: Vibration around 60 ive tried all the usual stuff



xbladr
05-15-13, 09:34 PM
I am having issues with a slight vibration when over about 60mph on my 04? I thought it was my wheels but i had them all straightened and road force balanced both my stockers and aftermarket wheels are doing this. You can see the steering wheel vibrate a little bit but, it gets significantly worse the more passengers and weight I have in the car. With a full load it feels like it is borderline hopping. I usually just drive by myself so its not bad just a little noticable. Does anyone have an ideas? I am not sure what could cause this or what to check. tire pressure is at 35 all around.

Thanks in advance guys

darkman
05-15-13, 10:05 PM
The service manual contains no less than 50 pages dedicated to vibration analysis. Dealerships typically have some special equipment to trace the sources of vibration. Based on what you have checked I would be looking at wheel bearings and the driveshaft unless some additional info eliminated those as sources. See attached.

xbladr
05-15-13, 10:20 PM
Thanks darkman I will look into those. Some of them refer to tools via numbers I will have to also research what those are. Is there an easy way to check wheel bearings? The way listed there says to use a chassis ear and a dial indicator which I do not have.

darkman
05-15-13, 10:29 PM
Failing wheel bearings typically make enough noise that you can identify the problem, but with sealed bearings the only way to check a bearing that is quiet is with a dial indicator - assuming, of course, that the degree of movement is not so bad that you detect it just by feel.

xbladr
05-15-13, 10:41 PM
ok I will check them when I swap wheels again next week. I dont feel a clicking when turning or even a noise coming from them. Not sure that is the answer but maybe carrier bearing on the DS or possibly the DS is out of balance. I will look into this as well. Thanks Darkman

trhs75
05-15-13, 10:57 PM
Hi Xbladr,

I'm certainly no pro, but have you tried switching the front wheels to the back temporarily? If the vibration origin changes or it disappears, you will have found your culprit, assuming it's not in all four wheels. Just a thought, but an inexpensive diagnostic test!

xbladr
05-15-13, 11:01 PM
TRHS75 I have changed to a completely different set of wheels and different set of tires. Had both sets balanced multiple times. One set is staggered so I couldn't change those around however the other set is the OEM 245 45 18's and i have swapped those around multiple times without any change. That is a great and easy test though.

carlson_mn
05-16-13, 12:54 AM
No expert here but def get the driveshaft checked, the fact it gets worse with added weight in the vehicle makes me think that will effect the driveshaft as the chassis of the vehicle changes with weight. Good luck.

xbladr
05-16-13, 03:24 AM
Carlson awesome response I am going to drop it off at my local performance guy see if they can take a peak at the DS for me. Thanks

Carnut_s
05-20-13, 07:45 PM
I'm having the same issue in my 07 at 63MPH. I did everything you did except the drive shaft. Let us know if the drive shaft was the problem. Thanks

nvthev
05-20-13, 08:33 PM
Is there any advantage to spending the $1000 and buying the 1 piece shaft and saying goodbye to those discs?

xbladr
05-22-13, 10:04 PM
I think the general consensus is still the 2 piece gforce shaft. I have yet to look at the DS carnut but when I do I will let you know.

seeyouinajif
06-08-13, 02:18 PM
I'm having the same issue in my 07 at 63MPH. I did everything you did except the drive shaft. Let us know if the drive shaft was the problem. Thanks

Same issue in my 05 at 63 MPH, also seems to be a tad worse before the car warms up. Interested to know if the drive shaft fixed the OP's issue.

xbladr
06-08-13, 09:44 PM
From what I saw the DS seemed fine. It is not RPM rated and it isnt all the time. Some days it drives smooth as silk and other days its horrendous. I am still trying to figure out the issue. Nobody can seem to pinpoint it. With it being perfectly fine some days and terrible others its so hard to pinpoint. I have run this by a bunch of people and nobody has had anything thats really worked. It is frustrating to say the least.

darkman
06-08-13, 09:55 PM
From what I saw the DS seemed fine. It is not RPM rated and it isnt all the time. Some days it drives smooth as silk and other days its horrendous. I am still trying to figure out the issue. Nobody can seem to pinpoint it. With it being perfectly fine some days and terrible others its so hard to pinpoint. I have run this by a bunch of people and nobody has had anything thats really worked. It is frustrating to say the least.

