: Tuner specced me a cam-- what'll she make?



HAMSTAR
05-30-13, 09:41 PM
Car is an 06 with LS2, 1 7/8 headers, hi-flow cats, stock pipes with magnaflow straight-thru muffs. Also has an ATI Super Damper and Lingenfelter air box. Everything else is stock.

I just sat down with my tuner Jeff Lowry and went over all the details of my car and how I use it. Since I feel like the car already has enough torque down low to break traction on demand, we went for a cam that gives strong mid range and top end, without sacrificing down low. The cam should start to pull around 2500-3000 RPM. We will also raise the limiter to about 6800-7000 (final limit to be determined during the tune).

The cam specs are 228/236 111+3. He specced moderate lift lobes (.595/.598) that would be kind to the valvetrain and promote valvetrain stability that would result in more stability at high RPM.

Install and dyno will be next week. So, let's have some guesses on max TQ and HP? Where in the rev band do you think she'll peak HP and TQ?

DMM
05-30-13, 10:09 PM
Did your tuner spec the cam or did Martin? Our V1's are horrible on the dyno, but I would guess around 390/380. Your intake will be holding you back...the LS2 intake flows horribly.

HAMSTAR
05-30-13, 10:18 PM
I was gonna go with Martin but my tuner turned up after being AWOL. I was gonna go with Martin's 227/235 110+3 cam but decided on a custom cam with my tuner instead.

----------

Oh and in fact the cam is designed with an eventual FAST102 in mind.

DMM
05-30-13, 10:33 PM
With that much duration you could have gone with a little more lift for a few more hp (since you will still have to check valve springs down the road) and still used a mild lobe. It'll sound awesome at idle!

HAMSTAR
05-30-13, 10:40 PM
We discussed that at length. He believes high lift isn't neccessary. He believes you get more power from a more stable valve train and springs that don't bounce around when the release, etc.

For check, he reccommends we put it on the dyno every year or two to make sure everything looks good and there isn't any float, etc.

FuzzyLogic
05-30-13, 10:49 PM
You'll crest 400 RWHP. Beyond that, I can't say.

HAMSTAR
05-30-13, 10:57 PM
Fuzzy and DMM first to chime in. Means I'm gonna make big power.

DMM
05-30-13, 11:05 PM
You'll crest 400 RWHP. Beyond that, I can't say.

I would absolutely agree if we were talking about anything other than a V1. Our cars have always dyno'd crappy compared to everything else. Makes predicting numbers hard.

A dyno is not an accurate tool for checking valve springs...pull the cover and rockers and test them on the car.

FuzzyLogic
05-30-13, 11:20 PM
I would absolutely agree if we were talking about anything other than a V1. Our cars have always dyno'd crappy compared to everything else. Makes predicting numbers hard.

A dyno is not an accurate tool for checking valve springs...pull the cover and rockers and test them on the car.

I did 422 RWHP / 383 RWTQ with a Lingenfelter intake, Volant tube, Kooks 6760-FC cats, Magnaflow, stock heads, stock thermostat, no catch can, and the TRuTorq L3 cam (223/236 .612/.610 115 LSA) on a 87F/97% humidity day (so humid that we could see our breath, despite the temperature) at Slowhawk (Mustang Dyno) after five runs with no more than 60 seconds cooldown between runs. I also had:

- Heavy 470 in-lb Comp 26926 dual valvesprings (grossly overrated for the cam)
- Heavy 15W-40 motor oil, 3 quarts D4 ATF / 1 quart MTL 70W80 transmission oil, 75W-140 differential oil

Don thought that I'd do significantly better with a better intake tube (which I've added) and filter, plus a 160 degree thermostat and a couple of miscellaneous tweaks. I'd love to take it back on a less humid day with the LSA heads that I've got sitting here, but I want to wait until after I install the 416 CID LS3. It'll be a whole new machine by then.

