: STS buying advice



VivienM
05-31-13, 04:35 PM
Hi guys,

New person here - thinking about joining you guys and buying an STS.

I've looked at a few, the one I'm thinking of is a 2007 V6 AWD, 1SB, FE1, with the navigation/15-speaker bose system. 85K kms, though it was originally a US car (seems it was owned by GM for the first little while, then it was imported north).

I saw the list of warranty repairs on the dealer's computer screen, nothing seemed too unusual. Rear axle seal early on, the driver's side door lock recently, etc. There was a GM preowned warranty that ended three weeks ago - I assume that's why the previous owner traded 'er in.

Any general advice? Things I should look for?

Two other things:
1) the tires seem to be nearly worn. Michelin LX4 or something like that. I've been doing some research, it seems like it's hard to get a good solid boring long-lasting all-season tire in the right size for these cars? Anything you guys would recommend?
2) just how bad is the fuel consumption on these?

1BadCadSTS
05-31-13, 06:34 PM
Continental contact dws or Pirelli p zero have my vote.

oldcaddybuyer
05-31-13, 06:54 PM
Do you specifically want a V6? Not a great deal of difference between V8/V6 mpg.

dannyquest
05-31-13, 06:54 PM
VivienM, My 06 STS V-6 gets about 21 city & 27.5 highway. Danny

VivienM
05-31-13, 07:46 PM
Do you specifically want a V6? Not a great deal of difference between V8/V6 mpg.

I think so? A couple of reasons:
1) The V8s on the used market here are all 1SGs, which means magnetic ride - the sense I got lurking on this forum is that magnetic ride is extremely costly to maintain?
2) V8 requires premium gas, which is another cost...
3) I'm guessing the V6 burns a lot less gas when it's idling. Traffic here in Toronto is quite awful, so I'm hoping the V6 will be a whole lot more efficient sitting in traffic waiting to turn left?

(Yes, #3 hints at why I'm attracted to this car: I like the ventilated seats and the 15 speaker Bose system for sitting in traffic)

EChas3
05-31-13, 07:56 PM
Drive some differently-equipped STS before buying. Decide the options you want since upgrades are generally difficult/expensive. These cars do vary a lot.

On tires, I'd recommend against the OEM Michelin's. While long-lasting, like most such, they are to hard to have the best traction. I have Conti DWS on my AWD. My wife's RWD gets snow tires in Winter (Blizzak's) & Conti DW in Summer. If you get more than 3 snows a year or can't afford to stay home, get snow tires or AWD.

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Our V8's run fine on 87 octane. It's true an AWD 1SG gets poor mileage. All the rest are closer than you'd think.

Guy.Seminerio
05-31-13, 08:58 PM
I have a pretty key piece of advice. In 2007 they went to a 6 speed for the v8, so go 07+ for v8. In 08 they went to a 6 spd for the v6, so 08+ for the v6. Although I'd recommend the 8 over the 6. That's just me. Look up the fuel economy numbers of a 2007 v6 vs a 2007 v8. very close since the v8 had the 6spd.

VivienM
05-31-13, 09:06 PM
Drive some differently-equipped STS before buying. Decide the options you want since upgrades are generally difficult/expensive. These cars do vary a lot.

I've driven... three? A fairly base model that didn't impress me much, a 1SG, and this one.

What options is this car missing? V8? adaptive cruise? the ZF steering rack? magnetic ride? the xenons?

It has the FE1 suspension; if anything I'd rather have a little softer, so I doubt the FE3 would be an improvement.


On tires, I'd recommend against the OEM Michelin's. While long-lasting, like most such, they are to hard to have the best traction. I have Conti DWS on my AWD. My wife's RWD gets snow tires in Winter (Blizzak's) & Conti DW in Summer. If you get more than 3 snows a year or can't afford to stay home, get snow tires or AWD.

How long do the Conti DWs last?

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I have a pretty key piece of advice. In 2007 they went to a 6 speed for the v8, so go 07+ for v8. In 08 they went to a 6 spd for the v6, so 08+ for the v6. Although I'd recommend the 8 over the 6. That's just me. Look up the fuel economy numbers of a 2007 v6 vs a 2007 v8. very close since the v8 had the 6spd.

Perhaps not coincidentally, the 2008s seem to be way more money than the 2007s around here...

EChas3
05-31-13, 09:13 PM
DWS has a 50,000 mile warranty. DW's are a Summer tire and don't have a mileage warranty.

Fleet cars have the softest ride, rentals, etc. as do the ones with 17" wheels. Do you like automatic high beams? The HUD is a really nicw addition to the Nav, IMHO.

I love ACC but not everybody does.

Guy.Seminerio
05-31-13, 09:14 PM
Well the 2008s were a major refresh for the STS, both with appearance and available features. Maybe a 07 v8 is the way to go. By the way, not sure what your budget is, but the STS platinum would be a nice little treat for yourself. Different grille, leather wrapped interior with some nice contrast stitching, and I think that's it.

