: Interesting Intercooler Pumps Data - 2 is better than one



GizmoQ
05-20-13, 08:19 PM
The attached link describes the authors testing of several intercooler pumps individually and running two or three of them in series. (For Shawn: I think you should run your new pump in series after your existing pump)

http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/gonna-pump-you-up-intercooler-pumps-in-series-to-maximize-cooling-motorama/

Lingenfelter also ran some tests comparing different pumps that was also enlightening.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/LPEforumfiles/showthread.php?2029-Intercooler-pump-flow-testing-results

Given the info on the two links and the tests that I have done to improve my IAT/IAT2 temps, I don't know if anyone here is desperate enough to drop $550 for the Stewart-EMP intercooler pump reprogrammed for higher pump output. I wish I had known putting two pumps in series was an acceptable option cause there was absolutely nothing wrong with my Bosch pump that I upgraded to the Meziere 20GPM pump. Given that I now have the Super Chiller this is a mute point for me, but I wanted to share this data with the forum.

The only info I can't seem to find is the pressure data for our motors. I assume given the fittings we use its somewhere between 1-4PSI with the Bosch pump and 1-6PSI with the Meziere and Jabsco pumps. My only tests were with the car idling between Dyno runs and the Meziere pump was twice as efficient as the Bosch one which is consistent with the LPE graph at low pressure.

rbzstsv
05-20-13, 09:38 PM
I'm definitely interested in more information on this topic. I believe TimC or PGA2B might have the answers your looking for. Good luck with your findings

PGA2B
05-21-13, 12:23 AM
I am using the Jabsco and my flow is better than stock and my temps show it. I pulled my fill cap and watched the flow with both pumps and the stock pump flowed what looked like a stream the size of a ball point pen. With the Jabsco the flow was like a sharpe. Mine my not be the best flow out there but it works for me and was only $150 at the time.

GizmoQ
05-21-13, 02:26 AM
I am using the Jabsco and my flow is better than stock and my temps show it. I pulled my fill cap and watched the flow with both pumps and the stock pump flowed what looked like a stream the size of a ball point pen. With the Jabsco the flow was like a sharpe. Mine my not be the best flow out there but it works for me and was only $150 at the time.

I see the same kinda difference, but as in my first post that's at almost no pressure (Idle). Does the pressure build with engine RPMs? Do you think it would be even better with both pumps in series? Is there room for both pumps?

Fierofiend
05-21-13, 09:28 AM
I don't like that they changed the tube diameter based on each pump. How can you compare the flow rate of two pumps with one flowing through a .75" hose and another through a 1.5" or 2" hose. Who really runs 1.5 or 2" hose on their cars? I understand they were measuring 'gpm', but without knowing their test setup, I'm not sure how much I trust it. Are they simply measuring the volume that flows into a bucket after their restriction, and calculating that vs time? Are they measuring 'velocity' with respect to the area?

They mentioned the 'restriction valve' so I assume they measure 'pressure' before and after the restriction valve to calculate flow, but I'm not exactly sure.

boomys10
05-21-13, 09:37 AM
ill just install mine in series and see what happens, since I do have it sitting on my work bench. lol. waiting for the heat xchanger as soon as I find someone with a damnd paypal account down here. I don't like credit and wont get a card to use paypal, slight hiccup when ordering stuff from timmyc

TimmyC
05-21-13, 01:53 PM
ill just install mine in series and see what happens, since I do have it sitting on my work bench. lol. waiting for the heat xchanger as soon as I find someone with a damnd paypal account down here. I don't like credit and wont get a card to use paypal, slight hiccup when ordering stuff from timmyc

you can send me a money order too.

I'm going to check out the data. Maybe I'll start carrying pumps.

----------

looks like that jabsco pump is the cheapest single pump option. the zl1 pump is my preference for reliability though.

GizmoQ
05-21-13, 03:22 PM
I'm going to check out the data. Maybe I'll start carrying pumps.

looks like that jabsco pump is the cheapest single pump option. the zl1 pump is my preference for reliability though.

