: Bbob, Purging/exchanging tranny fluid



Aurora5000
01-19-05, 01:39 PM
My 2002 4.0 v8 Aurora has the 4T-80? tranny. Is the fluid exchange as easy as disconnecting the tranny cooling line hose, letting the engine at idle pump out the old fluid while you put in 12 quarts on the top for a purge/exchange? If this is correct, it seems so simple to do.

Thanks,
Steve

:thumbsup:

BeelzeBob
01-19-05, 01:45 PM
Yea, you can do it that way.....but....I wouldn't just pour 12 quarts in on top of the dirty fluid and start it up. You just created 12 more quarts of dirty fluid that way.

If you want to purge all the fluid this is the best way...... drop the bottom pan to clean the screens and inspect and clean the inside of the pan. With the bottom pan off you can drain the side cover with the hidden drain plug to get most of the old fluid out before doing the purge maneuver. Put the pan back on, fill it up with fresh fluid and open the cooler line. Start it up and idle until you see fresh fluid coming thru. You'll likely use more than 12 quarts, though. This way you will not mix your fresh fluid with all the old fluid stored in the side cover.

cart69
01-19-05, 01:47 PM
maybe its just me but i dont really see the benefit of flushing the trans, you still arent replaceing the filter and cleaning the crud out ot the bottom of the pan by doing that, unless you have already done that i would suggest doing it the old fashioned way and take a trans fluid bath and remaove the pan.

turbojimmy
01-19-05, 02:31 PM
maybe its just me but i dont really see the benefit of flushing the trans, you still arent replaceing the filter and cleaning the crud out ot the bottom of the pan by doing that, unless you have already done that i would suggest doing it the old fashioned way and take a trans fluid bath and remaove the pan.

The problem is that dropping the pan only removes a surprisingly small amount of fluid. Removing the drain plug gets more out of the side case (like bbob said), but I've found that I've been able to get only about 8 quarts tops out by doing both. The rest needs pumped out of the torque converter and cooler. I haven't done it yet, but I may use the purge maneuver described above.

Jim

cart69
01-19-05, 02:47 PM
sorry i should have gone a little further with my post, i dont see the benefit of flushing without change the filter as well, i know what you mean about the torque converter and all, my brain just was thinking of the burrito i was eating for lunch!! lol

mcowden
01-19-05, 08:37 PM
my brain just was thinking of the burrito i was eating for lunch!! lol

MMMmmmmm, burritos... :drool: Transmission? What transmission?

Aurora5000
01-20-05, 09:47 AM
Side question Bob...

1. Do I the drain off fluid hot or cold?

2.When I drain bottom and side pans, how many quarts do I put back in before I do the purge maneuvar at idle?

3. How many quarts aprox. should I buy to do this?

4.After I have started the engine at idle, do I put in 1 quart at a time or more at this point?

Thanks for all of your help.
Steve

BeelzeBob
01-20-05, 02:49 PM
It is far easier to work with cold. Since you are dropping the pan to clean it there is no real reason to try and do it hot since you will be getting any particulates out of the pan that might settle when the fluid sits cold....

I think it takes about 12 quarts to refill it after draining the lower pan and side cover with the hidden bolt drainplug for the side cover. I would put the 12 in and start it up if you are going to purge thru the cooler line after dropping the pan.

Start the engine, idle it and start pouring. It will go fast if you want to keep up....LOL....I would just put the 12 quarts in , start it up and idle it and watch the fluid going into the bucket thru a piece of clear tubing. When it is nice and red indicating new fluid, shut it off, connect the cooler line and refill about what went into the bucket....start the engine back up, idle, cycle the trans thru the gears and check the level with the dipstick and start from there filling to the correct level. It sounds like a good idea to pour as fast as the trans is pumping it out but it is hard to do and likely will make a mess. It will not hurt the trans at all if it "sucks air" for a moment idling and you will likely quit before you pump all 12 quarts thru....have a big bucket....so just refilling and starting it up until fresh fluid comes thru is fine. forget about trying to pour and watch and run the engine at the same time.

Hard to say how long you are going to purge and how much fluid will go thru into the bucket. You shouldn't have more than 4 quarts left in the whole trans after a bottom pan and side cover drain so theoretically you should see nice red fluid after 4 quarts from the torque converter has run into the bucket...but it will probably take more. I would get about 20 quarts total I think.....just my estimate to have enough to be able to finish the job.

Aurora5000
01-21-05, 08:25 AM
Will do. All of us on the boards appreciate your help.

Thank you kindly,
Steve

Aurora5000
02-14-05, 09:27 AM
Did fluid exchange this weekend. Worked just fine. After draining of old fluid, I put in topside 8 quarts to start out with. Ran 30 seconds and put in another 6 quarts. Was seeing nice clean red fluid. Put line back on and topped off with another 2 quarts. As you said in the 16 qt. neighborhood.
As a side note, that same day I got a reminder notice from dealership to bring in car for a tranny flush-fill. $149.
Thanks,
Steve

:)

turbojimmy
02-14-05, 09:41 AM
I need to do this - my fluid is still frothy from the water. Ironically, it runs and shifts fine. I've put about 20 miles on the car (I'd put more, but I can only drive around my neighborhood because I don't have legit license plates). Stop-n-go, hard accelleration (love the sound of the V8), light throttle, reverse - works fine under all conditions.