Does this vibration occur at 60 mph regardless of gear selection? If you are normally in 6th gear when it occurs, have you tried it in 5th or 4th at the same speed? (There is a known issue involving 6th gear vibration.)

xbladr
06-08-13, 10:09 PM
Na Darkman it involves any gear and it doesnt matter throttle position either. That is why the longest time I thought wheels. So i had them straightened the back of the hub machined new tires and multiple balancing attempts including road force balancing. With the stock wheels its less noticeable than with the 20's but again the 20's can be smooth as silk or rough as hell just like the 18's. This is on the same highways same roads same temperature outside within 5 degrees. I am trying to narrow it down and am struggling completely. I have had a clunk in the rear sounds like endlinks or maybe shock nuts arent tight enough. I am going to look into that Wednesday on my first day off from work.

barrok69
06-10-13, 04:06 PM
Before you read the next bit...How old are your tires? and how worn are they?

I've seen this happen before with different types of new tires (even big name brand tires). After the vehicle sits for some time even as low as a couple hours the tires deform and can develop flat spots. Some manufacturers are better than others with the type of overlays they use to produce their specific tires. There is no cure for it other than to get a different type of tire. (not sure what tires you have on your two sets of wheels). The 20's will be the worst case though. Eventually you will drive and park the car enough for the tire to flat spot itself back into round, but the cycle never ends.

With most good tire brands the flat spotting is not permanent and after driving a few miles down the road the tire goes back to it's original post mold shape. Other tire brands actually develop permanent tire deformation and will never go back to their original state and will feel like you have a wheel/tire balance issue. But not matter how often you balance them, you'll still get the shake.

What brand tires do you have on the 18's and the 20's?

xbladr
06-10-13, 04:41 PM
Barrok: so the ties on the 20s are hankook evo v12s and now are about 1 year old. Mileage under 1500 however this started immediately when I purchased my tires it wasn't like the were good then all of a sudden started having problems. The 18s have continental winters on them and are about the same age. I have seen a flat spot in a tire before and there doesn't appear to be any. Is there any sure fire way to go about checking for them? Im willing to try just about anything at this point. I did have 3 of them straightened as well as I just recently brought them in and had them completely inspected and the guys could not find a single issue I'm definitely stumped

barrok69
06-10-13, 06:42 PM
Barrok: so the ties on the 20s are hankook evo v12s and now are about 1 year old. Mileage under 1500 however this started immediately when I purchased my tires it wasn't like the were good then all of a sudden started having problems. The 18s have continental winters on them and are about the same age. I have seen a flat spot in a tire before and there doesn't appear to be any. Is there any sure fire way to go about checking for them? Im willing to try just about anything at this point. I did have 3 of them straightened as well as I just recently brought them in and had them completely inspected and the guys could not find a single issue I'm definitely stumped

You won't be able to visually see the flat spot. It lies within the actual construction of the tire. It's not like a slam on the brakes flat spot (pre-ABS) where there is a visual shaved piece of rubber off of the tire.

BUT.... If it is happening from day one I would say that you got a shitty built set of tires that is more square then it is round. Which isn't unusual when you buy aftermarket tires. The aftermarket gets all the scraps that doesn't meet the big OEM car manufacturers requirements. It's pretty much a crap shoot depending on what brands you buy and what batch they came from. You could possibly match mount the tires to the wheels, which will help if you can find a shop that can actually do those measurements, where they will measure the roundness of the wheel and tire and match the highest part of the wheel to the lowest part of tire to get the best "round" assembly.

