: 2005 LS6 Magnacharger Build Question



jmsweetv
05-12-13, 03:52 PM
Upon buying my first V two weeks ago, I already have that bug to start modding. My plan is this next winter put the V in the garage and start tearing down for upgrades to rear end working my way forward.

One of the biggest questions I have is what heads to use with a forged bottom end and a Brute Speed Cam the will compliment a Magnacharger the best? I have read so many post about the stock heads and Maggie being a ineffecient combo because of the higher CR. Most people I talk to say go with LQ9 heads as they flow the same but will lower CR.

Obviously I am a newbie here and don't know a whole lot. What heads? And what valve springs etc would be best with the Brute Speed blower cam? I don't mind paying a good amount amount on heads if there is something out there that may be what I need/want. Also, would like to have roller rockers.

My other option which I have been eyeing for some time is maybe a Texas Speed Iron 408 and stay N/A. Worried about the extra weight of the iron block and compatibility to swap into my V. This car will only be street driven and drivability is important. Not worried about mpg. I want torque and lots of it!

I always try and search first before posting something but I am stumped on this one. Any help would be much appreciated.

dedeaux89
05-12-13, 05:47 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ficiently.html
This will search better than the forum search tool, Has helped me alot since learning of it a few days ago,
Also many people here have maggies so when clicking on threads you might see their mods in their signature block, and dyno numbers most of the time so look at their setups to see what you would like for your car,
As winter gets here and you are starting to get ready to add parts to your car before spending the money, come on here and people might be able to steer you in which direction that might save you some money such as sponser specials, group buys, and holiday sales etc

You should also take in mind of what your budget is because realistically that is the deciding factor on which route and parts to buy, Many people can't see dumping more than bluebook on an 8 year old car that is now worth 20 grand or less but to each their own,
If your car is only used on the street, then you probably aren't going to use any of the mods or car to it's full potential anyways so as far as maintaining street manners, I would have to say if your pockets are deep enough then go maggie which will cost you 7 grand probably after a dyno tune etc, more if you don't do the labor. But it will maintain your cars street manners but give you a bunch of giddy up and pedal response.

All the questions that you have on this matter can be answered by clicking on the faq sticky at the top of the performance mods section, scroll down to forced induction and then you will find all the stuff you want to know which will save people time by not having to restate things that have already been discussed numurous times

darkman
05-12-13, 06:12 PM
I would get cam and head specs from a professional. I used PatrickG (Guerra Group) to spec my cam which came from Geoff Skinner at Engine Power Systems, but can also recommend talking to Mike Schmidt at Total Engine Air Flow (best by phone) or Advance Induction (they are more responsive to emails).

The key to using stock rockers, as opposed to expensive roller rockers (cheap ones are unreliable), is to stick to cam lifts at or below 0.600 inch (the stock rockers are designed for 0.550 inch) and cam lobes that require 410 pounds or less of open spring pressure. Since blower cams are usually milder than cams for naturally aspirated applications that should not be difficult.

rand49er
05-12-13, 06:21 PM
Lots of opinions here, and those opinions change as time goes by. Mine is that you don't have to forge the bottom of your LS6 with a maggie unless you do the overdrive crank pulley and the 2.6" jackshaft pulley all eight-rib where you're well above the 6 psi boost the standard setup gives you ... maybe as high as ~10 psi. At 5-6 psi, do you get torque? Heck yes! Great for street driving. I'm personally not sure what non-OEM heads would do for you with a maggie and whether they'd be worth the expense and effort. You need to drive a simple maggie and OEM head setup and decide if it's enough for you. Gotta be someone there in Hoosier Land who has one and let you experience it. Or, if you come up to Michigan for the Dream Cruise in August, there might be someone who can help you out here. I'll be there only Friday (not Saturday, the official Cruise day) and would be glad to let you try mine. And, as dedeaux89 said, you may want to think in terms of a budget otherwise you'll go poor, and we just love to spend other people's money. Whatever you do, do headers if you can, before or at the same time as a maggie.

