: Time to step up the Brake Game



OneFast V
06-01-13, 08:42 PM
After 5 track days in the V I have decided the Stock front calipers just aren't good enough. Amazon was selling the V2 yellow front calipers for $550/pair, i could not pass that deal up.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6GkvQ0x2WuA/UaqGYoFb2CI/AAAAAAAAAuM/C581Q_5xEgs/w958-h573-no/2013-06-01

These things make the V1 calipers seem puny. So far I just purchased the calipers, mounting hardware and EBC yellowstuff pads. I am going to run on the smaller V1 rotors for now. If it causes me issues I will be purchasing the centric co-cast V2 rotors and re-drilling them.

odla
06-02-13, 12:29 AM
Wow that's not a bad price. Have a link to the amazon page?

OneFast V
06-09-13, 05:12 PM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VK1phHYazO8/UbJWtm2J6VI/AAAAAAAAAuw/UgAIPuyfSRI/w498-h833-no/2013-06-07
Calipers mounted

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XQv3HgwBCik/UbJWwVCJ8HI/AAAAAAAAAvM/b8zFYNTnZu0/w498-h833-no/2013-06-07
overlap (measured with calipers at just around .25")

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3RayA9vb1u8/UbJWywhYi7I/AAAAAAAAAvw/R07UFoRlko8/w498-h833-no/2013-06-07

With the wheel back on.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kq3R_sHkndc/UbJxJwVA6yI/AAAAAAAAAw8/KpT8EawKY9g/w958-h641-no/IMAG0175.jpg
And a full shot. yes i know the brake colors don't match....

I will reserve my impression until i have more miles on the car as these pads are brand new and i had just gotten used to the old pads which were shot.

repenttokyo
06-09-13, 06:37 PM
wow they look ENORMOUS behind those wheels!

odla
06-09-13, 11:12 PM
Look big for sure.

danrob0123
06-09-13, 11:27 PM
Looks great! So this is a straight bolt-on mod just using the stock rotors?

OneFast V
06-10-13, 01:13 AM
Looks great! So this is a straight bolt-on mod just using the stock rotors?

You have to drill out the stock caliper mounting holes from 12mm to 14mm or 9/16". Otherwise the rest just bolts on.

odthetruth
06-10-13, 03:18 AM
God damn, those calipers are gianormous.
Hows stopping power feel? Does it feel to have affected handling under braking?

barrok69
06-10-13, 11:08 AM
Are you planning on painting/powdercoating your rears or replacing them with new yellow ones?

The Yellow really looks good on your car.

OneFast V
06-10-13, 11:32 AM
God damn, those calipers are gianormous.
Hows stopping power feel? Does it feel to have affected handling under braking?

I have only really done street driving. However in the process of bedding the pads it does seem to have increased stopping power and definitely slightly shorter pedal engagement. I will reserve final judgement until after my next track day.


Are you planning on painting/powdercoating your rears or replacing them with new yellow ones?

The Yellow really looks good on your car.

I will eventually be painting the rear calipers yellow to match, or maybe not... because racecar.

danrob0123
06-10-13, 12:47 PM
I want! Was planning on getting my calipers powder coated/rebuilt anyway so maybe ill upgrade =]

Chirpin4th
06-16-13, 03:01 PM
How much clearance did you lose between the caliper and the inside of the wheel? My stock calipers are a very tight fit on my 505a's

UnsafeAtAnySpd
06-16-13, 07:20 PM
I want! Was planning on getting my calipers powder coated/rebuilt anyway so maybe ill upgrade =]

That was my excuse. Just need some time to get them on the car. As good as they look sitting on my bedroom floor, I think they'll look better on the car...

OneFast V
06-17-13, 01:46 AM
How much clearance did you lose between the caliper and the inside of the wheel? My stock calipers are a very tight fit on my 505a's

Honestly I'm not sure. But I could measure from the mounting bolt to the outer edge if the caliper if you need the measurement. Or from the center of the wheel to the farthest piece out.

JFensty
06-17-13, 10:51 AM
Are the stock rear calipers adequate or should those be stepped up as well?

Chirpin4th
06-17-13, 11:02 AM
Honestly I'm not sure. But I could measure from the mounting bolt to the outer edge if the caliper if you need the measurement. Or from the center of the wheel to the farthest piece out.

either one would be perfect. Thanks!

thebigjimsho
06-17-13, 12:14 PM
Are the stock rear calipers adequate or should those be stepped up as well?

They are the same from V1 to V2...

OneFast V
06-17-13, 12:38 PM
Are the stock rear calipers adequate or should those be stepped up as well?

