: Coolant changed to green... problem?



rithban
01-24-05, 06:47 PM
I'll attempt to condense a long story into something manageable.

I have a used 96 SLS w/ 104k miles that has given me overheating fits to no end, getting worse and worse until I couldn't drive a mile to the store and back without overheating. Four dealers, two water pumps, thermostats, a recommendation to just replace the enginge... in short nothing but guesses and mega $$$ out the pocket... and a car that can't run in the driveway without overheating. :mad:

After giving up and letting the car sit for a year I had it towed to a shop that we've come to trust; so far they've been able to fix things once and for all the first time on our other cars.

They found the radiator leaking along with gunk in it, checked everything else over with a fine-toothed comb but couldn't turn up any explanation for the mysterious overheating. After replacing the radiator they said that a previous owner was mixing the regular green coolant with the orange, which I know is a no-no. We put a lot of orange DEX through it while the car barfed it on the road when it overheated. :(

The shop flushed the cooling system and filled it with green coolant, saying that they didn't think that once the green had been used that one should go back to the orange collant. The car's been performing like a dream since! :thumbsup:

After reading abit about coolants and about the why one doesn't mix them, I'm just curious about whether the aluminum engine will be OK in the long term with the green -- assuming that the car is otherwise maintained regularly. (I take our cars to the local Jiffy Lube religiously. I'm a clutz around mechanical devices and hate mucking with them myself more than I have to.)

So, I'm not inclined to do anything unless I'm asking for Big Trouble keeping the green coolant in. AFAIK It ain't broke and i don't wanna fix it.

BeelzeBob
01-24-05, 06:59 PM
Sounds like that shop has their act together.

They are correct. One the system is heavily contaminated with the green coolant the DexCool looses it's long life capability. You will have to change the coolant every 2-3 years/24-32K miles from now on regardless of whether you use the green coolant or the DexCool. Either will protect the engine equally well...just the DexCool's corrosion protection will last much longer (5 years/100K) than the green stuff in an otherwise unmolested or uncontaminated system. Since you will need to change it frequently from now on anyway, use the green stuff. It works great and will protect the engine fine and is less expensive.

Why not use this shop for maintenance instead of just for repair. It might be a little more inconvenient than Jiffy Lube and a little more expensive...but...the good will created by giving them your business will pay dividends when you need other work done.... Besides, they get to know you better doing the routine maintenance and know what is going on with the car so if/when there is a more major problem you and they are in a better position going in. Since they sound like they know what they are doing I would solicite them instead of the Jiffy Lube....at least you have someone knowlegeable doing the maintenance...

rithban
01-24-05, 07:12 PM
Ahhh... I appreciate the insight!


Why not use this shop for maintenance instead of just for repair.
Hmmm... well... uh... it never crossed my mind.

Sounds like a great idea since I hope to keep the car running for a good long time. I'll ask them about it.

Thanks!

cadillactech
01-24-05, 08:02 PM
Dex cool is likely the worst thing GM ever put in a cooling system. You did well by going back to the old standard ( green ). Just don't forget to change it occasionally.

68l89
01-24-05, 08:26 PM
Yes this is true the orange stuff is nasty it will eat up your engine............I have replaced it on my sclade and dts..................

shookman34
01-24-05, 08:30 PM
Hmmm...this has got me wondering now.....I have the small coolant leak from the water pump area that some others have been talking about here.....mine's leaking green antifreeze...this is on a '97 STS.

BeelzeBob
01-24-05, 10:45 PM
Dex cool is likely the worst thing GM ever put in a cooling system. You did well by going back to the old standard ( green ). Just don't forget to change it occasionally.


This is BS. DexCool is an excellent product that has shown excellent service in the field. The problems that people have had with it have been clearly identified as being caused by operating the sytems low on coolant in cast iron engines. The DexCool is not to blame for damage due to low coolant operation by the owner....

In other cases of internal engine damage and cooling system problems with DexCool the owners were running nearly straight DexCool in the system...it was no diluted 50/50 as clearly specified.

In all aluminum engines that need extra corrosion protection the DexCool provides superior protection basically for the life of the cooling system.....this protects the second and third owners from accepting the results of the earlier owners lack of cooling system maintenance as has happened with the 93/94/95 Northstars quite commonly.

If the DexCool is so "bad" just how are all those millions and millions of cars and trucks with it in the cooling systems running around perfectly fine and happy...???

I don't know where you are getting your facts from but the rumors about DexCool you are starting are wrong.

BeelzeBob
01-24-05, 10:48 PM
Yes this is true the orange stuff is nasty it will eat up your engine............I have replaced it on my sclade and dts..................



Absolute complete BS. What on earth evidence do you have that the DexCool is "nasty" and will "eat up your engine..??""

If you run straight DexCool it will damage the cooling system, yes. That is why it is CLEARLY specified to be used at 50/50 mix ratios. If used correctly it is a superior product that offers excellent corrosoin protection for very long periods of time.

The conventional, green silicated coolant will not hurt anything and will offer excellent corrosion protection also but it must be changed frequently as the corrosion protection dimenishes fairly rapidly. If you are going to service the cooling system frequently then the green stuff is fine.

BeelzeBob
01-24-05, 10:50 PM
Hmmm...this has got me wondering now.....I have the small coolant leak from the water pump area that some others have been talking about here.....mine's leaking green antifreeze...this is on a '97 STS.

Then someone put the wrong stuff in the cooling system.....You'll have to service the cooling system every 2-3 years/24-32K miles to keep the corrosion inhibitor package in the coolant fresh.

mechanix
01-25-05, 11:37 AM
On the green vs. orange debate - I am not very familiar with the new, low silicate Dexcool, so my opinion is an unqualified one. I don't know which is better for aluminum engines. But for what it's worth, my radiator shop man has been in the business longer than some of us have been alive, and I respect his opinion when he tells me that he is seeing far more radiator damage with the orange stuff than he has previously seen with the green stuff.

dkozloski
01-25-05, 12:34 PM
Why don't the manufacturers develope an active anode system. You see aluminum outboard motors that operate for years in salt water without serious problems. it seems to me it would be easy to retrofit older cars with something like this. The hot water heater in my house has magnesium anodes to protect the tank and it seems to work. The city water here is just like the well was drilled into a dead dinosaur. Engineers can sometimes get wrapped around the axle designing something for a utopian world while we're out here in reality. In the electronics world it is the norm to design for worse case conditions. An answer here is to design the cooling system for swamp water. Some diesel engines cool with engine oil in what would normally be the water jacket. They even run the oil through the heater core,

BeelzeBob
01-25-05, 03:04 PM
On the green vs. orange debate - I am not very familiar with the new, low silicate Dexcool, so my opinion is an unqualified one. I don't know which is better for aluminum engines. But for what it's worth, my radiator shop man has been in the business longer than some of us have been alive, and I respect his opinion when he tells me that he is seeing far more radiator damage with the orange stuff than he has previously seen with the green stuff.


