: King of Ugly, GTO or Charger



RealmCenter
01-12-05, 08:02 PM
Okay everyone, which one reigns as supreme ugly? The Bastardized Australian built Holden Monaro with Cavalier sheet metal that couldn't look any further away from the original GTO mid or late '60s OR The disgraceful looking Dodge Charger which may as well be a lowered Ram truck with a car hindquarters.

illumina
01-12-05, 08:12 PM
i like them both. the charger is much better looking that the car it is replacing: the intrepid.

c5 rv
01-12-05, 08:41 PM
The GTO is fairly true to its origins. The first GTO was a Tempest with a big engine. This GTO poses like all the other ugly Pontiacs.

The Charger is just plain ugly. It looks like someone photoshopped a Dakota grille onto a car as a joke and they ended up building it. Oops! It reminds me of a funny story from my childhood. New roads were being built in our neighborhood and my friend and I were playing construction in his driveway. With yellow chaulk, he drew a big square in his driveway and wrote "Dig here" inside the square. My friend's dad wasn't very pleased when the construction crew dug up that square the next day.

illumina
01-12-05, 08:59 PM
The GTO is fairly true to its origins. The first GTO was a Tempest with a big engine. This GTO poses like all the other ugly Pontiacs.

The Charger is just plain ugly. It looks like someone photoshopped a Dakota grille onto a car as a joke and they ended up building it. Oops! It reminds me of a funny story from my childhood. New roads were being built in our neighborhood and my friend and I were playing construction in his driveway. With yellow chaulk, he drew a big square in his driveway and wrote "Dig here" inside the square. My friend's dad wasn't very pleased when the construction crew dug up that square the next day.


:histeric: :histeric: :crying2: :rofl: :rofl:

CoupeDevilleRob
01-12-05, 09:00 PM
The Charger is weird looking, the front end looks too small for the rest of the car.

The GTO isn't ugly, just plain, like something the guy who checks the water meter would ride around in.

Ralph
01-12-05, 09:06 PM
I've been reading High Performance Pontiac since 1988, and they have been promising this new GTO SINCE THEN! There was always talk of what it would be like. There was talk around 1990 that the turbo GP would wear the badge, Twin Dual Cam, or the Grand Am with the V6 or Quad 4, but car clubs and everyone got pissy back then because it was FWD. Now that it's come with what everyone wanted, namely V8 and RWD, EVERYBODY complains about it?? :hmm: We don't have them yet here, but from what I've seen in pics, I'd take one over the Charger anyday, or at least until I can see a Charger in person.

I wouldn't know how to vote here, but I'll look at some pics and get back to you.

I'd take "plain" over "ugly" ANYDAY! And that would include women! Damn it's going to be a long winter. :helpless:

Vesicant
01-12-05, 09:14 PM
Oh is the Charger ever so ugly! :hitstick: :vomit:

Why not the Charger R/T Concept ?? Why couldnt they still make that? Why did they have to make it be reminiscent of the 300c and Magnum?

Id certainly rather have a GTO.. atleast it looks pleasing to the eye.

http://www.pontiac.com/gto/images/bg_image3.jpg

HotRodSaint
01-12-05, 10:14 PM
The GTO is inoffensive, if not boring.

The Charger is offensive, if not ugly.

But I have issues with the Mustang too. Too much retro, and not enough modern. The rear is great, the front is a compromise to 'hold' true to the old. I await it's update in 5 years.

Dadillac
01-12-05, 10:24 PM
I also think the GTO is too plain. Nothing pops. The Charger, I like it. I have grown to like the 300, and was working on the wife, when her Infiniti goes, to get a 300. But, after seeing the Charger, I have changed my mind. The wife wants a BMW :nono: , but I think they are just overpriced. I will try to talk her into the Charger, but I will have to actually see one first. The rear section of that car just makes the car. The semi-fin look, with the sloping rear glass. I like it, I like it alot.

