: Moon roof leaks



touchdown1999
06-14-13, 10:41 AM
i have a 2008 cadillac cts 3.6 di and my moonroof is leaking. i heard that it is a defect in the cts model. how do i resolve my issue? thanks, mike

Tbbt
06-14-13, 12:26 PM
There are MANY threads on this topic. Please don't start a new one. Search can be your friend if you use it.

billeee
06-14-13, 12:31 PM
Old Chinese proverb:

Never put window in roof.

Cadillac Cust Svc
06-14-13, 03:26 PM
i have a 2008 cadillac cts 3.6 di and my moonroof is leaking. i heard that it is a defect in the cts model. how do i resolve my issue? thanks, mike

Hello Mike,

If you private message me with your VIN and current mileage, I am more than happy to further assist you with this concern.

Regards,

Laura M.
Cadillac Customer Service

hauler
06-14-13, 05:01 PM
Lots of good information and advice here: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2008-2013-cadillac-cts-general-discussion/242719-hi-im-engineer-tell-me-about.html

touchdown1999
06-14-13, 05:23 PM
hi Laura m. I (PM'd you). I also noticed that the water leaked into the trunk of my 2008 cts. it is damp in the trunk area where I had the water build up in the rear floor and seat. I also noticed the leak in front also. the water build up varies on how the car is parked. it depends on the tilt of the parked vehicle on the street. I have read some of the forums and it has been stated that General Motors is aware of it and they have been addressing the issue on most occasions. I do have a warranty. please help me resolve this issue. thanks, Mike.

----------

thanks hauler for the link. it was helpful

Cadillac Cust Svc
06-14-13, 07:00 PM
hi Laura m. I (PM'd you). I also noticed that the water leaked into the trunk of my 2008 cts. it is damp in the trunk area where I had the water build up in the rear floor and seat. I also noticed the leak in front also. the water build up varies on how the car is parked. it depends on the tilt of the parked vehicle on the street. I have read some of the forums and it has been stated that General Motors is aware of it and they have been addressing the issue on most occasions. I do have a warranty. please help me resolve this issue. thanks, Mike.

----------

thanks hauler for the link. it was helpful

Hello Mike,

I see that Laura has responded to your PM and asked you for some additional information. She will be out of the office for the weekend, but I will be sure to pass along the information to her when she gets back on Monday. Thank you very much for your time.

Gregory W.
Cadillac Customer Care

jlmhester
03-29-14, 04:47 PM
I am having the same type issue with my 2008 CTS. About a month ago I opened the trunk of my car and noticed mildew on a leather jacket that had been stored in it. This prompted me to investigate further. As I removed the contents of my trunk I discovered that the entire floor of my trunk was wet and mildewed. I removed the panel that covers up the spare tire. That entire space under the panel was full of water. It appeared the water was evaporating upward into the trunk causing the trunk floor to be wet and mildewed. I used a shop-vac to remove the water and cleaned my trunk the best I could, thinking it was just a minor mishap. I didn't put anything else back in my trunk. Two weeks later, I opened the trunk and discovered that space was full of water again. I then took it Chevy Dealer I bought it from. The service associate was completely puzzled to why this would be happening. He sent me to a local body shop that they use because they don't do body work the at dealership. The owner of the body shopped looked at my problem and thought that it would be a simple fix, some minor leak around the tail light or something like that. Once he got to my car and tried to fix it, he discovered that it was coming from the moon roof. The actual roof its self was not leaking but the drainage system was not working properly. I was told that the drainage system on my car was a bad/faulty design. They are parts that are not long enough to adequately run the water off, the tubing is the same length that is used with sun roofs( my car has both sun and moon=doubling the size and space) and the flaps at the end of the tubes where the water comes out, don't always open. He also said that it had been leaking for a long time and was by far the worst leak he has every seen. There is significant amount of water damage to my car. He found large amounts of mold or calcium like deposits under the head liner, the rear floor, and in my trunk. Of course my car is no longer under warranty and the dealerships says there is nothing that they can do. I am beyond disgusted with this issue. I understand that issues arise with normal wear and tear on a vehicle, but this is not normal. I can count on one hand how many times the moon roof has been opened. What I don't understand is the fact that the drainage system has failed due to it's inadequate design and no one wants to accept responsibility for it. I am still paying on this car. I bought a Cadillac and I expected Cadillac service. This has not been the case in my situation. I just want someone to make this right or help me with the steps to take to get this taking care of.