VivienM
05-31-13, 09:25 PM
DWS has a 50,000 mile warranty. DW's are a Summer tire and don't have a mileage warranty.

In other words, you buy one set every summer? ;)

50,000 miles sounds reasonable.


Fleet cars have the softest ride, rentals, etc. as do the ones with 17" wheels. Do you like automatic high beams? The HUD is a really nicw addition to the Nav, IMHO.

So, this one is about as soft as can get? FE1, with the S-rated Michelin P235/50R17 on the N93 wheels...


I love ACC but not everybody does.

Oh, I think I'd love ACC, but that means finding a 1SG with it. The 1SG I looked at two weeks ago didn't...

I don't think people here like V8s as much as down in the U.S., plus the big price premium, so V8s are rare. Really, these cars are rare generally. There are like 70 advertised in the entire province of Ontario, and most of these don't even have the nav/15-speaker sound system.

Guy.Seminerio
05-31-13, 09:29 PM
believe me you're not missing much without the nav.. it sucks. The 15 speakers on the other hand.. very nice. Even the 2014 CTS which is close to the STS in size only tops out at 13 speakers. It's a very nice sound system.

VivienM
05-31-13, 09:41 PM
believe me you're not missing much without the nav.. it sucks. The 15 speakers on the other hand.. very nice. Even the 2014 CTS which is close to the STS in size only tops out at 13 speakers. It's a very nice sound system.

One thing I've noticed shopping for used cars generally is that very few people seem to get the upgraded sound systems on anything...

One question about the 15 speaker system: will it output sound out of all 15 speakers from an FM radio source? (presumably using some kind of fake 5.1 surround algorithm)

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Oh, one other question about the nav. Does the bluetooth work passably with an iPhone?

EChas3
05-31-13, 09:46 PM
I disagree on the Nav. It works fine with the later map disks & the firmware upgrade.

Most Michelin's are rock-hard after a couple years and dangerous when when it's wet; lose them and the ride will improve regardless of the replacements.

Fleet & rental cars get some or all of the following RPO's:

6LJ - SUSPENSION
7LJ - SUSPENSION COMPONENT
8HC - COMPONENT SUSPENSION
9HC - COMPONENT SUSPENSION
FCH - Or similar
FE1 - 4 WHEEL INDEPENDENT SUSPENSION
FLT - FLEET PROCESSING OPTION
GU2 - AXLE REAR, 2.73 RATIO = > 25 mpg
JJA - PT DRESS SUBASSEMBLY INSTALLED
JJD - I/P SUBASSEMBLY NOT INSTALLED
JJL - SUSPENSION FRONT NOT INSTALLED
JJM - SUSPENSION REAR NOT INSTALLED

1BadCadSTS
05-31-13, 09:51 PM
The v6 burns something much worse than gas, oil. They eat it big time and have timing chain issues. The v6 wouldn't even be an option IMHO.

Guy.Seminerio
05-31-13, 09:55 PM
I have the latest map disc. What is a firmware upgrade. Almost every address I punch in it shoots back the house number does not exist in this street message. Of course it DOES exist. Very frustrating. Good thing google maps and the iPhone are so damn good. Couple that with Bluetooth and I'm straight. I do wish the nav system in the caddy was better though. So what exactly is this firmware upgrade. Is it something the dealer does?

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The v6 burns something much worse than gas, oil. They eat it big time and have timing chain issues. The v6 wouldn't even be an option IMHO.
True and the 8 is reliable.

EChas3
05-31-13, 10:11 PM
The v6 burns something much worse than gas, oil. They eat it big time and have timing chain issues. The v6 wouldn't even be an option IMHO.

I was trying to be impartial but since you broke the ice, I wouldn't keep a V6 STS if you gave me one.

Opinions vary.

Guy.Seminerio
05-31-13, 10:52 PM
Plus the v8 sounds so much more beautiful than the 6. And I've heard both.

curtc
05-31-13, 11:23 PM
One thing I've noticed shopping for used cars generally is that very few people seem to get the upgraded sound systems on anything...

One question about the 15 speaker system: will it output sound out of all 15 speakers from an FM radio source? (presumably using some kind of fake 5.1 surround algorithm)



Yes...and DVD-A or DTS sources sound unbelievable!

Guy.Seminerio
05-31-13, 11:27 PM
What do you use to play surround sound compatible music?

Ludacrisvp
05-31-13, 11:54 PM
What do you use to play surround sound compatible music?
The nav unit plays DVD-A surround sound.

Guy.Seminerio
06-01-13, 12:08 AM
yeah saw that in the other thread but it doesn't seem that's very accessible. I think when I had my XM radio trial I was able to choose the centerpoint option. Also I want to avoid using the cd changer. So dvd-a and XM are pretty much my only choices?