Don

Stoneage_Caddy
01-12-05, 10:30 PM
I love the goat and everything about it ....If i had the cash it would be mine ...in fact i dont like this years as much due to the fact it has "hood scoops"

the charger however has one endaering quality , its powertrain

You didnt give an option in the poll of "the GTO is perfect for me , the charger needs jumped off a cliff dukes of hazzard style"

ben72227
01-12-05, 11:19 PM
Well, at least the GTO is still a coupe. How could they make the Charger into a family sedan:mad:??? That was Dodge's muscle car:nono:. Oh well, I think that both of them suck compared to the originals, but at least the GTO is a coupe; unfortunately it looks like Pontiac's version of the Chevy Cavalier, and I'm not going to pay $30,000 for a Cavalier with a V8 in it, even if it is a "GTO."

Even though I don't really like Ford at all, I do have to give them credit for AT LEAST making the new Mustang look like a car I could own. And it makes you wonder too, if GM can make stuff like the Saturn Sky, why can't they get Vauxhall or someone good at making great looking cars (TVR maybe?) to design the GTO too?

:banghead:It makes me so upset when GM improves one brand (Saturn) and leaves Pontiac with some of the worst vehicles (Aztec anyone?) on the planet!

davesdeville
01-12-05, 11:52 PM
I like the GTO. Not great, could use a bit of work in the grille and air dam and it's a bit too egg shaped.

I don't like the charger, the fact that it's a sedan and the other points made in the charger thread.. I'd take a GTO over an 05 GT any day.

RealmCenter
01-13-05, 12:26 AM
I concede that even such a subtle change as adding the ducts to the hood of the GTO help it considerably, I still think the Mustang is more worthy of being called a Mustang than the GTO is being called a GTO. I have never been a Mustang fan and probably never will be, it pains me to have to admit that my all time favorite car (Charger) has been outdone by my least favorite muscle car (Mustang). The only hope for the Charger is a complete re-style from the rocker panels up. I still can't understand why if Dodge insits on it being a 4 door that they couldn't have done it like the saturn with the smaller suicide doors behind the front doors to give it a couple like apperance, but that wouldn't change the fact that the front end has been transplanted over from a pickup truck. Does anyone know if a manual trans is even available for it? I hope out of my disgust for the Charger that it is even more unsuccesful than the Lincoln Blackwood. :annoyed:

Ralph
01-13-05, 12:32 AM
They will be making a 2 door version of the Charger, supposedly. I wonder if the interior is just like a Magnums? Even if Dodge made it into a fastback like the 1966/7, it would be more appealing, but then I don't care for hatchbacks because they all tend to rattle after 2 years.

I would take a new Mustang over either of these because it looks like one of my dream cars, a 1967 Shelby GT 350!

p.s. I'm the one who voted GTO. :D

illumina
01-13-05, 12:38 AM
the charger will be a popular car because of the "bang for the buck" deal. it will have the same slap-shift or whatever you call it with the hemi. i don't know if it will be available with the 3.5 liter V6.

also, the 3.2 liter V6 will not be an option for this car: that is for the magnum and the 300C only.

that siad, they're not that ugly are they?

ralph, you voted for the GTO? common' dude, she is a sweet package!

Sandy
01-13-05, 12:48 AM
# 1. Mustang GT
# 2. Pontiac GTO
#37. Dodge Charger

Ralph
01-13-05, 12:54 AM
that siad, they're not that ugly are they?



That and MORE! :p (I still should see it in person)

It's like they never put any thought into the design! The new Mustang is actually a very retro-looking version of the classic! That's cool! I think people LOVE retro designed Muscle Cars. It WILL sell. Even the PT Crapper, er, I mean Cruiser, was very retro, and it sold well! Same for T-Bird! I can't see this car making as big a splash as the Mustang, nor the GTO.

When I go to the driveway in the morning, I have to be able to look at my car and not cringe at the fact it's as ugly as my first girlfriend! (Charger)

IMO, Dodge better offer a fastback-look like the Mustang, or make the styling more retro for the Charger because they cannot base everyone of their newer cars on the same basic blocky design as the Magnum/300.

