: Getting an 04 v with a bad motor. Going with a 6.2 stroked!!!!!!!



av8erdunn
05-14-13, 09:06 PM
I am getting a 2004 ctsv that has a bad motor in it next week. The car comes with a 6.2 out of a denali that had about 15k miles and I am also getting this scat rotating assay with it.

http://www.race-mart.com/Scat_Manufacturing-SCT-1-41921BI.html

Needless to say I will not be using the pistons from the kit due to the fact they are 4.125 dia. That being said should I go with stock pistons 4.065 Dia or aftermarket? I will also be picking up a cam for it; L92? The car has 1 7/8 kooks headers cats and corsa exhaust so I am set from that aspect. How many rwhp can I expect to get out of a stroked 427? I want to break 500hp is that doable with the stock heads and the mentioned parts? Oh and did I mention i have a 100 shot on the car also?:D This is gonna be fun.

thebigjimsho
05-14-13, 11:55 PM
hmm...

av8erdunn
05-15-13, 07:39 AM
Is that hmmm a good hmmm or a bad hmmm?

TheLostDriver
05-15-13, 09:27 AM
Not trying to offend you but might want to do A LOT more research than I feel you have invested in this.

av8erdunn
05-15-13, 11:57 AM
Not trying to offend you but might want to do A LOT more research than I feel you have invested in this.

What do you mean? This should be a fairly straight forward swap I would think. My new crank has the needed 24T reluctor, I need to move the knock sensors, different injector harness, MAP sensor, throttle body, clutch, 8.8 diff, etc……. Everything should bolt up; after installation a custom tune is in order and I should be good to go. I know it sounds easy and I know it won’t go as planned but I am not an idiot when it comes to turning a wrench. This will be the first car motor I have ever built but I have built hundreds of motorcycle, jetsk, boati and atv engines and probably 50 or more Continental piston aircraft engines starting from the crank. I understand where you are coming from but that’s why I am asking for recommendations on a cam and other parts. This is not my first CTS-V as I had an 05 with 25k miles ont last year and loved it. She was a real peach; I installed kooks and corsa and had a mild tune only to sell it 5 months later to pay off my house.Now I am looking to have some fun.

PISNUOFF
05-15-13, 01:33 PM
Not trying to offend you but might want to do A LOT more research than I feel you have invested in this.

I think this was said because your first post seems to be scattered all over the place. You say it has a 6.2 (4.065" bore) from a Denali and the scat kit comes with 4.125" pistons, then you ask if you should go with stock pistons or aftermarket (why would you ever want to stick with stock hypereutectic pistons instead of aftermarket forged ones? Especially if you're throwing nitrous at it) then you ask how much power should you expect from a 427 (4.065" bore with 4.125" stroke is not a 427). Asking if the stock clutch will hold up is another selling point of the above statement (short answer is no). All of this not to mention that 4.125" stroke brings a whole other set of issues. I'd get a 4" stroke kit with the proper stroker pistons and be happy with a 416.

Cam selection will be dependent upon what heads you decide to go with. There are a couple other things that are different between gen4 and gen3 motors. I would suggest buying only the gen 3 parts necessary to run your current stuff. For example, buy an ls6 valley cover and knock sensors and cam position sensor or take them from the blown motor in the car, use the ls6 map sensor and make a grommet to seal it to the larger hole in the L92 intake manifold, buy a cam that can be used with the ls6 style position sensor, etc etc. I went from a gen4 LS2 to a stroked LS3 and some modifications like those still had to be done. Yours will be a little more extensive but still easily doable.

------------

Ricky: I said it with all due respect!
Mr. Dennit: Just because you say that doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want to say to me!
Ricky: It sure as hell does!
Mr. Dennit: No, it doesn't--
Ricky: It's in the Geneva Conventions, look it up!

Bacon V
05-15-13, 01:37 PM
Misread your post, ignore my last post

av8erdunn
05-15-13, 06:32 PM
I think this was said because your first post seems to be scattered all over the place. You say it has a 6.2 (4.065" bore) from a Denali and the scat kit comes with 4.125" pistons, then you ask if you should go with stock pistons or aftermarket (why would you ever want to stick with stock hypereutectic pistons instead of aftermarket forged ones? Especially if you're throwing nitrous at it) then you ask how much power should you expect from a 427 (4.065" bore with 4.125" stroke is not a 427). Asking if the stock clutch will hold up is another selling point of the above statement (short answer is no). All of this not to mention that 4.125" stroke brings a whole other set of issues. I'd get a 4" stroke kit with the proper stroker pistons and be happy with a 416.

