My 1990 seville has a horrible knocking noise in the engine which still runs. i'm afraid to drive it to a shop tho, fearing it will freeze up on the way.
It is in pristine condition otherwise. Only 113k miles.
Anyone with an opinion on whether to have major engine work done or engine replaced?

thanks so much for any input.

John A

What motor is in it?

with out hearing it for my self I can't really give you any ideas of what it would be.

It's either a 4.5 or a 4.9 and I would say it very much depends on the condition of the car. The engines mentioned are essentially the same 4.9 is basically a stroked 4.5 and they are VERY reliable engines indeed. If you are planning on keeping the car and don't mind throwing some cash at it then by all means rebuild or repair or replace the engine as far as value a GOOD used '90/'91 Seville out here goes for 4 to 5 K depending on condition. What's it gonna cost? Is it worth it to you? are the questions you need to answer. Their are some exchange engine rebuilders out there that are good....Do your homework! Ask people you think won't feed you a line of half truths and nonsense! Good luck with it!

Yes, do your research. If it will cost 2000 to replace the engine, go for it. You may even be able to find a used engine that would be cheaper, but i would go for the swap or rebuild. You may just go ahead and have it towed to the shop, and they will be able to figure out what is wrong. Im sure that as soon as they hear the knock their gonna want to do serious work. Fortunately, the 4.5 or 4.9 is completely rebuildable, unlike the northstar :-( . You may try putting in some higher octane fuel until you can get it fixed.

The only things that i can think of that might be wrong is: 1. using too low an octane fuel, or 2. The knock sensors could be bad, and therefore not retarding the spark enough to compensate for the knock. I can not guarntee the accuracy of these diagnosies, but that is what comes to mind.

got oil pressure?

If we're talking about a severe mechanical knock here I.E./ Rod/ Main or wrist pen to name a few. Do not drive this car! At this point your engine is rebuildable/exchangeable more than likely. If you drive it till you have a catastrophic failure and wind up with a hole in the block you will have a MUCH bigger repair bill! Have it towed to a shop and find out what the problem is before you drive it again!

If it is only denotation (ie spark knock, ping) it could be driven very carefully and a very short distance to a repair shop. other wise you could burn a hole through the piston. But from the way you describe it, it sounds more like a rod bearing or wrist pin. To me if it is as bad as you describe it sounds like you have lost oil pressure some how and spun a bearing

got an estimate for an exchange engine install. 4500 to4800.
i can buy a good used seville for that amount.
so i'm gonna just sell the car in broken condition.
i have no idea what to ask for it....probably just "best offer"

the body/paint is in pristine condition.

One thing you should check prior to throwing in the towel;
The Caddy engines are VERY suceptable to "carbon-knock". There's no guarantee that it's carbon and NOT a bad rod, or main bearing but, it's certainly worth a little time and a few dollars to find out. Two products I have used to remove the carbon build-up are 1) Hydra-Valve-Kleen, actually an oil additive sold at auto parts and marketed for quieting noisey lifters, and 2) GM Top-Engine Cleaner, which is specifically marketed for carbon removal.
In either case, you want to position the car away from the house (because after this procedure it's going to smoke like hell) , warm the engine if possible and then pour 1/2-3/4 of the can into the intake with the engine running. Some engines are harder than others to figure a way to get the fluid into the engine but you need to get it in fast enough to stall the engine, but not fast enough to hydra-lock it. If the engine doesn't stall by this point, shut it down and then let it sit. (CAREFUL: DO NOT POUR ANYTHING INTO ENGINE AFTER SHUT-DOWN) About 10-15min. later, fire it up and pour the rest of the can through the engine to help 'flush' out deposits. If you're lucky, at this point the knock will be gone. The engine WILL be smoking quite a bit but that will taper off and stop after a little while. Then I take it out and give it a good "blowing-out" by doing a couple full-throttle runs.
I know this may sound strange but, a carbon knock can easily be mistaken for a bearing knock.
If for some reason the engine IS shot, the only option I would consider unless you REALLY want to dump a lot off money is to get a junkyard motor.

