: Is is just me?



Rolex
02-05-05, 11:21 PM
http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/anim_soapbox.gifMaybe its me, but I've noticed quite a few threads and posts by new people who come to CadillacForums just to BASH GM and Cadillac? I find this behavior very odd indeed. When you search through these people's posts all you find is "my Cadillac was a lemon, or Cadillac makes junk for cars, or I'm leaving Cadillac for Audi, etc." Am I the only person who believes such people are just trollshttp://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_troll.gif?

When I bought my Cadillac I came here to join up and learn more about the brand, blah blah. If you believe these people, they've owned their Cadillacs for months or years (and never come to the forums), they only come to the forums to piss and moan after their vehicle fell completely apart. You never hear a positive word from these people, and more often than not after their finished flogging Cadillac you never see or hear from them again. I don't understand these people...:cookoo: . What's worse are the threads from people who buy a 10 year old (salvaged) Cadillac with a fresh coat of paint from Buba's Quality Used Cars, and when the thing breaks down they show up here to badmouth Cadillac for producing junk cars. :mad:

Anyway thanks for allowing me to vent. *stepping down and placing the soapbox back in the closet* I feel much better. :D

Ralph
02-05-05, 11:26 PM
You're not alone and it's bothering me too! I spent the better half of the day defending the good name of Cadillac!


Here is one of my posts from earlier today:


"They certainly did!! There is a BMW 7 series in my family and it is constantly breaking down with a lot of suspension trouble. Cadillac did the right thing here despite how much more people think GM should have done. If we cannot at least compare to the Germans, how the hell is Cadillac supposed to keep their edge.

GM cannot please EVERYONE, so you built the best car you can, ergonomically, quality, option wise and hope the masses approve. Obviously, as evidenced here, not everyone will approve. That's their problem and they can spend their money elsewhere. I also believe that if a few people have had a bad example, they should not drag the entire brand name through the mud.

Many people come on this forum and complain of trouble with a 5 or 7 year old Cadillac. Boo Hoo for them. Perhaps they should have realized with a used car they are taking a chance and it might not have been maintained properly to begin with. I am sick and tired of hearing the Cadillac name being referenced to negatively due to instances like these.

This is just an example that people unrealistically expect "perfection" EVEN WITH A USED CAR!!!!!"
__________________

majax
02-05-05, 11:32 PM
:histeric: yeah Ralph you were getting pretty pasionate.:thumbsup:

Let me know if anything gets realy out of hand. When some stuff comes up though we get all riled up and I assume you guys like the arguments(I think they are fun). But if you dont...maybe I can start PM'n these people.

They just post because no one else will listen to them acting like idiots.

Playdrv4me
02-06-05, 01:48 AM
I enjoy it, this is by far the most "fair and balanced" automotive forum on the internet. The reason I stay here is because I know the guys here are true gearheads who for the most part, are not blinded by loyalties to one brand or company. Its a great group of people, and moreover, I love Cadillacs... I just wanna see them be the best they can be. I am pretty relentless, but I am that way about all cars, for the short time I was on the Lexus forum (got kinda bored over there), I was just as critical about some of the things they were babbling about as I am some of the Cadillac stuff.

Ralph
02-06-05, 02:09 AM
blinded by loyalties to one brand

Ahhh, figured me out did you? ;)

I can admit Lexus makes a good car, after all I swear by JD P. and Lexus is number one!! It's just that I am sick and tired of people (trolls, probably from the Lexus forum :p ) coming here and claiming imports NEVER EVER break down, have NO recally, or problems of ANY kind!

Of course in the real world, we know better. :)

Playdrv4me
02-06-05, 02:32 AM
No I agree Ralph, and no I dont consider you one of the blinded ones, you quite frankly have just had an awesome experience with you and Dad's Cadillac's, and honestly, thats the way it SHOULD be. What bugs me a little bit, is that whenever someone complains about their Cadillac, and its a genuine concern about the car or the service (not the 10 year old Buba's Used Cars stories) without them even mentioning another brand, we rush to use the "Mercedes has problems too" type of defense. People see right through that, to someone who has spent 70k of their hard earned dollars on what might very well be the nicest car theyve ever owned "Mercedes does it too" is not what they want to hear. They want to hear logical solutions to their problem that frankly are not always possible, but to tell them that other brands are "just as bad" does not buy US the Cadillac promoters any credibility. Cadillac needs to be able to be defended on its OWN merit, without resulting to using other manufacturers problems as a crutch to lift Cadillac. When we are able to do that, THEN we will KNOW Cadillac is the true standard of the world.