snofun3
03-29-14, 05:21 PM
I am having the same type issue with my 2008 CTS. About a month ago I opened the trunk of my car and noticed mildew on a leather jacket that had been stored in it. This prompted me to investigate further. As I removed the contents of my trunk I discovered that the entire floor of my trunk was wet and mildewed. I removed the panel that covers up the spare tire. That entire space under the panel was full of water. It appeared the water was evaporating upward into the trunk causing the trunk floor to be wet and mildewed. I used a shop-vac to remove the water and cleaned my trunk the best I could, thinking it was just a minor mishap. I didn't put anything else back in my trunk. Two weeks later, I opened the trunk and discovered that space was full of water again. I then took it Chevy Dealer I bought it from. The service associate was completely puzzled to why this would be happening. He sent me to a local body shop that they use because they don't do body work the at dealership. The owner of the body shopped looked at my problem and thought that it would be a simple fix, some minor leak around the tail light or something like that. Once he got to my car and tried to fix it, he discovered that it was coming from the moon roof. The actual roof its self was not leaking but the drainage system was not working properly. I was told that the drainage system on my car was a bad/faulty design. They are parts that are not long enough to adequately run the water off, the tubing is the same length that is used with sun roofs( my car has both sun and moon=doubling the size and space) and the flaps at the end of the tubes where the water comes out, don't always open. He also said that it had been leaking for a long time and was by far the worst leak he has every seen. There is significant amount of water damage to my car. He found large amounts of mold or calcium like deposits under the head liner, the rear floor, and in my trunk. Of course my car is no longer under warranty and the dealerships says there is nothing that they can do. I am beyond disgusted with this issue. I understand that issues arise with normal wear and tear on a vehicle, but this is not normal. I can count on one hand how many times the moon roof has been opened. What I don't understand is the fact that the drainage system has failed due to it's inadequate design and no one wants to accept responsibility for it. I am still paying on this car. I bought a Cadillac and I expected Cadillac service. This has not been the case in my situation. I just want someone to make this right or help me with the steps to take to get this taking care of.

Gheesh, what's not to love about a monoparagraph?

Anyway, check post #2. Dozens of threads about this, just a short search and you'll know everything you could possibly want.

jlmhester
03-30-14, 02:00 AM
Gheesh, what's not to love about a monoparagraph?

Anyway, check post #2. Dozens of threads about this, just a short search and you'll know everything you could possibly want.


Sorry if my monoparagraph offended you and thanks for the search tip. I did search the forum for threads and yes there is a lot of useful information but not a solution. I have been well educated on the design, function, and proper servicing of my sun/moon roof. This education is a little too late for me. The issue now is the cost of repairing the damage caused by inadequate drainage system. I posted in hopes of finding a recall or some assistance by Cadillac customer service.

snofun3
03-30-14, 09:43 AM
Sorry if my monoparagraph offended you and thanks for the search tip. I did search the forum for threads and yes there is a lot of useful information but not a solution. I have been well educated on the design, function, and proper servicing of my sun/moon roof. This education is a little too late for me. The issue now is the cost of repairing the damage caused by inadequate drainage system. I posted in hopes of finding a recall or some assistance by Cadillac customer service.

Cadillac customer service chimes in on most threads, (including this one). Why not send a PM?

jlmhester
03-30-14, 11:57 AM
Cadillac customer service chimes in on most threads, (including this one). Why not send a PM?

Wow.....are you the forum police or what?? Give a break would ya? I did PM them, Thx for all your help and concern :-)

Tbbt
03-30-14, 12:16 PM
jlmhester,

Snowfun3 is a negative troll, pay no attention to him.

Now for you, Glad you joined the forum yesterday. But like many new members, you came here too late. Maybe if you had been here before now, you would have already known you need to clean your drain lines and not had the damage. This is a great forum, absolutely full of information.

Cadillac Customer Service I a member just like you and me. They do monitor the forum and provide assistance when possible, but you could get the same assistance by calling them.

Again Welcome!

jlmhester
03-30-14, 12:32 PM
jlmhester,

Snowfun3 is a negative troll, pay no attention to him.

