: OUR ONSTAR"S NO GOOD AFTER JAN 31st 2006?



GNSCOTT
01-19-05, 06:42 PM
Sorry if this has been posted before, but My Dad just got a letter from Onstar saying that on this date, Phone companies are no longer required to handle analogue (sp) and that his Onstar will be no good after that date. I'm assuming our's have yet to be switched to digital? That will kinda suck when you go to sell the car and you tell the people it has Onstar, butcha can't use it.:madtalkin

benjet
01-19-05, 08:53 PM
2008 IIRC, nothing new on the switch from analog to digital. There will have to be OEM retrofit kits if they want to keep us as Onstar customers.

ylwjacket
01-19-05, 08:55 PM
I thought the 05s had dual equipment, so that they would still work later. Don't know about the 04s.

ctsvett
01-19-05, 09:01 PM
Here is what I have read/ know:

1. 04s and 05s have the same equipment (but different antenna)
2. It is Digital "READY" but not actually digital
3. Nobody knows yet how Onstar is going to upgrade people. (there may be some cost involved).
4. This affects more than just our cars, but the thousands of other onstar equipped cars.

My guess, they will go to a subscription model that works like this: sign up for a contract for XX amount of time (1-5 years) and they will pay for the equipment upgrade if possible (see dictionary under "DirecTV business model").

If anyone has some contacts at onstar, maybe we can get a better answer. Or better yet, everyone just press the onstar button and ask. If we all do it at the same time, they will at least need to come up with a good answer. I say 9:00 am tomorrow... HAHA Just kidding...

Reed
http://www.cadillacfaq.com

ahahnu
01-19-05, 09:02 PM
I've herd from a few different sources that our onstar can not be interchanged with verizon to support hands free calling because we have the fifth version not the all digital 6th version.

C-TX-V
01-19-05, 10:50 PM
Sorry if this has been posted before, but My Dad just got a letter from Onstar saying that on this date, Phone companies are no longer required to handle analogue (sp) and that his Onstar will be no good after that date. I'm assuming our's have yet to be switched to digital? That will kinda suck when you go to sell the car and you tell the people it has Onstar, butcha can't use it.:madtalkin

You mean people actually renew the servcie after the free year?

Seriously...originally, it was GM's plan to evolve the system with AT&T wireless. The first generation of analog On-star equipment used the AMPS (Analog Mobile Phone System) in the 900MHz Cellular A or Cellular B bands. As best I can deduce, the partnership went awry almost immediately due to the high call volumes and since it was analog, it was using the capacity of 3 digital callers for every one On-star call. So AT&T refused or didn't sign any more deals for calling profiles. That's why some cities had personal calling and some didn't. Then I can only assume AT&T refused or didn't extend the contract with On-Star.

So now enter Verizon...They operate in both the Cellular Band A, B and PCS Bands A-F across the country using the digital CDMA (Code Division Multiple Acess) in 900MHz AND 1900MHz. Now in order for the new 6th Gen On-star to work across the country in every Verizon market, it has to be a dual band phone which also requires a dual band antenna. This is the root of the issue of backwards compatibility.

I am 99% sure that you can upgrade to a Gen 6 module by replacing the cell phone module and replacing the antenna with a dual band version. The actual handsfree interface uses a standard microphone, a digital trip to mute the stereo and a conditioned line level into the stereo speakers. I know, I disabled my on-star and interface a standard Nokia with a full hands free car kit.

My last point is that On-star is just another case of GM missing the technology boat. Gen 6 On-star should be a GPRS or 1XRTT high speed wireless digital data/voice device (with Bluetooth). These are good for regular digital telephony and/or ~500kbps of data. You could be reading this forum going down the road...

Gotta do some controlled breathing now...:yup:

JOEYCTS-V
01-19-05, 11:10 PM
Well, receiving calls from Onstar 2-3 times a week is making my decision if I want to renew easier and easier. What is their problem? I listened to them when I first got my car and answered their questions. They still keep calling, and I always say I'm not home. To make things better they ALWAYS seem to call when I'm eating! :annoyed:

ctsvett
01-20-05, 12:02 AM
The actual handsfree interface uses a standard microphone, a digital trip to mute the stereo and a conditioned line level into the stereo speakers. I know, I disabled my on-star and interface a standard Nokia with a full hands free car kit.