DMM
05-12-13, 11:47 PM
The Maggie will be your limiting factor so I'd stop at the cam and overdriven crank pulley. 500 whp is the wall with the 112 so you will just be buying parts that will never reach their efficiency. That's why I go rid of my Maggie and got an E-Force.

Skidmarcx
05-13-13, 02:41 PM
The Maggie will be your limiting factor so I'd stop at the cam and overdriven crank pulley. 500 whp is the wall with the 112 so you will just be buying parts that will never reach their efficiency. That's why I go rid of my Maggie and got an E-Force.

Agreed no need to spend extra money when the gains won't be worth it

jmsweetv
05-13-13, 05:35 PM
Some really good advice and appreciate the feedback. I do like the logic to just run stock bottom and stock heads. I have somewhat deep pockets but my wife has a pretty tight leash...dosen't get the whole "car" thing. I will read more and more. I talked with Bob from Brute Speed and he seems like a really good guy. I guess he has a guy that lives close to me and would be willing to work on my car with me "helping". The biggest satisfaction will be learning this stuff.

I will indeed plan for the dream cruise to that awful state of Michigan (I am a Buckeye and graduated from Ohio State). And yes RAND49ER I will take you up on your offer. Well, I think for the time being I need to do all the REVSHIFT stuff and maybe some FG2's or K dubs. I have alot of research to do. Hopefully I can meet some of you as time goes along. Sorry I can't contribute much to this forum....maybe someday!!!

jmsweetv
05-13-13, 08:39 PM
Any response to this post?

"The LS6 heads are not ok with a Maggie. They will raise compression. Use the truck 6.0 heads and lower the compression some and then you can have a little more boost. There are much better blower cams out there than using a off the shelf LS6 cam. If you are just trying to keep the price down, then use the LS6 cam and go with the truck heads".

I understand what this guy is saying with the compression being an issue with stock heads. Apparently the LQ9 have a bigger combustion chamber which will lower compression. Then I could use a 2.8 on the maggie and not heat her up to bad.

I may have more money than sense here..yes atleast I admit it...but lets get crazy a little. I have not yet been able to talk to a reputable shop except Bob @ Brute Speed and we didn't get down to specifics yet just wanted to establish a base with him.

Until then I'm driving myself crazy from reading post on said topic that usually have different opinions not to mention weeding out whom I think knows there stuff.

Does anyone feel my pain?????

darkman
05-13-13, 08:51 PM
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Static%20vs%20Dynamic.html

jmsweetv
05-13-13, 09:10 PM
I get your drift

DMM
05-13-13, 10:08 PM
Any response to this post?

"The LS6 heads are not ok with a Maggie. They will raise compression. Use the truck 6.0 heads and lower the compression some and then you can have a little more boost. There are much better blower cams out there than using a off the shelf LS6 cam. If you are just trying to keep the price down, then use the LS6 cam and go with the truck heads".

I understand what this guy is saying with the compression being an issue with stock heads. Apparently the LQ9 have a bigger combustion chamber which will lower compression. Then I could use a 2.8 on the maggie and not heat her up to bad.

I may have more money than sense here..yes atleast I admit it...but lets get crazy a little. I have not yet been able to talk to a reputable shop except Bob @ Brute Speed and we didn't get down to specifics yet just wanted to establish a base with him.

Until then I'm driving myself crazy from reading post on said topic that usually have different opinions not to mention weeding out whom I think knows there stuff.

Does anyone feel my pain?????


Who on Earth is telling you this load of bullshit? While some of the info is theoretically correct, it is totally misapplied to your application. Plain and simple, the Maggie 112 cannot generate enough airflow to necessitate reducing your compression ratio by almost a full point. My TVS 2300 E Force, or Tommy's Whipple, absolutely...no way in hell a Maggie would ever require this unless you had a larger head unit.

If for some reason you really needed to lower your compression ratio, do it with the cam through dynamic compression (DCR). Another thing to consider is the 243 chamber is MUCH more efficient than the 317's (which are the truck heads you have been ill-advised to install) and you can safely use more ignition advance with the higher compression 243 heads than the 317's b/c of this. If you're dead set on modding and money is burning a hole in your pocket, get a cam and leave the heads alone. You have to decide whether you want lope at idle, something easy or harsh on the valve springs, etc. DO NOT LET ANYONE TALK YOU INTO A GT9 CAM! You will hit your ceiling (power wise) with any cam in the 220/230 duration @ .050" range, with .580"-600" lift, and 116*-120* LSA. Again, the Maggie is the limiting factor here so go with the drivability and level of servicing that you are comfortable with.