VscharesV
05-31-13, 03:03 AM
I have very similar mods as you and I just had PatG spec a cam for me with EPS lobes and its 230/232 .629 .629 113+4 LSA. I ordered BTR dual springs w/ti retainers. But I wonder why he speced mine with so much lift. Im interested to see what you put down, im hoping 415+whp

darkman
05-31-13, 07:52 AM
I have very similar mods as you and I just had PatG spec a cam for me with EPS lobes and its 230/232 .629 .629 113+4 LSA. I ordered BTR dual springs w/ti retainers. But I wonder why he speced mine with so much lift. Im interested to see what you put down, im hoping 415+whp

I would ask PatG that question, since others can only speculate. But if you want others to speculate, they would at least need to know everything you put on the custom cam form such as other modifications, intended use, and preferences (including the lift limitation you requested, if any.).

HAMSTAR
05-31-13, 08:33 AM
I have very similar mods as you and I just had PatG spec a cam for me with EPS lobes and its 230/232 .629 .629 113+4 LSA. I ordered BTR dual springs w/ti retainers. But I wonder why he speced mine with so much lift. Im interested to see what you put down, im hoping 415+whp

I agree with darkman on asking Pat G. The lift profile is designed to work with the valvesprings and love choice. I'm sure he has thought it all through but just has a different approach than my tuner. I wouldn't be worried, a long as the total combination is coordinated.

Naf
05-31-13, 08:42 AM
Why not change the heads for some ported ones.

That will help u gain across the board.

I had 5.7 with gmpp high compression heads, lpe gt11, 1 3/4 headers high flow cats with corsa exhaust, lpe intake kit with 25% ud pulley from ati and made 425hp and 400lbft at the rear

VscharesV
05-31-13, 08:47 AM
I trust him completely that's why I ordered it. Ham just said it isn't necessary, and I was wondering why. I have port n polished ls6 heads, Obx 1 7/8 headers (no cats), magnaflow catback, k&n cai, BTR dual springs and BTR push rods. As far as use, the strip a couple of times a year and to drive when its nice out.

HAMSTAR
05-31-13, 12:11 PM
No doubt. I just can't afford it right now. The cam will give me a powerboner that will last a year or so, and then it will be time for either heads or FAST 102.


Why not change the heads for some ported ones.

That will help u gain across the board.

I had 5.7 with gmpp high compression heads, lpe gt11, 1 3/4 headers high flow cats with corsa exhaust, lpe intake kit with 25% ud pulley from ati and made 425hp and 400lbft at the rear

trukk
05-31-13, 12:36 PM
You will absolutely 1000% need to swap out your stock squeeze tube. That will be significantly holding you back once the cam is in.

-Chris

thebigjimsho
05-31-13, 09:18 PM
You will absolutely 1000% need to swap out your stock squeeze tube. That will be significantly holding you back once the cam is in.

-Chris

Stop talking dirty.

HAMSTAR
05-31-13, 10:25 PM
You will absolutely 1000% need to swap out your stock squeeze tube. That will be significantly holding you back once the cam is in.

-Chris

Gonna pick up a silicone 4" elbow, 4" pipe, 4" to 3" reducer and clamps tomorrow.

HAMSTAR
05-31-13, 10:27 PM
You will absolutely 1000% need to swap out your stock squeeze tube. That will be significantly holding you back once the cam is in.

-Chris

Gonna pick up a silicone 4" elbow, 4" pipe, 4" to 3" reducer and clamps tomorrow.

FuzzyLogic
05-31-13, 11:02 PM
Gonna pick up a silicone 4" elbow, 4" pipe, 4" to 3" reducer and clamps tomorrow.

I was going to say...if you're going in on that, you might as well do carbon fiber. I'm still planning on dumping all three of my intake tube designs and doing a solid 4.0" ID tube.

HAMSTAR
05-31-13, 11:30 PM
I was going to say...if you're going in on that, you might as well do carbon fiber. I'm still planning on dumping all three of my intake tube designs and doing a solid 4.0" ID tube.

WRT CF, it's a matter if return on investment. The air moves through the pipe so fast that it isn't affected by the heat of the pipe. The temp sensor is another story, and I will eventually get to sensor relocate to the filter, as you have done.

odthetruth
06-01-13, 06:08 AM
Install and dyno will be next week. So, let's have some guesses on max TQ and HP? Where in the rev band do you think she'll peak HP and TQ?