Cam selection will be dependent upon what heads you decide to go with. There are a couple other things that are different between gen4 and gen3 motors. I would suggest buying only the gen 3 parts necessary to run your current stuff. For example, buy an ls6 valley cover and knock sensors and cam position sensor or take them from the blown motor in the car, use the ls6 map sensor and make a grommet to seal it to the larger hole in the L92 intake manifold, buy a cam that can be used with the ls6 style position sensor, etc etc. I went from a gen4 LS2 to a stroked LS3 and some modifications like those still had to be done. Yours will be a little more extensive but still easily doable.

------------

Ricky: I said it with all due respect!
Mr. Dennit: Just because you say that doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want to say to me!
Ricky: It sure as hell does!
Mr. Dennit: No, it doesn't--
Ricky: It's in the Geneva Conventions, look it up!

Thanks for the reply!!!!!

I can completely understand, it was long winded and busy. I was in a hurry to get to a meeting and had alot on my mind and wanted to get it on paper before my mind is cluttered with all kinds of useless work related crap. LOL

Maybe I am mistaken but when I calculate the displacement using pi 4 (b2) (stroke) (number of cylinders)
I get 428.06. How is that not a 427? Not trying to question you but just curious. As far as the pistons go, i cant use the 4.125 pistons that comes with the rotating assy due to the fact the bore of the 6.2 LS3 block is only 4.065. I am not going to be able to bore it to a 4.125 so I was going to stay with the stock bore size.

What kind of issues will the 4.125 stroke cause?

I will be building the LS6 for a pickup so I will be leaving all sensors / parts and buying all new Gen 3 parts per your recommendation.

As for a cam, I will be leaving the stock ls3 heads on and I was reading good things about the L92. Would that be a good choice or is there a better couple out there? I want the car to still be easy to drive on the street as my wife will be driving it now and then.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

PISNUOFF
05-15-13, 07:25 PM
......

Maybe I am mistaken but when I calculate the displacement using pi 4 (b2) (stroke) (number of cylinders)
I get 428.06. How is that not a 427? Not trying to question you but just curious. As far as the pistons go, i cant use the 4.125 pistons that comes with the rotating assy due to the fact the bore of the 6.2 LS3 block is only 4.065. I am not going to be able to bore it to a 4.125 so I was going to stay with the stock bore size.

My bad, I hit a wrong number. Small buttons on this iPhone.


......

What kind of issues will the 4.125 stroke are you referring to?

......

Longer stroke generally brings more wear and tear on cylinder walls, rocking of the pistons. The block needs more clearancing and there may be issues with hitting the reluctor wheel. I've always believed that strokes longer than 4.00 should be left to dedicated race cars.

Are you married to that stroker kit? I mean is it coming with everything else you bought or have you yet to purchase it? If it comes with the car and motor I would seriously consider selling that kit and buying a 4" one with correct (slightly oversized because you'll want to at least hone the cylinder sleeves to properly seal the new rings). The longer stroke certainly won't help drivability for the lady.

thebigjimsho
05-15-13, 07:47 PM
That's why I said "hmm..."

I had no clue if you knew what you were talking about, or not...

av8erdunn
05-15-13, 07:48 PM
My bad, I hit a wrong number. Small buttons on this iPhone.



Longer stroke generally brings more wear and tear on cylinder walls, rocking of the pistons. The block needs more clearancing and there may be issues with hitting the reluctor wheel. I've always believed that strokes longer than 4.00 should be left to dedicated race cars.

Are you married to that stroker kit? I mean is it coming with everything else you bought or have you yet to purchase it? If it comes with the car and motor I would seriously consider selling that kit and buying a 4" one with correct (slightly oversized because you'll want to at least hone the cylinder sleeves to properly seal the new rings). The longer stroke certainly won't help drivability for the lady.

