: Bought 1998 Deville 4 days ago - overheating



znewsom842
06-03-13, 11:02 AM
I should guess that norms serts or the big serts would probably be a good way for you to go especially if you have a hook up for discount/wholesale priced oem parts. Also there's a water pump cover upgrade much discussed here that might be worth lookin into.



Welcome Ray, I'm also a ASE Master Tech who in the last year or so was thrust into intimate knowledge of the Northstar system by necessity of ownership and the desire to actually use the car for at least another 80K+. Like California, Northstar's a brand new game. I'll give you my tips and lessons learned.
1. Quickest way to replace head gaskets = in car. Quickest way to overhaul the engine is the only way, out. If you're going to do timing chains or reseal the bottom end plan on taking it out. If it's just a fix it quick just pull the heads in the car.
2. Since you have a lift, hoist, and table most definitely drop the powertrain, or rather lift the body off of it. That's what I did. Like you I'm good and finding the easiest or quickest way to do these things, even though it usually takes longer the first time due to mistakes and unknowns. The brake system has rear line disconnects just aft of the sub-frame, then cap. I pulled the master cylinder off the booster and it lays on the engine still sealed. ABS is mounted to sub-frame so that stays. Remove hoses from front lines and cap. Fuel and emissions disconnect as does the steering shaft. All hoses come off, the heater pipes stay on firewall. A/C compressor stays with engine so evacuate Freon first, remove and cap hoses that stay on body. Disassemble fuse box so that you lay harness attached section on engine and harness goes down with it. Pull both axles and disconnect outer tie-rods from spindles. disconnect lower control arms from sub-frame and leave everything else hanging from body, brakes, spindles, and struts will stay intact, ball joints allow it to swivel away. ABS sensor wires stay with engine. Pull the radiator and fans. Misc stuff like air box, brakets, O2 sensors, obviously comes out of the way first, (I stash everything in trunks for safe keeping). Unbolt the exhaust at the front of the system (rear manifold flanges) it will clear fine. I removed the flex-plate bolts from the old school starthr pocket but pulling the intake and starter underneath I think will give easier access. Then you sit the frame on your table and take the mount bolts out. Then it raises away to leave a drive-train now easily accessed and separated. I'm sure I forgot something, just ask.
3. You see any stripped holes when you take the bolts out, don't bother re-torqueing as that's pointless. Mine only had one. Once a hole has failed it has to be repaired, the bolts are tiny and the metal is soft. The CCC stud kit is what I used, they are much larger with longer deeper threads, and no block is so porous that they can't hold.
4. No they don't normally crack, one would have the really try to melt that engine to get that far. I resurfaced mine because after replacing 32 valve seals with a hand spring compressor the surface had many blems. Once again this metal is soft, all finished surfaces must be handled with kid gloves.
5. I prefer Fel-Pro, all theirs are the latest design. Everything in the FP kit's were excellent. I don't know about Victor for the N*, I've used their stuff before on other jobs. If you open the bottom end you'll need the special GM gray silicone and a new separator plate to put it all back together without leaks or problems.
6 & 7. I can arrange to rent you the tools for studding and overhaul as I don't specialize in N*'s. I believe I have all of them. I've quite the investment in them so a refundable deposit would be required. Several important things like the rear main seal and locking the crank can't be done well without them. The hooks and blocks timing chain tools are for the last generation N*. There are three different sets or methods of timing chain tooling. I bought everything (a master set) then ended up only needing bailing wire for mine. This is were factory level information to read ahead of time helps.