One last thing, the heads (or any other internal engine part) have no bearing on how "hot" the supercharger gets. That is based on the supercharger itself. The harder it works to compress the charge, the hotter the charge will be (pressure/temperature relationship being tied). Bigger/more efficient supercharger = less heating of the charge. The 2.8" pulley came on my Maggie stock, I didn't think it was an upgrade. Did you mean 2.6"?

Let me edit here before someone calls me on it....more efficient combustion chambers require less timing advance than inefficient ones do, so my saying that "more timing" is not entirely accurate. However, you will make more power with less chance of detonation with a more efficient chamber as chamber design also contributes to the detonation potential. Sorry, my mind goes faster than my stubby little fingers do.

RyRidesMotoX
05-14-13, 01:34 AM
If you want to help with a hot air charge you would ideally run Method/H2O injection or E85. Or hell do both. But look up some of these guys blower builds. If money isn't an issue for you get an Eforce or another Eaton TVS based unit. Hell even a Whipple twin screw will do lots better than a Maggie. In the laws of engine dynamics... Efficiency is key. The newer generation TVS superchargers are pretty darn efficient... Look up tommy compton's build thread... That thing makes my penis move... Its pretty badass

Edit: before anyone says E85 doesn't cool the air charge... I know. But it is less prone to predetonation than normal dyno fuel. And you can run more boost with it usually... If you can get enough ethanol in the cylinders.

Skidmarcx
05-14-13, 01:25 PM
I thought e85 did somewhat cool the charge ... And if money isn't an issue go turbo...

RyRidesMotoX
05-14-13, 01:43 PM
I thought e85 did somewhat cool the charge ... And if money isn't an issue go turbo...

Not really. It is an alcohol based fuel so I guess it does marginally. Water/meth injection is better... You use so much fuel when you are running ethanol (about 30% more in fact) it kind of cools the air charge.

Skidmarcx
05-14-13, 05:45 PM
Yea that's what I figured it was a slight cooling effect from the extra volume and evaporation... Meth injection like you said would be nice

jmsweetv
05-14-13, 07:52 PM
Ok I have made a decision. Staying stock and have Brute Speed Blower Cam installed with some other supporting mods. I run n/a for awhile.
Parts list:
Timing Chain Comp 3153KT $118.95
Push Rods Comp 7955-16 $125.00
Roller Lifters Comp 8956-16 $545.25
High Volume Oil Pump Melling 10296 $144.99
Brute Speed Forced Induction Camshaft Brute Speed Cam $389.99 Dur @ .50 232 int/240exh Lift .595int/.608exh Lobe Sep 115.0
Valve Spring Kit Comp 26926-16TI-KIT $529.99
Comp Cams Rocker Arm Trunion Updrage Kit Comp 13702-KIT $129.95
Kooks Headers 1-7/8 Kooks 6751 $1,011.08 *prefer ARP bolts
Magnaflow Catback Exhaust Magnaflow 16638 $903.11 *comes with free taylor wires
Spark Plugs ?
Spec Stage 2+ SC683H $494.98
Spec Flywheel SC75S $254.98
Concentric Hydraulic Release Bearing/Slave Assembly CTS-V 2004-2007 $209.00
Clutch Master Cylinder CTS-V 2004-2007 $125.00

Brute Speed Tune ? $500.00 ?
$5,482.27
Opinions???????

darkman
05-14-13, 08:21 PM
The 26926 valve springs have a 505-pound rate with 470 pounds of open spring pressure, which is too much for stock rockers (with or without the trunion upgrade kit.) If you like Comp, consider the 26925 - it is good for lifts up to 0.650 inch (the 26926 is good for 0up to .675 inch of lift), which is plenty for the cam you list. The 26925 has a 400-pound spring rate with 405 pounds of open spring pressure which stock rockers can handle.

