: Gettiing ready to buy a used 08



law87
06-18-13, 07:59 PM
hey guys, I'm getting ready to buy a used 08 during inspection my mechanic found the following problem

engine rear main seal, valve cover gasket, rear: differential seal leaking

its not dripping alot (not into the ground) but if you swipe your finger on it you can tell, I'm a little worried, closing the deal in 2 day, is this a common problem? Checked carfax its clean, as in no accident.

test drive went fine also.


I also read somewhere that when the engine is hot, you shouldnt be checking for oil level because it could show a deficit, well when the mechanic took it for a test drive and came back he notice the oil was low. so my questions is, is it really low or because the engine is holding up the oil...sorry I'm not a mechanic, wish I understand what he was talking about.

law87
06-18-13, 11:11 PM
bump no one can chime in? :(

jghiller
06-18-13, 11:19 PM
Always wait about 10 minutes or so after running hot before checking oil level. I think its even stated in the owners manual to wait a bit before checking oil.

law87
06-19-13, 12:20 AM
Always wait about 10 minutes or so after running hot before checking oil level. I think its even stated in the owners manual to wait a bit before checking oil.

do you have personal experience?

gohawks63
06-19-13, 12:40 AM
Always wait about 10 minutes or so after running hot before checking oil level. I think its even stated in the owners manual to wait a bit before checking oil.

From the owner's manual...

Checking Engine Oil

It is a good idea to check the engine oil level at each fuel fill.
In order to get an accurate reading, the vehicle must be on level ground. The engine oil dipstick handle is a yellow loop. See Engine
Compartment Overview on page 10-6 for the location of the engine oil dipstick.

1. If the engine has been running recently, turn off the engine and allow several minutes for the oil to drain back into the oil pan. Checking the oil level too soon after engine shutoff will not provide an accurate oil level reading. .

928S
06-19-13, 03:14 AM
...I also read somewhere that when the engine is hot, you shouldnt be checking for oil level because it could show a deficit, well when the mechanic took it for a test drive and came back he notice the oil was low. so my questions is, is it really low or because the engine is holding up the oil...sorry I'm not a mechanic, wish I understand what he was talking about.

Here's an excerpt from GM "Oil Consumption Guidelines," bulletin #01-06-01-011F:

"NOT WAITING LONG ENOUGH AFTER RUNNING ENGINE TO CHECK OIL LEVEL
Some engines require more time than others for the oil to drain back into the crankcase. To assure a sufficient amount of oil has drained back to the crankcase, and an accurate reading can be obtained, the vehicle should be allowed to sit for at least 15 minutes, after the engine has been shut off, before taking an oil level reading..."

rchern
06-19-13, 05:24 AM
Wouldn't it be better to just check the oil when the engines cold?

Sal33n
06-19-13, 09:14 AM
I don't think the topic of discussion here is when to check the oil. I would be more worried about the leaks. What did the person who is selling the car say when you informed them of what the mechanic found?

tinman
06-19-13, 09:14 AM
Back to the OP, if it's leaking I wouldn't buy it.

928S
06-19-13, 09:31 AM
Wouldn't it be better to just check the oil when the engines cold?

GM Oil Consumption Guidelines, bulletin referenced above, says, "...verify that the engine is at normal operating temperature...park the vehicle on a level surface...wait at least 15 minutes..."

2008 CTS Owner's Manual says, "in order to get an accurate reading, the oil must be warm and the vehicle must be on level ground."

law87
06-19-13, 09:48 AM
I don't think the topic of discussion here is when to check the oil. I would be more worried about the leaks. What did the person who is selling the car say when you informed them of what the mechanic found?

he dint say anything, he seem suprised too, he is a second owner.

on other note my bank (penfed) has route 66 extended warranty option, I opt for it when signing up for the loan. I just hope that it cover under their warranty

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Back to the OP, if it's leaking I wouldn't buy it.

doesnt cars with mileage do that? I'm not trying to come off as a smart ass just trying to understand this more.

tinman
06-19-13, 09:59 AM
I have never had a car with a rear engine main seal leak. I have driven some of my cars 200,000 miles. Just my opinion, I personally wouldn't buy it because it isn't going to get any better, and it won't be a quick, easy, cheap fix.

law87
06-19-13, 10:13 AM
I have never had a car with a rear engine main seal leak. I have driven some of my cars 200,000 miles. Just my opinion, I personally wouldn't buy it because it isn't going to get any better, and it won't be a quick, easy, cheap fix.