413rwhp \ 376rwtq

FuzzyLogic
06-01-13, 11:14 AM
WRT CF, it's a matter if return on investment. The air moves through the pipe so fast that it isn't affected by the heat of the pipe. The temp sensor is another story, and I will eventually get to sensor relocate to the filter, as you have done.

I'm not talking about the heat rise (which is typically between 0.7 - 1.3 degrees F). I'm talking about the structural strength. Silicone tubing is very pliable and will not hold up to forced induction. Carbon fiber tubing is about 50% stronger than aluminum and 75% of the weight.

HAMSTAR
06-01-13, 11:22 AM
Oh yeah I'm going with Al. Can't justify the cost of carbon fiber.

sssnake
06-01-13, 01:16 PM
I'm not talking about the heat rise (which is typically between 0.7 - 1.3 degrees F). I'm talking about the structural strength. Silicone tubing is very pliable and will not hold up to forced induction. Carbon fiber tubing is about 50% stronger than aluminum and 75% of the weight.

With the short nature of the run and the complex shapes (two rather awkward turns) necessary for the Eforce on our cars I am not sure rigidity will be an issue. I'm not even sure that you will be able to utilize a CF tube on the intake because of mounting difficulties. I would hold off on the CF until you get it put together with your existing silicone tubes.

FuzzyLogic
06-01-13, 01:29 PM
With the short nature of the run and the complex shapes (two rather awkward turns) necessary for the Eforce on our cars I am not sure rigidity will be an issue. I'm not even sure that you will be able to utilize a CF tube on the intake because of mounting difficulties. I would hold off on the CF until you get it put together with your existing silicone tubes.

Definitely the smart approach.

HAMSTAR
06-01-13, 02:42 PM
Ok, I have the new 4" tube and parts. What's the best way to connect te stock 4" PCV tube to the new DIY aluminum pipe? I have a mightymouse catch can on order but probably won't get it till after the tune and install. I would like to just use the 1/4" ID OEM tube.

I know I need a nipple of some sort. What should I ask for at Home Depot? Also, what's te best way to fix/adhere the nipple to the pipe?

Thanks!

odthetruth
06-02-13, 09:59 PM
I used something similar to this:
http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/regulator/component/1319070_threaded_nipple_left.shtml?CAWELAID=137212 9114&catargetid=1553582277&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CLqhmOrkxrcCFYed4AodgUUAHA
but it was a 90 degree bent one.
Sealed around it from the outside with RTV gasket maker.

HAMSTAR
06-15-13, 10:36 PM
Here's a quick vid I took to show off the idle. I pop the hood, too, so you can see the valvetrain is quiet as a mouse. I did a little driving today, and this cam is deceptively smooth. I can break traction in third gear now just by stomping it-- that is definitely new. It's also obvious I'm going to have to relearn how to drive it somewhat, since the power band has changed so significantly. We'll find out exactly how next week.

2006 CTS-V LS2 cammed idle vid - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3yG1haT_Z8)

You may notice the stock intake tube is still on there. That's because we ran out of time to work on the DIY intake. We're going to press it into a slight oval shape where it passes the PS pulley. Hopefully it will pick up some more with the wider intake tube.

Oh yeah, and my engine bay, not to mention my car, is dirty as ****. Just got it back from the shop. Gonna take it for a bath later.

BigDaddy-V
06-16-13, 07:27 AM
That sounds pretty quiet with that size cam! I am sure the WOT isn't that quiet but look forward to some further videos and sound clips!

BDV

HAMSTAR
06-16-13, 08:32 AM
The sound is a deep bass note. I can't hear it in my laptop speakers, I have to put on headphones. But yes, it is WAY more civilized than I thought it would be, and perfect for me. The stock resonated x pipe really keeps the rasp down. It really fits the character of the car.