If anyone buys the Charger, it will be because of the Hemi and the name, or they have a family and want 4 doors imo.

majax
01-13-05, 01:22 AM
I don't really believe in the whole retro thing. I think that car companies should come up with designs that people will want to use 40 years from now, Just like we want to use old designs today.

Ralph
01-13-05, 01:25 AM
I don't really believe in the whole retro thing. I think that car companies should come up with designs that people will want to use 40 years from now, Just like we want to use old designs today.

Perhaps, but I think the car companies (smart ones) are trying to capitalize of the fact that Baby Boomers seem to want to relive their youth, so they offer these retro versions of the cars they had 35 years ago.

Here is an article on the Charger:



http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7949&sid=180&n=157

HotRodSaint
01-13-05, 01:58 AM
Same for T-Bird!

They can't give T-birds away, and it will end production this year I think.

I hardly ever see them.

But that means you should buy one and stash it away! :thumbsup:

Ralph
01-13-05, 02:10 AM
They can't give T-birds away, and it will end production this year I think.

I hardly ever see them.

But that means you should buy one and stash it away! :thumbsup:

There are a lot of people driving those T-Birds here! Are they killing it off entirely??

It would be a nice second car for playing with if one has the means, but I think before I get too old, I'd still like a Mustang!!! I waited to darn long for a GTO re-birth all those years and I gave up on it years ago. (even though they have one now :yawn: )

Did you make it to the LA Auto Show Jeff??

HotRodSaint
01-13-05, 11:33 AM
Did you make it to the LA Auto Show Jeff??

Yesterday was our first sunny day, so I figured I wouldn't be alone in going on Wednesday. I'm going today and hoping for less people. :coolgleam

Then I'm going to Little Tokyo for lunch and some car magazines, and yes both will contain rice! :p

Stoneage_Caddy
01-13-05, 01:11 PM
get us more info on the 5300 powered monte and impala

Katshot
01-13-05, 01:32 PM
The GTO is actually a pretty nice car, and the '05 more than makes up for the '04 with the addition of the LS2 engine. If you don't like the hood scoops, there's a "delete" option for you.
The Charger is FRIGGIN' UGLY as far as I'm concerned, BUTT-UGLY as a matter of fact. Even in real life it's ugly. Now the 300.....THAT's a different story. Nice car in need of a better interior IMO.
As for the Mustang, I'm still a little less than excited about it. After seeing the concept car, I was drooling like mad but the production model leaves me a little cold.
One thing I REALLY hate about both the 300 and the new Mustang is the high door sills. Is this supposed to be a new trend? God I hope not. I really don't like sitting in the car and having the door sills so high. Makes you feel like you're sitting on the floor and you can't comfortably rest your arm out the window on a nice day. That and the dash pad sits so high too. Both cars just give me the feeling like I'm sitting in a bucket.

Stoneage_Caddy
01-13-05, 02:05 PM
The GTO is actually a pretty nice car, and the '05 more than makes up for the '04 with the addition of the LS2 engine. If you don't like the hood scoops, there's a "delete" option for you.
The Charger is FRIGGIN' UGLY as far as I'm concerned, BUTT-UGLY as a matter of fact. Even in real life it's ugly. Now the 300.....THAT's a different story. Nice car in need of a better interior IMO.
As for the Mustang, I'm still a little less than excited about it. After seeing the concept car, I was drooling like mad but the production model leaves me a little cold.
One thing I REALLY hate about both the 300 and the new Mustang is the high door sills. Is this supposed to be a new trend? God I hope not. I really don't like sitting in the car and having the door sills so high. Makes you feel like you're sitting on the floor and you can't comfortably rest your arm out the window on a nice day. That and the dash pad sits so high too. Both cars just give me the feeling like I'm sitting in a bucket.

delte option ??? WOO HOO !!!! NOW WERE TALKIN ! so it will look like the 04 from the front , 05 out back , and get the power upgrade....damn now i just need the cash for it ....