Ask him if the radiators are the OEM parts that were factory filled with DexCool or other applications. Just curious.

We see just the opposite. Heater cores, radiators, water pump seals are all better long term with the DexCool if used correctly.

There is always the issue of the concentration. If people do not dilute the DexCool 50/50 it certainly can be harmful to the system.

Also, many non-GM radiators and heater cores are NOT DexCool compatible....so if it is retrofitted into other applications it can cause harm.

Used correctly it is an excellent product with near lifetime corrosion protection.

BeelzeBob
01-25-05, 03:06 PM
Why don't the manufacturers develope an active anode system. You see aluminum outboard motors that operate for years in salt water without serious problems. it seems to me it would be easy to retrofit older cars with something like this. The hot water heater in my house has magnesium anodes to protect the tank and it seems to work. The city water here is just like the well was drilled into a dead dinosaur. Engineers can sometimes get wrapped around the axle designing something for a utopian world while we're out here in reality. In the electronics world it is the norm to design for worse case conditions. An answer here is to design the cooling system for swamp water. Some diesel engines cool with engine oil in what would normally be the water jacket. They even run the oil through the heater core,


Those systems are in open cooling or water systems. I am not sure how you would passivate a closed system like an automotive cooling system like that.....

Hot water heating systems that are closed do not have a passivated system with a mag anode like you describe....wonder why??

dkozloski
01-25-05, 05:33 PM
The problem is that an automotive cooling system is not closed. There is a vent on the overflow that oxygenates the coolant. I think that the old systems that had the expansion space in the top tank actually did a better job of keeping the atmosphere away from the coolant. The hydronic heating system in my home has been operating with plain water for almost sixty years. Any time I have opened it up for modifications or maintenance it has been as clean as a hounds tooth and it is all plumbed out of black iron pipe. Why not truly seal the automotive systems with an expansion tank with a bladder and a safety valve to prevent dangerous explosions. In fact there is a little voice rattling around in my head telling me that there used to be sealed automotive systems years ago with no vent at all.

cadillactech
01-25-05, 08:18 PM
Well, BBOB, my experience comes from 18 years working in a GM dealership, 21 years working on cars in general. I have seen first hand the damage that dex cool does. You can say what you want about it being "all that" but I would never run that garbage in ANY of my personal vehicles. In a ethylene glycol system, properly serviced, the only "bad guy" in the system is the mineral deposits in the tap water that you mixed the antifreeze with. If you use distilled water ( and I do ) you eliminate that problem. So, all you have to do is change it every 30k or so. BIG DEAL! My cooling system will last for years! With a propylene glycol system ( dex cool ) I dont care if you use distilled water or not! That stuff turns to funk after a while. In all fairness, maybe if you changed it like it was the green stuff ( every 30k ) it might not be as bad. But leave it in there for 100k? You will have the most awful mess coming out of your radiator. You realize that this dex cool was originally designed to protect the environment dont you? It was not designed to protect your cooling system better. This stuff just keeps fido from keeling over if he gets a belly full of it.

When I profess to start spreading rumors without merit, I'll be sure and check with you first....NOT!

dkozloski
01-25-05, 09:01 PM
Cadillactech, after reading your post I went out to my garage and got my jug of Dexcool. The label says it contains ETHYLENE GLYCOL with no mention at all of propylene glycol. Maybe you need to reevaluate your position. My understanding is that the green stuff and the orange stuff are identical except for the additive package. Prove me wrong if you can. Propylene glycol is what we call RV antifreeze. It's for the toilet and water system in your camper.

dkozloski
01-25-05, 09:17 PM
Bbob, it looks like these young whippersnappers have a little drying behind the ears to do.

Spyder
01-25-05, 10:17 PM
:histeric: Hehehe

BeelzeBob
01-25-05, 11:04 PM
Well, BBOB, my experience comes from 18 years working in a GM dealership, 21 years working on cars in general. I have seen first hand the damage that dex cool does. You can say what you want about it being "all that" but I would never run that garbage in ANY of my personal vehicles. In a ethylene glycol system, properly serviced, the only "bad guy" in the system is the mineral deposits in the tap water that you mixed the antifreeze with. If you use distilled water ( and I do ) you eliminate that problem. So, all you have to do is change it every 30k or so. BIG DEAL! My cooling system will last for years! With a propylene glycol system ( dex cool ) I dont care if you use distilled water or not! That stuff turns to funk after a while. In all fairness, maybe if you changed it like it was the green stuff ( every 30k ) it might not be as bad. But leave it in there for 100k? You will have the most awful mess coming out of your radiator. You realize that this dex cool was originally designed to protect the environment dont you? It was not designed to protect your cooling system better. This stuff just keeps fido from keeling over if he gets a belly full of it.

When I profess to start spreading rumors without merit, I'll be sure and check with you first....NOT!


Maybe you should check with me after all.....Maybe I can avoid you some embarassment next time....LOL LOL........DexCool is ethylene glycol....it is NOT propylene glycol. If you do not believe this read the jug..........it is on there in plain english.

I heartily endorse the use of distilled water mixed 50/50 with conventional green silicated coolant or DexCool, so at least we agree on that. That has been mentioned in many of my posts long before you showed up. Yes, the mineral content is a problem but most coolants are designed to handle some mineral content...that is why the owners manual says "clean, drinkable water"....distilled water is a sure bet to avoid all problems.

Unfortunately, mineral content is not the "only" bad guy. Aluminum heads corrode at the backside of the exhaust ports and combustion chamber due to a phenomenon called "hot transport deposition corrosion"... Microscopic chunks or bits of the aluminum break away into the coolant when the metal is heated (by the exhaust gases) and go into solution to be deposited in the coldest part of the system...like the radiator. Sooner or later the head fails due to a crack at the point that the corrosion occured due to the stress riser. To prevent this, the silicates in the green coolant plate the surface of the water jacket and prevent the hot transport deposition corrosion. If the silicates are depleted, the rest of the sytem can corrode also...like the steel core in the head gaskets for one. Nothing to do with mineral content.

Yes, if changed frequently, the green stuff with distilled water is great and provides excellent corrosion protection....