I'm not a mechanic but do you think it could be anything else that cause that leak? to clarify when i say leak its not like oil dripping to the floor, it just when the mechanic bring it up to the lift, swipe his finger from the bottom, there is some oil residue. My thought that its normal all cars with mileage do this. My 02 rsx burn oil and I thought its normal for its age (155k) and if I lift up a car (confirmed by mechanic), i would assume to find the same problem, again I'm not a mechanic, damn I wish i would taken some pictures.

dsteinmann
06-19-13, 10:25 AM
THat should be covered under the 5yr 100,000 mile if its still under warranty

tinman
06-19-13, 10:30 AM
5 years may have passed on this one.

law87
06-19-13, 10:33 AM
5 years may have passed on this one.

my bank offer route 66 extended warranty I did take that offer, however I heard stories regarding 3rd party warranties

gohawks63
06-19-13, 10:58 AM
I don't think the topic of discussion here is when to check the oil. I would be more worried about the leaks. What did the person who is selling the car say when you informed them of what the mechanic found?

That's exactly what I was thinking. I would be steering clear of that car.

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doesnt cars with mileage do that? I'm not trying to come off as a smart ass just trying to understand this more.

I have owned three Acuras that went a 100K miles and a Toyota Landcruiser with 160K miles on it when they were traded in and none of them had leaks.

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I'm not a mechanic but do you think it could be anything else that cause that leak? to clarify when i say leak its not like oil dripping to the floor, it just when the mechanic bring it up to the lift, swipe his finger from the bottom, there is some oil residue. My thought that its normal all cars with mileage do this. My 02 rsx burn oil and I thought its normal for its age (155k) and if I lift up a car (confirmed by mechanic), i would assume to find the same problem, again I'm not a mechanic, damn I wish i would taken some pictures.

A leak is a leak. In your case it's a small one that isn't dripping ...... Yet.

No pictures are necessary.

It could stay that way or it could get worse. Either way it will be expensive to fix.

928S
06-19-13, 11:03 AM
my bank offer route 66 extended warranty I did take that offer, however I heard stories regarding 3rd party warranties

FWIW, according to the Better Business Bureau (BBB), Auto Services Co., a.k.a. Route 66 Extended Warranties (http://www.bbb.org/arkansas/business-reviews/auto-warranty-processing-service/auto-services-company-in-mountain-home-ar-16648), of Mountain Home, Arkansas, a BBB-accredited business since 1987, has earned an A+ (highest) rating.

C "T" ess
06-19-13, 12:33 PM
To the OP, on this forum you can't ask for help and then challenge every opinion you get. Yes the car has to be at normal operating temp and wait ten minutes before checking the oil level. that's what the manual says, so yes we all have experience at that. It sounds like you may have already purchased the car and if so good luck. No extended warranty covers fluid leaks and if you have a leak now they are just going to continue to get worse. If you haven't bought this car, walk away, there are too many good cars out there that do not have all of these problems.

ROC OUT
06-19-13, 04:02 PM
To the OP, on this forum you can't ask for help and then challenge every opinion you get. Yes the car has to be at normal operating temp and wait ten minutes before checking the oil level. that's what the manual says, so yes we all have experience at that. It sounds like you may have already purchased the car and if so good luck. No extended warranty covers fluid leaks and if you have a leak now they are just going to continue to get worse. If you haven't bought this car, walk away, there are too many good cars out there that do not have all of these problems.

I agree with the above quote 100%.