Well I am not married to it, its just coming as a package deal with the car. Is there a rotating assy that you would recommend for that setup with a 4.00 stroke? I was basically trying to use what he had bought to build it but I am open and accepting of suggestions. Thanks for the input.

PISNUOFF
05-15-13, 08:33 PM
There are all kinds out there. Some people prefer only American made from start to finish and some people don't care about that kind of stuff. My rotating assembly in my 418 consisted of a Compstar crank and rods and Wiseco pistons. It is still good after two years of my beatings, roughly 15-18,000 miles. K1 makes some decent and cheaper cranks and rods. There is also always Lunati and Eagle and diamond.

Search and read a lot of threads over on tech and elsewhere. Just keep in mind that there is an inflated amount of problems on the Internet.

RyRidesMotoX
05-16-13, 03:39 AM
Well I am not married to it, its just coming as a package deal with the car. Is there a rotating assy that you would recommend for that setup with a 4.00 stroke? I was basically trying to use what he had bought to build it but I am open and accepting of suggestions. Thanks for the input.

An LS7 uses a 4.0 stroke and a 4.125 bore I think... Its almost 1am and I'm on my phone so I don't want to look it up. The LS7 was designed to run up to like 7000 or 8000 rpm or some ridiculous amount like that. If you stroke a motor, not only will it require extra work like the other guys have said with clearance issues, but it will also limit your top end HP and rpm. Just copy a LS7 bore&stroke and call it a day. The resale value on the stroker kit (crank, rods, pistons which it sounds like you have already from the previous owner) would probably come close to covering a lunati rotating assembly. I like lunati, used it on some other cars and always had pretty rock solid results. It is pretty pricy though and in all honesty you're paying more for the name than extra performance in the case of the lower end. SCAT enterprises makes pretty decent stuff too so check them out as well.

av8erdunn
05-16-13, 08:37 AM
An LS7 uses a 4.0 stroke and a 4.125 bore I think... Its almost 1am and I'm on my phone so I don't want to look it up. The LS7 was designed to run up to like 7000 or 8000 rpm or some ridiculous amount like that. If you stroke a motor, not only will it require extra work like the other guys have said with clearance issues, but it will also limit your top end HP and rpm. Just copy a LS7 bore&stroke and call it a day. The resale value on the stroker kit (crank, rods, pistons which it sounds like you have already from the previous owner) would probably come close to covering a lunati rotating assembly. I like lunati, used it on some other cars and always had pretty rock solid results. It is pretty pricy though and in all honesty you're paying more for the name than extra performance in the case of the lower end. SCAT enterprises makes pretty decent stuff too so check them out as well.

I am really trying to stay with the LS3 block so I cant copy an LS7 bore and stroke. It looks like the best option is going to the 418.

RyRidesMotoX
05-16-13, 10:29 AM
I am really trying to stay with the LS3 block so I cant copy an LS7 bore and stroke. It looks like the best option is going to the 418.

Well Livernois Motlrsports can. They even sell a bored shortblock for that application. The whole point I was trying to make is... There are better ways of yanking performance out of the motor, and that was the point the rest of the guys were going as well I think. Stroking a motor, in my opinion, is more problematic than boring it, sleeving it, and throwing a balanced rotating assembly to spin it fast. So yea, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything... Here is a link to Livernoi's website with the LS3 429... Its a little bigger than 427 Cruz the bore is 4.130 http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/products/LS2%7B47%7DLS3-429ci-Big-Bore-Aluminum-Pro-Series-Shortblock-%2811%3A1%2C-9.7%3A1%29.html

av8erdunn
05-16-13, 01:06 PM
Well Livernois Motlrsports can. They even sell a bored shortblock for that application. The whole point I was trying to make is... There are better ways of yanking performance out of the motor, and that was the point the rest of the guys were going as well I think. Stroking a motor, in my opinion, is more problematic than boring it, sleeving it, and throwing a balanced rotating assembly to spin it fast. So yea, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything... Here is a link to Livernoi's website with the LS3 429... Its a little bigger than 427 Cruz the bore is 4.130 http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/products/LS2%7B47%7DLS3-429ci-Big-Bore-Aluminum-Pro-Series-Shortblock-%2811%3A1%2C-9.7%3A1%29.html

I didnt take it as you being a dick. I am open to all suggestions.

