: Actual Cadillac CTS production numbers for 2009, 2010 and 2011



Random84
05-20-13, 06:05 PM
Per Cadillac: assist@cadillac.com

------------------------------------
In response to your inquiry regarding the production numbers, we have listed below the available information:

2009 CTS (All) - 59,716

2010 CTS (All) - 40,100

Sedan - 36,548

Wagon - 3,552

2011 CTS (All) - 57,943

Sedan - 40,591

Coupe - 15,715

Wagon - 1,637
-------------------------------------

NOTE: these numbers are all inclusive, and do not differentiate between V series or transmissions, etc.

I'd approximate CTSV production to be less than 10% of the numbers above (2009 CTSV production was approximately 3500 from other sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_CTS-V#cite_note-25)). I'd also assume 85% of all vehicles to be automatic transmissions.

ptrd
05-20-13, 07:23 PM
That's pretty neat, thanks!

theamcguy
05-20-13, 08:28 PM
Thank you very much, that helps.

mpouls1
05-20-13, 08:57 PM
:lies: Just kidding. Thank you.

RippyPartsDept
05-20-13, 09:10 PM
I think manual trans builds are probably even less than your estimate. Or the autos are more prevalent than you estimate.

Random84
05-20-13, 09:32 PM
I think manual trans builds are probably even less than your estimate. Or the autos are more prevalent than you estimate.

I'm sure that my estimates are high, but since most of us will do a straight conversion for wagons, etc - I figure its best to be cautious just in case a bunch of people ordered manual wagons for the novelty or something.

But yeah, 10% might be more realistic I just have nothing to support it.

neuronbob
05-20-13, 09:39 PM
Great numbers. Now if only we had the actual V numbers. GM releases the CTS numbers in aggregate, not differentiating between body types and V-series, so this is the first time we've seen these numbers.

No 2012 or 2013 breakdowns? :)

Random84
05-20-13, 10:32 PM
Great numbers. Now if only we had the actual V numbers. GM releases the CTS numbers in aggregate, not differentiating between body types and V-series, so this is the first time we've seen these numbers.

No 2012 or 2013 breakdowns? :)

The heavily accented Cadillac Customer Service rep was reporting the numbers that she had. She specifically mentioned that 2012 and `13 numbers have not been released yet. I'm sure the month-by-month list, broken down by color, trans, options and body style are sitting on a mid-level exec's desk somewhere, but of course because of the low numbers and niche market they won't be released for years.

Nonetheless, I was flabbergasted at the remarkably low number of wagons produced en total: 9.9% in 2010 (first year of production) and dropping to under 3% the second year... Less than 1650 TOTAL (CTS/CTSV) wagons for 2011? That's crazy.

Recalling my post from the other thread on production numbers, it looks more and more plausible that less than 2,000 total CTSV Wagons will be built, with only a fraction of those being manual transmission vehicles. I do expect the 2013 year to have a relative increase in CTSV numbers, since we all thought it was the end of the line... but even with a 50% increase in CTSV Wagon sales year over year accounting for the enthusiasts, you're talking maybe a hundred additional units if you're generous.

After all, the Motor Trend video I linked to (other thread (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-2013-cadillac-cts-v-general/290322-anyone-here-have-pull-cadillac-we-2.html)) stated only 447 V Wagons were made over two years (likely `10 and `11 model years) - so out of 5189 total Wagons, 447 were V series... or about 8.6% of all wagons in those two years were CTSV's and likely dropping in popularity for the following years. Thus, I expect 2012 to be a low numbers year comparable to 2011; and `13 is anyone's guess but I'd expect it also to be rather low overall for CTSV sales given the CTS line was declining significantly (as in -43% YoY) in popularity relative to the new models rolling out which are usurping the overall volume of Cadillac growth.

To recap: if what we know is true... less than 10% of all Wagons are V's of any color or transmission. Extrapolate down to manual wagons... we're all going to be rich when we roll our manual transmission Unicorns through Mecum in a few years!

:D

----------

Here's some completely made-up numbers I'm playing with.

Total CTS units of any variant: 60K in 2009, then 40K, then 58K in 2011, we'll say 50K in 2012 and we know there was a 43% drop for 2013 - or around maybe 35K units for 2013, which gives us approximately 243,000 units total production - and I think my approximations are going to prove rather generous for the later year volume. I'll assume the `14 model year for CTSV's is so minute as to be a rounding error (with no CTS production to account for).

CTSV (any style) seems to be less than 10% of that - or around 24,000 total best-case scenario (which I expect will be very optimistic, since I'm using the 2009 percentage and first-year sales always run strong). Perhaps 7-8% total would be more realistic, or around 18,500 total CTSV's. The vast majority of these will be sedans (80+ %). Coupes are also a strong seller, but I expect significant declines for 2012MY and later.