I have no direct experience with them, but Spec clutches get a lot bad reviews on LS-engine forums.

jmsweetv
05-14-13, 08:36 PM
Ok. Spec is what he carries but is not pushing it. I thought a ls7 clutch would do good for now. So if I uograded to some RR (which i wanted anyway for no particular reason) then the springs would be ok and wouldn't need the trunion upgrade. Total adds up quick!!

The reason for his services is his reputation on LSITECH and he is close. I also like his blower cam sound -

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwQUGnvQcQY

What rockers would you go with? Harland Sharp?

Thanks again darkman, your help has been much appreciated. I will contribute $$$ to this forum.

Maybe you have a better parts list all together :suspense:

darkman
05-14-13, 09:16 PM
None of the roller rockers that are legitimately rated for springs with 470 pounds of open spring pressure are cheap. The ones I know of are the Crane Gold Race rocker arms (rated to 700 pounds of open spring pressure); Jesel Sportsmans (rated to 900 pounds open spring pressure), and Comp 1500 adjustable rocker (not sure of the spring rating but it is high.)

On the other hand, if you use springs with 410 pounds or less, the Yella Terra Ultra lites are hard to beat.

jmsweetv
05-16-13, 02:28 AM
Well after much thought I finally talked with Texas Speed and Erin really helped me out. Final answer: LS6 2.5 heads, 228r cam 112 lsa, tsp pushrods, ls7 lifters, ls2 timing chain, melling oil pump, FAST 36# inj, Kooks 1 7/8, magnaflow cat back with no cats and x pipe, yella terra 1.7 rockers, ls7 clutch w/ ram alum flywheel, ported ls6 TB.

Probably have Mike Norris due the install and tune.

I should be happy with this for some time. When I need something faster I'll get a ZO6 !! (still keep the caddy as I really think its a cool sedan).

Thanks to all for advice and direction.

Maybe I'll post some numbers when all finished but it will be similar to alot of Vs already on here.

DMM
05-16-13, 06:13 PM
I really think you have no idea what you want or what you are doing, your build has changed three times in this thread alone. I would take the time to go through this site and others (LS1 Tech has lots of info and builds esp in their engine sections) and see actual builds to gather real world data. Texas speed heads are at the lower end of the spectrum performance wise, but priced right up there with actual performance pieces. They build good motors, but their head programs have always sucked...if you look at how their flow tested and compare them to others you'll see that. Independent testing found TSP to be 40-60 CFM lower than advertised (this was on their stage III 317 heads).

Use the Brain Tooley springs and stock rockers, aftermarket rollers are unnecessary and break often.

It's hard work trying to save people from themselves.

rand49er
05-16-13, 06:22 PM
Don't forget to throw a couple of bucks in there to have the Magnaflow mated up with the Kooks by your local muffler shop.

RyRidesMotoX
05-16-13, 08:24 PM
It's hard work trying to save people from themselves.

Sometimes people need to make their own mistakes

DMM
05-16-13, 10:14 PM
Going through and re-reading my post I really sound like a dick..my apologies. Not my true intent at all, and I don't direct this at you. It seems that vendors are more than happy to sell you their own products for the simple reason that you called them, not that you will truly benefit from using their particular combination. The LS motors have been around for long enough that there are proven builds without having to spend a ton of coin. Contrary to popular belief, OE parts can be used in place of expensive aftermarket parts when they would not be of any benefit anyhow, so save your money.



One example N/A that would be good for about 415 +/- whp:

- Send your current heads to AI (advanced inductions) for their CNC program: $950
- BTR Springs/retainers/locks: $220
- Cam (Martin @ Tick): $395
- LS2 Timing Chain: $40
- OE LS1 head gaskets, bolts, etc: $200
- Push rods: $110
- OBX 1 7/8" Headers (Kooks clones): $700
- TPIS Modified LS6 intake for LS2 T. Body: $500 (Or FAST 92 for $900)
- LS2 90mm T. Body & Harness: $500
- CAI: $200 (can build your own also)
- Custom tune: $500

Maggie Build (note: will dyno low 470ish range but will kill on the street b/c of torque):