Does the trans get hot enough inside to "boil" off moisture? Just curious.

Anyhow, back on the topic at hand: Which cooler line do I unhook? Top one is easy to get at, bottom not so much. I guess the real question is which line is the "in" line (fluid going into the cooler) and which is the "out" line?

TIA,
Jim

JimD
02-14-05, 10:34 AM
I need to do this - my fluid is still frothy from the water. Ironically, it runs and shifts fine. I've put about 20 miles on the car (I'd put more, but I can only drive around my neighborhood because I don't have legit license plates). Stop-n-go, hard accelleration (love the sound of the V8), light throttle, reverse - works fine under all conditions.

Does the trans get hot enough inside to "boil" off moisture? Just curious.

Anyhow, back on the topic at hand: Which cooler line do I unhook? Top one is easy to get at, bottom not so much. I guess the real question is which line is the "in" line (fluid going into the cooler) and which is the "out" line?

TIA,
Jim

Trans fluid will stabilize at or near the engine coolant temperature. Some water vaporization will occur at 190 to 200 degrees. The top of the rubber vent line might give you a clue to what is vaporizing in your transmission.

My '98 and '04 both return to the transmission from the top line (out) in the cooler. You will find a quick disconnect fitting with a small clip and an even smaller O ring. I fabricated a brass pipe thread fitting to adapt the cooler plumbing to something I could clamp a flex hose to. I have a pix somewhere if you need a look at the adapter I used.

turbojimmy
02-14-05, 10:46 AM
I have a pix somewhere if you need a look at the adapter I used.

That would help if you don't mind digging it up. Otherwise it would just puke it out the top of the cooler all over everything. Unless I can get at the bottom fitting somehow.

Also, once the water and fluid mix to make this pink milkshake, how long do you think it would take to separate again? Is my best bet to drive it around to make sure it's mixed well before purging? Or let the water settle to the bottom and then drain it? The first time I drained it I got water, then oil. Subsequent drains (4 of them) were just trans-fluid looking-stuff (but a little weaker consistency than true Dexron/Mercon).

Thanks!

Jim

JimD
02-14-05, 12:48 PM
Not sure about the moisture that might remain. If you could get it heat soaked on the highway, that would help. Maybe doing the purge several times and getting it hot between purges??

The adapter I used screws into the cooler tank in place of the quick disconnect fitting. Much faster than pulling the pan and enjoying a fluid bath.

I pump the system with the engine at idle and shut off the engine as soon as fluid stops flowing. Takes a little more than 11 quarts to refill.

Good luck.....

turbojimmy
02-14-05, 02:47 PM
JimD - thanks for the info. Is that 5/8" pipe thread?

I'm going to drop the pan anyway. As it sits, the water makes its way to the pan and the bottom of the side case resevoir. I'm going to drain it, fill it, then let it pump out as I dump fresh oil in the fill hole (as bbob described - I think).

Thanks again,
Jim

zonie77
02-15-05, 12:03 PM
Turbojimmy, The moisture will eventually "boil" out but I think you'll cause some damage way before then. Water doesn't lubricate very well. I've been using the flush through the cooler line" for awhile and it works and is fairly easy. In your case I'd definitely drop the pan in case there is some sludge from the water.

turbojimmy
02-15-05, 12:11 PM
Turbojimmy, The moisture will eventually "boil" out but I think you'll cause some damage way before then. Water doesn't lubricate very well. I've been using the flush through the cooler line" for awhile and it works and is fairly easy. In your case I'd definitely drop the pan in case there is some sludge from the water.

Thanks for the info. There isn't any sludge - I've dropped the pan so many times now I've lost count. I've removed and put back in probably about 10 gallons of fluid. I've thrown off Wal*Mart's inventory procedures for the stuff. I bought it all, they were out for a while, now it's overstocked!

The fluid always appears a bit milky and thin but never anything foriegn in there. The screens aren't catching anything either. It doesn't take much water to dilute it, but even a little water is bad. The only way to get it all out is to have the pump pump it out and I dump more in I guess.

Jim

Aurora5000
02-15-05, 01:09 PM
Hey jim...stupid question....how did the water get into tranny?

turbojimmy
02-15-05, 02:28 PM
Hey jim...stupid question....how did the water get into tranny?

The car was completely submerged in a flood. See here:
http://www.turbojimmy.com/dts/dts.html

Jim

JimHare
02-15-05, 09:27 PM
The car was completely submerged in a flood. See here:
http://www.turbojimmy.com/dts/dts.html
Jim

I, along with many hundreds if not thousands of others, have been watching this particular automotive drama with, at least for me, incredulous admiration. TJ, you deserve some kind of prize/award/recognition for the Augean task you appear to have pretty much successfully completed.

