: CTS-V Manual Transmission vs Automatic



Toronto_cadillac
06-18-13, 03:52 AM
I just picked up my new CTS-V manual transmission. I am now thinking I made a mistake with Getting the manual instead of automatic because I am now hearing the automatic is faster in the quarter mile. Can someone tell me if this is true. I thought the manual would be faster as it had no losses and its faster on the top end. I don't see any manuals in the 11's. did I make a mistake.

Jinx
06-18-13, 04:00 AM
Definitely should have bought a Camaro ZL1. ;)

Toronto_cadillac
06-18-13, 04:46 AM
Definitely should have bought a Camaro ZL1. ;)

But what about my question. Has anyone with a manual transmission gone faster than an automatic. And if the manual is 20 miles per hour faster in top end then why didn't GM use the manual in Germany to reclaim top spot against the M5. Am I missing something.

VMoose
06-18-13, 07:30 AM
Do you want higher top speed or better quarter miles times? Do you like shifting your own gears?

Mr. Hyde
06-18-13, 07:32 AM
The differance on the street where you will spend the majority of your time won't matter. The Auto may be easier to launch, but with time, you'll get nearly as quick. You made the right choice with the manual, so much more involving as a driver. Mine is a manual.

spearfish25
06-18-13, 09:25 AM
I think choosing a manual or automatic based on a couple of tenths of a second in the quarter mile is completely missing the boat.

Trapspeed
06-18-13, 09:31 AM
I just picked up my new CTS-V manual transmission. I am now thinking I made a mistake with Getting the manual instead of automatic because I am now hearing the automatic is faster in the quarter mile. Can someone tell me if this is true. I thought the manual would be faster as it had no losses and its faster on the top end. I don't see any manuals in the 11's. did I make a mistake.

If your intent was to drag the car then autos will always be more consistent than manuals....no matter who the driver. I think they were only off by a tenth to 60 anyway. Don't mistake "quicker" and "faster". They're different but you can easily race a manual and get good with it. There is always something cool about getting in a good run and "earning it" with the manual!

Chrispy
06-18-13, 09:43 AM
I just picked up my new CTS-V manual transmission. I am now thinking I made a mistake with Getting the manual instead of automatic because I am now hearing the automatic is faster in the quarter mile. Can someone tell me if this is true. I thought the manual would be faster as it had no losses and its faster on the top end. I don't see any manuals in the 11's. did I make a mistake.

I went 11.85 @ 120mph with drag radials and an Airaid as only mods. (1.86 sixty). Driver skill comes into play in a big way with the six speed manual. (Not to pat myself on the back but I've made a couple thousand passes in six speed manual GM cars over the last 20 years and have been called the "driver mod" for other peoples cars) :)

The big benefit to the manual is the feeling of connectedness you get with the car and the road. It transforms the feeling of the car especially the V.

Toronto_cadillac
06-18-13, 09:46 AM
Yes I agree with you. It's way more satisfying to earn it by changing gears yourself than just hitting the gas pedal. Having said that, you're also right that it will take lots of practice to learn how to shift those gears shall not lose any time. Bottom line is a dual clutch transmission that the German cars have, are the best transmissions you can get for pure performance. It's too bad that these cars didn't come with the dual clutch as you had the best of both worlds with the DCT.

Any tech guys on here know if GM used the manual transmission in Neubring wouldn't that have made better times considering that the top speed goes up by 20 mph.

tcockerVille
06-18-13, 09:48 AM
Chris, I was going to ask what mods you had done to your wagon, I watched a few of your passes last time down the track.....I would also agree that with factory cars the manual would be quicker quarter mile, however driving is involved

sykb47l
06-18-13, 09:49 AM
I think choosing a manual or automatic based on a couple of tenths of a second in the quarter mile is completely missing the boat.

I agree.

If you are that into drag racing you should know what works. If its bragging rights your after, you'll never be the fastest no matter what you drive.

garfin
06-18-13, 10:15 AM
Yes I agree with you. It's way more satisfying to earn it by changing gears yourself than just hitting the gas pedal. Having said that, you're also right that it will take lots of practice to learn how to shift those gears shall not lose any time. Bottom line is a dual clutch transmission that the German cars have, are the best transmissions you can get for pure performance. It's too bad that these cars didn't come with the dual clutch as you had the best of both worlds with the DCT.

Any tech guys on here know if GM used the manual transmission in Neubring wouldn't that have made better times considering that the top speed goes up by 20 mph.