- Maggie: $6500
- OBX Headers: $700
- Cam Motion 220/230 .59x"/58x" @ 116* +4: $400 (a 220/235 would be ideal)
- LS2 Timing chain: $40
- Summit OD Crank Pulley: $350
- Custom Tune: $500

jmsweetv
05-17-13, 01:42 AM
I really think you have no idea what you want or what you are doing, your build has changed three times in this thread alone. I would take the time to go through this site and others (LS1 Tech has lots of info and builds esp in their engine sections) and see actual builds to gather real world data. Texas speed heads are at the lower end of the spectrum performance wise, but priced right up there with actual performance pieces. They build good motors, but their head programs have always sucked...if you look at how their flow tested and compare them to others you'll see that. Independent testing found TSP to be 40-60 CFM lower than advertised (this was on their stage III 317 heads).


Use the Brain Tooley springs and stock rockers, aftermarket rollers are unnecessary and break often.

It's hard work trying to save people from themselves.

Thanks for your hard work saving me, I really appreciate that. Since you are obviously smarter than me (as I sit here at work making $57/hr) it makes me laugh that a couple months from now I too will be able to ramble on like the rest of you geniuses (sorry rand49er - you have been really nice). Most motor enthusiast I know when asked "how exactly would you build my motor and with what parts" would give me a nice recipe.
So, DMM I now know you like to type and insult people through your computer in a public forum how and with what parts would you build my motor with 10k (limited by wife b/c just bought car outright) or would that be too much copy and pasting for you?
PLEASE save me!!!

RyRidesMotoX
05-17-13, 01:56 AM
I'm gonna steal that build from you and the rest if the LS world. Lol... I woild love to ha 400whp. I'm a little sketched about putting it on an engine with 80-90k miles though.

jmsweetv
05-17-13, 02:15 AM
Going through and re-reading my post I really sound like a dick..my apologies. Not my true intent at all, and I don't direct this at you. It seems that vendors are more than happy to sell you their own products for the simple reason that you called them, not that you will truly benefit from using their particular combination. The LS motors have been around for long enough that there are proven builds without having to spend a ton of coin. Contrary to popular belief, OE parts can be used in place of expensive aftermarket parts when they would not be of any benefit anyhow, so save your money.



One example N/A that would be good for about 415 +/- whp:

- Send your current heads to AI (advanced inductions) for their CNC program: $950
- BTR Springs/retainers/locks: $220
- Cam (Martin @ Tick): $395
- LS2 Timing Chain: $40
- OE LS1 head gaskets, bolts, etc: $200
- Push rods: $110
- OBX 1 7/8" Headers (Kooks clones): $700
- TPIS Modified LS6 intake for LS2 T. Body: $500 (Or FAST 92 for $900)
- LS2 90mm T. Body & Harness: $500
- CAI: $200 (can build your own also)
- Custom tune: $500

Maggie Build (note: will dyno low 470ish range but will kill on the street b/c of torque):

- Maggie: $6500
- OBX Headers: $700
- Cam Motion 220/230 .59x"/58x" @ 116* +4: $400 (a 220/235 would be ideal)
- LS2 Timing chain: $40
- Summit OD Crank Pulley: $350
- Custom Tune: $500

Apology accepted. Its not the money, its the fun to gather aftermarket parts, look at them in amusement, take to the builder and hopefully be happy with result. Being that this is my first relatively fast car, I want to ease into everything. Thats why I finally chose to go N/A and then MAGGIE or big cubes later. All of this will give me the oppurtunity to learn. As a former motocrosser (quit b/c of knee and neck injuries over 18 years of racing) I still have passion to go fast, just in a straight line and on the ground this time.

RyRidesMotoX
05-17-13, 05:45 AM
Apology accepted. Its not the money, its the fun to gather aftermarket parts, look at them in amusement, take to the builder and hopefully be happy with result. Being that this is my first relatively fast car, I want to ease into everything. Thats why I finally chose to go N/A and then MAGGIE or big cubes later. All of this will give me the oppurtunity to learn. As a former motocrosser (quit b/c of knee and neck injuries over 18 years of racing) I still have passion to go fast, just in a straight line and on the ground this time.