Unfortunately, not everyone is as diligent as you in changing their coolant...so....the corrosion protection disappears as the silicates are depleted and corrosion sets in. In an aluminum engine this is severe for two reasons. One, all aluminum engines need more corrosion protection and use up the silicates quicker. Two, when depleted, in an all aluminum engine, the coolant will not turn red with rust...it stays nice and green. So.. the owner thinks it is fine, meanwhile the engine and cooling sytem is failing from the inside out. Lots of those 93/94/95 head gasket failures are due to this. DexCool eliminates this problem due to the long life corrosion protection.

The conventional green coolant and DexCool are basically the same thing. Both are about 99.9 percent ethylene glycol..... The difference is that the green stuff has silicates in it for corrosion protection. The DexCool has an organic acid based corrosion inhibitor protection system that is not saccrificial like the green stuff.

In all seriousness.....propylene glycol is the pink RV antifreeze. It is sold as "environmentally friendly" or "low toxicity" automotive coolant such as the Sierra brand. Propylene glycol is not used as an OEM coolant to my knowlege by anyone as it is not as efficient a coolant. It has lower heat carrying capability and is higher viscosity. Read the jug.... If you want to find some propylene glycol at your shop and win a bet tomorrow.....read your Twinkies or HoneyBun package VERY closely for the contents. Most all packaged baked goods contain propylene glycol for moisture retention...TRUE. Amazing what you can learn reading the package.....LOL...LOL...

BTW....Fido will keel over if he drinks no more than an ounce of either the green stuff or the DexCool. If you were thinking that DexCool was "safe" to drink then maybe this whole exchange is good. It isn't. It is ethylene glycol and is extremely toxic. EXTREMELY toxic.


I respect your experience and knowlege...but....there are a lot of old wives tales and misinformation circulating in the shops. A little bit of reading and research or keeping up with the current periodicals and reading the service information will dispell a lot of them.... I, too, have been around and seen lots of problems from the various coolants and cooling sytems. I was developing cooling sytems long before you started working on cars.....LOL.




Some details on the "damage" that DexCool does, please. I has jus gots to know. Seriously, the only problems that I have seen from DexCool is from misapplication or mis-mixing the coolant.

For instance, we saw broken head bolts (BROKEN...not stripped) in a few Norhtstar engines in the field that were traced to cooling system fills of straight, undiluted DexCool. The acidic vapors leeching thru the head gasket pores into the head bolt cavities caused a stress corrosion failure of the bolts. Not the coolant's fault....supposed to mix it 50/50.....

You also forget to itemize the "damage" caused by people not servicing their systems with the green coolant in it. Blown head gaskets, rusted systems, water pump seals failing prematurely due to silicate contamination, etc.... But....I suppose those things don't "count" as a coolant failure. DexCool eliminates these problems with it's lone life corrosion protection capability.

BeelzeBob
01-25-05, 11:17 PM
The problem is that an automotive cooling system is not closed. There is a vent on the overflow that oxygenates the coolant. I think that the old systems that had the expansion space in the top tank actually did a better job of keeping the atmosphere away from the coolant. The hydronic heating system in my home has been operating with plain water for almost sixty years. Any time I have opened it up for modifications or maintenance it has been as clean as a hounds tooth and it is all plumbed out of black iron pipe. Why not truly seal the automotive systems with an expansion tank with a bladder and a safety valve to prevent dangerous explosions. In fact there is a little voice rattling around in my head telling me that there used to be sealed automotive systems years ago with no vent at all.


Yea, I agree in that respect. The system would have to be completely closed to eliminate the oxygen content. I suppose an "extrol" type of surge tank could work. The problem with that type of system is the amount of expansion, the need for occasional refilling and service of the system and what to do in the event of a severe overheat situation. Some sort of pressure vent or relief would be needed to atmosphere, though, to protect against an overpressurization incident in the event of the overheat. With enough time and money I suppose that an automotive system like that could be developed....more cost and mass and such....for very little to no gain as long as the cooling sytem/anti-freeze is maintained.

BeelzeBob
01-25-05, 11:18 PM
Bbob, it looks like these young whippersnappers have a little drying behind the ears to do.


Notice how all the techs that show up end up putting their foot in their mouth proving their knowlege and then leave immediately to never be heard from when it happens....LOL...LOL... I wish the techs that do post would devote their time to helping solve problems or describe the procedures needed to service or change certain parts...i.e..how to change the alternator on a Northstar Eldorado....rather then post to vent their personal feelings or further their rant on GM or certain products. Once they realize that their rants are somewhat ignored they leave.

dkozloski
01-25-05, 11:35 PM
Ethylene glycol is not that toxic in fact it is a suger. It is not uncommon to add it to certain European wines to increase sweetness. There was a big trade fight a few years ago on certain French wines being banned from the U.S. because of the ethylene glycol added. Austrian vintners lost millions when found out. You would have to drink 28 bottles per day of the doctored wine for two weeks to get sick from it. I think you'd be upchucking your toenails long before that. The stuff is really tough on dogs and cats. It causes crystals to form in their kidneys and is almost always fatal.

BeelzeBob
01-26-05, 12:02 AM
Ethylene glycol is not that toxic in fact it is a suger. It is not uncommon to add it to certain European wines to increase sweetness. There was a big trade fight a few years ago on certain French wines being banned from the U.S. because of the ethylene glycol added. Austrian vintners lost millions when found out. You would have to drink 28 bottles per day of the doctored wine for two weeks to get sick from it. I think you'd be upchucking your toenails long before that. The stuff is really tough on dogs and cats. It causes crystals to form in their kidneys and is almost always fatal.


Uh....I will respectfully disagree. Ethylene glycol is EXTREMELY TOXIC. Less than an ounce will kill a dog or cat. A human only takes two or three ounces. I think you are maybe confusing it with the propylene glycol that is used in the commercial baking industry and in some beverages and mixes. I cannot imagine EG being used in anything for human consumption. EG plugs up the kidneys with the crystal formation that you mentioned and the organism then poisons itself on it's own toxins that the kidney can no longer remove. I don't even think you get sick from EG poisoning or notice anything wrong until you start to turn yellow and die from toxic shock.... If there is EG in some wine or something it would have to be in the tiny parts per million range as it's effect is cumulative with the kidney damage.


Actually, propylene glycol is considered "toxic" but, like you said, it would take a gallon to cause damage..something that most people are unlikely to injest. It is FAR FAR less toxic than the ethylene glycol, though.

I think the PG is considered a "sugar" but EG is a petroleum byproduct to my knowlege. I know that EG is considered extremely flammable as well as toxic and occasionally a refinery that makes EG burns down.