I saw the movie "Assasination of Richard Nixon" last night, and it was set in circa 1975. They showed a couple of Caddy commercials (for the Eldorado Convertible with the announcer saying something glorious to the effect of "You chose a Cadillac Eldorado Convertible, the best..."), and the way they talked up the car and how majestic it all seemed was too cool. Those WERE the glory days of Cadillac, I want it to feel the same way again.

Rolex
02-06-05, 03:04 AM
Bottom line is: mechanical things break down from time to time. Some automakers seem to be more reliable than others. I am guilty of being a hater toward Dodge/Chrystler...based on my own bad experiences with their products. My bad experience doesn't inspire me to seek out Dodge/Chrystler forums and badmouth to people who love Dodge/Chrystler vehicles. I get VERY frustrated with these people who (supposedly) own a Cadillac for months/years and the only time they come to the forums is when they have a breakdown and they need to gripe about it.

Playdrv4me
02-06-05, 03:10 AM
Yea but dude, you know that at least Id say a good 40 percent of the people who come to Forums for ANY brand, come around when they have a GRIPE about something. Thats just the way it is. There are hundreds of thousands of satisfied Caddy drivers riding up and down the roads of our great country who havent the foggiest clue what Cadillac Forums even means, but I gurantee you that as soon as they get frustrated with a problem, or have a question about something they feel is broke they will meander their way onto this site. Unfortunately thats just the way it is. The important thing is to try and turn the situation around and into a positive, ONLY IF its merited and you can tell they are complaining overtly for nothing.

You and I are in the other majority that go to car forums because were happy with our vehicles at one point or another and want to get together with other owners of the same vehicles or what not. I just cant fault people for wanting to vent about problems.

danbuc
02-06-05, 04:22 AM
I had someone name "Duck Sausage" try to insult me on the Race and Kill forum. That f**kin' pissed me off big time. It's seems to be happening more often now, and it makes me even more angry when tey don't reply to what you've said. Nothing worse than telling some to "F**K Off!" and than not having the satisfaction, of seeing their response. I've noticed it more in the non specific forums, rather than those about different particular cars and such. A lot of it seems to be peolpe offering shady, and sometimes illegal information, or trying to sell a car. WTF is that about. I know there is no reason to get mad, but I'm still angy over what that a**hole Duck Sausage said to me. $10 says that guy belongs to a Mopar forum.......damn Chryslers. :mad:

In the end, there isn't much we can really do about it, other than live with these people's comments, and hope that they go away. If I ever find out what other forums that Duck Suasage guy belongs to, I'm sure gonna raise some hell, and that's a promise. Damnit I hate that guy. :want:

Katshot
02-06-05, 07:30 AM
Back when this forum started, I think it was much more "balanced". Over the years, I've noticed Cadillac owners changing too. Cadillac owners are NOT the same as they used to be. 20 years ago, you wouldn't have Cadillac owners like we see here, and 30-40 years ago it would've been even LESS likely. As soon as Cadillac decided to be a "volume" car company trying to have something for everyone, they marked the death of the breed. Now, we are left with a group of people little more mature, or intellectual than your average Mustang or Camaro group. Ain't success a great thing?

Ralph
02-06-05, 01:50 PM
we rush to use the "Mercedes has problems too" type of defense. People see right through that, to someone who has spent 70k of their hard earned dollars on what might very well be the nicest car theyve ever owned "Mercedes does it too" is not what they want to hear. They want to hear logical solutions to their problem that frankly are not always possible, but to tell them that other brands are "just as bad" does not buy US the Cadillac promoters any credibility. Cadillac needs to be able to be defended on its OWN merit, without resulting to using other manufacturers problems as a crutch to lift Cadillac. When we are able to do that, THEN we will KNOW Cadillac is the true standard of the world.