V2 runs the same rear calipers. So if you wanted to upgrade you would have to figure something else out. Either way the stock rears are more than adequate in my opinion.

Jeff James
07-15-13, 09:37 PM
Just ordered yellow ones too. I will be stripping them and PCing them red. GM Yellow new are $320ea. The red ones are $700+ ea. I can have a lot of powder coating done for that. Going to crossdrilledbrakes.com for Rotors and Pads but will be getting Track Pads and OE 2pc Hat/Rotors later.

xbladr
07-17-13, 12:07 AM
That looks plain amazing!

Naf
07-17-13, 04:23 AM
I did the same thing, i also noticed ppl are not having a good time with the DTC-30 so i ordered the dtc-60 from Hawk.

I am using HPS for daily driver, and for track i will use the dtc-60.

Nice setup, if you want to save a few more bucks but the G2 expoxy paint. You can paint it right on the car, but you lose the V badge.

I just bought the whole kit from Luke and he took care of all the odds and ends i will use as well...

If you are lookin to track then you should have just gotten slotted discs, cross-drilled crack under pressure, Doesnt matter who made them...

vms4evr
07-18-13, 02:18 AM
The DTC-60 are nice. I've used the DTC-70 front and DTC-60 on my track car and they work great. With one exception. DTCs eat rotors quickly. I had 2 piece Wilwoods on front 6-piston Wilwoods. Rotors gone in a few weekends. Went back to running Carbotech pads and same braking but rotors last twice as long. Considering those rings are costing me $200 a corner. I want my rotors to last longer than my pads ;-)

Take a look at Carbotechs. Good outfit and product. Competitive price with Hawks. If you try them to match a DTC-70/60 setup. I'd say try XP16/XP12 or to go a bit easier and cost effective try a XP12/XP10 combo.

Naf
07-18-13, 06:22 AM
i found the pad pn for my setup, but no one seems to have them available yet...

Where do you buy carbotech CT1405-xp12 and CT1053-xp12?

I dont know why the rears for the 04-07 and 09-12 are different pads, the calipers are the same...

vms4evr
07-18-13, 09:42 AM
For an 09-12 the numbers you have is correct. For an 04-07 you want F: CT1001A and R: CT592.

Either way. Call and order direct from Carbotech. It's the easiest way to do it. I've worked with them for 6+ years along with a lot of track rats over on CF (vette forum). They're good. Tell them you're on CF and ask for discount. It's 3-7%. Not much I know. LS1Tech gets a discount too.

Same caliper front and rear and same part? Oh I wish. That would let you swap front/rear to balance out wear. That would be cool. I go through front pads like s@#t through a goose... ;-)

Haven't tracked a V, yet... will have a 1st Gen by end of month. On the C5 they tend to be more consistent using a staggered pad setup. I've used XP20/XP12, XP16/XP12, XP12/XP10, XP10/XP8. I've gone through a lot of sets of the 12/10 and like that overall. It's not that you can't run a square setup. I've done it when I had leftover pads and just needed a set for some open track time.

Just as a reference. I've used lots of Hawk DTC for track and HP+ for autocross. Then Carbotech Bobcats for street (and my truck for towing the Vette), their AX for autocross, and XP for track. The XP have a very linear progressive feel to me. The DTC tends to be a bit more aggressive and more like an on/off switch. They are not as easy to modulate under threshold and trail braking. I was getting into lockup faster with them. Either pad is a good choice and capable of overwhelming even fresh Hoosiers so the stopping power is there.

lollygagger8
07-18-13, 10:21 AM
Those look badass!!!

Just to make sure......these *edit calipers *edit(after drilling out the mounting holes on the caliper mount) will directly fit onto our factory size rotors? You just need the mounting screws, and new pads to fit the calipers?

I wonder if they'd fit under my Forgestar F14s?

OneFast V
07-18-13, 10:45 AM
Those look badass!!!

Just to make sure......these rotors (after drilling out the mounting holes on the caliper mount) will directly fit onto our factory size rotors? You just need the mounting screws, and new pads to fit the calipers?

I wonder if they'd fit under my Forgestar F14s?

I think you mean the caliper will fit onto the factory rotor? If so, the answer is yes.

lollygagger8
07-18-13, 04:25 PM
I think you mean the caliper will fit onto the factory rotor? If so, the answer is yes.

Yes that is what I meant. Whoopsie

OneFast V
07-18-13, 05:42 PM
Yes that is what I meant. Whoopsie

If you look on the first page of this thread and my thread over on LS1tech you can see all the photos I took of the pv2 caliper with the V1 rotor. I have been using it for a while now and it works great.

Skidmarcx
07-18-13, 08:05 PM
Nicely done! Looks much better and for the price you can't argue it!