Engine coolant is a very minor use of ethylene glycol. EG is manufactured or refined as a commodity for plastics production. A very tiny percentage of the EG production is devoted for use as engine coolant. That is what drives the price fluctuations. As the demand for plastic production increases so does the demand for EG and less is available for coolant...so the price is driven by the commodity value for plastic production.

dkozloski
01-26-05, 12:27 AM
Bbob, I can find you fifty references to ethylene glycol added to European wines. MSD sheets say it is toxic in large amounts. One reference says 100ml for a lethal dose. PG can be bought food grade. EG comes from petroleum. The chemical precurser from petroleum is ethylene oxide which is added to water to make glycol. Propylene glycol is odorless and tasteless so there would be no point to adding it to wine. EG is very sweet. Recheck your data.

BeelzeBob
01-26-05, 12:36 AM
Bbob, I can find you fifty references to ethylene glycol added to European wines. MSD sheets say it is toxic in large amounts. PG can be bought food grade. EG comes from petroleum. The chemical precurser from petroleum is ethylene oxide which is added to water to make glycol. Propylene glycol is odorless and tasteless so there would be no point to adding it to wine. EG is very sweet. Recheck your data.


EG is sweet, yes. I can't argue with you on the EG in the wines...but it really sounds strange.

I will still maintain that EG is very toxic. What does "large amounts" mean. I have always been told by the oil company chemists that we work with on EG coolants that EG is extremely toxic and all the references to it that I see indicate that even an ounce can kill a small child or dog or cat. I will check more but that is the conventional wisdom among the people in the know that I work with.


Edit: I am always a little leary of internet information...LOL LOL...but in a quick search of some poison contol websites I found the following to be typical....

Ethylene Glycol

Introduction

Ethylene glycol is the dihydroxy alcohol derivative of aliphatic hydrocarbons and is most often encountered in various antifreeze solutions and coolants. Ethylene glycol is also incorporated into solvents, industrial humectants, brake fluid, paints and lacquers, glass cleaners, and cosmetics. As little as a mouthful of a 99% antifreeze solution ingestion in either a child or adult may lead to toxic signs and symptoms

Pathophysiology

This clear, colorless, sweet-tasting liquid is rapidly and completely absorbed upon ingestion with peak blood levels occurring in 1-4 hours. It has a half-life of 2.5 to 4.5 hours (this may be extended to as long as 17 hours in the presence of ethanol at levels of 100-200 mg/dL). The elimination half-life of ethylene glycol with fomepizole treatment is 11 to 14.75 hours. Ethylene glycol is non-toxic, but is metabolized by alcohol dehydrogenase, found in the hepatocytes, into four toxic byproducts: glycoaldehyde, glycolate, glycolic acid, and glyoxylate. These four breakdown products are responsible for the tissue destruction (from calcium oxalate crystals) and metabolic toxicity (high anion gap metabolic acidosis, lactic acidosis, and hypocalcemia). Ethylene glycol has a volume of distribution (0.54-0.8 L/kg) similar to that of total body water. Ethylene glycol is filtered by the renal glomeruli and is passively reabsorbed. Approximately 20% of ethylene glycol is excreted unchanged in the urine. The lethal dose in adults is 1-1.5 mL/kg .



With a lethal dose at 1 mL/kg of body weight as stated I would only have to drink 2.5 ounces which fits my preconceived notions.

200 pounds is 74.6 kg ( 200 x 0.37324 ) so that would mean that 75 mL would poison me. 75 mL is 2.5 ounces ( 75 x .0338 )

This is my data....

BeelzeBob
01-26-05, 12:54 AM
One reference says 100ml for a lethal dose.



You edited this in.....LOL LOL



100 ml is NOT MUCH in my book. A little over 3 ounces to kill someone. Easy to hide in a bottle of Gatoraid. There was a criminal case on the Court Channel not long about about a woman that poisoned her husband with EG in his Gatoraid. 3 ounces isn't much...not a large volume to me.

CadiJeff
01-26-05, 01:00 AM
tsk tsk tsk :tisk: bbob, stop telling people how to kill their spouses it is not proper forum etiquit LOL
I persomally use green 50/50 in all my cars because it is cheaper and when you change it as often as I do (every 18 months or so) Dex cool is just not as economical and their is no advantage.

dkozloski
01-26-05, 01:02 AM
My guess is that this is just about the same argument that was going on about adding EG to the wine. One guy says it's poison and the other says we aren't adding that much. As an aside I have a gas turbine engine in my basement that uses ethylene oxide as a fuel. I was never able to locate enough or figure out how to get it in the tank to try it out.

cadillactech
01-26-05, 06:47 AM
Well. I'm still here. And I'm still using green coolant! I knew I bought that digital camera for something. It may take me a few days to get some pics, but rest assured, they are coming. Be honest with yourself, what do I have to gain from promoting green coolant over orange? I may be mistaken about the actual chemical makeup of "dex cool" as we actually use an off-brand of long life coolant in our shop. I will convince you with your own eyes, as soon as I can get some pictures. I just can't believe that you have never seen the problems that this crap causes, being the expert that you are. I mean really, this stuff is horrible! I just dont understand why anyone would use the orange when the green is soooooo much better and cheaper too!

youbetcha77
01-26-05, 09:31 AM
This is BS. DexCool is an excellent product that has shown excellent service in the field. The problems that people have had with it have been clearly identified as being caused by operating the sytems low on coolant in cast iron engines. The DexCool is not to blame for damage due to low coolant operation by the owner....

In other cases of internal engine damage and cooling system problems with DexCool the owners were running nearly straight DexCool in the system...it was no diluted 50/50 as clearly specified.

In all aluminum engines that need extra corrosion protection the DexCool provides superior protection basically for the life of the cooling system.....this protects the second and third owners from accepting the results of the earlier owners lack of cooling system maintenance as has happened with the 93/94/95 Northstars quite commonly.

If the DexCool is so "bad" just how are all those millions and millions of cars and trucks with it in the cooling systems running around perfectly fine and happy...???