The problem with that Ian is often I'll hear "Well with imports like German cars, this type of thing DOESN'T happen!" I'm sorry, but that's when I have to break out the BIG GUNS because it is a myth! When I hear something like that I will use the Consumer Warning MB site because it is a powerful tool in dispelling such a damaging myth to Cadillac. How is Cadillac supposed to get along "on their own merit" when we got guys coming here just to bad mouth the brand and eventually if it's not proven wrong, people will start to believe it?! If someone doesn't stand up to the myths even when they have proof, then what's the point of ever comparing a MB to a Cadillac or a Lexus, etc. If people think they will NEVER have problems in an import, then guess again.

It's when I hear a thread called "Unbelievable!" or "Serious problem." You know what, these problems I read on this forum about Cadillac have NEVER involved an engine catching fire, or a transmission failing and putting the car into a violent spin and almost costing lives!!! To me THOSE are serious problems, and I read those on the Mercedes Consumer Warning site!! I have yet to read something like that on this forum! Hell, I could have even started a thread on something like that, but I haven't. I realize it's better to remain quiet and let people have their say, but sometimes they cross a line imo and it is not based on any logic, proof, only opinion that's false. I think people have come to a point where they expect perfection (and yes, there are 150,000 dollar MB's in Canada and they should also NOT have these types of problems, BUT THEY DO!) and people have also become a bit spoiled in some cases so they gripe about some pissy little problem here.

If I see a thread that states, "Does anyone else have this problem" or "what happened to my car, is this normal" that's fine, but when I hear threads like the above mentioned it pisses me off because it is an exaggeration of a minor problem that will be fixed under warrenty! If we have become that spoiled and whinny, then God help us because we are going to become a generation of ninnies! :mad:

If someone doesn't ever show them proof that is't not just Cadillac having some issues then they will believe it is JUST Cadillac having these issues! So yes, they need a healthy dose of reality and to know that NO CAR is going to be perfect, even a new Mercedes.

p.s. without comparison to the Germans or Japanese, how will Cadillac know when they've become "Standard of the World" again???

Every car magazine compares cars with others and it is obviously going to happen here.

Comparisons are just natural:

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30570

Ralph
02-06-05, 02:05 PM
Yea but dude, you know that at least Id say a good 40 percent of the people who come to Forums for ANY brand, come around when they have a GRIPE about something. Thats just the way it is.

Your probably right, and the problem is that it's really only the "negative" comments that get noticed more, much like in the media focussing on the bad things out there to grab a headline, etc. Remember a little while back, it got so bad in the STS forum that someone had to start a thread called something like "Post some positive comments on these cars." NO ONE was saying anything positive about Sevilles and I think the Sevile owners got fed up with all the negativity, I can't blame them.

I think a lot of people like to complain just for complaining's sake because it's fun to draw attention to themselves. Problem is, it can be catchy. ;) It can lead to ruining a companies reputation by "word of mouth." But that's an extreme.

Katshot
02-06-05, 02:18 PM
I hope you're exaggerating Ralph. I HOPE most don't think that import cars are flawless, and ONLY Cadillac has problems. I think the "probability" of technical and mechanical probelms are less in most of the imports that Cadillac is trying to compete with but that's why Cadillac is trying to compete with them. There's no point in trying to compete with cars that are your equal. My problem is that there's been more than enough instances where Cadillac has not only missed the boat but not apparently learned from their mistakes. I'm really not a fan of the "Art & Science" styling but I do admit that their cars have managed to stage a bit a of a come-back in recent years. IMO, the cars would be great if they would only bring out a new V8 engine and learn how to do a better interior.

danbuc
02-06-05, 02:20 PM
That Seville Forum did get way out of hand. If I'm not mistaken, the first or second reply to that "Let's here some positive stuff" thread was nothing but someone saying how much they loved all those problems they were having. There was no reason for this person to do that. Most people who replied to that thread (I'm gonna say everybody but that one person) had at least one positive thing to say about there car. This person should have been happy, just over the fact that they drive a cadillac. Sure it may have it's problems, but it's not an old BMW.