Thanks for the useful info Kevin. I was going to have a mobile mechanic come by and check it out. How does one diagnose a bad rod-bearing? does it show up with a compression test?
I could do that myself i suppose.

Is it ok to start the engine even for just a few moments?

All fluid levels are ok.

A good honest mechanic will be able to diagnose the problem with very little trouble and then you'll know where you stand. There are quite a few junkyard motors around to be had at a realitivly low price. We have a Cadillac specialty place here in this area called Cads Only and he always has 4.9/4.5 motors in stock. He also has take out Northstars most of the time and lots and lots of hard to find body and interior parts! If you need more info let me know and I'll post his phone #.

If that fluid that katshot doesnt work, then maybe you should go ahead and go for the swap, unless it turns out to be another, less severe problem. I would see if you could arrange another mechanic to come out for a "second opinion".

I had a mobile mech come out today and he says i'm lucky that it is the water pump. I would never have guessed that since I just had it replaced a few months ago.

So the engine is ok.....BIG sigh of relief for sure!

thanks for your help in getting to the bottom of this issue.

sincerely,
John

So he put on a water pump, and now it runs like a dream? I cant see how a new water pump would cause an engine to stop knocking, unless it was overheating.

glad it was something "cheap" and glad to hear its running good

Sometimes the parts you get at the local auto parts store wind up leaving a lot to be desired. It's generally better to pay the difference and get a GOOD part from a dealer or some other source of factory parts. I most always try to keep my car O.E.M. the only exceptions being Tires, Batteries, Brake pads and the like. But for actual hard parts I stay with Genuine G.M. parts!

I'm glad you "got off easy". It is hard to diagnose bearing knocks on these new aluminum engines. Obviously the knock was just a noise made by the pump?
BTW, if you ever want to know which cylinder is knocking, just pull plug wires off one at a time until you find one that stops or reduces the knock when off. That will be the bad cylinder.

I do all of my own mechanical work on my cars, and I enthusiastically agree with kcnewell. It isn't worth the hassle of using non-oem parts.

Do a little research online. Turns out OEM parts aren't all that much more expensive. www.partsamerica.com carries some, as does www.rockauto.com. There are also online GM dealers www.gmpartsdirect.com and www.gmpartsdealer.com (among others). You may have to wait a day or two, but if you plan your maintenance, you can use all oem and spend about as much as the local parts discounter.

I've had bad parts from the local place. Sure, they replaced them free of charge, but it cost me all that wasted time putting it in and taking it back out. One experience like that makes the discount not seem so important - I had it happen on a power steering rack and that's no fun to do twice.

This is especially true on a Cadillac, where sometimes parts from other GM divisions "look" like they "fit", but they aren't exactly the same.

there are also differences in parts store quality among different chains. I won't buy Autozone because they carry the poorer made parts while others like Advance seem to cary parts made by people I know of.

Fortunately, I havent had the opportunity to go buy parts for my cars, but i am sure the day is coming!!!!

lol it will, it wil,l be patient :D

this is one of those experiences i hope i dont have to experience.

its all part of the car ownership "experience" :D

or you can just get rid of cars before the warranty is up like me!!!! With the exception of the fleetwood.

lol thats cheating :D

Its not cheating, it is making the rules work for you! Or using the system to your advantage.

how much of a hit do you take in depreciation though?

The GTP is a lease, and the tahoe isnt too bad. I had one before, and I usually end up oweing like 10k, not bad for 4 years of service. They usually give more if there is warranty left on it. And the fleetwood, besides the fact that it is my favorite car, it is going to be more worthwhile to keep it than sell it, since i could only get about 12k out of it anyway, and it is perfect in every way, the only way it could be better is if i prepped it for car shows, and it isnt ready for that.

Thats how I figured you did it with 3 cars. me I cant see ever getting rid of a car. if I buy it Im going to keep it if I want something new I'll buy another.

1 lease is good, cuz then you have something to beat when you have rage to get out. The tahoe i need because i live in indiana, and the roads arent always perfect :) . And the fleetwood, you have to have the baby!!!!