Next youll tell me i can delete to rear spoiler too ......itd be perfection then ...

illumina
01-13-05, 02:26 PM
the mustang GT that i scoped out was prety nice. she has black-on-red interior with a black exterior. the windows were neat too, as they would not roll up all of the way (a mere 1/4 inch or so from being completely rolled up) because there was no door frame around them. what the windows did was adjust after the door closed and then they were water-tight. this for when you roll the window up on a hot day and you get out of the car to do it.

oh, and they're damned fast too.

pimpin88
01-13-05, 02:58 PM
2005 gto = 400 HORSEPOWER!!!

i would definitely take the gto even if it is "plain". the hood scoops and the new dual exhaust, with pipes that come out with one on both sides instead of both on the same side, help it a lot. if people don't like the looks, i'm sure there will be plenty of aftermarket stuff for them.

my vote goes to the gto.

Ralph
01-13-05, 03:00 PM
The GTO is actually a pretty nice car

I thought for sure YOU would have voted GTO! ;)

Katshot
01-13-05, 04:53 PM
Ralph,
Why? I like the GTO. The vote was for the ugliest.

Stoneage_Caddy,
There ARE two different rear deck spoilers available for the car. Maybe one is to your liking. I'm not aware of a delete otion for it though.
The BIG question is, what's with the hood scoops? I "thought" they were "non-functional" but a recent article specifically labels them as "functional". The picture I saw of the engine compartment definately shows a standard induction tract that runs from an airbox on the L/F corner of the engine compartment, and I would have a hard time believing that they'd offer a "delete" option if they were functional. It would necessitate a change of the whole intake system and PCM calibration.

Ralph
01-13-05, 05:00 PM
Ralph,
Why? I like the GTO. The vote was for the ugliest.



Oops! I goofed. :shhh:

brougham
01-13-05, 06:43 PM
I don't like the way the GTO looks. I like the Charger a lot better.

pimpin88
01-14-05, 09:12 AM
Oops! I goofed. :shhh:

ahhh, same here. i meant to vote for the dodge charger being the ugliest. somehow i ended up voting for the one i liked the most.:annoyed:

turbojimmy
01-14-05, 09:29 AM
The GTO is true to its roots, but only to an extent. I had a '67 Tempest, '67 LeMans, and a '67 GTO. The GTO was simply a Tempest/LeMans with a big engine and some other styling cues. Things that GTOs ALWAYS, ALWAYS had were dual exhaust and hood scoops. The '04 GTO had neither. They're trying to fix it for '05, but my gut tells me that even with 400 HP they're going to miss the mark. While the scoops on the "real" GTOs were simply grafted onto Tempest/LeMans hoods, they really set them apart. These new GTO scoops just don't cut it, to quote Car & Driver "Imagine your Aunt Clara penciling in some more angry eyebrows, and you get the idea. She might look a bit more volatile, but she's still your aunt". A ram-air option would be a nice throwback to the hey day as well.

I think they'd have been better off making a Grand-Prix-based GTO. The RWD would've been tough, but it would have been more true to the original. A lot of people can't relate to the GTO because it's just an import with GTO badges slapped on it. A very plain looking import at that.

Jim

Stoneage_Caddy
01-14-05, 01:43 PM
no offense but so was the grand national and GNX , at first people thought it was grandpas regal with no chrome ..... wasnt untill a few mustangs and f bodys started picking on them that people realized that thing had unbeliveable performace ....regardsless if memory serves they sold like hotcakes ....

thats why i dont understand the hate of the GTO ....maybe they would sell every ones of them if it had a diffrent name ....Phoenix would have sounded good but everyone would have thought "lame front driver" ....hmm how bout WISC ...for wolf in sheeps clothing

turbojimmy
01-14-05, 02:00 PM
no offense but so was the grand national and GNX , at first people thought it was grandpas regal with no chrome ..... wasnt untill a few mustangs and f bodys started picking on them that people realized that thing had unbeliveable performace ....regardsless if memory serves they sold like hotcakes ....