If you haven't already purchased this car, run don't walk away from this deal. Automotive fluids should generally stay inside the area in which they are housed unless something is worn, not seated properly, etc.

Sal33n
06-19-13, 06:06 PM
I know how you can fall in love with something and try to dismiss the faults. You want this car so bad and are hoping the leaks are not a big deal. If you are dead set on getting this car, I would take out out again but to an actual Cadillac dealer and have them look at it and get there professional opinion and get a quote on the cost of repair. Take that quote to the seller and negotiate for lower price or have him get the car fixed then sell at asking price. This is not like an oil pan leak or valve cover leak. A leak you described means a lot of labor involved which can be costly.

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Actually, just fall out of love with this car and find at least a 2009 model. Chances are once you get this car and find out you don't have blue-tooth then you will be all over the forums for months trying to figure out how to get your blue tooth phone working! lol (I am being serious :)

jeffc83
06-19-13, 07:06 PM
I know how you can fall in love with something and try to dismiss the faults. You want this car so bad and are hoping the leaks are not a big deal. If you are dead set on getting this car, I would take out out again but to an actual Cadillac dealer and have them look at it and get there professional opinion and get a quote on the cost of repair. Take that quote to the seller and negotiate for lower price or have him get the car fixed then sell at asking price. This is not like an oil pan leak or valve cover leak. A leak you described means a lot of labor involved which can be costly.

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Actually, just fall out of love with this car and find at least a 2009 model. Chances are once you get this car and find out you don't have blue-tooth then you will be all over the forums for months trying to figure out how to get your blue tooth phone working! lol (I am being serious :)

100% agreed! I made the mistake by falling in love with my 08 and went nuts until I got the Bluetooth working by installing a newer VCIM.

You'll find another one, trust me! (I'm looking at the newer ones myself)

law87
06-19-13, 09:13 PM
100% agreed! I made the mistake by falling in love with my 08 and went nuts until I got the Bluetooth working by installing a newer VCIM.

You'll find another one, trust me! (I'm looking at the newer ones myself)

man this suck :( hate walking away from a good deal.

gohawks63
06-19-13, 09:17 PM
man this suck :( hate walking away from a good deal.

There is a reason why it's a good deal. If you can get them to drop the price a $2k or $3K to make the repairs, it may be a better deal.

law87
06-19-13, 09:23 PM
There is a reason why it's a good deal. If you can get them to drop the price a $2k or $3K to make the repairs, it may be a better deal.

well he was asking 18k but i talked him down to 16k because of the leak, just talked to him again on the phone, he agreed to take it to cadillac dealership and have them inspect the engine seal and rear diff seal so hopefully its not anything major.

gohawks63
06-19-13, 09:40 PM
well he was asking 18k but i talked him down to 16k because of the leak, just talked to him again on the phone, he agreed to take it to cadillac dealership and have them inspect the engine seal and rear diff seal so hopefully its not anything major.

I don't mean to sound rude, but I am not sure what you're not understanding. The rear diff leak may not be as big of a deal, but the rear main seal is a big deal. The parts aren't much, but the labor is large. If it is in fact leaking then to do the job right will be a big deal.

jeffc83
06-19-13, 10:30 PM
gohawks63 is absolutely correct.

Walk away and find another one. I'll do the searching if you'd like. I'll just need a zip code, what your ABSOLUTE max price is and how far you're willing to drive to get one!

law87
06-19-13, 10:39 PM
I don't mean to sound rude, but I am not sure what you're not understanding. The rear diff leak may not be as big of a deal, but the rear main seal is a big deal. The parts aren't much, but the labor is large. If it is in fact leaking then to do the job right will be a big deal.

I understand but I wont be able to talk him down if it not coming from a dealership inspector...

plus that route 66 extended warranty should cover my back. if anything I can bargain with him and if the car actually break down I can use my warranty. that is why i also ask if anyone have route 66 extended warranty.

gohawks63
06-19-13, 10:51 PM
I understand but I wont be able to talk him down if it not coming from a dealership inspector...

plus that route 66 extended warranty should cover my back. if anything I can bargain with him and if the car actually break down I can use my warranty. that is why i also ask if anyone have route 66 extended warranty.