You mean you have found a way to interface your nokia car kit with the GM class II serial data that triggers the mute on the radio? I have done alot of research on this and have found no way to make it work.

Reed
http://www.cadillacfaq.com

6104696
01-20-05, 11:02 AM
Unless I decide to drive out to CA a couple of times, my V should be under warranty until May of 2008. If my Onstar should suddenly stop working for ANY reason (assuming I decide to keep paying), I would expect Caddy to honor the warranty and fix it/update it.D

Playdrv4me
01-20-05, 11:11 AM
You mean you have found a way to interface your nokia car kit with the GM class II serial data that triggers the mute on the radio? I have done alot of research on this and have found no way to make it work.

Reed
http://www.cadillacfaq.com

Lexus, Volkswagen, Acura and GM vehicles are all affected by this. I would be happy if you were to get a retrofit, Lexus's idea of a fix is to replace the sunglass holder buttons with a plain sunglass holder... in other words, take the system out completely at no charge. This is fine with me as I feel OS is the biggest gimmick on the face of the planet compared to my cell phone (and smart thieves) and get tired of hearing "The Lexus Link System is not Active, press the Services button to activate your Lexus link system" EVERY DAMN time I start my car.

C-TX-V
01-20-05, 12:55 PM
You mean you have found a way to interface your nokia car kit with the GM class II serial data that triggers the mute on the radio? I have done alot of research on this and have found no way to make it work.

Reed
http://www.cadillacfaq.com (http://www.cadillacfaq.com/)

First some clarification. I did it on my 03 Tahoe. Haven't tried it on the V. I encountered several limitations that I have not yet tried to overcome.

First, on outgoing calls, the steering wheel "Call" button will manually mute the radio and mix the line level from the Nokia handsfree with the attenuated stereo audio. The problem is there is a digital condition that I cannot trace or provide that will let the system know there is an active call. Thus, the mix/muted state times out. Second, on incoming calls, the same digital condition should mix/mute again. Timeout is ~1 minute.

I haven't had time to debug it or make a digital circuit to provide those required states. If I can get around to it, I will do my best to share it with the forum. Also, if your research would lead you to believe that I am headed down the wrong path, I'd appreciate any info.

I have the full schematics for the 03 Tahoe, but I don't have it for the V. Anyone have the full schematics? I don't want to touch the V until I have proper documentation.

dkozloski
01-20-05, 02:02 PM
There is more to OnStar than meets the eye. OnStar, when called, they will tell you that personal caiing is not available in my area(Alaska). But I have had it for several years on several different cars and it works fine. In fact the coverage and reliability exceeds any other local option. The local carrier handling the service has changed a couple of times following mergers, buyouts, and the like but service has been uninterrupted. In my CTS I had some trouble getting service started because the OnStar tech screwed up the download to initialize the cell phone but once I got to talk to someone that knew how a cell phone worked we fixed the problem in less than five minutes. For compensation I got 240 free minutes that never expire and an additional years free subscription. My guess is that when crunch time comes OnStar will provide us all with a seamless solution. Not to worry!

RobzBLKV
01-20-05, 02:20 PM
There is more to OnStar than meets the eye. OnStar, when called, they will tell you that personal caiing is not available in my area(Alaska). But I have had it for several years on several different cars and it works fine. In fact the coverage and reliability exceeds any other local option. The local carrier handling the service has changed a couple of times following mergers, buyouts, and the like but service has been uninterrupted. In my CTS I had some trouble getting service started because the OnStar tech screwed up the download to initialize the cell phone but once I got to talk to someone that knew how a cell phone worked we fixed the problem in less than five minutes. For compensation I got 240 free minutes that never expire and an additional years free subscription. My guess is that when crunch time comes OnStar will provide us all with a seamless solution. Not to worry!

I hope you are right, but I sure would like a seamless solution to the sharing your cell phone minutes plan.

tedcmiller
01-20-05, 03:07 PM
I don't think there is any reason to be concerned about OnStar or your associated in-car cellular phone service when the FCC mandate to keep exisiting analog service up and running expires. Cellular service has been a mixture of analog and digital for many years. Initially all cellular service was analog. When digital cellular was introduced some companies added digital to their analog service (e.g., ALLTEL) and started providing phones that would work with both. Other companies (e.g., Cingular) set up digital-only service. Their phones are also digital-only. So, when a Cingular customer is roaming, they can not get a connection to an analog system. The cellular phone in the 2004 CTS-V works with both analog and digital.