I don't know where you are getting your facts from but the rumors about DexCool you are starting are wrong.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have done much research on this. If you check this out you will see that Texaco has million dollar lawsuits against them. If you read on this one website it says you can mix the green with the Dex-cool, but you need to change it every two years. I find that very very hard to beleive. My friend had a leaking water pump in his 96 Cavalier and added some green antifreeze to it to top it off and after about 500 miles had a cooling system that look like it was filled with orangy cottage cheese. You will hear all kinds of stories. The green anti-freeze is fine for a aluminum engine. Just read the back of the jug and it will say "meets or exceeds OEM blah blah for aluminum engines." I have worked on many vehicles with the dex-cool and have found some with severly contaminated cooling systems. Right now Im working on a 97 Chevy 3/4 ton with a 350 in it. The intake gasket is shot and has been for some time. He got it stuck in the mud and gave the engine hell and then it blew a headgasket. He said something has been leaking for three years or so. I used to think that Dex-cool was the cause for such failures. After working on vehicles I have come to the conclusion that the vehicles I have worked on that have had problems was because of neglect or system contamination. If the truck Im working on now would have had the intake gasket replaced and the system flushed it probably would not have all the deposits that are in it now and the headgasket would not have blown. The owner seems to thinkthe headgasket was Dex-cool's fault. When in fact, he got stuck and put a strain on the cooling system and the intake finally blew and it got too hot and then blew the headgasket. Some people see that Dex-cool lasts for 100,000 miles and stretch the interval when in fact Texaco probably already stretched it. I have seen that most vehicles with severly corroded cooling systems have had a cooling system leak at some time. I also think that some people flush and then add 50/50 mix when in fact the block holds a good amount of water. Then the protection isnt up to par and the water eventually overcomes the corrosion inhibitors. I have always added straight anti-freeze when refilling, unless I pulled the block drain plugs, and have always had a 50 to 65 percent mix after refilling and testing it. My neighbor has a 2000 chevy and has never had a problem, but he had his flushed and changed at 80,000 and his cooling system is clean as ever. IN my opinion I think if the system stays sealed then you shouldnt have a problem. Change it a little early and make sure it is flushed. If your system has gunk in it, take it to a shop that utilizes a antifreeze flushing machine. I have one, it uses air pressure to pulse the water through the system backwards and works great. I also recommend removing the thermostat for a good flush. All in all I think Dex-cool does what it says. I think people should react to early warning signs. If a radiator cap has a pile of crap on it, then why didnt the owner catch it when it first started. Some of the deposits in these cooling systems didnt just form in 3000 to 5000 miles. I take my cap off and look every oil change. If there is a start of deposits on the cap then flush it and refill. Some people see the deposits on the cap starting to form and say the heck with it because they still have some of that 100,000 miles left and then its too late. Hope this helps

Blaze

dkozloski
01-26-05, 10:21 AM
The problems with any anti-freeze come when the air gets to it. If the level gets low, every time the engine cools off it draws air into the system. Another confusion factor is the availability of "environmentally friendly" anti-freeze that has propylene glycol as its base. This stuff is not be mixed with anything. Then the notion comes out of the blue that somehow Dexcool and "Environmentally friendly" antifreeze are the same thing and get mixed. The mistake continues when the "mixer' starts a rant that Dexcool is no good when in truth the problem is that he doesn't read the labels on the containers. Let's keep going with our blunder and sue Texaco. Nobody ever went broke over estimating the stupidity of the public.

dkozloski
01-26-05, 10:30 AM
On a lighter note or maybe it's a bad note, the World Health Organization put out a report that all 44 examples of Italian wine they tested contained ethylene glycol. Now it seems that it can be in wine naturally. Don't drink more that 28 bottles a day for two weeks.

youbetcha77
01-26-05, 10:35 AM
cheers

dkozloski
01-26-05, 10:37 AM
bbob, We've got a ten thousand gallon tank of aircraft de-iceing fluid at the place where I work. The MSD sheet hanging from the tank says it is 98% ethylene glycol and is "food grade". It must depend on how much you use. I suppose anything is safe if the quantity is small enough and anything is toxic if you ingest enough. I've seen printers ink with a soy oil base that was labeled "safe to eat". I'll pass on that one.

BeelzeBob
01-26-05, 12:00 PM
bbob, We've got a ten thousand gallon tank of aircraft de-iceing fluid at the place where I work. The MSD sheet hanging from the tank says it is 98% ethylene glycol and is "food grade". It must depend on how much you use. I suppose anything is safe if the quantity is small enough and anything is toxic if you ingest enough. I've seen printers ink with a soy oil base that was labeled "safe to eat". I'll pass on that one.


How can EG be "food grade" when drinking 3 ounces will kill you.....????

Are you positive that it is EG and not PG?? Many deicing systems that I have seen referenced use PG due to the very low toxicity.

I guess I would have to question the MSD sheet....they can have errors also.

Maybe "food grade" just means that it is sterile....nothing to do with poisonous....??

I double checked with our chemist here that does coolant work and called my rep at Texaco that also works on coolant and they both expressed CLEARLY that EG is very poisonous. "Lethal in very small amounts" was the exact words used....

youbetcha77
01-26-05, 12:15 PM
At The Doe Run Company is Boss Missouri, they take battery acid and make food grade salt. I think it means it can be eaten. Maybe it is a synthetic like form of EG. It is poisonious no matter what somebody says. I seen what it did to my dog, very bad

Blaze

BeelzeBob
01-26-05, 12:18 PM
Since this has turned into a DexCool rant.....

The most common problem in the field was the use of the DexCool in iron engines (the 4.3 V6 to be specific) where the systems would clog up with red crud and overheat. The way that occurs is by running the system low on coolant. When the iron heads dry out internally the surface rusts immediately and then the coolant sloshing thru the (low) system washes the rust off and into the system. The rust builds up and clogs the system.

The green silicated coolants coat or plate the internal surfaces with silicates to prevent corrosion. That is why the silicates disappear over time and need replenishing. The nice thing about this is that the surface is protected against corrosion to some extent by the silicates even it if drys out due to low coolant. The DexCool acidic based corrosion inhibitor is lifetime but needs to be present to prevent corrosion...i.e..if the surface drys out due to low coolant then it will not protect.

This phenomenon, and running higher concentrations of DexCool, are the main reasons for problems with the systems.

It is NOT acceptable to mix DexCool and any of the propylene glycol coolants. Period. Read the service info, owners manual, etc..... Regardless of what Sierra or other makers say it is not acceptable (they say it is because you wouldn't buy their coolant if they told you you have to purge the system)

I have seen many systems where the DexCool was mixed with green conventional coolant with no severe problems at all. No gelling or other issues. The DexCool was developed so as to be compatible with other ethylene glycol coolants in case DexCool was not availalable. This was an issue when DexCool first hit the market in 1996 but is much less of a concern today. The DexCool looses it's long life capability when mixed or contaminated with the green silicated coolant but other than that, it is fine.