If I were you I would return the tires and ask for a refund or a new set. Of if they don't want to do that (which they won't) Bring your tires to a reputable balance shop and get each one measured for R1H. Mark which ones have the highest to lowest and then place them in a "Z" pattern on the car. ie... if Tires come in at Tire1 15lbs, Tire2 43lbs, Tire3 12lbs, Tire4 34lbs R1H you would place them on the car like this:

Tire3 12lbs (LF) Tire1 15lbs (RF)
Tire4 34lbs (LR) Tire2 43lbs (RR)

The idea is to put the worst tires the furthest away from the steering wheel/driver seat. Anything under 25lbs R1H would be considered "ok". If you have tires above that you basically have a piece of crap square tire that will never really balance.

Just as a side note...when was the last time you had a 4 wheel suspension alignment?

xbladr
06-10-13, 07:02 PM
4 wheel suspension alignment last summer thinking it may help but it didn't. Yes they won't take the tours back but I can see if I can find a place locally that will check all the tires for roundness. I have no idea who will do it but I'll look around. Barrok this info had been excellent thank you so much for taking the time to break it down for me.

NCOGNITO
06-10-13, 08:34 PM
I was never a believer in flat spots until the V - both the Toyos and Bridgestone RE070's that have been on mine feel like they have flat spots when I first get it out of the garage. After driving a few miles they warm up and the vibration goes away ... Go figure.

Good luck chasing this down, mine had a significant vibration above 60 when I bought it and it was the tires. Putting new ones on resolved the higher speed vibrations.

MacMuse
06-10-13, 08:53 PM
Tried a 4-wheel alignment?

Fixed a similar issue on my STS a couple years ago.

xbladr
06-10-13, 09:44 PM
NCOGNITO: I have seen chopped tires and flat spot tires personally on my buddies VW passat. Again I had not believed it till I saw it personally. The rear tires are 275/35 and fronts 245/35 I am going to put the 18's on the front and leave the 20's on tjhe rear. See if maybe its just the front or the rear tires on the 20's that may have flat spots. If that seems to resolve it then I will know for sure its the front tires.

MacMUSE: tried that already

jtcu
06-12-13, 07:24 PM
Definitely sounds like a driveshaft issue, could be out of balance. If it is only during acceleration it might be the diff but you still have to replace the whole driveshaft if it is.

xbladr
06-15-13, 09:04 PM
After putting the stock tires/wheels on the front 75% of the vibration is gone. I still get some above 85ish but its much better. I get next to nothing from 60-80. I am going to bring the front two wheels and tires to the local place and see if they can run a test on them for r1h and see if maybe there are flat spots or issues with those tires. The driveshaft being an issue seems weird to me as its any gear accel or decel doesnt matter.

PJGross
06-17-13, 02:20 PM
Going back to your first post, tire defects can't hide from a Hunter GSP 9700. I've had great success finding tire issues for years with that bad boy. Helped me ID broken belts in my Goodyear F1 steels on the Impala SS on a few occasions where to the naked eye they were perfectly fine tires. That machine can even give you a good idea of how well a new tire is balanced from the factory. A well trained technician can match up the rim and tire for the best compromised fitment if they take the time to do things right. (you can always ask for a printout of the +/- lb force readings for each wheel/tire combo compared to suggested tolerances and before and after tire to wheel matching is performed)

If you had a good tech using the GSP 9700 I'd say it isn't your wheels/tires, more that different sized and compounded tire/rim combos are causing different harmonics to be amplified/dampened.....
....unfortunately I have no clue where else to look though.

Good luck!

xbladr
06-17-13, 10:08 PM
Thanks PJgross. I am not sure either I just know that once i took the 20's off the front and put the stock 18's on there the vibration is pretty much completely gone. The 18's are 245 continental winters and the 20's are 245 evo v12's. I am still thinking about taking them to a different shop that has the GSP 9700 and having them go through the two front wheels and see if they can find anything

odla
06-17-13, 10:33 PM
This may help some of us. Gives locations of this type of help.

http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm