: 1,200 CTS-V Wagons?



sfvagon
05-28-13, 05:06 PM
"Juan Barnett of DC Auto Geek tweeted some interesting information last weekend regarding the last generation of CTS-V; just 1,200 examples of the CTS-V wagon were sold during the carís lifecycle ...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/05/cadillac-cts-v-wagons-made-up-0-005-percent-of-cts-sales/

gjnockie
05-28-13, 05:24 PM
Wonder if that information is accurate?

How did he come up with exactly 1200 V wagons? Aren't 14's going to be available?

VMoose
05-28-13, 05:28 PM
Great link, thanks for sharing!

Xaqtly
05-28-13, 05:56 PM
Huh. So they're suggesting 1200 out of 7000 wagons were V models, which is 17%. But as they point out, the V wagons made profit after the first 5 of them sold, so the real problem was that they didn't sell enough regular CTS wagons, and making profit on 1195 V wagons wasn't enough to cover the tooling costs for the wagon model. I guess we can only hope that they decide making all that profit on all those wagons was something they'd like to do again, and make a V3 V wagon. :)

neuronbob
05-28-13, 05:59 PM
The comments on that link are hilarious. My favorite:

"I’d like to buy that 0.005% a drink, but chances are they are too busy being awesome."

Hell, yeah! :) But I'll take an O'Doul's, thanks, I don't drink alcohol.

Edit:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLMfyKPCEAEkX3N.jpg:large

So we have a part of the numbers I asked for in my recent thread.

vfaninva
05-28-13, 11:22 PM
I'm not convinced those numbers are accurate.

neuronbob
05-29-13, 12:53 AM
Well, Cadillac isn't giving up the information willingly. The numbers may, or may not, be accurate. We'll see....

Jinx
05-29-13, 03:38 AM
BTW, how does the VIN break down? Are all CTS's part of the same VIN sequence each year? Or are there different sequences for coupe/sedan/wagon? Or for V/non-V?

pat2t2f
05-29-13, 08:35 AM
I believe the 8th character in the vin is a P for the V's. I don't know about body styles or number sequencing.

V Wagon
05-29-13, 01:55 PM
http://service.gm.com/dealerworld/vincards/pdf/vincard13%20car%2010-01-12%20r1.6.pdf

VIN characters, explained. So it goes into body type and engine. So the engine digit would define a CTS as a V. Then the Sedan/Coupe/Wagon would be differentiated from body code there.

Jinx
05-29-13, 03:11 PM
Based on my VIN, it appears there is a single sequence for the entire Cadillac CTS range, and they've built over 73,000 in MY2013.

Either that or there are a LOT more Vagons out there....

BTW, it's just marvelous that the CTS-V Wagon line/series/bodystyle is DV8.

.Jinx
damn right we do

dhg2496
05-29-13, 09:54 PM
I just picked up a used 6spd v-wagon a few weeks ago and am delighted to hear that it might be 1 of 1200. I like rare vehicles and I think it's great that these are this rare the only down side is that it probably means there won't be a next gen version of the wagon.

Trapspeed
05-29-13, 10:19 PM
I thought GM already announced no more wagons. I could be wrong but I thought I read that here.

dhg2496
05-29-13, 10:44 PM
I read the same thing but I was holding out a little hope that it would just come later like the current coupe and wagon did for this body style.

neuronbob
05-30-13, 12:54 AM
GM already said there will be no 3G wagon.

Of course, you never know for sure...

Only 8600 CTS wagons (V or otherwise) overall sold, worldwide, as opposed to somewhere north of 250k 2G SRXs. The beancounters won't be approving one, not without a risk taker like Bob Lutz around to push/encourage such a nutso idea. God we Americans are dumb in our (collective, not me personally) love for prissy CUVs.

Jinx
05-30-13, 01:31 AM
The CUV's trump card is loading height. You can strap the littles ones in or position that pallet of creamed corn without bending low or banging your head.

neuronbob
05-30-13, 07:11 AM
^^^^^
...land then you have to drive said CUV. Ugh. What a soul-sucking experience if you are someone who actually enjoys driving. I thought the appeal was driving height for the ladies....only if everyone is driving a CUV, you still can't see over anyone...and you still can't see through SUVs.

Random84
05-30-13, 10:06 AM
I'm not convinced those numbers are accurate.

If you check out my thread from a few weeks ago, I break down some hypothetical math based on what we DO know. And I also keep coming up with 1200 to 1500 total Wagons based on the percentages of production for the first two years. My estimations for CTS base wagons, as a percentage, are also very close to OP's link - which increases my confidence.

Given that a model tends to become less popular over the life of production, I think 1200 is a reasonable number.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-2013-cadillac-cts-v-general/292258-actual-cadillac-cts-production-numbers-2009-a.html

If anything, I'm surprised that almost as many coupes were sold as sedans (assuming those numbers are accurate). The sedan volume must have really dropped in `11, `12 and `13.

thebigjimsho
05-30-13, 11:02 AM
^^^^^
...land then you have to drive said CUV. Ugh. What a soul-sucking experience if you are someone who actually enjoys driving. I thought the appeal was driving height for the ladies....only if everyone is driving a CUV, you still can't see over anyone...and you still can't see through SUVs.

Just had this conversation with a woman last week. She wants an SUV to be high up. I said meh. I want to be low to the ground and feel more connected to what the car is doing. She looks at me funny.

Oh well...

Random84
05-30-13, 11:33 AM
Just had this conversation with a woman last week. She wants an SUV to be high up. I said meh. I want to be low to the ground and feel more connected to what the car is doing. She looks at me funny.

Oh well...

I hate to generalize, but most women are not rational in their preferences - they "feel." She "feels" safer in a larger vehicle, and that perception is increased with an elevated seating position - which is why she prefers SUV's in the first place. She has no thought of how hollow that door panel between her and the semitruck is, or how violently a roll-over at 55mph would be or why a higher center of gravity would be detrimental for real safety - she just "feels" safer when she can see over other cars from a vehicle that is dimensionally larger but has the same total mass.

IMHO, it's also why women tend to vote democratically - they "feel" the need for others to be helped in the name of compassion and fairness; but only so long as the price of that fairness does not immediately affect their lifestyle.

It's also why they buy into "green" energy, starving kid charities for anywhere but here, lingering exes who honestly just want to be friends, raise spoiled children with insecurity complexes and why - at the end of the day - so many of them pride themselves on being independent and self-sustaining but secretly need to be pursued by a Man's Man to affirm their femininity and make the Hard Decisions for them: like where to go for dinner.

:D

(Full Disclosure: I'm married).

Jinx
05-30-13, 12:09 PM
^^^^^
...land then you have to drive said CUV. Ugh. What a soul-sucking experience if you are someone who actually enjoys driving.

The vast majority of people see driving as a necessary task, a means to an end, not an end in itself. They're looking to reduce hassle, not increase joy.


I thought the appeal was driving height for the ladies....only if everyone is driving a CUV, you still can't see over anyone...and you still can't see through SUVs.

There are still enough people who buy midsize sedans because they're cheaper and get better gas mileage (without being uncomfortable or looking too cheap) that CUVs can give look-over height. Besides, it's not just other cars that people want to look out over not up at -- it's pedestrians, signs, obstacles... the lower you are the more things are a matter of depth perception vs static position in your field of view. Plus CUVs have the illusion of being tough. Bad drivers want vehicles that can absorb the punishment of their mistakes :)

----------


(Full Disclosure: I'm married).

Still? ;)

Random84
05-30-13, 01:21 PM
[/COLOR]

Still? ;)

She's smarter than me, better looking than me, making more money than me, and she is tireless at home, around the house and with child, and goes out of her way for me. Yet, at the end of the day a big part of her wants the security of being kept - for lack of a better word - and having a trustworthy decision maker to make the choices she can't (or won't) make. That, and I take out the trash.

- another social commentary redacted -

Anyway, I digress. Simply put, I'm a lucky SoB. :D

Let's get back to wagons.

MacBuster
05-30-13, 01:39 PM
GM already said there will be no 3G wagon.

Of course, you never know for sure...

Only 8600 CTS wagons (V or otherwise) overall sold, worldwide, as opposed to somewhere north of 250k 2G SRXs. The beancounters won't be approving one, not without a risk taker like Bob Lutz around to push/encourage such a nutso idea. God we Americans are dumb in our (collective, not me personally) love for prissy CUVs.

I love my V so much, it saddens me that it will be my last one.

On the other hand, the new E63 wagon is amazing, so other than my pocketbook, I won't be left in the lurch for a super-wagon in the future.

oneman42
05-30-13, 02:06 PM
Yo Mac, where you the black wagon going north on Deerfoot on tuesday evening and we said hello to each other? I was the black sedan turning east on Glenmore.
Cool guy anyways!
George

MacBuster
05-30-13, 03:09 PM
That wasn't me. I think there are a couple of other black wagons around.

Mine has the polished rims on now, with my summer tires...(I am going to swap my summers onto my black rims at some point).

vfaninva
05-30-13, 04:41 PM
If you check out my thread from a few weeks ago, I break down some hypothetical math based on what we DO know. And I also keep coming up with 1200 to 1500 total Wagons based on the percentages of production for the first two years. My estimations for CTS base wagons, as a percentage, are also very close to OP's link - which increases my confidence.

Given that a model tends to become less popular over the life of production, I think 1200 is a reasonable number.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-2013-cadillac-cts-v-general/292258-actual-cadillac-cts-production-numbers-2009-a.html

If anything, I'm surprised that almost as many coupes were sold as sedans (assuming those numbers are accurate). The sedan volume must have really dropped in `11, `12 and `13.

Random84,

First, I want to say thanks for all your effort and time researching and calculating CTS/V production numbers!
The information you have provided has really cleared up most of my questions. I'm not surprised about the low number of Vagons (we all knew they would be very rare) but, I am surprised by the breakdown of V coupes reported. You stated that 15,715 coupes total were produced in MY2011. Assuming the 10% rule, that means roughly 1,570 V coupes the first year of production. Now, at the end of MY13 production, there have been 32,000 total coupes produced with 6,000 of them being V's. That's a rate of 20%. I don't really question the total number of coupes, just the V's.

Squirlz
06-05-13, 05:14 PM
I spent the weekend with Cadillac at the Belle Isle race last weekend. I got some interesting stats directly from the Global Product manager. 6% of Sedans are Vs, 12% of Coupes, and Wagons? 30 to 35%!

Xaqtly
06-05-13, 05:28 PM
I'm surprised the wagon percentage isn't higher, like closer to 50%. But 30-35% is pretty good.

Random84
06-05-13, 05:58 PM
I spent the weekend with Cadillac at the Belle Isle race last weekend. I got some interesting stats directly from the Global Product manager. 6% of Sedans are Vs, 12% of Coupes, and Wagons? 30 to 35%!

Meaning, of all wagons produced, 30-35% of them are V-series?

I suppose that's possible given the hugely disproportionate volume of base CTS sedan/coupe production - Wagons are a rare breed even in standard form. So out of 7-8,000 CTS wagons made, he's saying around 2,000 or 2400 of them are V's (assuming he was specifically referencing US production)?

Believable, but of course since this guy is the Global Manager it's also possible the percentage is lower State-side vs Globally (as the Wagon is much more popular over seas)?

Squirlz
06-05-13, 06:12 PM
Meaning, of all wagons produced, 30-35% of them are V-series?

I suppose that's possible given the hugely disproportionate volume of base CTS sedan/coupe production - Wagons are a rare breed even in standard form. So out of 7-8,000 CTS wagons made, he's saying around 2,000 or 2400 of them are V's (assuming he was specifically referencing US production)?

Believable, but of course since this guy is the Global Manager it's also possible the percentage is lower State-side vs Globally (as the Wagon is much more popular over seas)?

Yes. All CTSs are built here in Lansing, and 30-35% of Wagons built are Vs. He didn't talk any total production numbers, or how many are overseas sales. I'll ask him next time I see him in August.

RobbE
06-06-13, 01:36 PM
Guys. who cares how accurate the numbers are. If you own a VAGON, as I do for the past few months now........ The rare factor, and the WTF is that factor I get by anyone who sees it .. is worth it !

I mean come on, how many cars can you buy these days, that NO ONE HAS, let alone ever seen before.

1200 - 200 - 2200 - WHO CARES ! this beast is a rare bird, and 20 - 30 years from now, we will all be at barrett jackson selling them....... lol

Maybe - lol

tinman
06-06-13, 01:47 PM
Just had this conversation with a woman last week. She wants an SUV to be high up. I said meh. I want to be low to the ground and feel more connected to what the car is doing. She looks at me funny.

Oh well...

Did you tell her that when she gets in to that high up SUV that all men look up her skirt? That's why she need a wagon.