For us Wagon enthusiasts, using the known values in my first post, CTS/CTSV wagons are 5.3% of all CTS/CTSV production from my first post - or 12,800 total CTS/CTSV wagons for all production years combined.

Given the CTSV ratios (again, likely markedly less than 8.6% of all wagons produced given the decline in sales over a multi-year run), I wind up with a CTSV wagon estimation of around 1,100 units.

So I think my first guess of 1200-1500 Wagons is probably pretty close and well within my approximations above. Even if we say 30% of all CTSV wagons are manuals - which is an absurd number - there are going to be around 500 manual CTSV wagons (or less) of any option level ever built. I really think the total number of manual tranmission wagons will be less than 15% (under 250 vehicles)* , because at the end of the day very few people have the desire or the means to buy a slush-box wagon for daily-driver duty.

* Remember, this post is just me taking heavily extrapolated guesses based on approximations of the first post.

To make it even crazier, VMoose noted that the Stealth Blue wagon he was looking at was going to be a 1 of 49 vehicle. And that Glacier Blue Vagon someone bought - will it be a one-off car? :O

neuronbob
05-20-13, 11:37 PM
^^^^
Sounds reasonable to me.

Someone from Cadillac Corporate, who knows all the numbers hands down, is probably laughing at us trying to figure out production, though.

If only it weren't a big secret...

RobbE
05-21-13, 12:59 AM
That's cool..... My 13' TG manual wagon just became a keeper

Random84
05-21-13, 08:25 AM
^^^^
Sounds reasonable to me.

Someone from Cadillac Corporate, who knows all the numbers hands down, is probably laughing at us trying to figure out production, though.

If only it weren't a big secret...

They're either laughing, or thinking "damn, how did they get that close?" :D

The really funny part is that I think 50% of all manual wagon owners must be members on these forums...

DiamondWhtV
05-21-13, 12:17 PM
Good information above. I bet Cadillac's competitors have done the same number crunching as Random did. Still don't see why the secret with production numbers anyway. I can understand keeping it a secret the first couple of years, but the CTS-V has shown to be very successful and other OEM's have already responded in like with their models. Don't see the need to be so secretive anymore.

Random84
05-21-13, 12:52 PM
If someone was motivated enough, it wouldn't be terribly hard to go through the dealer advertisements on various websites where they show all of the active dealer listings with VIN, color, transmission, etc.

Having someone spend just a few hours every month recording the basic info attached to a VIN would give you a pretty accurate picture of national sales with very few errors (as the VIN could be used to remove duplicate sales) and you'd be able to break it down in rather good detail. This is something that could easily be coded for with software depending on the websites used... heck, it probably already is.

So I think Cadillac's pursuit of secrecy is largely futile given the low numbers, the easy access of information online and of course the heavily advertised online listings with VIN, etc that can be quickly culled by someone motivated to do so.

Xaqtly
05-21-13, 01:43 PM
I pretty much agree with all of that. Despite the fact that I am aware of three V wagons in Vegas alone, plus a lot of people here on the board seem to be buying V wagons, I think it's definitely within the realm of possibility that there are less than 300 manual V wagons out there, total. I ran some made up numbers like that last year, and came up with similar results.

On a related tangent, I have a friend that somehow got access to BMW's internal records for production numbers, and he learned that he actually owns a one-off 330i - it's the only one in the country with a manual transmission, his color/interior color combo, the ZHP option pack and the other options it has. I thought that was cool, I'd love to be able to see the actual numbers for our cars.

spearfish25
05-21-13, 05:40 PM
I'm guessing I have the only Glacier Blue manual V-wagon with red calipers ever made. :)

Trapspeed
05-21-13, 05:48 PM
Nice! And where in the Sunshine State are you located? I'm near Orlando.

Jinx
05-22-13, 12:07 AM
A unique configuration is not much of a stretch, for a BMW or for a CTS-V. Consider the CTS-V with its extremely short list of options still has 6,912 unique configurations in the 2013 model year, per body style. (Not including wheel locks, floor mats, cargo tray, or luggage rack.) Really, pick an unpopular color and you're halfway there :)

VMoose
05-22-13, 03:28 AM
I'm guessing I have the only Glacier Blue manual V-wagon with red calipers ever made. :)

Wow, that looks great! Love the satin graphite rims and red calipers.

spearfish25
05-22-13, 07:33 AM
Thanks. I'm in Chicago at the moment. Moving to Ft. Myers, FL come July 1. Planning out a circuitous trip to Florida so I include a day for the Tail of the Dragon.