First off, congrats on the car! There seems to be a good number of us in the GTA who are driving Vs!
I definitely agree with Chris on this one. I also think you made the right decision to go with the manual - you won't have any regrets, especially if enjoy the rewards of rowing your own gears. I have a manual and I wouldn't trade it for the world to go an extra tick or 2 quicker in the 1/4.
You mention about learning how to shift without losing time... are you tuned into the "no-lift shift" feature the manual Vs have? Now that is a lot of fun to play with!
John Heinricy drove the auto (as opposed to the manual) around the 'Ring simply because he was more familiar with the auto and didn't have the time to learn the course in a manual car before making the official timed runs. Even an expert with a manual transmission needs to practice on a road course for a while in order to achieve the best times. He had lots of seat time in the auto, but not so much in the manual car and felt he would achieve a faster time in the car he was more familiar with. I believe that somewhere out there, there is a video of him being interviewed saying that he would have liked to have tried it with the manual car...
Enjoy the car and drive safe!!

Best regards,

Elie

thebigjimsho
06-18-13, 10:19 AM
Glad you typed all that out and not me, Elie.

Also, the auto's 175 top speed doesn't get reached on the Nordschleife anyway...

Chrispy
06-18-13, 10:29 AM
Here's an example of no lift shift in action.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ-Ab5F5O9E&feature=player_embedded

Toronto_cadillac
06-18-13, 10:57 AM
First off, congrats on the car! There seems to be a good number of us in the GTA who are driving Vs!
I definitely agree with Chris on this one. I also think you made the right decision to go with the manual - you won't have any regrets, especially if enjoy the rewards of rowing your own gears. I have a manual and I wouldn't trade it for the world to go an extra tick or 2 quicker in the 1/4.
You mention about learning how to shift without losing time... are you tuned into the "no-lift shift" feature the manual Vs have? Now that is a lot of fun to play with!
John Heinricy drove the auto (as opposed to the manual) around the 'Ring simply because he was more familiar with the auto and didn't have the time to learn the course in a manual car before making the official timed runs. Even an expert with a manual transmission needs to practice on a road course for a while in order to achieve the best times. He had lots of seat time in the auto, but not so much in the manual car and felt he would achieve a faster time in the car he was more familiar with. I believe that somewhere out there, there is a video of him being interviewed saying that he would have liked to have tried it with the manual car...
Enjoy the car and drive safe!!

Best regards,

Elie

I Would very much appreciate you guys letting me know what is the no lift feature on the CTS V. How do I learn it

Chrispy
06-18-13, 11:42 AM
I Would very much appreciate you guys letting me know what is the no lift feature on the CTS V. How do I learn it

When you are at the track put the car in Competition mode or completely turn off stabilitrak. Launch the car and keep the accelerator to the floor while you shift. It allows boost to be maintained between shifts and therefore more power under the curve.

Cheers,
Chris

Toronto_cadillac
06-18-13, 11:48 AM
When you are at the track put the car in Competition mode or completely turn off stabilitrak. Launch the car and keep the accelerator to the floor while you shift. It allows boost to be maintained between shifts and therefore more power under the curve.

Cheers,
Chris

I assume you need to jam the shift change and do it fast or you will have a busted gear.

marcusp23
06-18-13, 11:51 AM
I think choosing a manual or automatic based on a couple of tenths of a second in the quarter mile is completely missing the boat.

Agree. The one thing I would change about my V is that I wish I had bought one with a manual transmission. Next time

Chrispy
06-18-13, 11:52 AM
I assume you need to jam the shift change and do it fast or you will have a busted gear.

See my vid that's posted. You clutch and shift as fast as possible as close to factory redline as you can without hitting to get the best ET/mph.

Jinx
06-18-13, 11:54 AM
What color is your CTS-V? Sedan, Coupe, or Wagon? What color interior? What finish wheels? Did you get the Recaro seats?
We want pics. Share the joy of your new ride.

baabootoo
06-18-13, 11:59 AM
It's like buying a Harley. If you want the "experience and feel", get a stick shift. I think that you are looking at this from the wrong angle.

garfin
06-18-13, 08:32 PM
See my vid that's posted. You clutch and shift as fast as possible as close to factory redline as you can without hitting to get the best ET/mph.

