Modulator Valve and Master Cylinder part numbers are the same between the 3.6 and the CTS-V

I also verified this before starting the MOD.

StEvO_1222
11-08-13, 12:34 PM
Starting to feel a bit better about the possibility of this working on the AWD models.
Just spoke with my brother who is a automotive mechanical engineer and he seems to think there will be no dangerous problems with the install. Assuming there are no clearance or mounting issues.
Only thing left is to test fit the parts and see what happens.
Now I just need to get my hands on a torque wrench that goes up to 166 ft/lbs. Any thoughts on where to get or rent one?

Mistercoffee2
11-08-13, 05:06 PM
Starting to feel a bit better about the possibility of this working on the AWD models.
Just spoke with my brother who is a automotive mechanical engineer and he seems to think there will be no dangerous problems with the install. Assuming there are no clearance or mounting issues.
Only thing left is to test fit the parts and see what happens.
Now I just need to get my hands on a torque wrench that goes up to 166 ft/lbs. Any thoughts on where to get or rent one?

I got a loaner 36mm (rear hub) from Auto Zone, don't know what other tools they loan.

mrcoupe2002
11-08-13, 05:44 PM
Install wheel (140 lb ft):Wheel with new caliper:
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l586/mistercoffee2/CTS-V%20Brake%20MOD/2013-06-16123525.jpg

Just curious why you tightened the wheels down with that torque setting. The manual calls for 100 lb ft of torque for the wheel nuts. The conversion for this is 140 N m of torque, could this just be a typo?

Been reading this thread because I'm thinking of doing the conversion myself to offset the extra load on my OEM brakes and longer stopping distances after installing larger rims on the car.

StEvO_1222
11-08-13, 05:47 PM
I got a loaner 36mm (rear hub) from Auto Zone, don't know what other tools they loan.
Just picked up a loaner wrench from Pepboys.
Going to test fit everything this weekend. Finger Crossed

StEvO_1222
11-09-13, 07:29 PM
Test fit the brakes today on the CTS4. Everything went quite well. The calipers and rotors fit perfectly.
The Goodridge brake lines for the CTS-V however, are not long enough. Apparently Goodridge makes a stainless kit for the CTS4 (part # 15018). So I will return the CTS-V lines and go for the CTS4 lines.
The only other hiccup is the clearance of my OEM 19" wheels. They will require about 8-10mm spacers in order to work with my wheels.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=159873&d=1384039209
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=159881&d=1384039209
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=159889&d=1384039209

Mistercoffee2
11-09-13, 08:53 PM
Just curious why you tightened the wheels down with that torque setting. The manual calls for 100 lb ft of torque for the wheel nuts. The conversion for this is 140 N m of torque, could this just be a typo?

Been reading this thread because I'm thinking of doing the conversion myself to offset the extra load on my OEM brakes and longer stopping distances after installing larger rims on the car.

Below is from the ALLDATA 2011 CTS-V manual. I also have the hard copy manuals for the 2008 CTS and the spec is the same.

Mistercoffee2
11-09-13, 09:06 PM
Test fit the brakes today on the CTS4. Everything went quite well. The calipers and rotors fit perfectly.
The Goodridge brake lines for the CTS-V however, are not long enough. Apparently Goodridge makes a stainless kit for the CTS4 (part # 15018). So I will return the CTS-V lines and go for the CTS4 lines.
The only other hiccup is the clearance of my OEM 19" wheels. They will require about 8-10mm spacers in order to work with my wheels.

Wow, are you sure, 8-10mm is a lot. Are your wheels 18"? In the photo it looks like a smaller spacer would work but maybe you did not have them tightened. If you have to go 8-10mm you will have to replace the studs with longer ones. On a positive note, the 11mm studs from D3 set the tires out and look great. They also come with new studs. I have no idea if they are recommended for AWD.

Also, did the AWD not have a splash guard behind the rotor?

StEvO_1222
11-10-13, 07:24 PM
Wow, are you sure, 8-10mm is a lot. Are your wheels 18"? In the photo it looks like a smaller spacer would work but maybe you did not have them tightened. If you have to go 8-10mm you will have to replace the studs with longer ones. On a positive note, the 11mm studs from D3 set the tires out and look great. They also come with new studs. I have no idea if they are recommended for AWD.