What kind if bike did you have? I got a husqvarna TC250 right now. Love that stuff but my hip, shoulders, head and countless bones don't.

I am gonna do a NA build for now. There is nothing wrong with building in stages. Figure out what you like and what you would change and then go from there. I'm saving up for it right now. I'm gonna have the motor punched out to a little over 400. Then after a few years I'll put a 2300tvs on it and a new cam and valve train for some more power. 700hp should keep me plenty busy. I love boosted motors, whether its on a turbo 4 banger or a turbo diesel boost is fun.

Oh and don't forget supporting mods like trans, oil, and diff coolers and such. More power means more heat and keeping temps in check is important.

rand49er
05-17-13, 10:41 AM
The thing I like about the FI route is you can take DMM's list minus the cam and the timing chain, and it's mostly a "bolt on" with no dismantling of the heads and reassembly of them. The most cracking open of the motor you have to do is removal of the intake manifold. I did all this in my little ol' suburban garage next to my lawnmower. Besides being an easier install, the results are very satisfying particularly for street driving.


Just a footnote: Lots of different mod "lists" can be assembled by a lot of different guys. Obviously, the trick is putting a list together that contains an efficiently complimentary set with no unneeded components and no omissions while not breaking the bank thus balancing cost, motor longevity, and performance gains. I do not possess the knowledge to judge it, but I do marvel at lists such as DMM's, above. Just being able to throw out a couple of lists like that belies the fact that a ton of reading has gone into their creation. Further, DMM has posted his lists for anyone to throw stones at (as did the OP with "stones" having been thrown). This is all good stuff. :thumbsup:

brngrhd
05-17-13, 11:41 PM
Going through and re-reading my post I really sound like a dick..my apologies. Not my true intent at all, and I don't direct this at you. It seems that vendors are more than happy to sell you their own products for the simple reason that you called them, not that you will truly benefit from using their particular combination. The LS motors have been around for long enough that there are proven builds without having to spend a ton of coin. Contrary to popular belief, OE parts can be used in place of expensive aftermarket parts when they would not be of any benefit anyhow, so save your money.



One example N/A that would be good for about 415 +/- whp:

- Send your current heads to AI (advanced inductions) for their CNC program: $950
- BTR Springs/retainers/locks: $220
- Cam (Martin @ Tick): $395
- LS2 Timing Chain: $40
- OE LS1 head gaskets, bolts, etc: $200
- Push rods: $110
- OBX 1 7/8" Headers (Kooks clones): $700
- TPIS Modified LS6 intake for LS2 T. Body: $500 (Or FAST 92 for $900)
- LS2 90mm T. Body & Harness: $500
- CAI: $200 (can build your own also)
- Custom tune: $500

Maggie Build (note: will dyno low 470ish range but will kill on the street b/c of torque):

- Maggie: $6500
- OBX Headers: $700
- Cam Motion 220/230 .59x"/58x" @ 116* +4: $400 (a 220/235 would be ideal)
- LS2 Timing chain: $40
- Summit OD Crank Pulley: $350
- Custom Tune: $500

Do the OBX headers bolt up to borla exhaust with out modification?
Got a part number on the OD pulley?

Hammar
05-21-13, 05:45 PM
:popcorn.....

Just to add for fodder, I'm running a maggie on a nearly stock 2005. Headers, LS2 Throttle body, overdrive damper, no cats, LS-9/katech clutch, 1 step colder plugs, self tuned.

I put the maggie on at ~110k miles, I'm almost at 135k now. I've never had the valve covers/oil pan off, it's completely stock internal. Now, it's also probably a ticking time bomb.... but I've been delicate with timing (14-16 degrees total at full boogie ~10psi) and a little heavy on fuel, and just enjoy the heck out of it.

You can go a long ways on stock parts if you're carefull with the toon. I'll do valve springs and maybe a cam some time in the future (after a trans rebuild....), but I'm not sure I'd change much more. It's already way to easy to get in trouble :)

Good luck,

Hammar
Maggied 2005

brngrhd
05-22-13, 01:56 PM
:popcorn.....