1BadCadSTS
06-01-13, 09:25 AM
I was trying to be impartial but since you broke the ice, I wouldn't keep a V6 STS if you gave me one.

Opinions vary.

What can I say I'm blunt. I don't voice this out of just reading either. Sister has an 05 srx4 3.6 and it drinks oil badly. 3rd set of cats on it cause of it and when it sits for a few days and then starts you can hear the timing chains clattering. Of course only the 07s got extended coverage on the chains, why, only GM can answer that...

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yeah saw that in the other thread but it doesn't seem that's very accessible. I think when I had my XM radio trial I was able to choose the centerpoint option. Also I want to avoid using the cd changer. So dvd-a and XM are pretty much my only choices?

Nav also has a RCA aux input in the center console.

oldcaddybuyer
06-01-13, 10:33 AM
I think so? A couple of reasons:
1) The V8s on the used market here are all 1SGs, which means magnetic ride - the sense I got lurking on this forum is that magnetic ride is extremely costly to maintain?
2) V8 requires premium gas, which is another cost...
3) I'm guessing the V6 burns a lot less gas when it's idling. Traffic here in Toronto is quite awful, so I'm hoping the V6 will be a whole lot more efficient sitting in traffic waiting to turn left?

(Yes, #3 hints at why I'm attracted to this car: I like the ventilated seats and the 15 speaker Bose system for sitting in traffic)

1. Yes, F55 mag ride is costly to repair out of pocket (had it on my 03 Seville, but not on 11 STS)
2. I've heard yes and no on the prem gas...I suspect it would run fine on regular but several have told me otherwise
3. I wouldn't say the V6 burns A LOT less gas...it is slightly more efficient (I average 21-23 mpg commuting, 26-27 on trips)

I too like the ventilated seats and 15 speaker Bose. However, I wish I had found those options on a V8 model when I was looking. I love my STS, but I loathe the ticking noise box under the hood that is the 3.6 DI. IMO it has no business in a STS.

Guy.Seminerio
06-01-13, 11:57 AM
Nav also has a RCA aux input in the center console.
I currently play music with my itouch through the RCA. Specifically it's my headphone jack on the iPod and only 2/3 of the RCA jacks are utilized (not the video). I imagine this isn't sufficient because the files themselves aren't surround sound compatible? I download from iTunes.

curtc
06-01-13, 11:58 AM
yeah saw that in the other thread but it doesn't seem that's very accessible. I think when I had my XM radio trial I was able to choose the centerpoint option. Also I want to avoid using the cd changer. So dvd-a and XM are pretty much my only choices?

DVDs go in the disc changer...And CenterPoint is garbage compared to true Dolby Digital/DTS surround.

Guy.Seminerio
06-01-13, 12:30 PM
I know where DVDs go thanks. I mean its not easy to have a disc or discs with all your songs and they're Dolby surround sound ready. I thought when center point is available you select it to tap into the surround sound. I've been misinformed I guess.

Ludacrisvp
06-01-13, 12:37 PM
Center point is a DSP setting that takes a stereo signal and fakes it into surround sound.

Guy.Seminerio
06-01-13, 12:40 PM
Good to know thanks.

VivienM
06-01-13, 08:04 PM
Okay, I went back to the dealer. Confirmed that it shows the 11340 timing chain warranty on the computer for another 4 years and until 193,000km. Given that, the 3.6L shouldn't be too risky?

(I believe the timing chains fail nicely, too? i.e. you get the P0008 code, and you can get it fixed, rather than having a catastrophic failure at 120km/h on the highway?)

EChas3
06-01-13, 08:52 PM
Great! That's one down.

Over on the CTS forum there are links to a solution to the oil foaming issue. Some 3.6 owners have reported catestrophic oil loss & ring failure. I believe controlling this and checking the level often heads-off any trouble.

Cam and related sensor issues aren't really very common given the number of GM 3.6 V6's produced.

curtc
06-02-13, 11:35 AM
Okay, I went back to the dealer. Confirmed that it shows the 11340 timing chain warranty on the computer for another 4 years and until 193,000km. Given that, the 3.6L shouldn't be too risky?

(I believe the timing chains fail nicely, too? i.e. you get the P0008 code, and you can get it fixed, rather than having a catastrophic failure at 120km/h on the highway?)

Or they could snap while driving 70mph and your entire engine is toast, its happened...

1BadCadSTS
06-02-13, 12:11 PM
Buying a 3.6 is like buying a 96-99 northstar. Sure you can get lucky but odds are you just invested in a mechanics wet dream and your worst nightmare.

orange57
06-02-13, 02:36 PM
2) V8 requires premium gas, which is another cost...