RyRidesMotoX
05-16-13, 03:21 PM
I didnt take it as you being a dick. I am open to all suggestions.

Cool... Sometimes I don't even realize I'm being a dick to people. My girlfriend bitches at me all the time about it. You know there is no shame in doing a stock 6.2 displacement with a nice forged lower end and a big Eaton TVS on it.

av8erdunn
05-17-13, 07:36 AM
Cool... Sometimes I don't even realize I'm being a dick to people. My girlfriend bitches at me all the time about it. You know there is no shame in doing a stock 6.2 displacement with a nice forged lower end and a big Eaton TVS on it.

If I was going that route, wouldnt I be in it close to the same price as if I had went with the 418?

RyRidesMotoX
05-17-13, 01:13 PM
If I was going that route, wouldnt I be in it close to the same price as if I had went with the 418?

Yea but why go with a 418 instead of a tvs for similar price? Even a take off tvs from a ZL or ZR 1 is fairly reasonably priced. if it was between doing a stroker build and a supercharger, I would go forced induction every time, that's just my opinion tough... everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

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Ok lemme start from square one just to make sure I am properly following what you are saying so just to clarify...

You have a 6.2 out of a denali going in the V. Is the motor complete? If so, in your first post, you said you will be getting L92 heads. Now I am probably mistaken but doesn't the vortec 6200 already have L92 heads? Also if you are going to not use the pistons, you might as well sell the kit and get something you really want. If you buy new pistons and then sell the ones you aren't using, it isn't going to net you as much money as selling the whole kit as one set. And I'm not sure why you don't want to use a 4.125 inch bore, as far as I have seen and heard, it is safe to do. The issue most here are having, is the machining necessary on the bottom end of the block to properly clearance it for a significantly larger stroke. Also have you confirmed that the 6.2 is usable? What kind if damage has been done to it, if any? That makes a huge difference on whether to do a whole build on it or not. If it runs, sell the rotating assembly and then machine the heads and toss in a nice cam with the money and leave the bottom for now. That would be ideal. Heck you could come out with extra cash that way. If the 6.2 doesn't run, then that's a horse of a while different color.

carlson_mn
05-18-13, 09:21 PM
Did the 6.2 Denali also get an aluminum block or is this iron?

RyRidesMotoX
05-20-13, 05:29 PM
Did the 6.2 Denali also get an aluminum block or is this iron?

From what I understand any "Vortec" engine is iron block aluminum heads. So the denali motor is probably an iron block.

av8erdunn
05-29-13, 09:48 PM
Yea but why go with a 418 instead of a tvs for similar price? Even a take off tvs from a ZL or ZR 1 is fairly reasonably priced. if it was between doing a stroker build and a supercharger, I would go forced induction every time, that's just my opinion tough... everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

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Ok lemme start from square one just to make sure I am properly following what you are saying so just to clarify...

You have a 6.2 out of a denali going in the V. Is the motor complete? If so, in your first post, you said you will be getting L92 heads. Now I am probably mistaken but doesn't the vortec 6200 already have L92 heads? Also if you are going to not use the pistons, you might as well sell the kit and get something you really want. If you buy new pistons and then sell the ones you aren't using, it isn't going to net you as much money as selling the whole kit as one set. And I'm not sure why you don't want to use a 4.125 inch bore, as far as I have seen and heard, it is safe to do. The issue most here are having, is the machining necessary on the bottom end of the block to properly clearance it for a significantly larger stroke. Also have you confirmed that the 6.2 is usable? What kind if damage has been done to it, if any? That makes a huge difference on whether to do a whole build on it or not. If it runs, sell the rotating assembly and then machine the heads and toss in a nice cam with the money and leave the bottom for now. That would be ideal. Heck you could come out with extra cash that way. If the 6.2 doesn't run, then that's a horse of a while different color.

OK sorry for the delayed response as its been hectic around here lately. I actually got the car and found it to have a broken valve spring. It didn't do any damage, I bore scoped it and the piston is fine and parts will be here on Friday to fix it. As for the 6.2, its basicly a new motor; its got less than15k on the motor. I finally got the kit home and tore into it. The new crank is a 4.125 and the pistons are 4.065. Since the motor in the car is going to be OK I am going to take my time building this engine since there is no longer an urgency to get back on the road.