NickL84
08-01-13, 12:18 PM
For these calipers to work on a V1, would we need a 19" wheel setup, or do the 18" wheels allow just enough clearance for this
application?

AAIIIC
08-01-13, 12:49 PM
The wheels in post #3 are 18" wheels. The factory 18" wheels and 18" Rotas clear just fine, too.

The V2 rotor is only 5mm bigger than the stock rear rotor (370mm vs 365mm), so diameter-wise you're not really pushing the fitment much more than stock. And the V2 caliper doesn't protrude from the face of the rotor any farther than the stock V1 caliper (just based on visually comparing clearance to the backs of the wheel spokes on my car), so from that aspect it doesn't seem to be an issue, either.

Jeff James
08-05-13, 02:29 PM
Just finished (mostly) my upgrade and like it!!
A few tips & lessons learned for those about to do or try this. It is actually very simple,works with OE 18" wheels and OH MY GOD!! stops better.
Products- New V2 Yellow Calipers from Amazon - Search AC Delco 172-2521 & 2522 Under $500.00
Rotors & Pads Crossdrilledbrakes.com Drilled/Slotted With Ceramic Pads AND Hardware $375.00
These are probably not very Track Day friendly but perfect for a DD- Buy better rotors (2 Pc) and pads for TDs
GM #89047739 (2 ea) Boot kits for Rear calipers and GM #89047731 Piston & Seal kits for Rear calipers
These are a must if you are disassembling for Powder-Coat The new fronts will be Ok if you are careful.
GM # 11570788 (4 ea) V2 Caliper bolts These are approx. 3/8 " long for the sum of caliper and upright. I had to shorten mine but may
depend on your choice of rotors.
Eighth Day Creations Caliper decals ($9.00) Order way ahead of need as they probably make to order and aren't the fastest- however they
sent me more than I expected and NO complaints!!
Already had SS Brake lines from Luke and these worked perfect for the upgrade. Suggest you get NEW crush washers for Banjo bolts!!

Disassembly--- All the usual safety stuff here in jacking and blocking so you don't get mushed!!
For any refinishing of calipers leave the fronts on until you have new ones ready to install!
If removing Rears, do so quickly and plug banjo as tight as possible to prevent leaks You will thank me for this come Bleeding time.
I suggest a Fluid upgrade at the same time and I had done so when I did the Hoses. I used ATE Super Blue as it is reasonably priced and
Blue so you know when it is in the system! More on this later! Be sure to top off the Fluid reservoir in case you do develop a leak or seeping
of fluid as banjos are hard to seal up off the caliper.
Used a block (s) of wood inside caliper to blow the pistons out with compressed air. Be careful and it may take a few times of blowing and
pushing the pistons back in before you get them all out for removal. You will need to use a small screwdriver to carefully pry out the boots
then you can use the same for the seals in the bores. Remove all bleeders and the crossover tube to get the insulator tubing off. P-Coater
can't coat that but may clean it nice for you, mine did. DO NOT SPLIT YOUR CALIPERS!!
Don't forget to include the X-over tube when you go to P-Coater. If reusing Rear hardware clean with soap & warm water and brush with an
old toothbrush (or your wife's-just don't tell her!)
Make sure to blow out your PC'd calipers NOW and you can even wash with warm soapy water to make sure they are clean inside!!!

Caliper Assembly goes just opposite but use a Rubber lube or a lot of brake fluid for this process. Seals are a little difficult and use small wood blocks
over dust boots and outside of caliper (suggest Heavy tape on outside to protect new paint. PC seems to be pretty resistant to Brake Fluid
but wipe it off quickly. Tighten all X-over tubes and snug the bleed screws!

Rotor drilling- What a pain and I spent way too much time making sure they were perfect. Machine match the center/hub bore and then you can
clamp the two (Old/New) together for drilling. You will only have four solid holes and two elongated. If possible use an end mill for the
elongated holes to keep from jumping all over. Remember the old rotor stud holes are smaller than the new ones. Don't rush on this!!!!
To remove an old one, unbolt the caliper and hang on the Upper C-Arm out of the way. Do NOT disconnect hoses.

Upright drilling for new Caliper bolts was easy. Used a 9/16" bit in a 1/2 drill and this went quickly. Make sure to blow all the chips off/out!!