Now for you, Glad you joined the forum yesterday. But like many new members, you came here too late. Maybe if you had been here before now, you would have already known you need to clean your drain lines and not had the damage. This is a great forum, absolutely full of information.

Cadillac Customer Service I a member just like you and me. They do monitor the forum and provide assistance when possible, but you could get the same assistance by calling them.

Again Welcome!

Thanks so much for your encouraging words. After reading some of the threads, I've bout figured that I am going to have to pay for this expensive lesson. Up until now I have really enjoyed my car with the exception of locking my self out from time to time, thank goodness for On star. I won't say that I will never own another Cadillac but I will say that I won't have another vehicle with a sun roof. Especially when it serves no purpose for me.

I have been looking around at other vehicles but it's hard to get one with all the bells and whistles without a sun roof. A sun roof seems to be the standard of a luxury package.

Thanks again for welcoming me and I truly appreciate all the knowledge I have gained from this forum.

jeffc83
03-30-14, 12:54 PM
^^Welcome to the forum! You're absolutely correct... it's hard to find fully loaded Cadillac without a sunroof let alone other brands. It sucks when you're a person that doesn't really want one too. Good luck with your repair!

jlmhester
03-30-14, 05:44 PM
^^Welcome to the forum! You're absolutely correct... it's hard to find fully loaded Cadillac without a sunroof let alone other brands. It sucks when you're a person that doesn't really want one too. Good luck with your repair!

Thanks for the welcome and wishing me luck!!! Looks as if I'm going to need it :-)

jeffc83
03-30-14, 07:19 PM
I can relate...my trunk carpet was ruined after a week of owning the car. Although the dealer fixed the problem after the third try and replaced the carpet, it still didn't sit well with me for a while. On the plus side, I had no other sunroof issues 2+ years after that! (I never cleaned the drains during that timeframe) Instead of saying "good luck", I should've said "I'm sure your problem will be resolved"!

Cadillac Cust Svc
03-31-14, 11:48 AM
I am having the same type issue with my 2008 CTS. About a month ago I opened the trunk of my car and noticed mildew on a leather jacket that had been stored in it. This prompted me to investigate further. As I removed the contents of my trunk I discovered that the entire floor of my trunk was wet and mildewed. I removed the panel that covers up the spare tire. That entire space under the panel was full of water. It appeared the water was evaporating upward into the trunk causing the trunk floor to be wet and mildewed. I used a shop-vac to remove the water and cleaned my trunk the best I could, thinking it was just a minor mishap. I didn't put anything else back in my trunk. Two weeks later, I opened the trunk and discovered that space was full of water again. I then took it Chevy Dealer I bought it from. The service associate was completely puzzled to why this would be happening. He sent me to a local body shop that they use because they don't do body work the at dealership. The owner of the body shopped looked at my problem and thought that it would be a simple fix, some minor leak around the tail light or something like that. Once he got to my car and tried to fix it, he discovered that it was coming from the moon roof. The actual roof its self was not leaking but the drainage system was not working properly. I was told that the drainage system on my car was a bad/faulty design. They are parts that are not long enough to adequately run the water off, the tubing is the same length that is used with sun roofs( my car has both sun and moon=doubling the size and space) and the flaps at the end of the tubes where the water comes out, don't always open. He also said that it had been leaking for a long time and was by far the worst leak he has every seen. There is significant amount of water damage to my car. He found large amounts of mold or calcium like deposits under the head liner, the rear floor, and in my trunk. Of course my car is no longer under warranty and the dealerships says there is nothing that they can do. I am beyond disgusted with this issue. I understand that issues arise with normal wear and tear on a vehicle, but this is not normal. I can count on one hand how many times the moon roof has been opened. What I don't understand is the fact that the drainage system has failed due to it's inadequate design and no one wants to accept responsibility for it. I am still paying on this car. I bought a Cadillac and I expected Cadillac service. This has not been the case in my situation. I just want someone to make this right or help me with the steps to take to get this taking care of.

Hi jlmhester,

Welcome to the forum!
Your fellow forum members are correct in that there is a wealth of knowledge among the threads. I have replied to your PM and would be happy to further assist if you still require it.

Austin J.
Cadillac Customer Care

tinman
03-31-14, 01:35 PM
^^Welcome to the forum! You're absolutely correct... it's hard to find fully loaded Cadillac without a sunroof let alone other brands. It sucks when you're a person that doesn't really want one too. Good luck with your repair!