I'm sure you've forgot a bunch of stuff and don't even know how much you don't know yet, I know that I didn't LOL. There's another forum on this site that if you go to the forum main page and sort down to the engine specific group you'll find. It's Northstar Performance and Tech. That's were you should transfer this post too and take up residence for the next several weeks. There you'll also find countless documented DIY'ers trips into this task and you can start your own Q&A thread that won't get bumped off page every day and myself and several of the other N* gear-heads on site will follow along and offer all kinds of help and information as you go. Give it a look.
Regards,
Vernon

I saw your posts and had a question.. I bought a 98 deville about 4 days ago and have had problems with over heating its a really clean car with only 128000 on it and i bought it from a dealer with the impression that the only thing wrong was the battery ( which just needed a slow charge) but before i even got home with the car it started running hot and i turned around and went bavk to the dealer and he was pretty sure that it was the thermostat so we filled it up with water and i got home no problem an even drove it the rest of the day with none but that night it started running hot amd a 45 minute trip turned into 3 hours having to stop and let it cool an put more water in the next day i got in it and once again had no problems until later on that day after driving it quite a bit and i noticed that the cooling fabs wasnt cutting on so i fixed them and took the thermostat out and filled it back up with half antifreeze and half water to yest and see wht happend and it still overheated so then i noticed when putting more water in to cool it that it was sucking water from the coolant res.. While running it was bubbling out of it instead till u cut the motor off then it would drain down so i figured it was mabey the water/p then a buddy ( who is a pretty good mechanic ) told me that it sounded like i had air pockets in the lines yesterday an i havent had time to check that out yet but last night i was doing research and came along the forms and seen that the particular gen. North star motor in my caddy had HG problems so i was just woundering what your best opinion would be for me to do i am 22 years old and iv been wanting a caddy for years and finally got one i even gave up my baby to get it ( a 04 4 door ram 1500 to get it ) so i will be very diapointed if i cant fix my caddy so any advice would be very much appriciated

Ranger
06-03-13, 11:59 AM
:welcome:

If you've been reading this forum you should have seen the procedure by now. First check to see that the purge line is not clogged. If you have flow there, then do a block test. Chances are you made a bad purchase.

You CAN fix it, but it won't be cheap. DO NOT attempt to put any liquid repair-in-a-bottle in it either.

znewsom842
06-03-13, 12:05 PM
:welcome:

If you've been reading this forum you should have seen the procedure by now. First check to see that the purge line is not clogged. If you have flow there, then do a block test. Chances are you made a bad purchase.

You CAN fix it, but it won't be cheap. DO NOT attempt to put any liquid repair-in-a-bottle in it either.

I pulled the line coming into the res.. And it Harley had any water coming out and what was coming out was black and nasty looking and there what looked like dirt or something coming out to

Ranger
06-03-13, 12:20 PM
That's not normal. Maybe someone already added the snake oil to unload it. Follow that purge line to the other end and clear the hollow bolt it's attached to, but that may only be a temporary fix. I'd do a block test after the next overheat episode.

Submariner409
06-03-13, 12:30 PM
Perform a cylinder block exhaust gas test - as posted, everything you've said sounds like someone unloaded a very expensive repair bill on you.

znewsom842
06-03-13, 12:30 PM
That's not normal. Maybe someone already added the snake oil to unload it. Follow that purge line to the other end and clear the hollow bolt it's attached to, but that may only be a temporary fix. I'd do a block test after the next overheat episode.

I'm on my way back to the dealer now and ima raise hell with every one there if I have to till they atleast check it out and tell exactly what's going on I'm tired Iv been under the hood for 3 days now and Iv only had it 4days

Submariner409
06-03-13, 12:56 PM
znewsom842, I started a new thread for you - no sense hijacking the other one - even though it's pretty close to the same subject. Now all YOUR info will be in YOUR thread.

znewsom842
06-03-13, 01:15 PM
znewsom842, I started a new thread for you - no sense hijacking the other one - even though it's pretty close to the same subject. Now all YOUR info will be in YOUR thread.

Cool thanks

stoveguyy
06-03-13, 01:47 PM
Car is going back to dealer. So any more comments are pointless. OP may return with update. Dealer takes car back? Dealer offers to replace waterpump? Flush cooling system?

znewsom842
06-03-13, 02:03 PM
Car is going back to dealer. So any more comments are pointless. OP may return with update. Dealer takes car back? Dealer offers to replace waterpump? Flush cooling system?