Doesn't require it unless it pings. I find it funny when people make this comment. It is a Caddi after all, a high end luxury automobile, not an economic bucket. Where I am premium is about 20 cents more per gallon than regular. For 15 gallons that is $3 a tank, fill up twice a month or so, so about an extra $72 a year for premium. Doesn't seem to outrageous to me.

VivienM
06-02-13, 06:23 PM
Doesn't require it unless it pings. I find it funny when people make this comment. It is a Caddi after all, a high end luxury automobile, not an economic bucket. Where I am premium is about 20 cents more per gallon than regular. For 15 gallons that is $3 a tank, fill up twice a month or so, so about an extra $72 a year for premium. Doesn't seem to outrageous to me.

Up here, it's about 12 cents per L more... so... about $.50 per US gallon. So, at $1.35/L for premium, say, you'd be talking... $5.11/gal. Not European pricing, but close to $2/gal more than what you're paying?

In any event, the depreciation on these cars is such that they're attracting a very different crowd than the people who could afford to buy them new... (including people like me, i.e. people who might have been able to afford a new one by now had the recession not seriously, seriously cut back their income...)

EChas3
06-02-13, 09:29 PM
Even if the STS purchase price has moderated, repairs & maintenance are still commensurate with original list price; less expensive than the Germans but well above the Toyotas, the other Japanese, and all those Fords & Chevys.

VivienM
06-03-13, 12:27 AM
Even if the STS purchase price has moderated, repairs & maintenance are still commensurate with original list price; less expensive than the Germans but well above the Toyotas, the other Japanese, and all those Fords & Chevys.

Oh, I know... and that's a big part of why I haven't made them an offer on this car yet. They may yet sell it to someone else...

VivienM
06-08-13, 09:35 PM
So, they may have sold that car to someone else, which... is not a huge loss, necessarily.

One other question about this 3.6/chain/etc business: was this an issue with the 2006s too? But GM only extended the warranty on the 2007s? (I'm looking at an ad for a nice-seeming 2006 1SC...)

curtc
06-08-13, 09:43 PM
So, they may have sold that car to someone else, which... is not a huge loss, necessarily.

One other question about this 3.6/chain/etc business: was this an issue with the 2006s too? But GM only extended the warranty on the 2007s? (I'm looking at an ad for a nice-seeming 2006 1SC...)

All 3.6's are susceptible to premature timing chain wear/failure.

KRSTS
06-08-13, 10:20 PM
But GM only extended the warranty on the 2007s?

not true

curtc
06-08-13, 10:27 PM
not true

2005-2006 3.6's received no extended coverage for their timing chains.

1BadCadSTS
06-08-13, 10:39 PM
All 3.6 v6s suffer this.

Ludacrisvp
06-08-13, 10:43 PM
All 3.6 v6s suffer this.

Which is why I would never buy one in the CTS or STS or SRX
V8 only.

Guy.Seminerio
06-08-13, 10:45 PM
I know in 2010 they made a change on the 3.6 in the cts. First of all that year the non direct injected 3.6 was no longer available on the cts. It was either the 3.0 or the 3.6di. And on the latter they corrected the timing chain issue. Did they leave the sts out or did the sts 3.6 di get the change too?

1BadCadSTS
06-08-13, 10:47 PM
I know in 2010 they made a change on the 3.6 in the cts. First of all that year the non direct injected 3.6 was no longer available on the cts. It was either the 3.0 or the 3.6di. And on the latter they corrected the timing chain issue. Did they leave the sts out or did the sts 3.6 di get the change too?

Wrong. 08 got the di for both CTS and STS. GEN 1 SRX never got the di.

Guy.Seminerio
06-08-13, 10:53 PM
Guy I know 08 got the di for the cts. But in 08 and 09 there was such a thing as a 3.6 WITHOUT DI. that's a fact. What I was saying about 2010 is that they dropped the 3.6 non DI as an option for the CTS. That's not debatable it's fact. What is debatable here is whether the changes gm made to the 3.6DI for the CTS in 2010 in order to cure timing chain issues was also applied to 3.6DI in the STS. I think you misunderstood me.

curtc
06-08-13, 10:55 PM
The DI 3.6 in the 08+ STS/CTS is still known to use oil and develop timing chain slack...The head tech at my local GM dealer said they do multiple chain replacements per week, on DI and non-DI 3.6's, and that he would NEVER own one.

Guy.Seminerio
06-08-13, 11:13 PM
Guys look I'm not saying the di or non di 3.6 are different in whether they have issues or not. I don't know how much clearer I can be. In 2010 the timing chain issue was corrected on the cadillac CTS's 3.6L DI engine. What is in question here is whether those changes went into the 3.6 DI engines that went into STSs.

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http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-232007.html
That link is to cts gen 2 model year changes. If you scroll down to 2010 and look at change #9 you'll see the 3.6l di engine was redesigned to address the timing chain issue. Was that change applied to the STS as well? That's what I'm asking.
Also if you look at #7 you'll see what I meant about 2010 being the first year that the 3.6 NON DI engine was no longer an option on the CTS. until that point you could actually get a 3.6 SFI or a 3.6 SIDI. Obviously the SIDI is the one in the STS as well.