I am actually thinking of buying a new wagon since they won't be making them anymore. But I don't want a roof, and just like you said, Jeff, it's impossible to get one without that confounded roof.

Douglas Rome
03-31-14, 03:11 PM
it may be more difficult, but it's not impossible. They do make them
with sun/moonroof delete. thanks, douglas

wcthunder
03-31-14, 03:38 PM
jlmhester,

Snowfun3 is a negative troll, pay no attention to him.

I agree Tbbt, he sounds like a salesman! LTM.

BUT, Welcome!!! :yup:

Late for pizza
04-01-14, 12:07 AM
Our car is one of the leakers and the dealer is now bending over backwards to fix it. At first they could not find a leak no matter how they tried. Then they washed it and parked it in front of their building....and then the headliner was soaking wet in the rear driver corner. We found out that our car does not leak unless it is parked pointed up hill. If the car is level, the car does not leak. (We have tried in the car wash several times.) Now a new headliner is on order and as soon as it arrives, the car goes in for surgery.

I have suggested to them they should or could convert the 1/4" lines to 1/2" lines, but I am not sure that the size conversion is on the approved list of corrections.

I have heard that the tray pan or liner can or does leak from time to time. One person on the forum noted that they were able to seal the tray so that it did not leak anymore. Our dealer noted they were or planning to take the moon roof out. At the moment I am hoping that they see and are willing to fix items that are just outside of the scope of the service bulletin. (I can hope right) I have not seen a lot of comments about the tray/pan leaking.

They are also saying that they have to take out the windshield to remove and replace the new headliner. I told them that several of the people from this forum have fixed this without taking the windshield out....

The good part is that they have promised to take care of the problem and they know that it is a problem that they are going to fix.

New headliner and all covered by warranty....we are lucky.

tinman
04-01-14, 08:26 AM
Good!

jlmhester
04-01-14, 11:26 PM
Awesome news! !!

J Bubba
04-02-14, 12:16 PM
These 08 moon roof leak threads are killing me. I just bought a used 08 two weeks ago with the moon roof. No notes in service history about a moon roof leak. But it's winter here and no rain yet. My driveway is on a hill which seems to be an issue if you're parked on a hill and it rains. I have taken it on the highway and I don't get any wind noise to complain about. That centre trim piece in between the two glass panels has a slight rattle sometimes that goes away when pressed on gently. But not a noise loud enough to even complain about. Anyhow, so far so good, just wondering how many 08 owners with a moon roof have had no problems. My 03 had a moon roof and didn't leak once in the 10 years I owned it.

Tbbt
04-02-14, 12:57 PM
Maybe a pre-emptive cleaning on the drain tubes would be a good idea. Especially if you park your car outside. Read the treads about using trimmer line to clean the drain tubes.

jeffc83
04-02-14, 01:47 PM
Maybe a pre-emptive cleaning on the drain tubes would be a good idea. Especially if you park your car outside. Read the treads about using trimmer line to clean the drain tubes.

VERY good advice! Preventive maintenence is key...these drains are NOT thick enough to go untouched.

tinman
04-02-14, 01:49 PM
25. Ultraview Sunroof Water Leak in Passenger Floor Area

Try using a turkey baster as a “toilet plunger” and work the drain with water in it. Try the ol’ “in and out” routine until it hopefully forces the water and debris out the drain line. Then the light bulb went off. With the drain lines full of water along with the sunroof tray, I put the turkey baster directly on the drain hole and started pumping. I started feeling some resistance and then the clog finally gave way. A perfect stream of water was now flowing onto the driveway at the bottom of wheel well.
OR
Use thick monofilament or weed wacker line to run through the 4 drains. Smooth out the cut end of the line with sandpaper to help it slide through the drains.

Open sunroof.

Front: Take a cup of water and carefully pour into front drain channel to gauge initial drain rate. Use weed wacker line and rod out front drains from roof. The front drain lines run down the "A" pillars and exit out the side (behind the fender) about a foot below the top of the dash, about 3-1/2 feet. Pour more water and observe draining. Run weed wacker line again. Repeat until satisfied. You should notice the run off puddling behind the front wheels and may also observe dirt/sludge/algae that was in the lines.