Make sure that the warranty covers leaks. Some aftermarket warranties do not cover leaks.

law87
06-19-13, 11:15 PM
Make sure that the warranty covers leaks. Some aftermarket warranties do not cover leaks.

I am, thanks for the concern :)

so i just talk to a Cadillac service rep, she say the leak is not really consider a leak, its more like seapping by GM standard, she say its common problem...am I making this way worse than it should or is she making this way lighter then it should lol, of course she havent seen the car yet, but from my description she say that's what it sounds like.

snafu
06-19-13, 11:30 PM
Make sure that the warranty covers leaks. Some aftermarket warranties do not cover leaks.

I would be surprised if the aftermarket warranty would cover a pre-existing condition, kinda like buying auto insurance after the accident???:hmm:

gohawks63
06-19-13, 11:32 PM
I am, thanks for the concern :)

so i just talk to a Cadillac service rep, she say the leak is not really consider a leak, its more like seapping by GM standard, she say its common problem...am I making this way worse than it should or is she making this way lighter then it should lol, of course she havent seen the car yet, but from my description she say that's what it sounds like.

Whether it's seepage or it's full blown stream, a leak is a leak.

tinman
06-20-13, 08:59 AM
I guess it boils down to the fact that most of the folks here say to walk away from this problem child. Obviously if you really want it then it is all yours, warts and all, but the overwhelming response is to get the hell away.

ajazolino
06-20-13, 09:35 AM
Run. Run far far away.

law87
06-20-13, 09:45 AM
It's weird that I am getting a different response from the user on here and the Cadillac service reps say something different. I called 3-4 different Cadillac service rep and they say this is common "the oil should not be leaking to the floor, but dampening or seeping is common among Cadillac cars" exact line more or less from 3-4 rep, 1 from Hawaii (call late last night from east coast), 2-3 from east coast this morning. Anyone wanna do me a big favor and check their ride? would be extremely appreciative.

I recognized when someone tell me to walk away, but I would like to also know I done my best to not let a good deal walk by, make me sleep better at night. That being said I truly do value you guys input, it does help me step back and take a look, I hold off the buy till Saturday, thanks all.

tinman
06-20-13, 09:53 AM
Which engine is this, 3.0 or 3.6? DI?

law87
06-20-13, 10:09 AM
Which engine is this, 3.0 or 3.6? DI?

its a 3.6 non DI AWD

tinman
06-20-13, 10:10 AM
I'm not sure how different the non-DI is vs. the DI.

Can someone pipe up on this?

Also, if the two engines are quite similar in design, the Camaro forum might be of use.

gohawks63
06-20-13, 10:21 AM
It's weird that I am getting a different response from the user on here and the Cadillac service reps say something different. I called 3-4 different Cadillac service rep and they say this is common "the oil should not be leaking to the floor, but dampening or seeping is common among Cadillac cars" exact line more or less from 3-4 rep, 1 from Hawaii (call late last night from east coast), 2-3 from east coast this morning. Anyone wanna do me a big favor and check their ride? would be extremely appreciative.

I recognized when someone tell me to walk away, but I would like to also know I done my best to not let a good deal walk by, make me sleep better at night. That being said I truly do value you guys input, it does help me step back and take a look, I hold off the buy till Saturday, thanks all.


Let's put it this way, my 2012 went in for an oil change and they noticed a little leak near the front engine cover. They got it fixed under warranty. If it was "normal" they should have left it alone... No?

True, a little seepage isn't a big deal, but you aren't buying a beater. You're still spending $16K and if that leak gets worse it won't be cheap.

Sal33n
06-20-13, 10:29 AM
16K? I got my 09 for 16K 4 months ago from a dealer with remaining CPO warranty.

law87
06-20-13, 10:33 AM
16K? I got my 09 for 16K 4 months ago from a dealer with remaining CPO warranty.

with how many miles? man that is a good deal, this one is pretty loaded, I have to have that Panoramic roof its just a have to thing for the car or else its a deal breaker for me.