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If the change was applied to the STS, then a v6 sts would be safe for 2010 and 2011.

VivienM
06-08-13, 11:48 PM
The DI 3.6 in the 08+ STS/CTS is still known to use oil and develop timing chain slack...The head tech at my local GM dealer said they do multiple chain replacements per week, on DI and non-DI 3.6's, and that he would NEVER own one.

So basically, in an attempt to compete with the Germans, GM created a motor that uses oil like an Audi motor? :)

1BadCadSTS
06-08-13, 11:53 PM
Shoulda bought a V8

VivienM
06-09-13, 01:42 AM
If the change was applied to the STS, then a v6 sts would be safe for 2010 and 2011.

Assuming the change actually worked and didn't have any unintentional side effects...

Guy.Seminerio
06-09-13, 02:14 AM
True. The change is that they went from 2 accessory drive belts to 1 which apparently solves the issue and improves fuel economy. Seeing as how cadillac knew the sts was on its way out and neglected updating certain aspects of it that were updated on other models, I wouldn't be surprised if they just left the sts alone. Ill do some research.

KRSTS
06-09-13, 11:15 AM
2005-2006 3.6's received no extended coverage for their timing chains.

BUT the 08 did! I have one

EChas3
06-09-13, 03:22 PM
There was that TSB somewhere on the STS that really changed the OLM change interval. Did the CTS get that?

I wonder if Cadillac changed that back in 2010...

curtc
06-09-13, 04:25 PM
There was that TSB somewhere on the STS that really changed the OLM change interval. Did the CTS get that?

I wonder if Cadillac changed that back in 2010...