The fact that the FCC mandate will expire does not mean that all services currently supporting analog will shut down their analog equipment as soon as possible. I am sure that the disappearance of analog will occur gradually as the equipment ages and requires replacement. When the analog equipment reaches end-of-life, it will be replaced with digital equipment. Eventually all analog service will be gone, and the analog part of tri-band phone will not be useful. However, the tri-band phones, like those in our CTS-Vs, will continue to operate digitally.

ctsvett
01-20-05, 04:31 PM
First, on outgoing calls, the steering wheel "Call" button will manually mute the radio and mix the line level from the Nokia handsfree with the attenuated stereo audio. The problem is there is a digital condition that I cannot trace or provide that will let the system know there is an active call. Thus, the mix/muted state times out. Second, on incoming calls, the same digital condition should mix/mute again. Timeout is ~1 minute.

I haven't had time to debug it or make a digital circuit to provide those required states. If I can get around to it, I will do my best to share it with the forum. Also, if your research would lead you to believe that I am headed down the wrong path, I'd appreciate any info.



When you press the onstar button in the V, the onstar module sends a packet to the radio over the class II serial bus which tells it to mute/ puase the CD and switch to onstar. THe onstar module then feeds the AMP directly.

The way it sounds like its working in your tahoe, is they have spliced the nokia kit into the wires that go directly to the amp, and when you press the onstar button, its just muting the system and waiting for a onstar call to be initated which never happens so it times out after 1 minute.

Since our radios don't thave a mute wire (it uses the above Class II packet data instead) unelss someone makes a module to send the data to the radio when the onstar button is pressed (or hijack the onstar system), there is no way to mute the radio (other than turning down the volume or manually muting it).

So while we can get the output from a cell phone car kit to go into the stereo, we cannot mute the radio portion separately and therefore will have both the radio and cell phone conversation going on at the same time. If you turned down the radio volume, you would also turn down the cell phone conversation.

I have not been able to figure this out, if someone can shed some more light on this, by all means...

Reed
http://www.cadillacfaq.com

C-TX-V
01-20-05, 07:15 PM
When you press the onstar button in the V, the onstar module sends a packet to the radio over the class II serial bus which tells it to mute/ puase the CD and switch to onstar. THe onstar module then feeds the AMP directly.

The way it sounds like its working in your tahoe, is they have spliced the nokia kit into the wires that go directly to the amp, and when you press the onstar button, its just muting the system and waiting for a onstar call to be initated which never happens so it times out after 1 minute.

Since our radios don't thave a mute wire (it uses the above Class II packet data instead) unelss someone makes a module to send the data to the radio when the onstar button is pressed (or hijack the onstar system), there is no way to mute the radio (other than turning down the volume or manually muting it).

So while we can get the output from a cell phone car kit to go into the stereo, we cannot mute the radio portion separately and therefore will have both the radio and cell phone conversation going on at the same time. If you turned down the radio volume, you would also turn down the cell phone conversation.

I have not been able to figure this out, if someone can shed some more light on this, by all means...

Reed
http://www.cadillacfaq.com

Good info, Reed. :cool:

RobzBLKV
01-20-05, 08:53 PM
The cellular phone in the 2004 CTS-V works with both analog and digital.

Do you know this for a fact? A lot of things don't make any sense at all if it's true.

skfurr
03-18-05, 10:41 AM
Since our radios don't thave a mute wire (it uses the above Class II packet data instead) unelss someone makes a module to send the data to the radio when the onstar button is pressed (or hijack the onstar system), there is no way to mute the radio (other than turning down the volume or manually muting it).

I have not been able to figure this out, if someone can shed some more light on this, by all means...

Reed
http://www.cadillacfaq.com

Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.logjamelectronics.com/soundgmcell.html

I spoke with Soundgate and they said to keep the OnStar as well as add a handsfree kit for a cell phone you'd need to wire a couple of relays into the harness they provide. But their kit is supposed to give you a mute lead to hook to your handsfree kit's mute trigger and patch the audio into the same input that the factory headunit uses for OnStar. In otherwords, the headunit will mute just as if you were using OnStar. The relays are needed so that you don't feed audio back up the wire into the OnStar outputs (or vice-versa.)

Stephen