Just to add for fodder, I'm running a maggie on a nearly stock 2005. Headers, LS2 Throttle body, overdrive damper, no cats, LS-9/katech clutch, 1 step colder plugs, self tuned.

I put the maggie on at ~110k miles, I'm almost at 135k now. I've never had the valve covers/oil pan off, it's completely stock internal. Now, it's also probably a ticking time bomb.... but I've been delicate with timing (14-16 degrees total at full boogie ~10psi) and a little heavy on fuel, and just enjoy the heck out of it.

You can go a long ways on stock parts if you're carefull with the toon. I'll do valve springs and maybe a cam some time in the future (after a trans rebuild....), but I'm not sure I'd change much more. It's already way to easy to get in trouble :)

Good luck,

Hammar
Maggied 2005

Who's OD damper? Part number? I'm looking for one but without going to an 8 rib have not found one.

Hammar
05-22-13, 02:13 PM
It's an Over Drive damper, by Innovaters West. Here's the link to one on the Hendricks site.

This is an 8-rib damper, but I'm only running a 6 rib belt on it. Thought I might want to step up some day, so spent just a little extra so I wouldn't have to upgrade later.

http://w.ivenue.com/hendrixengineering/ecommerce/storeview/cts-v/innovators-west-pulleys/2004-2008-cts-v-8-rib-drive.html

Hammar
Maggied 2005

RyRidesMotoX
05-22-13, 04:09 PM
Have you dynod the car with that Maggie?

Skidmarcx
05-22-13, 05:36 PM
The guy that bought my 04 dyno'd 498/505 on 93 octane... Stock long block, headers, IW overdrive dampener, 2.6" upper

RyRidesMotoX
05-22-13, 06:24 PM
The guy that bought my 04 dyno'd 498/505 on 93 octane... Stock long block, headers, IW overdrive dampener, 2.6" upper

That's not too bad at all.

Skidmarcx
05-22-13, 08:52 PM
Agreed... Can't ask for much more from a Maggie... I was having clutch problems and could only hit a 12.22@120, so he installed his spare LS7 kit and ran an 11.94@123... Damn good for the car and power combo

RyRidesMotoX
05-23-13, 12:07 AM
Yea for sure. everyone makes it seem like maggies are horrible. But in reality 500hp at the wheels is pretty respectable. I still want to get the stock heads machined and a nice cam put in before I step up to forced induction. Still debating on a Maggie hybrid roots over an Eaton TVS type. I kinda wanted 600 at the wheels but I would definitely have the lower end beefed up with some forged parts... Meh doesn't matter anyhow, I got a wedding coming up next year and all my money is going into that... After the wedding though, I'm gonna set aside some funds every month til there is enough money to have it transformed into something so diabolical, even the devil himself wouldn't dare challenge the V.

Skidmarcx
05-23-13, 11:02 AM
Well Grats on the wedding... And I would just go turbo... Just my two cents

RyRidesMotoX
05-23-13, 12:57 PM
Well Grats on the wedding... And I would just go turbo... Just my two cents

Thanks... Well I had a turbo car before. It was just a little 4 banger cobalt SS but it was a blast. I still haven't decided on what route I'm gonna do. I am not going to go FI until I have a built lower end and probably an 8.8 in the rear. I don't particularly like breaking things. I would rather do it correctly the first time. I remember me and a buddy at work (he drives a C5) were talking about car stuff and he asked what I wanted to do and I told him. He asked how much it would cost. I just shot out a number and was like probably $15k in parts. and another $5k for all the machining and installation since I'm probably going to have the motor work done. I'll do most of the suspension and rear end myself. But I don't have a engine picker and other stuff to do the job properly.

Skidmarcx
05-23-13, 02:13 PM
The stock long blocks can handle some power with the right tune... Obviously if you want LOTS of power I agree build the motor... Smart idea doing the drivetrain first

RyRidesMotoX
05-23-13, 04:12 PM
I've heard of stock long blocks and rotating assemblies taking 600whp or a little more. And I have no doubt that can happen. Buuuut I don't want to do it on a motor with 100k miles. Just kind of seems more like a when than if it will blow up.

philistine
05-29-13, 12:54 PM
He asked how much it would cost. I just shot out a number and was like probably $15k in parts. and another $5k for all the machining and installation since I'm probably going to have the motor work done.