Copyright 2011 General Motors. All Rights Reserved.
Program Bulletin
Bulletin No.:
Date:
10287
February 2011
CUSTOMER SATISFACTION PROGRAM
SUBJECT: Premature Timing Chain Wear – Reprogram Engine Control Module
MODELS: 2009 Buick Enclave
2007-2009 Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS
2009 Chevrolet Traverse
2007 GMC Acadia
2009 GMC Acadia
2007 Saturn OUTLOOK
2009 Saturn OUTLOOK
Equipped with HFV6 Engine
Due to the availability of the required calibration, this program is being administered in phases. This first phase will include the Cadillac vehicles only. You will receive a dealer message when the calibration and VINs are being released for the remainder of the vehicles.
THIS PROGRAM IS IN EFFECT UNTIL FEBRUARY 28, 2013.
CONDITION
On certain 2007 model year GMC Acadia; Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave; Chevrolet Traverse; GMC Acadia; and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles equipped with a HFV6 engine, under certain driving conditions, and with extended oil change intervals, the timing chain could wear prematurely and cause the illumination of the Service Engine Soon light.
CORRECTION
Dealers are to reprogram the engine control module, including the engine oil life monitor.
Page 2 February 2011 Bulletin No.: 10287
VEHICLES INVOLVED
Involved are certain 2007 model year GMC Acadia; Saturn OUTLOOK; 2007-2009 model year Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS; 2009 model year Buick Enclave; Chevrolet Traverse; GMC Acadia; and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles equipped with a HFV6 engine
Important: Dealers are to confirm vehicle eligibility prior to beginning repairs by using the Required Field Actions section in the Global Warranty system.
For dealers with involved vehicles, a listing with involved vehicles containing the complete vehicle identification number, customer name, and address information has been prepared and will be provided to US and Canadian dealers through the GM GlobalConnect Recall Reports, or sent directly to export dealers. Dealers will not have a report available if they have no involved vehicles currently assigned.
The listing may contain customer names and addresses obtained from Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any purpose other than follow-up necessary to complete this program is a violation of law in several states/provinces/countries. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this report to the follow-up necessary to complete this program.
PART INFORMATION
No parts are required for this program.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
Engine Control Module Programming
Do not attempt to order the calibration number from GM Customer Care and Aftersales. The calibration numbers required for this service procedure are programmed into control modules via a Multiple Diagnostic Interface (MDI) or Tech 2® and TIS2WEB with the calibration update. When using a MDI or Tech 2® for reprogramming, ensure that it is updated with the latest software version.
For Cadillac vehicles: Use TIS2WEB on or after 1/9/11 to obtain the calibration. If you cannot access the calibration, call the Techline Customer Support Centre and it will be provided.
For step-by-step programming instructions, please refer to SI and the Techline Information System (TIS) terminal.
1. Capture and record Engine Oil Life information. Write down remaining oil life as a percentage.
2. Verify that there is a battery charge of 12 to 15 volts. The battery must be able to maintain a charge during programming. Only use an approved Midtronics® PSC 550 Battery Maintainer (SPS Programming Support Tool EL-49642) or equivalent to maintain proper battery voltage during programming.
3. Reprogram the engine control module (ECM). Refer to SI and Service Programming System (SPS) documentation for programming instructions, if required.
3.1 Connect the MDI or Tech 2® to the vehicle. If using MDI, connect to programming terminal with the cable (USB or LAN).
Page 3 February 2011 Bulletin No.: 10287
3.2 Select J2534 MDI or J2534 Tech 2® and Reprogram ECU from the Select Diagnostic Tool and Programming Process screen.
3.3 Select ECM Engine Control Module—Programming from the Supported Controllers screen.
3.4 Follow the on-screen instructions.
4. Clear all DTCs using the Tech 2® or GDS.
5. Use a scan tool to reset the Engine Oil Life Remaining back to the original percentage recorded before completing the programming event.
Note: If a programming failure occurs, refer to Engine Control Module Recovery Steps in this bulletin.
Engine Control Module Recovery Steps
1. Disconnect the programming device.
2. Power down the control modules connected to the GMLAN bus by disconnecting the positive battery cable for 2 minutes.
3. Reconnect the positive battery cable.
4. Determine which programming device will be used to perform the recovery steps.
If using MDI, connect to the programming station or Notebook using a cable (LAN). Proceed to Step 5 and then Steps 6-8.
If using a Tech 2® proceed to Steps 6-8.
5. Reboot the programming station or Notebook. This is to make sure nothing is in memory.
Note: Selecting Replace and Reprogram from the Select Diagnostic Tool and Process Screen is REQUIRED because some of the calibrations may be erased from the initial attempt to reprogram the module.
6. Reprogram the engine control module. Select Replace and Reprogram from the Select Diagnostic Tool and Process Screen.
7. Follow the on-screen instructions to complete the programming event.
8. Clear all DTCs using the Tech 2® or GDS.
Note: Repeat Steps 1-8 above IF another programming failure occurs. If the second attempt to reprogram in unsuccessful when following the Steps 1-8 above, then contact Techline Customer Support Centre.
COURTESY TRANSPORTATION – For US and Canada
The General Motors Courtesy Transportation program is intended to minimize customer inconvenience when a vehicle requires a repair that is covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranties. The availability of courtesy transportation to customers whose vehicles are within the warranty coverage period and involved in a product program is very important in maintaining customer satisfaction. Dealers are to ensure that these customers understand that shuttle service or some other form of courtesy transportation is available and will be provided at no charge. Dealers should refer to the General Motors Service Policies and Procedures Manual for Courtesy Transportation guidelines.
Page 4 February 2011 Bulletin No.: 10287
WARRANTY TRANSACTION INFORMATION
Submit a transaction using the table below.
Labour Code
Description
Labour Time
V2385
Reprogram ECM
0.4
CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION – For US and Canada
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CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION – For Export
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Dealers are to service all vehicles subject to this program at no charge to customers, regardless of mileage, age of vehicle, or ownership, through February 28, 2013.
Customers who have recently purchased vehicles sold from your vehicle inventory, and for which there is no customer information indicated on the involved vehicle listing, are to be contacted by the dealer. Arrangements are to be made to make the required correction according to the instructions contained in this bulletin. A copy of the customer letter is provided in this bulletin for your use in contacting customers. Program follow-up cards should not be used for this purpose, since the customer may not as yet have received the notification letter.
In summary, whenever a vehicle subject to this program enters your vehicle inventory, or is in your facility for service through February 28, 2013, you must take the steps necessary to be sure the program correction has been made before selling or releasing the vehicle.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the tools, equipment, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.We Support Voluntary Technician Certification

Guy.Seminerio
06-09-13, 11:16 PM
The bulletin is published in 2011 and only covers engines up to 2009. This leads me to believe the engine design change for 2010 was done across all of GM cars that had the engine. One good way to confirm is a look at the 2010+ owners manuals compared to a 2009. There is a section in the manual that shows a drive belt diagram for all available engines. Ill take a look.

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It's the engine drive belt routing. Looks the same.

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Ok don't go by that the 2010 and 2009 cts manuals show the same too. Bottom line here is that someone looking for a used STS can feel confident in the reliability of the V6 as long as they go 2010+. Of course if you ask me, go v8 or go home. Honestly the fuel economy penalty is not enough to sway me to the 6. That was my logic when I originally purchased my 07 STS V8 which I've since sold.

VivienM
06-10-13, 12:35 AM
Of course if you ask me, go v8 or go home. Honestly the fuel economy penalty is not enough to sway me to the 6. That was my logic when I originally purchased my 07 STS V8 which I've since sold.

The thing is, V8s can be far more scarce in some places than in others. e.g. around here, the vast majority of the used ones I see advertised are V6s without the nav/5.1 system. A few 1SGs here and there, but those were $90K new.