Vehicle Assembly - If removed, Hang the rear calipers with pads and hardware on and tighten all bolts especially the banjos.
temporarily mount the front calipers to see if you need to shorten caliper bolts - I recommend you mark and cut off any extra threaded
portion to avoid any issues with rotor. make sure you clean threads well and grind bevel on end before installing.
Do not remove your OE calipers yet !!
Mount your newly drilled rotors and you will NOT be able to use the little countersunk bolt again!
Mount your new Calipers and tighten bolts. Install Pads and hardware. Make sure your rotors turn before going any farther. They may make
noise as pads rub rotors, no problem!!
Now disconnect your old calipers and connect hoses to new calipers, tightening with NEW crush washers!!

I gravity bled my system by opening all of the bleeders and watched until I saw evidence of fluid at each corner. DO NOT MOVE THE Brake
pedal during this step. Once fluid has reached calipers, tighten bleed screws. I also use a bleeder bottle setup that has a tube (tubing) that
goes to BOTTOM of bottle (a clear squirt bottle with a hole in screw top works great. If your tubing is tight in the hole loosen the top slightly to
avoid pressure build in the bottle). Pour 1/2" of fluid in bottle to keep end from being exposed.
Starting at RR attach tube to either bleeder and crack open bleed screw. You can actually move by hand the brake pedal with the bleeder open
and not suck air back into the system. If you have help now, use a soft hammer or wood handle to tap on calipers to release any pockets of
air.
As a side bar here, I panicked the day before, not knowing how much fluid I would need and called and ran all over Hell to find more ATE Super Blue
I did find a BMW specialty shop that had it in stock.

Back to bleeding now, Be sure to check and refill the brake cyl. reservoir often. If calipers were full before you won't use much each caliper.
When evidence of air in tube to bottle is gone, move to the next bleeder. This should only take a few hand pumps for each bleeder. if you are
having problems getting rid of air, make sure your tubing is tight at the bleeder. You may pull some air in there!
Work your way around the car RR,LR,RF,LF in that order. Again, this should only take 2-3 pumps per bleeder!!!
Make sure all of your bleeders are tight and then slowly hold foot pressure on the brake pedal to check for leaks.
I recommend you go around the car ONE more time with help. Hold pedal pressure, open bleeder, close bleeder, release pedal pressure. In that
order!!! Remember the side bar on fluid?? I had one full bottle and bought two. I used less than 1/2 of my existing bottle for bleeding!! Suggest
you have two bottles (pints) to start especially if you upgrade hoses at the same time.
I went and drove the car to bed Pads rotors first time then came back and bled brakes Hot. I did find a tiny bit of air but pedal was great.
I spent more time drilling the damn rotors than the rest of the project combined. This is a simple project that any one comfortable bleeding brakes
can do at home. Clean and box up your Old Front Rotors and Calipers for ??

Next project LS7 clutch, ave all the parts but T/O!

Junior1
08-06-13, 10:44 AM
Very nice. The rotor issue is the only thing holding me back on this. For dedicated track/race duty, rotors and pads are basically disposable. Drilling the hubs would be a bit of a hassle each time. A 2 piece setup would be ideal for me by utilizing a custom hub that mates up to replacement rings similar to what yooper was doing. The only 2 viable options was the Coleman (which cracked in that size) and RB. I'm running the Coleman in stock size without issue so far...

yooper
08-10-13, 01:43 AM
Very nice. The rotor issue is the only thing holding me back on this. For dedicated track/race duty, rotors and pads are basically disposable. Drilling the hubs would be a bit of a hassle each time. A 2 piece setup would be ideal for me by utilizing a custom hub that mates up to replacement rings similar to what yooper was doing. The only 2 viable options was the Coleman (which cracked in that size) and RB. I'm running the Coleman in stock size without issue so far...

Call Gary at Hardbar to see if the heat treated and balanced rotor rings he gets from Coleman will fit the PerformanceAFX hats.
http://hardbarusa.com/hardbar/product_info.php?cPath=21_36&products_id=185

Bill

Junior1
08-10-13, 01:57 PM
Call Gary at Hardbar to see if the heat treated and balanced rotor rings he gets from Coleman will fit the PerformanceAFX hats.
http://hardbarusa.com/hardbar/product_info.php?cPath=21_36&products_id=185

Bill

good to know...

OneFast V
08-11-13, 01:07 PM
Took the car on the track (thunderhill raceway) with the new brakes and they were awesome! Found myself able to go faster and brake a little later than I was before with more confidence in the brakes.

FuzzyLogic
08-13-13, 03:48 PM
Has anyone tried taking their old front brakes and putting them on the rear?

Jeff James
08-14-13, 11:53 AM
Not sure why one would want to do that. The front rotors wouldn't work with E-brake and I think the pistons size is different F-R. Might throw the balance off and end up with a weird pedal. However on further thought, swapping calipers might reduce the rear pressure enough to have a little less rear brake.This might help on a track only application as the V is a little tail happy under hard trail braking!