From the LPE data, the Varimax seems to be the best value. But, there are way too many other variables to consider. For example, Bruce Nunnally interjected more variables into the Camaro5 discussion on this data (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6425056&postcount=25). and added the system characteristic curve (the black line) for the stock or modified intercooler system to LPE's graph which really confuses the issue:

http://www.caddyinfo.com/cadillacs/Intercooler%20pump%20flow%20vs%20pressure%20drop%2 0graph%20WM%20with%20pump%20curve%20estimate.jpg

That black line is his representation of "HIS" system. Each of us is using different HX, tanks, etc., so this line would be different for each configuration. Based on the TLAR (that looks about right) estimates from PGA2B and I, that line would be twice as steep and twice as high for his and my configurations.

LPE did better explain his bar graph in the Camaro5 discussions stating that:
"the data from the bar graph is tested in the ZL1 system configuration with just changing the pump alone from test to test."
So that eliminates the issues with hose diameter on the other graph, but the ZL1 is significantly different from the LC3.

AriGold.
05-21-13, 11:23 PM
I also just bought the jebsco pump and installed it last week. I basically copied what PGA has for cooling mods. (Hes been helping me)

I also picked up two other things that should be here tomorrow.

Flex-a-lite 45321Heat exchange and WAT001026 Inter cooler

PGA2B
05-22-13, 12:01 AM
I am also surprised that they didn't test the Jabsco since it is the most popular upgrade in pumps.

Giz- I couldn't leave the cap off after idle as the flow was too much and wanted to surge. We have some room to put another one in series but honestly my set up works much better than stock and even in the desert my temps are under control so I'm done there. I am not going to do much more as I am waiting on the V3 CTS-V.

AriGold.
05-22-13, 01:33 AM
I am also surprised that they didn't test the Jabsco since it is the most popular upgrade in pumps.

Giz- I couldn't leave the cap off after idle as the flow was too much and wanted to surge. We have some room to put another one in series but honestly my set up works much better than stock and even in the desert my temps are under control so I'm done there. I am not going to do much more as I am waiting on the V3 CTS-V.


Mine won't surge.. hmm.

boomys10
05-22-13, 01:06 PM
why did you buy a heat xchanger AND intercooler? havent heard of anyone else running both. only a heat xchanger.
PGA you running this exact setup? i was thinking about buying the timmyc heat xchanger, but if there is an intercooler option available would prolly do that instead.

TimmyC
05-22-13, 01:47 PM
I'm sure they are using those terms interchangeably. Intercooler is not the correct name but lots of people use it that way.

Fierofiend
05-22-13, 01:53 PM
We can't easily change our intercooler as its built into the "powerpack"

PGA2B
05-23-13, 12:32 AM
why did you buy a heat xchanger AND intercooler? havent heard of anyone else running both. only a heat xchanger.
PGA you running this exact setup?

I wanted better capacity and heat removal so I have two Heat Exchangers. One to replace the stock and one front mount exchanger. The "Intercooler" is the Luminova cores in the lid and man I sure wish we could replace them with something more efficient.

boomys10
05-23-13, 01:42 AM
do you have the temps from your setup and maybe tim can post the temps from his? seems tims is slightly more expensive, but easier to install. wondering which would be better money spent between the two setups.

PGA2B
05-23-13, 10:27 AM
Cruise:
IAT: 1-4* above ambient
IAT2: 20-30* above ambient

WOT:
IAT: 0-2* Above ambient
IAT2: 20-30* Above IAT

Stop and Go traffic:
FORGET IT!! Need a fan on the heat exchanger to move the air.

The biggest difference from stock is the cool down time. I can get back to normal operating temps within a minute. Remember it gets pretty hot in the desert too! Most I have ever seen in a WOT run is 147*, 13psi boos, and ambient was over 100*. Tim's is a very good set up too. If you want to keep your money in the community and for ease of installation get Tim's. What I put in was total custom and took time and skill to install.

Either way I don't have a dog in this fight!!

boomys10
05-23-13, 11:04 AM
never doubted tims quality or ease of install. im looking more for the best options available and want to see what others have done/end results. i wasted enough money before and wont do it again with trail and error stuff. i know what im doing with mine, at least to finish this year out. but want to get it all together then buy it all.

AriGold.
05-23-13, 01:22 PM
We are doing the install on my car tomorrow. I will post photos.

boomys10
05-23-13, 02:25 PM
sounds great. cant wait to see it arigold.