I suspect a lot more V8s were sold in the U.S. market.

turnne
06-10-13, 07:44 AM
Even if the STS purchase price has moderated, repairs & maintenance are still commensurate with original list price; less expensive than the Germans but well above the Toyotas, the other Japanese, and all those Fords & Chevys.

not accurate...the same systems and maintenance are about the same cost on the germans...I am talking BMW 5 series and Mercedes E class

I have never owned a Lexus or Infiniti...so I cant speak to their repair and maintenance costs

We all the know list price of these cars vs the depreciation curve is going to take a toll on what the market is willing to invest in maintenance and repairs on an STS. That has remained consistent and has been a malady that Cadillac has had for years...though it seems the CTS has done considerably better than any Cadillac sedan in retaining resale


Warren

Guy.Seminerio
06-10-13, 09:59 AM
The thing is, V8s can be far more scarce in some places than in others. e.g. around here, the vast majority of the used ones I see advertised are V6s without the nav/5.1 system. A few 1SGs here and there, but those were $90K new.

I suspect a lot more V8s were sold in the U.S. market.

Yeah I gotcha. So if you're not going to take a long trip to pick up a v8 then 6 it is. But you'll love the 15 speaker Bose I'm telling you.

EChas3
06-10-13, 08:25 PM
Yeah I gotcha. So if you're not going to take a long trip to pick up a v8 then 6 it is. But you'll love the 15 speaker Bose I'm telling you.

For me it was the ACC.

Guy.Seminerio
06-10-13, 10:12 PM
Nice. Yeah my sts didn't have acc or HUD. The v has HUD but you can't get acc with the v. The HUD is pretty nice. I would've loved to see how the acc interacted with the HUD.

curtc
06-10-13, 10:27 PM
Nice. Yeah my sts didn't have acc or HUD. The v has HUD but you can't get acc with the v. The HUD is pretty nice. I would've loved to see how the acc interacted with the HUD.

It doesn't, except an annoying little car icon that flashes on/off all the time...ACC rocks though!

Guy.Seminerio
06-10-13, 10:37 PM
Gotcha gotcha. Also the manual says that the HUD is supposed to tell you which direction to turn when you have a route going but it doesn't do that in my car. I assumed it was only if you have acc.

Ludacrisvp
06-10-13, 10:43 PM
Your Nav should do that. It doesn't rely on having acc.
You see gap information and car detected and collision avoidance indicator / alarm. Interactions from acc include Desired cruise speed, actual speed and if you are using the pedal to override the cruise control. Also the indicator that you are using cruise is no longer active on the dashboard and the only indicator is in the HUD. You are also unable to change to a non acc cruise mode like some adaptive systems allow.

Guy.Seminerio
06-11-13, 11:48 AM
In order to have forward collision alert you need to have acc. Yeah all those features you described that show up on the HUD don't show up on mine at all. I'm getting my windows tinted right now so ill use the nav to get home and see if the directions show up on the HUD but I've never seen the directions show up in the past.

Ludacrisvp
06-11-13, 12:08 PM
I was going to take a quick video of the ways the HUD works in mine before work but my new phone (HTC One) wasn't in the mood to see the HUD. I guess I'll have to use the iPhone4 to do it.
I'll look at taking one after work if you would like to see how it goes, I could even do the navigation things if you want.

Guy.Seminerio
06-11-13, 01:58 PM
The nav is the big thing for me. I just used the nav on the way home and sure enough, no directions given in the HUD. Is it maybe only if the sound is off? Or maybe it is in fact an acc only thing.

Ludacrisvp
06-11-13, 02:17 PM
Mine shows up regardless of the sound settings. I muted mine since I can see it in the HUD, no need to interrupt the music.

Ludacrisvp
06-11-13, 05:39 PM
Here is a video I've uploaded to youtube.
its about 10 minutes long and shows how the HUD interacts with the Nav unit and ACC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqNf4Xtzyyg

At the time of this writing 4:40PM Central USA time YouTube predicts the video will be ready in about 20 mins.

Edit:
It has completed and is available in 720p HD.

EChas3
06-11-13, 09:14 PM
I like ACC's HUD car proximity image. It reminds me to change lanes to pass slow traffic.

Guy, Get your HUD fixed. The Nav integration is a winner.

Guy.Seminerio
06-11-13, 11:27 PM
Yeah I gotta get that looked at. Crap. I have bad Internet right now but I got the jist of it. Looks like it even gives directions in manual shifting mode. I actually took it out of that mode to see if the directions would show because I thought it might not show in manual mode. Damn. Ok.

turnne
06-12-13, 08:47 AM
Here is a video I've uploaded to youtube.
its about 10 minutes long and shows how the HUD interacts with the Nav unit and ACC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqNf4Xtzyyg

At the time of this writing 4:40PM Central USA time YouTube predicts the video will be ready in about 20 mins.