He's saying he has to talk to his boss buddy of mine bought a eclipse the same day and it's broke down to

Submariner409
06-03-13, 04:43 PM
Somebody find the thread from 3 years ago - the one about the used car dealer (in the midwest ???) flipping junk cars off a so-called "high end" car lot.

Manic Mechanic
06-03-13, 09:21 PM
The last guy that was asking about buying a used Deville got cold feet when I told him all the things I would check on it if he brought it over. LOL. So far my Deville has been broken down about as much as running and cost me a bunch of money. I'm about ready to give up on it.

Vernon

znewsom842
06-03-13, 11:22 PM
My 98 deville has been doing the same thing and today when I filled the reservoir I squeezed the top radiator hose a few times as a attempt to " burp" it and when I took off it was at 160 F and it dropped down to 150 while I was driving and with in 10 it was up to 250 and I took the hollow bolt out while it was running and it would only come out when u revved up and then it would shot out a like a quick Burst of water

stoveguyy
06-04-13, 11:03 AM
Maybe I spoke too soon? He said he was going to talk to dealer? Saw a 02 SLS on CL. Owner says it overheated 2 weeks after buying it. Is partially torn down. Owner gave up. Wants 1200 for it. Hmm.

znewsom842
06-04-13, 12:47 PM
Maybe I spoke too soon? He said he was going to talk to dealer? Saw a 02 SLS on CL. Owner says it overheated 2 weeks after buying it. Is partially torn down. Owner gave up. Wants 1200 for it. Hmm.

Mines parked at the dealer now he said gm had pills for the radiator that'll fix it I til him no

Manic Mechanic
06-04-13, 01:46 PM
They won't fix it. At best they'll delay the inevitable a little while, at worst they'll clog something up so it'll be messed up when you do fix the engine.

Vernon

83CADMAN
06-04-13, 02:13 PM
Mines parked at the dealer now he said gm had pills for the radiator that'll fix it I til him no

Magic GM pills??? LMAO! "NO!" was the correct answer. Good luck!

znewsom842
06-04-13, 05:11 PM
Magic GM pills??? LMAO! "NO!" was the correct answer. Good luck!

Hated to do it but ended up trading for a 99 Lincoln it's a nice car but it ain't the caddy but I either had the choice to take a chance with the pills and a 150 bucks to help pay for gaskets or take the Lincoln and it seemed like my best bet (even tho I can't stand fords)

Manic Mechanic
06-04-13, 05:24 PM
Even though we feel the same about Fords I think you made the best of the situation.

Vernon

Ranger
06-04-13, 09:41 PM
(even tho I can't stand fords)
You'll be back.

Submariner409
06-04-13, 09:52 PM
The Ford Panther platform is a reliable, sturdy daily driver. Ever wonder why so many taxicabs are Crown Vics ???

drewsdeville
06-04-13, 11:00 PM
Because it's the only car you can consistently pick up for pennies on the dollar, in large volume, at auction...

stoveguyy
06-05-13, 09:23 AM
150 to put sealant tabs in? or you pay 150 towards new cylinder head gaskets? something got lost in post

znewsom842
06-05-13, 06:23 PM
150 to put sealant tabs in? or you pay 150 towards new cylinder head gaskets? something got lost in posthe was gunna give the tablets and 150 toward new gaskets

JoeTahoe
06-06-13, 03:36 AM
Wow that was very generous lol

znewsom842
06-06-13, 03:39 PM
Wow that was very generous lol

Not really I got a quote from gm to do it and they was talking 2500 - 3000

big greg
06-06-13, 06:17 PM
Not really I got a quote from gm to do it and they was talking 2500 - 3000

Yea he was being sarcastic lol