None taken - that's why I bought the GN. I missed my GTO. The GN IS a Regal. Like the GTO IS a Tempest. It's the same exact premise (except most muscle car fans don't consider the GN a muscle car because it has a V6). This Holden thing is something that few people can relate to. If they had taken a GP and made it a GTO I think a lot more people could've related to it. They could see the differences between the GP and the GTO. But they see this Holden thing and don't know what to think of it.

I dunno. I just don't like the GTO. Can't put my finger on it.

Jim

Stoneage_Caddy
01-14-05, 02:18 PM
None taken - that's why I bought the GN. I missed my GTO. The GN IS a Regal. Like the GTO IS a Tempest. It's the same exact premise (except most muscle car fans don't consider the GN a muscle car because it has a V6). This Holden thing is something that few people can relate to. If they had taken a GP and made it a GTO I think a lot more people could've related to it. They could see the differences between the GP and the GTO. But they see this Holden thing and don't know what to think of it.

I dunno. I just don't like the GTO. Can't put my finger on it.

Jim
yah i hear the muscle cars guys dont give the GN any respect due to the engine size ....even tho it was the last of the great muscle cars , it lived up to every bit of the GNX name as far as performance....

Even on paper it was very close to the 60s and 70s GN's ....you could get bench seat ,collum shift, grama speedometer, and still go like stink

turbojimmy
01-14-05, 04:10 PM
yah i hear the muscle cars guys dont give the GN any respect due to the engine size ....even tho it was the last of the great muscle cars , it lived up to every bit of the GNX name as far as performance....

Even on paper it was very close to the 60s and 70s GN's ....you could get bench seat ,collum shift, grama speedometer, and still go like stink

Yes, the GNs were close to the GS and GSXs of the late 60s/early 70s - a couple of ticks off the MPH in the 1/4, but the ET was nearly the same and they were quicker to 60. Both due to the better rubber in the late 80s (despite being straddled with 215mm wide tires). My brother has an '87 Regal "T" turbo - one of the gramma cars. I'm driving it while I'm working on my Caddy (the GN is hibernating). It's very unassuming with it's patchy paint, dents, dings, rust holes, faded trim and freshly rebuilt motor with a new "GT" series turbo. It's lots of fun to drive (on dry pavement). Surprises the hell out of the rice - they figure I'm easy prey. They get to hear the turbo spool for a second or two before I'm gone.

I voted that the Charger was uglier, BTW. The GTO isn't THAT bad.

Jim

Stoneage_Caddy
01-14-05, 04:23 PM
come to think of it we havent had an update out of that DTS lately .....

Elvis
01-14-05, 04:33 PM
I voted for the Charger because of the pick-up truck grille and the stupid back seat windows that they tried to model off of the old Charger. That's just a pathetic rip-off of what was an ugly design to begin with.

At least the GTO is trying to look modern. And it's really not that bad, except that in a few years it will look just as cheap and "plasticky" as every other 5-year-old Pontiac does today. (but I've heard one, and they DO sound good!)

turbojimmy
01-14-05, 04:33 PM
come to think of it we havent had an update out of that DTS lately .....

I've been doing them weekly on Sunday. I've basically done all I can do with it. Inside is done, got it running decently. Cleaned up wherever I could squeeze my hands or a detailing brush. Everything works except it won't start - theft deterrent has me shut down. I need to have the various modules re-flashed to get the theft deterrent system working. All I can do is sit and wait for the title so I can get it registered. Then I'll have it towed to the dealer for reprogramming.

I'm doing little things here and there like the 6-disc changer, wiper motor, etc. but nothing noteworthy. Should be on the road in February. I'll throw up some new pics on Sunday.

I just go out and sit in it once in a while and listen to a CD. It's very comfortable.

Jim