Edit:
It has completed and is available in 720p HD.

did they improve the display in later models?

I dont think I have some of the graphics you have...specifically what looks like a tachometer

I never use the Nav or voice activation on mine as I dont either works well...especially the voice activation

were those improve in the newer cars?....and did the newer cars actually have a system that brakes when it noticed proximity to a car in front of it..or just beep?

I have an 05...and mine just beeps...though I did test drive an Acura RL years ago that actually would brake the car

I just turn the little "beeping car" icon off


Warren

Ludacrisvp
06-12-13, 02:41 PM
did they improve the display in later models?

I dont think I have some of the graphics you have...specifically what looks like a tachometer

I never use the Nav or voice activation on mine as I dont either works well...especially the voice activation

were those improve in the newer cars?....and did the newer cars actually have a system that brakes when it noticed proximity to a car in front of it..or just beep?

I have an 05...and mine just beeps...though I did test drive an Acura RL years ago that actually would brake the car

I just turn the little "beeping car" icon off

Warren

I believe the HUD was the same for all years of the STS.
The tach comes up when you are in Sport mode and manual shift mode.
The little red beeping car icon / box comes up with ACC equipped cars only.
It does _not_ apply brakes it just alerts you, also when ACC slows you down below about 25/26/27 miles per hour it will alarm as well to basically warn you to take over.
I have had the car bring me to a complete stop on occasion via the cruise control braking system.

The only way to turn off the front collision avoidance alarm is to disable the adaptive cruise system or turn off the HUD (which also disables the adaptive cruise system).
Sometimes the FCA icon will blink slowly and not be an audible alarm, this happens to me on occasion when someone cuts me off in traffic or if I'm not using cruise (but the cruise switch is active) and just following too close.

EChas3
06-12-13, 08:22 PM
My ACC won't stop the car. It will disengage at 15mph.

Ludacrisvp
06-12-13, 08:27 PM
The manual warns that it will disengage as well but mine has done it a few times coming off of freeway (I was prepared in case it didn't bring me to a stop).

turnne
06-12-13, 09:01 PM
I believe the HUD was the same for all years of the STS.
The tach comes up when you are in Sport mode and manual shift mode.
The little red beeping car icon / box comes up with ACC equipped cars only.
It does _not_ apply brakes it just alerts you, also when ACC slows you down below about 25/26/27 miles per hour it will alarm as well to basically warn you to take over.
I have had the car bring me to a complete stop on occasion via the cruise control braking system.

The only way to turn off the front collision avoidance alarm is to disable the adaptive cruise system or turn off the HUD (which also disables the adaptive cruise system).
Sometimes the FCA icon will blink slowly and not be an audible alarm, this happens to me on occasion when someone cuts me off in traffic or if I'm not using cruise (but the cruise switch is active) and just following too close.

My car is an 05 with ACC and HUD...actually a 1SG AWD

I have never driven the car in sport mode...so that is maybe the reason I haven't seen the tach on the HUD

On my car I can switch off the collision avoidance icon( which I always do)...but I think I can still use the ACC

Maybe I need to check...I never use the cruise or the Nav and honestly haven't driven the car much in the past couple of years
I think I put 800 miles on it in all of 2012

I was thinking Cadillac had a collision avoidance system,....which applies brakes and keeps you in your lane in the later STS's


Warren

EChas3
06-12-13, 10:21 PM
In my 2006 1SG, the driver can't have ACC on while disabling the collision alarm; an audio & red HUD warning that is not muted by normal audion settings. It is merely an alarm and actuates no control systems.

Later STS has Blind Spot and maybe Lane Departure warnings but I think they stayed away from anything active; excepting MRC & Active Steering.

Ludacrisvp
06-12-13, 10:34 PM
In my 2006 1SG, the driver can't have ACC on while disabling the collision alarm; an audio & red HUD warning that is not muted by normal audion settings. It is merely an alarm and actuates no control systems.

Later STS has Blind Spot and maybe Lane Departure warnings but I think they stayed away from anything active; excepting MRC & Active Steering.
occasionally mine will not be audible but flash slowly.

Blind spot and lane departure are just passive systems, flashing lights for both and beeping on the appropriate side for lane departure unless you have the correct turn signal on or are traveling below 25mph or the system is unable to see the lane lines.

turnne
06-13-13, 06:49 AM
In my 2006 1SG, the driver can't have ACC on while disabling the collision alarm; an audio & red HUD warning that is not muted by normal audion settings. It is merely an alarm and actuates no control systems.

Later STS has Blind Spot and maybe Lane Departure warnings but I think they stayed away from anything active; excepting MRC & Active Steering.

active steering?

So I guess GM just came out with the active braking safety systems...as I know they are available now

Another omission I never understood on the STS was the lack of HID Hi beams...or the adaptive lighting feature that helps around turns


Warren