Wow, for $20k that's a whole car: 4-banger, turbo, clutch, TB, exhaust, Ti springs, AEM...the works that would make 500whp reliably! :hide:

To the OP...If going the SC route, for simplicity I would go with the Maggie. It bolts on in a weekend and is self-contained. It pushes the LS6 block within the safe limits of stock. For added safety, change the springs - 4-6 hrs. The kit even comes with a tune. That totals about $6500-7000. In one weekend, you can then begin destroying your axles, rear-end, and clutch with aggressive street driving.

RyRidesMotoX
05-29-13, 05:54 PM
Wow, for $20k that's a whole car: 4-banger, turbo, clutch, TB, exhaust, Ti springs, AEM...the works that would make 500whp reliably! :hide:



I've had a turbo 4 banger. They do alright. But for that $20k the drivetrain would be indestructible. CS rear end, rebuilt trans with all the goodies, 1000hp clutch/flywheel, forged lowered end punched out some, ported heads with good valvetrain and a big ass TVS or KB twin screw on it. I'm not sure how much you have looked into Honda race parts, or other 4 Banger's part but to do them right is a pretty penny... Motors are as much or more than LS blocks depending on what you get. My cobalt SS had a block good to like 500whp from factory and with a turbo swap it could have got there... But there were transmission issues, steering issues, and the fact you are driving a 4 banner and I really missed the v8 rumble.

I hear what you're saying though... Its a retarded amount to spend on this car. But it would make a ridiculous amount of power reliably

philistine
05-30-13, 11:23 PM
I agree with what you're saying to a point. Take the Honda F20c and F22c, they come with forged bottoms etc and ready to boost to ~500whp, same with the equivalent K-series Honda engines. Just boost and go! With the right platform $10k on a 4-banger yields equivalent results minus the torque. I like the LS engines and realize the safe limit on my LS6 is about the same as the stock Honda F20c I have loaded in my s2k. The 2 cars are worlds apart but when I compare the 2 sitting in my garage, I can't stop thinking that one is built robust and the other sloppy - strictly speaking platforms. So when I'm comparing platforms, I think the V1 has more hurdles to overcome and thus drives the price higher for the same whp and reliability. For double the money, yeah I think the V1 comes out a clear winner with all that V8 awesomeness.

I think the V1 and V2 platforms are the best looking 4 door sports cars out there. For $20k in mods, yeah the V1 is untouchable compared with most of the import bolt-ons. To bring the V1 into the same circuit with a bolt-on roots blower, you have wheel hop issues, rear-end worries, and possible axle failure. Those are the same issues that some imports have with the same power at ~500 whp rowing through the gears.

Seriously, I just wish the V1 platform could handle bolt-on power without rear-end/axle worries with a simple bolt-on roots blower. While I'm wishing, perhaps a better shifter that doesn't feel like I'm shifting a 18 wheeler- what a POS design.

RyRidesMotoX
05-30-13, 11:51 PM
Oh see you are talking rwd 4 bangers. I know guys with boosted s2ks with 700hp totally awesome on the track and the road. I love those things... I was thinking fwd. 99% of 4 bangers are fwd. Some great cars are 4 pots with rwd, S2000, miatas, the new BRZ, old Celicas, etc etc but very few people have them in comparison to the standard econo box with a fart can. The big problem with doing mods to anything fwd is that the chassis can't handle the power. My cobalt was MUCH faster than the V I have in every aspect... Handling, straight line, stopping... It was even better than many other cars around at the track that should be faster. I would like to think that was because I was a better driver but I don't think it was. My main reason for the V was because a baby seat wouldn't fit in the cobalt. I wanted something that still had the potential to be fast and was large enough for the kid and all the shit that comes along when we take him anywhere. I would have got an RS4 but they were like $10k more than the V. So I'm working with what I got now. But yea... Money no option I would be driving a BMW m5 but that's not the case lol