Tro Budden
05-22-13, 04:11 PM
my 09 thunder grey 6m with carbon interrior and moonroof should be rare enough then

Bigron
05-22-13, 05:49 PM
I was told 5 of every 6 CTS-V's had an automatic which is very close to your estimate.

Random84
05-30-13, 10:27 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLMfyKPCEAEkX3N.jpg:large

Tweeted photo regarding (presumed) total CTSV sales numbers. Look to the lower right-hand area beneath the video window... and - for wagons at least - this is a shameless bump of "ah ha!" regarding my guesstimations on page 1.

I am surprised at the sedan/coupe #'s though.


Cross link to the other thread linking to this tweet in case someone googles this in the future:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-2013-cadillac-cts-v-general/297241-1-200-cts-v-wagons-2.html#post3407321

stl_ls1gto
05-30-13, 03:14 PM
I am pretty sure mine is 1of1 without getting that deep into options

13 wagon M6 white diamond with light interior - probably not more than 5 with this combo, but factor in the black wheels, red calipers, no sunroof, with recaro seats, suede package, black saple wood, and that pretty much seals the deal.....plus I ordered it with the engine block heater and the roof rails to seal the deal.

this car was relatively easy to spec a 1 of 1 car because of the low production numbers with the wagon

Jinx
05-31-13, 08:56 AM
The wagon I drove at Spring Mountain in March was white diamond, light interior, manual, Recaros, no sunroof, suede, wood... but silver calipers and wheels, so you're safe :)

stl_ls1gto
05-31-13, 10:09 AM
The wagon I drove at Spring Mountain in March was white diamond, light interior, manual, Recaros, no sunroof, suede, wood... but silver calipers and wheels, so you're safe :)

sweet

elphil
05-31-13, 05:28 PM
The first V Wagons were 2011 MY. I had a '10 standard wagon and ordered the '11 V Wagon first week orders were being accepted in September 2010.

Remlap
06-27-13, 10:51 AM
I have a 2011 Evolution Green Metallic V Wagon. Does anyone else own a V wagon in that color? 11 is the only year it was available.

Random84
06-27-13, 01:31 PM
The first V Wagons were 2011 MY. I had a '10 standard wagon and ordered the '11 V Wagon first week orders were being accepted in September 2010.

Oops - good call, I could have sworn they were offered in 2010, but production started in 2010 for Model Year `11 and up.

So yeah, that makes the 0.5% of total production number even more plausible... or around 1200 units total give or take.

vigilante
07-11-13, 12:49 AM
I have a 2011 Evolution Green Metallic V Wagon. Does anyone else own a V wagon in that color? 11 is the only year it was available.

I know Andy Pilgrim (#8 car) had one for a driver last year.

miroad
07-11-13, 11:47 PM
I have a '10 CTS Wagon (Crystal Red, Premium) and have a '14 V wagon on order (TPW 30 Sept., 6-speed manual, recaros, sunroof, obsession red). Interesting to learn that I'll have one of perhaps 500 V wagons with a manual transmission. I can't wait for October delivery (I want patience and I want it now)!

Bridgette2013
07-11-13, 11:49 PM
Per Cadillac: assist@cadillac.com

------------------------------------
In response to your inquiry regarding the production numbers, we have listed below the available information:

2009 CTS (All) - 59,716

2010 CTS (All) - 40,100
Sedan - 36,548
Wagon - 3,552

2011 CTS (All) - 57,943
Sedan - 40,591
Coupe - 15,715
Wagon - 1,637
-------------------------------------

NOTE: these numbers are all inclusive, and do not differentiate between V series or transmissions, etc.

I'd approximate CTSV production to be less than 10% of the numbers above (2009 CTSV production was approximately 3500 from other sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_CTS-V#cite_note-25)). I'd also assume 85% of all vehicles to be automatic transmissions.

2013's ?

Cadillac Cust Svc
07-12-13, 11:37 AM
I have a '10 CTS Wagon (Crystal Red, Premium) and have a '14 V wagon on order (TPW 30 Sept., 6-speed manual, recaros, sunroof, obsession red). Interesting to learn that I'll have one of perhaps 500 V wagons with a manual transmission. I can't wait for October delivery (I want patience and I want it now)!

Hello miroad,

That is exciting to hear! October will be here before you know it. I bet you are very anxious to get your 2014 V Wagon in your hands, especially with it being a manual transmission. I know you will have a great time with this vehicle!

Laura M.
Cadillac Customer Care

V Wagon
05-16-14, 04:31 PM
Have any actual V production numbers ever been posted? I tried searching but didn't really find anything. It seems like the problem with getting those is just finding someone that cares with access to the right system.