Sal33n
06-20-13, 10:35 AM
Well the seller seems to be on the up and up by willing to take it to Cadillac and have them check it out. If it's all good then go for it. What I would do though is find out how much it will cost to get fixed if it does get worse in the future. At least that way you would be prepared someday down the road.

law87
06-20-13, 10:37 AM
Let's put it this way, my 2012 went in for an oil change and they noticed a little leak near the front engine cover. They got it fixed under warranty. If it was "normal" they should have left it alone... No?

True, a little seepage isn't a big deal, but you aren't buying a beater. You're still spending $16K and if that leak gets worse it won't be cheap.

well the thing is, it wasn't brought up to my attention but my friend say all old car does it, even my 155k acura, he say all car leak a little bit as it age. I never ever replace any kind of seal on my acura, it does burn oil every 4k miles (about 1 quartz)

If the caddi can last another 100k miles I consider that a well worth car, I own the acura for 8 years and only put in 105k, travel 2000 miles across country 3-4 times and it was great, its just getting too old and the ride is very uncomfortable for my age, I'm 26 and yes I consider myself old :( lol as long as my insurance say so.

Sal33n
06-20-13, 11:11 AM
It had 90k miles on it which you may think is high but the CPO warranty totally was worth it. A few weeks after I got it the interior lights would not turn off if you open the driver door. Took in in under warranty which they replaced the electronic lock assembly and fixed it. While there they also noticed a leak from the front engine cover which I did not know about because there was no dripping just as you describe. Upon teardown to fix it they also replaced the timing chains, replaced the water pump and replaced the camshaft thrust washers because endplay was a little out of spec. Now mind you the car was driving like an absolute dream and I had no idea about the leaks or timing chains loose. The cost to me was $0. I have no idea how much it would have cost me if I didn't have the CPO warranty. My car still looks brand new and even still smells new inside. It drives like a brand new car even with the miles. Steering is tight and straight. And yes it also has the panoramic roof :)

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By the way, CPO stands for Certified Pre-Owned.

tinman
06-20-13, 11:15 AM
You would have had a few thousand dollars in your repairs, Sal33n.

law87
06-20-13, 11:17 AM
It had 90k miles on it which you may think is high but the CPO warranty totally was worth it. A few weeks after I got it the interior lights would not turn off if you open the driver door. Took in in under warranty which they replaced the electronic lock assembly and fixed it. While there they also noticed a leak from the front engine cover which I did not know about because there was no dripping just as you describe. Upon teardown to fix it they also replaced the timing chains, replaced the water pump and replaced the camshaft thrust washers because endplay was a little out of spec. Now mind you the car was driving like an absolute dream and I had no idea about the leaks or timing chains loose. The cost to me was $0. I have no idea how much it would have cost me if I didn't have the CPO warranty. My car still looks brand new and even still smells new inside. It drives like a brand new car even with the miles. Steering is tight and straight. And yes it also has the panoramic roof :)
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By the way, CPO stands for Certified Pre-Owned.

there is no way I can find a deal like that in Baltimore. I do have route 66 signed up which kind of put my mind at ease, its going to give me factory warranty till 100k then from there on they only worry about power train to 120k I believe. 1900 for the warranty, pretty good reviews on the net so far and its recommended by a the bank that loan me the money for the car.

Sal33n
06-20-13, 11:32 AM
You would have had a few thousand dollars in your repairs, Sal33n.

Yikes!!

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there is no way I can find a deal like that in Baltimore. I do have route 66 signed up which kind of put my mind at ease, its going to give me factory warranty till 100k then from there on they only worry about power train to 120k I believe. 1900 for the warranty, pretty good reviews on the net so far and its recommended by a the bank that loan me the money for the car.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=21217&endYear=2014&modelCode1=CTS&showcaseOwnerId=45503798&startYear=2008&makeCode1=CAD&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=75&maxPrice=17000&mmt=%5BCAD%5BCTS%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=346910874&listingIndex=3&Log=0

law87
06-20-13, 11:39 AM
Yikes!!