I would never condone putting DexCool into a system that was previously designed and sold with the green silicated coolant. Nor would I condone switching a system over to DexCool that was not originally designed for it...i.e...one of my buddies wanted to switch his snowmobile over to DexCool...I convinced him not to as we did not know if the aluminum alloys in the heat exchangers were compatible with the DexCool acidic corrosion package. When the sysytems are designed and validated with DexCool it works great and is not a problem.

BeelzeBob
01-26-05, 12:30 PM
I may be mistaken about the actual chemical makeup of "dex cool" as we actually use an off-brand of long life coolant in our shop.




I can't believe what people admit to. You rant about how bad DexCool is and then print the fact that your shop uses an off-brand of long life coolant...!!!! Amazing.

What makes you think that the "off-brand" is really long life coolant?? There are many "long life coolants"...even some silicated "long life" coolants.

There is only ONE DexCool source. Texaco. They invented the stuff in conjunction with GM. If it isn't Texaco it isn't DexCool. Other companies make claims to be DexCool compatible and such...but....the only OEM source of DexCool is Texaco. Period.

One of our purchasing geniouses sourced our engineering supply of coolant from an "off-brand" to save money many years ago. Bought the stuff, brought it into product engineering, plumbed it into our coolant supply system and never told anyone. After we blew up several (very expensive) developement engines and went thru a 3 month witch hunt we discovered that the "off brand" coolant was pure ethylene glycol WITHOUT ANY CORROSION INHIBITORS IN IT AT ALL. Sure the label said it was silicated and all the promises were there but it was not corrosion inhibited. So much for "off brands". They are cheaper for a reason.

Any shop that bad mouths DexCool and then buys off brand coolant and puts it into customer cars as DexCool has their head up their ass and I would be glad to say that in person to the management of the place. Meanwhile, putting off brand coolant into cars instantly negates any credibility of any cooling system problem analysis done there. Heavens, who knows what kind of junk you are putting into cooling systems....!!!...???? Maybe YOUR SHOP is the source of some of the "DexCool" horror stories out there because of the trash coolant you put into cars under the guise of DexCool.

dkozloski
01-26-05, 01:50 PM
The ten thousand gallon tank does indeed have ethylene glycol in it. And it appears the food grade statement means it is not contaminated with heavy metals or some other problematic material. Our ops specs say to de-ice aircraft with heated 50/50 ethylene glycol and this is chisled in stone. The deicing is done in a dedicated area and the excess is controlled. Given time the EG is fully biodegradable. That's why the contamination level of the EG is controlled. The airport management has a construction project underway to build dedicated pads with grades, gutters, plumbing, and recovery equipment with an intent at recyling.

youbetcha77
01-26-05, 07:05 PM
BBob, what would you say to using the Walmart brand Green coolant? Thats what I have used for quite a while.

Blaze

cadillactech
01-26-05, 07:47 PM
Ok, on closer inspection, we are using texaco green antifreeze and shell orange antifreeze. The shell coolant claims right on the bottle that it meets dexcool specifications.

When I make the statement about dexcool being so bad, it's because of the problems caused by the stuff that's in the cooling system from the factory. We all know what that is....DEXCOOL. We have not had problems with cars that have had flushes or major cooling system repairs because it got changed long before that 150,000 mile interval. Dexcool is bad. I really do not care what you think, I am entitled to my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. It was you that decided to start getting personal about the matter. I do not know what you do for a living, and really do not care. I work on cadillacs every day, and have for a very long time. I see this stuff every day. You obviously have some kind of posh desk job where you can sit and surf the internet all day. While you are talking about it, I'm doing it. Let me guess, you think that platinum plugs REALLY do last 100,000 miles too. That would figure.

BeelzeBob
01-26-05, 08:41 PM
Ok, on closer inspection, we are using texaco green antifreeze and shell orange antifreeze. The shell coolant claims right on the bottle that it meets dexcool specifications.

When I make the statement about dexcool being so bad, it's because of the problems caused by the stuff that's in the cooling system from the factory. We all know what that is....DEXCOOL. We have not had problems with cars that have had flushes or major cooling system repairs because it got changed long before that 150,000 mile interval. Dexcool is bad. I really do not care what you think, I am entitled to my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. It was you that decided to start getting personal about the matter. I do not know what you do for a living, and really do not care. I work on cadillacs every day, and have for a very long time. I see this stuff every day. You obviously have some kind of posh desk job where you can sit and surf the internet all day. While you are talking about it, I'm doing it. Let me guess, you think that platinum plugs REALLY do last 100,000 miles too. That would figure.


Glad you edit your posts for accuracy....LOL

What exactly was "personal" about my posts....???

Now that you have cleared up the issue of the "off-brand" coolant I will not have to dis your shop foreman or purchasing agent....LOL

Little known fact.....Shell "DexCool" is really Texaco "DexCool"....so you are not using an off-brand. Your shop is putting the same stuff into the cooling systems that the factory did. Shell sources their DexCool coolant from Texaco so it is "real" DexCool...not a DexCool "equivalent" like the imposters. Shell apparently did not want to be left out in the cold when DexCool hit the market so they sourced the stuff from Texaco...so the Shell coolant is really Texaco coolant.

Your opinion is noted. There is plenty of evidence that DexCool works fine and is a very good product, however.

Yep....I am sitting at work here at 8:30 PM surfing the internet....LOL LOL LOL Aren't all desk jobs posh??? While you have been figuring out how to take Cadillacs apart and put them together for all those years I have been engineering them since you were wetting the bed I bet...?? Just kidding, really.

Platinum plugs will really last 100K, yes. Seen an awful lot of them that went further even. Some might not make it. But the vast majority go further than 100K. If a plug is fouled with gas for some reason along the way or one of the platinum pads falls off along the way it will certainly shorten the life of the plug. Still, they last FAR FAR longer than any of the alternatives out there and dyno work proves consistently that they are the best plugs for performance, driveability, emissions and durability. The early platinum plugs did have some durability issues with the retention of the platinum pad. Not uncommon to see plugs of the 93/94 generation with 2 or 3 of the platinum pads missing out of 8 plugs after 100K....but they do last. Do you even know about the dark ages when plugs lasted 10K or 15K at the most....?? Used to be that way. Somehow, todays techs seem to think that if the plugs don't last the 100K they are trash....when in reality the GM dual platinum plugs were the first in the industry to get out of the rut of regular spark plug replacement and demonstrate the ability to run the plugs for 100K....and they are getting better still with the iridium plugs.

cadillactech
01-26-05, 08:58 PM
Bottom line, the green stuff works fine if you change it. Why worry about the dexcool.

So, you are a self proclaimed cadillac engineer, can I get your autograph? Let me drop my pants and show you where to sign.