It's a shame that people have to come here, and bad mouth the brand, or only complain that their car sucks, and that they hate it alot. Well, these people either don't own a Cadillac, or shouldnt own a Cadillac. Either way, some of their comments really tend to get out of hand. In the end, there's not much we can do, except ignore them, and not reply if we can help it. Sometimes it is fun to tell someone off if they deserve it though. :sneaky:

Ralph
02-06-05, 02:25 PM
I hope you're exaggerating Ralph. I HOPE most don't think that import cars are flawless, and ONLY Cadillac has problems.

I've seen threads/coments on it and have had at least 4 people tell me directly that "if I buy a Honda I'll NEVER have problems!" (I won't name names) That's when I would take a stand! This is the kind of thing we deal with on this forum. I can respect anyone's opinion and let it go, but in a case like this.....

Ya know, the Arts and Scrince design kind of grew on me, and at first I hated the fact all the cars looked the same with that front end. I like the interior of the STS and the acres of wood, and I even prefer it to my Dad's DTS interior. If only the Deville was RWD!

When I had trouble with my radio and had to spend $355 to get it fixed TWICE (because they didn't do it properly) I would never dream of putting down the entire brand like I've seen lately! I know I posted on it but never insulted the brand. Even though the car had only 22,000 miles at the time it was an old car, and I knew it. I sucked it up, shelled out the money and got over it.

If Cadillac hasn't learned from their mistakes that's unfortunate indeed.

Here is an example:

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=244550#post244550

Katshot
02-06-05, 02:46 PM
Ralph,
"..acres of wood.." ?
On the STS?!
Take a look at the thread that I posted showing different interiors on some new cars, including the DTS. I think the DTS looks much nicer on the inside.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31056

Ralph
02-06-05, 02:57 PM
Ralph,
"..acres of wood.." ?
On the STS?!
Take a look at the thread that I posted showing different interiors on some new cars, including the DTS. I think the DTS looks much nicer on the inside.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31056

See that's just it, I think the STS has more wood than the DTS, but it shows up better with a lighter colored interior. I don't like black or charcoal grey interiors because it's like you can't see where the wood ends and the vinyl starts.

Now this is what I'm talkin' about:

Katshot
02-06-05, 03:08 PM
That color interior is much more pleasing to MY eye but I still think the wood grain on the STS LOOKS like an add-on kit which is just plain cheap on a car at this level. The wood grain around the center tower is way too big and the little strip across the dash on the right side just looks like an afterthought. If you hold your curser over the thumbnails, an info box will pop up telling you the file name of the picture. How did you like the Infiniti? I loved the seat shape. When you look at the other cars (with the possible exception of the VW), you have to notice the 3-dimensional look that the STS just doesn't have. The STS dash and console are just flat.

Ralph
02-06-05, 03:19 PM
That color interior is much more pleasing to MY eye but I still think the wood grain on the STS LOOKS like an add-on kit which is just plain cheap on a car at this level. The wood grain around the center tower is way too big and the little strip across the dash on the right side just looks like an afterthought. If you hold your curser over the thumbnails, an info box will pop up telling you the file name of the picture. How did you like the Infiniti? I loved the seat shape. When you look at the other cars (with the possible exception of the VW), you have to notice the 3-dimensional look that the STS just doesn't have. The STS dash and console are just flat.

OK, I commented on your thread.

Why Infinity would put nice beige creamy leather with dark cabin fever wood is beyond me.

Here is a shot of Dad's DTS (with less than 1,000 miles still! :shhh: ) and I can forgive the dark grey on the dash because of those beautiful Oatmeal-white leather seats! I would like an almost XLR-color wood. Eucalyptus ? I'll also post it on your car show thread.

danbuc
02-07-05, 01:29 AM
That site about the Mercedes and their problem was really interesting. The Mercedes Benz U.S headquarters building is a few minutes from my house. Maybe I should go over there, and kick some ass. For being such a "prestigious" brand, they don;t seem to have there act together. :hmm:

Katshot
02-07-05, 09:48 AM
Speaking of M/B, I posted some interior pics on the Philly Auto Show thread for you Ralph.