BigDaddy-V
06-16-13, 08:51 AM
I have been running cam specs in my head for a year since I bought the car and when I do it I am thinking about going 220/224 with a 114 lsa and under 600 lift like maybe 580 or so. Want to keep it quiet and calm and keep the semi sleeper thing going. Looking at a lot of the texas speed cams is wwhere I got my numbers and reading reviews of what others have done. I want more than stock but not nuts! Yours was nice and look forward to your numbers!

BDV

carlson_mn
06-19-13, 10:27 PM
Hamstar how is the power curve compared to stock? Ups and downs compared to... ? Thanks

HAMSTAR
06-20-13, 08:58 AM
Hamstar how is the power curve compared to stock? Ups and downs compared to... ? Thanks

This is tentative as it's not been dyno tuned yet, only street tuned. This is really a mid range and top end cam. My driving style so far has been to rely on bottom end torque, so I am relearning my style. It is aboit the same frlm 2k RPM, starts breakif from stok at 3k, then screams from 4K and up.

My tuner has said this cam needs air and he wasn't kidding. I felt a noticeable gain after I swapped out the stock intake tube for 4 inch. We are expecting a big gain once I get a FAST 102.

Due to the overlap, cruising in a low gear with idle revs doesn't work well any more. If you creep around in cities, this is a consideration.

carlson_mn
06-23-13, 12:51 AM
Thanks dude. Yeah I'm cruising in the cities all the time as my DD so I like to hear from people that go with another style of cam. I definitely enjoy cruising in that 1200-1500rpm range smoothly so I think I really enjoy the stock cam.

Blown_Red_97z
06-23-13, 02:31 PM
I really like the sound seems nice and calm. Does it buck if your rpm is too low? Stock you can basically let the car drive itself with no gas. My last gto had a large hpe s2 cam that hated low rpm. How's your car with that cam?

HAMSTAR
06-23-13, 05:56 PM
I really like the sound seems nice and calm. Does it buck if your rpm is too low? Stock you can basically let the car drive itself with no gas. My last gto had a large hpe s2 cam that hated low rpm. How's your car with that cam?

Yes, but the bucking is very slight. Nothing like my friend's car, which has a MS4 style cam.

Honestly, the sound is really down to the exhaust. Right now, it's a little loud for me. I may go back to stock muffs and add e cutouts.

HAMSTAR
06-27-13, 06:21 PM
Dyno today. Peak 403/371, SAE corrected. Broad, flat, torque curve, just like I wanted.

Lessons from dyno run: Low pressure in intake plenum tells us she needs a FAST. That will be next. Clutch is slipping-- LS7 with lightweight flywheel will happen sooner rather than later (before the FAST). I look forward to being able to wind her up faster.

http://i.imgur.com/EomI33P.jpg

BigDaddy-V
06-27-13, 10:11 PM
Iwas just thinking to myself today that I hadn't seen any numbers yet! Good timing and great numbers! I can't wait till I get to do mine! I bet your MPGs go down a little bit now! Hehehe!

BDV

DMM
06-27-13, 10:31 PM
Congrats my man! I hope you enjoy driving it. We have got to get a MD/VA meet together soon! I was pretty close at 390/380 BTW...

I just took my flywheel/clutch out for the McLeod RXT. I don't know what flywheel it is but it's lightweight aluminum with replaceable friction surface and set up as a direct replacement for the dual mass to reinstall everything with the OE slave cylinder. Pretty sure you want to go new with the LS7 everything, but thought I'd throw it out there if you have a pain in your right rear hip pocket area from all the mods you just had done.

HAMSTAR
06-28-13, 10:57 AM
Congrats my man! I hope you enjoy driving it. We have got to get a MD/VA meet together soon! I was pretty close at 390/380 BTW...

I just took my flywheel/clutch out for the McLeod RXT. I don't know what flywheel it is but it's lightweight aluminum with replaceable friction surface and set up as a direct replacement for the dual mass to reinstall everything with the OE slave cylinder. Pretty sure you want to go new with the LS7 everything, but thought I'd throw it out there if you have a pain in your right rear hip pocket area from all the mods you just had done.

Thanks, man, I appreciate the offer. Yeah, I'd like to go with a new everything LS7 setup...

Absolutely on the VA/MD meet. Any dates that work for you?