By all means, continue to use it in your car ( dexcool ) maybe someday I'll get lucky and see your car spewing coolant in the emergency lane.

You aint god, forums are for opinions, when you ease up, so will I.......

danbuc
01-26-05, 09:14 PM
Punch him in the face Bbob :want: ...hehe. cadillactech, how long have you been a tech at this dealer. I'm just curious. Bbob, did help design the Northstar, so this would in a sense, make him sort of an expert on the matter I would say. There must be a reason that cars which are properly maintained and use Dexcool, run fine with no cooling system problems. Not changing the Dexcool for 100k miles, is like not changing your oil for 10k miles. It may be possible to run it that long, but is certainly not recommended. OUt of all the Cadillac's that your dealer has sold that use Dexcool over the years, what actual percentage of them came back later with cooling issues DIRECTLY related to Dexcool. I'm not talking about running the coolnt low, or contaminateing it with the green coolant. I mean, and engine that was eaten from the inside out by the 50/50 Dexcool/Water mixture. Probably less than 1%. As a tech, you only see the bad. You don't see the millions of Cadillac's that are still running fine with 150-200k miles still using Dexcool. Get back to me when you have the results of my question. :annoyed:

D148L0
01-26-05, 09:18 PM
Ethylene glycol is not that toxic in fact it is a suger. It is not uncommon to add it to certain European wines to increase sweetness. There was a big trade fight a few years ago on certain French wines being banned from the U.S. because of the ethylene glycol added. Austrian vintners lost millions when found out. You would have to drink 28 bottles per day of the doctored wine for two weeks to get sick from it. I think you'd be upchucking your toenails long before that. The stuff is really tough on dogs and cats. It causes crystals to form in their kidneys and is almost always fatal.
dkozlosky, EG is extremely toxic. A small dosis CAN kill you, or leave permanent sequels.

D148L0
01-26-05, 09:31 PM
So, you are a self proclaimed cadillac engineer, can I get your autograph? Let me drop my pants and show you where to sign.

I just hope your ego let you learn who Bbob is and the quality of his vast knowledge so you adress him with the proper respect, before you get banned.

danbuc
01-26-05, 09:46 PM
Well put D148L0. cadillactech, there's a reason why a vast majority of the post on this and many other forums are directly addressed to Bbob. Think about that, and maybe oneday, people will respect you half as much.

dkozloski
01-26-05, 10:38 PM
Funny you should say that about platinum sparkplugs. My '95 Ford Ranger has 101,000 miles on the original everything. It has never had an engine part changed other than oil and filters. It operates in sub-arctic conditions perfectly. If the plugs have gone bad somewhere along the line don't let it know it. As for what I do. I'm the facilities manager for a regional airline. I'm about three weeks from retirement at 65+. I was a journeyman machinist at 17 and have worked on everything from cars and trucks to missiles to spacecraft to aircraft to toilets to printing presses to mainframe computers to pre-press equipment to gunsmithing. I managed an aircraft engine overhaul shop for ten years. I have a pilots license, an aircraft mechanics license, and a radio broadcast engineers license. I did a hitch in the Navy as a missile technician. I've done depot level maintenance and final assembly and final acceptance testing on Terrier, Tartar, Talos, Sidewinder, and Sparrow missiles. In case you are wondering about Bobinski. He's been a Cadillac engineer since long before Northstar and what he doesn't know about Cadillacs he doesn't need to know. He isn't afraid to admit it when he has to go to another source for information. When he tells you something it is well thought out and he can quote the sources. What irritates him is when a system or procedure is designed, developed, and implemented with thorough instructions and then some Yahoo comes along and does everything his own way then badmouths another mans lifes work. That being said, I think you have a point in that the Dexcool program has some shortfalls and is not nearly as forgivng as a system designed for the real world should be. For something to be successful in the automotive realm it must be a master plan conceived by geniuses to be executed by idiots who before they do anything must first ask themselves "How would I do this if I were a fool". It looks to me like making the Dexcool product work requires keeping the system topped up with coolant so air is excluded. Apparantly that is beyond the capability of a lot of humans. Cheers.

BeelzeBob
01-26-05, 11:07 PM
Bottom line, the green stuff works fine if you change it. Why worry about the dexcool.

So, you are a self proclaimed cadillac engineer, can I get your autograph? Let me drop my pants and show you where to sign.

By all means, continue to use it in your car ( dexcool ) maybe someday I'll get lucky and see your car spewing coolant in the emergency lane.

You aint god, forums are for opinions, when you ease up, so will I.......


uh...never indicated I was. Lots of things I don't know. You certainly have much more practical experience than I do....but I have pulled a few wrenches myself....

I have been posting on here, helping people as best I can for several years...you showed up and started spouting off. Who started what and who is to ease up....???

If you post legitimate, helpful comments to aid people in diagnosing problems I will support it 100%...I can use the help and cannot answer all the questions. If you post erroneous info...I will correct it...just as you would if I put down something wrong.

Speaking of you bending over....opinions are like that...every one has one. I'll express mine and you express yours....just responding to your continuing barbs is getting tiresome.

dkozloski
01-26-05, 11:49 PM
Obviously, if there is a big Dexcool issue and a lot of lawyer activity there has to be somebody at Chevron/Texaco that can tell you exactly what the real story is. If orange cottage cheese showed up in somebodies cooling system more than once it has been analyzed to death bt this time. A couple of years ago the hydronic heating system in a building we had rented out quit circulating because of air locks. When some fluid was drained it was foaming and the total inside of the plumbing was coated with a sticky black residue. The system was supposed to contain a Dow product designed for heating systems(ethylene glycol with a tailored anti-corrosion package). After some discussion with a Dow engineer and some testing it was found that now the system was full of the Dow product, aircraft deicing fluid, propylene glycol, and petroleum. Someone had pumped the system full of crankcase drainings and slop from a "mystery barrel". The system was flushed but continued to exude a flammable gas from the automatic bleeders. We had to take out the boiler and junk it and flush the system for a week with everything from Sodium triphosphate to Mek. It is now working normally $10,000 later. I bet this story isn't a lot different from the way it really was with Dexcool. When the mechanic screws up, the truth ain't in'em.