Rear: The rear drain lines run down the "C" pillars into the trunk and exit out the rear wheelhouses. Peel back the sides of the trunk liner to access the drain lines. The right rear drain line can be seen by removing the battery access cover, but it is difficult to work with unless you peel back the liner. Detach the rear lines from the wheel well grommets and run weed wacker line up the drain lines. The distance from the drain outlet to the sunroof is about 4-1/2 feet. Place the drain line in a bucket or bottle. Carefully pour water into the side drain channels of the sunroof. You may want to have someone pour water in the channels while you observe the flow into the bucket/bottle. Run weed wacker line again. Repeat until satisfied.

All sunroofs leak some water and that leak off is normally handled by the drain lines. IMO this sunroof is a flawed design for two reasons. (1) The fixed portion of the sunroof uses the same type of perimeter seal the moving portion uses and therefore doubles the amount of leak off compared to a standard sunroof; (2) The drain lines are undersized even for a standard sized sunroof. As a result of this, the drain lines, at best, are barely adequate for a light rain. Throw in a little bit of clogging and a more intense rain and we get what we all complain about. After constantly cleaning lines and still living with leaks, I removed my headliner to see if I could resolve this problem. I replaced all four lines with 1/2" I.D. tubing in place of the factory 1/4" I.D. and have had zero leakage even in a total downpour (I live in Florida).

Use 1/2" I.D - 5/8" O.D. clear hose from any hardware store. I considered 3/8", but why not not use the largest size that will fit?

The 4 drain nipples on the corner of the sunroof are 1/2” O.D. There is a grommet on each corner that reduces them to 3/8” O.D. to fit the original drain lines. The clear hose fit perfectly on the sunroof nipples once the reducer was removed. There are clips on the stock hose that keep them in place (2 in the rear and 3 in front - 2 on "A" pillar, 1 under dash). Remove the clips from the stock hose, tape precut lengths of new hose to them (roof side) and then pull the whole thing through the trunk and underdash, respectively. Place a grommet around the front lines and secure the grommet to the existing inner fender holes. The fronts were a pain to get to and you have to slightly enlarge the hole to accomadate the larger grommet. The rears were easy. Secure the new hose to a 1/2” nipple and push it through the existing wheelhouse grommet.

Removing and reinstalling the interior parts (especially the headliner) takes patience and took the longest time, but is not overly difficult. I removed the headliner from my car, but I would recommend leaving it in and trying to work around it. There are two electrical harnesses that are glued to the headliner that I had to remove and then reattach when installing.

Originally Posted by loosend
What so you mean about the 1 under the dash and how does that one come into play? Is it the AC condenser drain tube or related to the sunroof? How do you get to that one under the dash?

The nylon clips clamp around the hose and then push into a body hole with a barbed end. In order to pull the stock hoses out you have to remove these clips. The front hoses have two clips on the "A" pillar that are easily removed. There is a third hose clip that can only be removed by reaching under the dash. The sunroof drains only drain the sunroof.

*Remove the front kick panels (these are the plastic side panels under the dash - to the left of the driver's feet, right of the passenger's feet.
*Remove under dash trim plates - plastic panels under driver and passenger dash area - both have lights that need to be unplugged. Passenger side has airbag control module (I think it was) that needs to be unplugged also.
*Once these panels are removed, reach up and peel back the carpeting from the outer corners. The carpeting has attached insulation and is fairly rigid so takes a little effort to move. On the driver’s side there is also a styrofoam wedge (dead pedal) that I found easier to remove and then glue back to the carpeting.
*With a light, look up under the dash to the now exposed side area (I ended up on my back for this part). You should see the drain hose coming down (if you follow the hose up you should now see the third clip) and then going through an access hole and finally plugging into a grommet in the inner fender. Tugging a little on the drain hose from above (while you're lying under the dash) may help to identify what you are looking at.

J Bubba
04-02-14, 11:44 PM
Wow, great info. Thanks! Will do preventative maintenance on it as soon as we start getting rain instead of snow.

Panzer Leader
04-03-14, 09:04 PM
Nothing like a $50K car, right..... Another Cadillac/GM success story..... BTW, if this started with the 08 models, you have to wonder why corrections were not made on the later models..... Then again, they did not do it on ignition switches did they? Perhaps a class action law suite is needed.... My last GM, except for those built by Holden in Australia.....