Don't listen to a word Chris says... in that video it sure looks/sounds like he's driving an automatic! :bows:

Running fast & ducking low,

Elie

P.S. Great no-lift shift demo!

timg
06-18-13, 08:43 PM
If you want a consistently fast car for the dragstrip, you made a mistake. Regardless of make and model, autos almost always make better dragstrip cars. I went 6MT knowing that I would probably never beat the times I could have had at the dragstrip with an auto, but being okay with it. IMO, something about a high performance manual car makes it feel more special and I hardly ever make it to a dragstrip. Most of my time is spent on winding back roads where the manual shines.

I confirmed my decision when the new XTS loaner car I drove (in auto and manual mode) shifted better than the automatic CTS-V I test drove. I know a tune would fix it, but you shouldn't have to tune your high performance car to make it shift as well as Grandpa's Cadillac...

Tim

Trainman SRT-10
06-19-13, 06:10 AM
Here is a video of no-lift shifting inside my SRT-10 Ram, first the burnout in 2nd gear, then the 1/4 mile run, watch the tach, factory redline is 6050, I shift at 6,000, don't let off the gas. I haven't made a video inside my 2012 CTS V coupe yet, but if I do I will post it. The button I am holding down during the burnout is my Hurst LinLoc. Truck is NA and has run a best of 11.63 @118 with slicks and lightweight tricks, engine is still pure stock internally. My CTS V Coupe has an Airaid and a tune, and I have run12.24 @ 118.91 (2.05 60') on street tires ( only twice to the strip so far). drag radials will be the next mod.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=9cb546c732056cbb8370ab98e8f3da31&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vtcoa.com%2Fforums%2Ff11%2Ffa moso-raceway-feb-9-2013-videos-55662%2Findex2.html&v=1&libId=2e151101-3cf9-4735-b4c7-b18389293f43&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZxe MhlfiTPg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vtcoa.com%2Fforums%2Ff11%2Ffa moso-raceway-feb-9-2013-videos-55662%2F&title=Famoso%20Raceway%20Feb%209%202013%20Videos%2 0-%20Page%202%20-%20Dodge%20Ram%20SRT-10%20Forum%20-%20Viper%20Truck%20Club%20of%20America&txt=You%20Tube&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_137163272215312

Chrispy
06-19-13, 01:00 PM
Chris, I was going to ask what mods you had done to your wagon, I watched a few of your passes last time down the track.....I would also agree that with factory cars the manual would be quicker quarter mile, however driving is involved

Received your PM...tried to reply but your PM inbox is full. :)

----------


Don't listen to a word Chris says... in that video it sure looks/sounds like he's driving an automatic! :bows:

Running fast & ducking low,

Elie

P.S. Great no-lift shift demo!

Thanks Elie :)

tcockerVille
06-19-13, 03:07 PM
Chris,

Try now!

Chrispy
06-20-13, 10:54 AM
If you want a consistently fast car for the dragstrip, you made a mistake. Regardless of make and model, autos almost always make better dragstrip cars. I went 6MT knowing that I would probably never beat the times I could have had at the dragstrip with an auto, but being okay with it.

You can be pretty consistent with the six speed with practice. (If you are bracket racing for example)

I usually vary 3-4 hundreths of a second across multiple runs. At TMP last year I ran four 12.0s at 120mph. (12.05, 12.06, 12.04, 12.07)

timg
06-20-13, 11:02 PM
You can be pretty consistent with the six speed with practice. (If you are bracket racing for example)

I usually vary 3-4 hundreths of a second across multiple runs. At TMP last year I ran four 12.0s at 120mph. (12.05, 12.06, 12.04, 12.07)

That's ridiculous in an awesome way. I probably couldn't even do that with an auto. Perhaps I need a driver mod...

Tim

Jinx
06-21-13, 12:48 AM
I'm really impressed that it's been almost three full days and this hasn't turned hostile. On some forums the auto/manual question is a grenade, guaranteed to devolve into disparaging comments or a holy war.

The OP must be so disappointed ;)

Chrispy
06-21-13, 10:25 AM
That's ridiculous in an awesome way. I probably couldn't even do that with an auto. Perhaps I need a driver mod...

Tim

Thanks :) If you install a 2 step you can be ridiculously accurate on the RT and launch as well. You can dial it up or down along with tire pressures etc depending on track prep.

V Wagon
06-22-13, 01:07 AM
I got so much wheel spin on the 2-3 shift no lift shifting at Memphis during power tour that traction control turned back on and knocked the car on its face on the 3-4 shift. To get a good time with any trans you need a good track and weather and with autos out numbering manuals nearly 9 to 1 it really is no wonder there aren't many stock manual times listed here, let alone ones as good as the auto times.