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http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=21217&endYear=2014&modelCode1=CTS&showcaseOwnerId=45503798&startYear=2008&makeCode1=CAD&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&sellerTypes=b&searchRadius=75&maxPrice=17000&mmt=%5BCAD%5BCTS%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=346910874&listingIndex=3&Log=0


2 hours away, I live alone lol Towing my old car back to my home probaly cost a grand hahah.

Sal33n
06-20-13, 11:44 AM
Do you have a pic of the car you want to buy? Also is it AWD or RWD?

law87
06-20-13, 11:46 AM
Do you have a pic of the car you want to buy? Also is it AWD or RWD?

I dont, its AWD. doesnt really matter I dont expect Caddi AWD to be functional like a Subaru. Not a deal breaker to me.

Cadillac Cust Svc
06-20-13, 01:08 PM
It had 90k miles on it which you may think is high but the CPO warranty totally was worth it. A few weeks after I got it the interior lights would not turn off if you open the driver door. Took in in under warranty which they replaced the electronic lock assembly and fixed it. While there they also noticed a leak from the front engine cover which I did not know about because there was no dripping just as you describe. Upon teardown to fix it they also replaced the timing chains, replaced the water pump and replaced the camshaft thrust washers because endplay was a little out of spec. Now mind you the car was driving like an absolute dream and I had no idea about the leaks or timing chains loose. The cost to me was $0. I have no idea how much it would have cost me if I didn't have the CPO warranty. My car still looks brand new and even still smells new inside. It drives like a brand new car even with the miles. Steering is tight and straight. And yes it also has the panoramic roof :)

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By the way, CPO stands for Certified Pre-Owned.

Hello Sal33n,

I am happy to hear about your situation. Glad to know repairs were done by the dealership to fix these concerns and you were covered through the CPO warranty. I bet you were happy about that! Continue to enjoy your Cadillac :)

Laura M.
Cadillac Customer Service

C "T" ess
06-20-13, 01:54 PM
Whether it's it's a weep or a leak, it will manifest itself into a larger problem. I know off no extended warranty the will pay for new seals, they are considered maintenance. Keep in mind that a rear main seal means the engine has to come out. It sounds like you are dead set on this car, so at this point nothing anybody on the forum says will change your mind.You asked for advice and every response has been the same; walk away from the car We have all been CTS owners, I'm on my fourth. Buy the the car and good luck. Whatever you save put it in the bank, you'll need it.

law87
06-20-13, 11:38 PM
does anyone know if the rear seat fold back on the 1SA model?

law87
06-22-13, 11:49 AM
Took a test drive again, there was noise coming from the panoramic roof (wind noise) unacceptable. among other things but thank you all for your help, and the search continues.

jeffc83
06-22-13, 12:03 PM
You'll find one. Glad your staying away from the first...

C "T" ess
06-22-13, 12:27 PM
Even if you have to travel two hours, you may have a friend that can drive you in exchange for a couple of beers (after the trip of course)

jeffc83
06-22-13, 01:03 PM
Even if you have to travel two hours, you may have a friend that can drive you in exchange for a couple of beers (after the trip of course)

and after the sale...lol. That's more like a 6 pack too;)

law87
06-24-13, 12:11 AM
does anyone know if you can pay extra to extend the CPO warranty?

C "T" ess
06-25-13, 10:05 AM
you can purchase an extended warranty from GM; GMPP or after market provider. Route 66 is the one most often mentioned but I know nothing about them.

JCBCTS
06-28-13, 05:15 PM
Not sure where you are in the search but I have an 08...no seepage but the car burns a quart and a half between oil changes (about 7000 miles) VERY COMMON WITH THE V-6. Oil level a little low does not mean there is anything wrong...just depends if the owner has topped it off lately.