It boggles the mind that not only did you get nearly the entire car disassembled, but you got it back together again. Not since I tore my old '71 Fiat 124 Spyder down to the bare block have I seen such an assemblage of parts scattered around a garage.

Huzzahs and Cheerios to you, and also to your long-suffering spouse, I'm sure.!!!

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

turbojimmy
02-16-05, 06:23 AM
Thank you JimHare. While it was apart my wife would look out in the garage and say she wanted to puke and cry at the same time (it's a good thing she didn't look in the basement!). I felt the same way a lot of the time. The job was a bit overwhelming at times. I can't believe I'm at the point where I'm saying "the job was....". The heavy lifting is behind me now, barring a transmission failure. I've already lined up estimates for a used unit and R&R, though. I'm not taking that on myself. Hopefully it will hold together tho.

I bought a flared elbow yesterday, but me thinks it's too big. It's 1/2" and by looking at the pic it appears as if that's probably a 3/8" fitting. I haven't looked at the car yet - that will tell me for sure. I also bought 10 feet of clear plastic tubing and 5 gallons of fluid. I think I'm good to go.....I'm going to give it a whirl over this coming weekend. I really hate the stench and mess of trans fluid. Hopefully this last fluid change will be the charm.

Next week my title should be here and I'll be on the road.

Jim

zonie77
02-16-05, 03:59 PM
I've used the coolant line flush and it's worked well on other cars...if it doesn't clean it out you got other problems!

Are you inviting us to the party when you finish?

turbojimmy
02-16-05, 04:40 PM
I've used the coolant line flush and it's worked well on other cars...if it doesn't clean it out you got other problems!

Are you inviting us to the party when you finish?

I have a can of that flush but I haven't tried it. I need to get the old stuff out first.

I hadn't planned a party really. Was just going to smash a bottle of champagne over the bow. Or not. The headlights are new.

Jim

turbojimmy
02-20-05, 11:25 AM
So I did the flush this morning!

It was cake - I'm glad I did it myself. Instead of using the elbow in the picture, I used a straight-type fitting with the 1/2" flared fitting on one end and 1/2" pipe fitting on the other end. After cutting the 1/8" off the end of the flared fitting I couldn't get it started in the cooler. The threads were okay, it just seemed different somehow. So I put the pipe fitting side of the brass thing into the cooler. I tightened it finger-tight so as not to booger up the fitting on the cooler. Put the plastic hose on and I was set. The fitting leaked a little, but no more than a rag couldn't mop up.

At idle, I let it pump the strawberry milkshake out. It looked bad. At least it was a thick milkshake - not like when I first got the car. After about a gallon pumped out it started gurgling. I added fresh stuff to the fill. Let it pump 'til it gurgled again. Lather, rinse, repeat until the 5 gallon bucket was full of fluid (not sure what to do with it now, actually). As I poured the 3rd gallon of fresh stuff into the trans it started looking really good - the stuff coming out looked like the stuff I was pouring in. When the 5 gal bucket was full I shut the car off. The fluid was low so I put a quart in it. Drove it a couple of miles and checked the fluid again - looks great; just like it should. No bubbles, no frothing, no milkshake.

Thanks all!

Jim

JimD
02-20-05, 11:39 AM
Great feeling, right??

Any auto parts place that recycles engine oil should also accept trans. fluid. At least they do in GA.

turbojimmy
02-20-05, 12:06 PM
Great feeling, right??

Any auto parts place that recycles engine oil should also accept trans. fluid. At least they do in GA.

I should've done it this way in the first place. Dropping the pan over and over again is for the birds. It's messy and wasn't really getting at the root of the problem.

The local Wal*Mart takes oil. They'll probably take trans fluid too. The tricky part will be transferring it to the empty containers without making a huge mess of things. I was surprised at how clean the job was overall - that may change with the disposal part of the effort.

Jim

CPO Coastie
02-20-05, 12:25 PM
If you have a kerosene siphon that would help a lot in transferring the tranny fluid. If you don't have one - you can buy one at Wally World (WalMart) for cheap. Hell of a lot easier than trying to lift and balance a 5 gallon bucket of fluid. Those siphon things do come in handy for other purposes also.

Congrats on what should have been an impossible project!

turbojimmy
02-20-05, 01:49 PM
If you have a kerosene siphon that would help a lot in transferring the tranny fluid. If you don't have one - you can buy one at Wally World (WalMart) for cheap. Hell of a lot easier than trying to lift and balance a 5 gallon bucket of fluid. Those siphon things do come in handy for other purposes also.

Congrats on what should have been an impossible project!

Thanks!

I have a hand-pump somewhere that I used to put oil back in manual transmissions and rears. I forgot about that. <off to search the garage>

Jim

cl1986
02-17-06, 10:26 AM
The car was completely submerged in a flood. See here:
http://www.turbojimmy.com/dts/dts.html

Jim

Holly crap turbo, how much do u have into that GN??

Guess i have some work to do, my monte just got a sbc 400 in it last year.

Looks great!!!

davesdeville
02-18-06, 08:07 AM
Hmm, beezlebob... Glad some of it's finally coming back.