Here are some numbers based on sales. So, if there are 2012 or 2013 models sitting new on dealer lots still, which AutoTrader says there are, those are not included, I've included the number shown there, not sure how many dealers don't use autoTrader at this point but there may be additional cars. That said, here are the numbers I have access to. There are still quite a few 14's sitting on lots, so even though sedans have been out of production since fall '13 numbers don't seem worth trying to list yet.
Year Body -- Trans Number New In AutoTrader
2011 Wagon Manual 108
2011 Wagon All ---- 390
2012 Wagon Manual 137
2012 Wagon All ----572 ----- 1
2013 Wagon Manual 121
2013 Wagon All ----391 ----- 1
2011 Coupe All ----3216
2012 Coupe All ---- 2278 ---- 3
2013 Coupe All ----1441 ---- 9
2009 Sedan All ---- 3008
2010 Sedan All ---- 1742
2011 Sedan All ---- 2079
2013 Sedan All ---- 1087 ---- 9
2012 Sedan All ---- 2002

Don't assume that because 27% of wagons are manuals that 27% of the other cars are manuals. I'm fairly certain overall the take rate on manuals is closer to 15%. I will work on getting to looking those up as I get a chance as well. I'm not yet prepared to delve into break down further than the transmission. I can do it, but I have to know RPOs, which beyond my raven black that I can look up I do not know. If a combination is rare enough the system I'm using wouldn't give me data either.

Edit: Did a little more searching and it appears there is a very official looking 3035 for 2009 production. So clearly sales are not a perfect indicator of the number out there but at least it gets the number pretty close since the number that was provided in my data was 3008.

neuronbob
05-16-14, 06:41 PM
Numbers are here, minus 2014 which haven't been released yet:

http://www.c a d i l l a c v net.com/knowledgebase/c a d i l l a c - v - series-production-numbers.php

(remove all the spaces to make the link work. This forum does not allow links to competitor forums, unfortunately, so have to space it out to show you the link.)

09SRT8
05-17-14, 12:37 AM
I have a 2011 Evolution Green Metallic V Wagon. Does anyone else own a V wagon in that color? 11 is the only year it was available.
I think thats a cool color never seen it in a wagon though !

gaduser
06-19-14, 06:46 PM
See http://cadillacvnet.com/knowledgebase/cadillac-v-series-production-numbers.php#.Urjk-7TE9mN
for the available production numbers for each of the three models.

I have further determined that there were 298 2011 CTS-V Black Diamond Edition Coupes of the 3,224 V Coupes manufactured in 2011. The 298 include all three of the available interior trim options.

neuronbob
06-19-14, 11:58 PM
See http://cadillacvnet.com/knowledgebase/cadillac-v-series-production-numbers.php#.Urjk-7TE9mN
for the available production numbers for each of the three models.

I have further determined that there were 298 2011 CTS-V Black Diamond Edition Coupes of the 3,224 V Coupes manufactured in 2011. The 298 include all three of the available interior trim options.

See post #34 above. It explains why your link doesn't work.

Random84
06-23-14, 03:19 PM
I can't edit my original post anymore - but here's the #'s from the link above:



CTVS Coupe:
2010 -1 (one pre-production)
2011 - 3,224
2012 - 2,286
2013 - 1,519
TOTAL: 7,029 + 1

CTS Sedan:
2009 - 3,025
2010 - 1,745
2011 - 2,075
2012 - 2,012
2013 - 1,133
TOTAL: 9,990

CTSV - Wagon:
2011 - 395
2012 - 575
2013 - 416
TOTAL: 1,386 (sounds remarkably familiar to my OP last year, doesn't it?)


Obviously, this does not include the additional partial-2014 units.


Just for braggin' rights:

Random84 said on 05-20-13:

So I think my first guess of 1200-1500 Wagons is probably pretty close and well within my approximations above. Even if we say 30% of all CTSV wagons are manuals - which is an absurd number - there are going to be around 500 manual CTSV wagons (or less) of any option level ever built. I really think the total number of manual tranmission wagons will be less than 15% (under 250 vehicles)* , because at the end of the day very few people have the desire or the means to buy a slush-box wagon for daily-driver duty.

* Remember, this post is just me taking heavily extrapolated guesses based on approximations of the first post.

neuronbob
06-23-14, 03:39 PM
Yeah, your WAG was reasonably good. :thumbsup:

THMorrill
06-28-14, 12:32 AM
I have a 2011 Evolution Green Metallic V Wagon. Does anyone else own a V wagon in that color? 11 is the only year it was available.
PICTURES?? I've never seen this color either...

Trapspeed
06-28-14, 09:04 AM
PICTURES?? I've never seen this color either...

Yeah! No joke. Show it up!

Edit: just searched images of it. I like it! There is a manual wagon for sale in this color.

Gary Wells
06-28-14, 04:21 PM
Good info, many thanks.