I was not able to completely bolt the wheel on flush to the hub due to the contact with the caliper. There's about 5mm gap behind the wheel. They are OEM 19" wheels BTW.
The D3 spacers look like a quality product but I think I am going to go with these from Weapon X for a lot less.
http://weaponxmotorsports.myshopify.com/collections/suspension/products/adaptec-speedware-wheel-spacers
I assume I will have to add spacers to both front and back to keep the AWD track equal and happy. If anyone has any info on whether this is necessary that would be great.


Also, did the AWD not have a splash guard behind the rotor?
Here's a pic of the splash guard. I was able to bend it out of the way for the test fit. I may just trim these shields down and get a refund on the V shields.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=160274&d=1384125042

Mistercoffee2
11-11-13, 02:24 AM
Here's a pic of the splash guard. I was able to bend it out of the way for the test fit. I may just trim these shields down and get a refund on the V shields.

That's a good idea because the V "splash guard" is a joke. I really can't see what it does.

It will be much harder in the rear due to the parking brake backing plate but the rear is most likely the same as the RWD. I don"t envy you having to remove the hubs to change the studs. At lease on mine I only had axles in the rear and the front was easy.

The spacers at weaponxmotorsports look great. I got mine form motorsport-tech and they did not come with studs. I got the studs from Auto Zone. I had CTS-V wheels and no clearance problem. I added the spacers anyway for looks.

Please keep us updated, with photos. (nice photos by the way)

StEvO_1222
11-12-13, 10:26 AM
The spacers at weaponxmotorsports look great. I got mine form motorsport-tech and they did not come with studs. I got the studs from Auto Zone. I had CTS-V wheels and no clearance problem. I added the spacers anyway for looks.)

I think they are actually the same spacers both are branded "adaptec". Only difference is the WeaponX spacers come with studs and extended thread lug nuts.
Ben at weapon X told me the studs can be removed from the hub pretty easily. Was that the case with yours Mistercoffee? I'm won't need a hydraulic press or anything like that will I?

Mistercoffee2
11-13-13, 03:23 PM
I think they are actually the same spacers both are branded "adaptec". Only difference is the WeaponX spacers come with studs and extended thread lug nuts.
Ben at weapon X told me the studs can be removed from the hub pretty easily. Was that the case with yours Mistercoffee? I'm won't need a hydraulic press or anything like that will I?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX9te2iFH3E

It is not my style to use brute force, such as the big hammer in this video, to remove a car part. Although it may work I went with the service manual and removed the hubs. As I recall there is not enough clearance behind the mounted hub to push out the stud and there is no "notch" as described in the video. After removing the hub, no small task, I put a small socket behind the stud to give it a place to go, put it in a big vise and pushed it out. Helper bar required on the vise handle. I tried using a deep socket and vise to push in the new stud but could not. I used the same method as in the video.

A world of caution. Don't over use one lug nut when pulling in the lugs. Pick up 4 lug nuts at Auto Zone and use one for each wheel and throw it out. The threads get damaged and in turn damage the threads on the stud.

Final thought. There is no way these studs will pop out as easy as the one did in the video. But then removing the hubs is not fun on the rear of RWD and all of the AWD. If you thing there is clearance to remove the stud, go for it. But the hub is not indestructible.

StEvO_1222
11-13-13, 07:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX9te2iFH3E

It is not my style to use brute force, such as the big hammer in this video, to remove a car part. Although it may work I went with the service manual and removed the hubs. As I recall there is not enough clearance behind the mounted hub to push out the stud and there is no "notch" as described in the video. After removing the hub, no small task, I put a small socket behind the stud to give it a place to go, put it in a big vise and pushed it out. Helper bar required on the vise handle. I tried using a deep socket and vise to push in the new stud but could not. I used the same method as in the video.

A world of caution. Don't over use one lug nut when pulling in the lugs. Pick up 4 lug nuts at Auto Zone and use one for each wheel and throw it out. The threads get damaged and in turn damage the threads on the stud.

Final thought. There is no way these studs will pop out as easy as the one did in the video. But then removing the hubs is not fun on the rear of RWD and all of the AWD. If you thing there is clearance to remove the stud, go for it. But the hub is not indestructible.

Wonder if it's worth investing in a small arbor press like this for the job.
http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_18449.jpg
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-arbor-press-3552.html

Mistercoffee2
11-13-13, 08:27 PM
Wonder if it's worth investing in a small arbor press like this for the job.

I think that would do it. Need a place to bolt it down. Good price.