cadillactech
01-27-05, 07:09 AM
Ok, one more time. The dexcool issue I have is that it is not user friendly, it is not what the package claims. I have seen green coolant that was in a car for 100k that did not look as bad as dexcool at 100k. You mention that letting the coolant get exposed to air being a problem with dexcool. Well you know what! It did not hurt the green stuff to be exposed to air or in a system that was low. Thats what I am trying to say. So many people are in the mindset now ( thanks to the manufacturer ) that they do not even have to know how to spell dexcool, let alone look at it or change it for 100k or more. While they have this warm fuzzy feeling inside, their cooling system is rotting. By the way, I have noticed more vehicles going back to green, and alternative coolants in recent years. All I am saying is this.....the only drawback I can see with green coolant is that it has to be changed occasionally. The dexcool, well, you know how I feel about it....

youbetcha77
01-27-05, 09:38 AM
Ok, one more time. The dexcool issue I have is that it is not user friendly, it is not what the package claims. I have seen green coolant that was in a car for 100k that did not look as bad as dexcool at 100k. You mention that letting the coolant get exposed to air being a problem with dexcool. Well you know what! It did not hurt the green stuff to be exposed to air or in a system that was low. Thats what I am trying to say. So many people are in the mindset now ( thanks to the manufacturer ) that they do not even have to know how to spell dexcool, let alone look at it or change it for 100k or more. While they have this warm fuzzy feeling inside, their cooling system is rotting. By the way, I have noticed more vehicles going back to green, and alternative coolants in recent years. All I am saying is this.....the only drawback I can see with green coolant is that it has to be changed occasionally. The dexcool, well, you know how I feel about it....
--------------------------------
Okay Im sure everyone gets the point by now.

Blaze

dkozloski
01-27-05, 11:07 AM
About the time you think you have a foolproof system they come up with a better fool.

mcowden
01-27-05, 01:58 PM
I'm going to stay away from the flame wars and ask a real question that somebody asked me today and I don't know how to answer:

When I switch from Dexcool to regular green antifreeze, what steps do I have to take to ensure I get all of the Dexcool out of the system?

I don't think there are any block drains. So how DO you get it all out of there?

BeelzeBob
01-27-05, 05:18 PM
About the only practical answer is to take the thermostat out, run the engine with the garden hose on full blast in the rad inlet fitting (top hose) and let the top hose dump overboard until clear water comes thru. Then top off the system with straight antifreeze, run the engine for awhile and check the concentration to see where the system is at.

Aurora40
01-29-05, 06:28 PM
Well the back and forth was a bit much, but I found this to be a very useful thread with lots of information on the green stuff and on DexCool. Plus, now I know more about the Prestone "enviro-safe" stuff I use in my beater. It's a puny engine that doesn't need a lot of cooling, I've been using it for a few years and had no problems. Nice to know what it's made of though and what the shortcomings are. It's a '95 Nissan 200SX with a 1.6L engine and 165,000 miles on it. I like that if coolant spills, it can't kill anyone or anything. :)

I do have a question that hopefully won't get lost in the exchanges. Is it possible to have a dye-additive that makes the DexCool look green? I drained and filled my dad's 2001 Aurora today, the one the dealer said cracked the block. The odd thing was the coolant coming out was very green. There was some orange in the overflow, but it all seemed green. He bought the car used, though as a GM Certified car (not that this really means much), so the history is unknown. He seems to think it was the dye additive that turned it green (he seems to think dealerships would want to only have competent workers or they'd lose all their business, this is even after the parts guy sold him 4 gallons of "pre-diluted" DexCool in containers that clearly said to dilute it 50/50... :nono: ), but it sure as heck looked like green coolant to me. When I poured it into containers, it almost seems green in parts and orange/brown in parts... Weird...

Anyway, can a tracing dye make DexCool look green?

BeelzeBob
01-29-05, 07:34 PM
Well the back and forth was a bit much, but I found this to be a very useful thread with lots of information on the green stuff and on DexCool. Plus, now I know more about the Prestone "enviro-safe" stuff I use in my beater. It's a puny engine that doesn't need a lot of cooling, I've been using it for a few years and had no problems. Nice to know what it's made of though and what the shortcomings are. It's a '95 Nissan 200SX with a 1.6L engine and 165,000 miles on it. I like that if coolant spills, it can't kill anyone or anything. :)

I do have a question that hopefully won't get lost in the exchanges. Is it possible to have a dye-additive that makes the DexCool look green? I drained and filled my dad's 2001 Aurora today, the one the dealer said cracked the block. The odd thing was the coolant coming out was very green. There was some orange in the overflow, but it all seemed green. He bought the car used, though as a GM Certified car (not that this really means much), so the history is unknown. He seems to think it was the dye additive that turned it green (he seems to think dealerships would want to only have competent workers or they'd lose all their business, this is even after the parts guy sold him 4 gallons of "pre-diluted" DexCool in containers that clearly said to dilute it 50/50... :nono: ), but it sure as heck looked like green coolant to me. When I poured it into containers, it almost seems green in parts and orange/brown in parts... Weird...

Anyway, can a tracing dye make DexCool look green?

I would say that if it looked green it was the green stuff.....

94CaddyConcours
01-29-05, 07:43 PM
OK enough about gren versus orange. Here the real question. I planing to change/flush my cooling sytem and I want to know should I use the orange or the green since the orange is more protectant, my current color is green.
And what type of barleak should I use and where should I put it?



:halo: :thumbsup:

BeelzeBob
01-29-05, 11:46 PM
OK enough about gren versus orange. Here the real question. I planing to change/flush my cooling sytem and I want to know should I use the orange or the green since the orange is more protectant, my current color is green.
And what type of barleak should I use and where should I put it?



:halo: :thumbsup:


You must not have read all the posts above.

Use the green, conventional silicated coolant.

Your engine was built with the green stuff.

As stated above, neither protects "better". Just different corrosion protection methods/chemistry. If the system is refreshed regularily then the green works find.

If the system has already run all this time on the green then it is completely contaminated with the silicates and using the DexCool orange coolant would be pointless as the silicates in the system will render the DexCool coolant's long life corrosion protection moot.

Aurora40
01-30-05, 11:29 AM
I would say that if it looked green it was the green stuff.....
Bleah... :(

Thanks Bbob! :wave:

irebroff
11-05-05, 04:58 PM
Im from Germany and German Cars have aluminium motors since more years than US-cars.

We have this problem fixed with a new product it`s called BASF Glysantin Alu Protect Premium/G30 and the color is violet. We change this fluid about all 6 years and our winters are very cold and our speed is much higher. Not really a problem.

I have only a german link, I will translate it if everybody wish that :bouncy:

http://www.basf.de/basf/html/d/produkte/gebiete/glysanti/produkte/g30.htm

You can even mix it with some others but I don`t recommend that...

I don`t know if you can get this at us part dealers, but I will test it in my Cadillac Seville STS