: In a matter of days



flushing
01-12-05, 07:32 AM
Toyota will become the worlds largest auto manufacturer within a year or two. I'm sure GM has spent huge amounts of money trying to find out why this is happening. Don't you guys drive the auto's you make? If you had to service your auto's yourselfs instead of getting a new auto every year, you would know. If you listened to your customers who got stucked with so many of your auto's, you would know. If you had to put up with your dealers service and attitudes, you would know.

Can't you make a well built reliable auto. You depend too much on gimmicks, The Hummer, Corvette and such while other manufacturers are kidding your butt builting good everyday, dependable auto's (Camry comes to mind). Even your Cadillac Group puts out auto's of such poor quality,(Catera, Cimmion comes to mind) Why do Lexus, Infinity and other such lines completly kid your buns. You make it easy for them.

When will you learn that the most important things people want in an auto are reliability and safety. A pretty face is good, but when your broken down on the road, a pretty face will get you no where.

My area looks the a Japanese parking center. Everyone is buying Japanese auto's. If Nissan was able to come back from dealt in such a short period of time, why can't GM get it's act togetter. You can give all the rebates you want, when I buy an auto my first concern is reliabiliity.

I just sold my Catera yesterday. What a piece of crap that was. All the people who got stuck with that lemon will be sure to buy another Cadillac in the future (just making a joke).

If you guys have wifes, kids who drive, family members don't you get their honest feed back about the autoes you make. I asume they drive GM products, or do they.

I guess what I'm trying to say is what planet are you guys on that your pissing away your markets and making it so easy for your competitors.

p.s. I own a Chevy Blazer and a Pontiac Grand Am. As I said I just got rid of my nighmare 97 Catera.

Vrocks
01-28-05, 07:08 PM
I just sold my Catera yesterday. What a piece of crap that was. All the people who got stuck with that lemon will be sure to buy another Cadillac in the future (just making a joke).

Yeah, the Catera wasn't one of their "finest" creations. :rolleyes: But they have woken up, it just takes some time to change to momentum with such a large corporation. Cadillac's has changed its image quicker than I could have ever imagined.

I can tell you Lexus is a major turn off (never really turned me on) now with this new "LF = L Finesse" CRAP they're pushing, and they just can't style a car.

Toyota has really been rolling since the early 80's, and I think GM may be passed in the next few years, but I see them regaining #1 status.

The biggest issue for GM in the future might be the expense of contraction, i.e. eliminating an unneeded franchise, such as OLDS. Then they can spend more on brands that can better differentiate themselves, thus developing stronger vehicles. In short, they can give a little with the prospect of gaining a lot in return (money, market share, greater solidity).

Rolex
01-29-05, 11:28 PM
I hate it when people buy a VERY used vehicle without devoting a second thought to its previous owners and (lack of) maintenance, the vehicle turns out to be a total piece of junk that was mistreated, and they come here to bash Cadillac for making low quality vehicles.

You bought a 1997 Catera (an 8 year old car) and I'll bet the appearance is about 99% of what you considered in your "research" based on your old posts.



I really love my 97 catera. It looks great and the interior is the best I've ever had. The Bose audio system is the best. I sometimes sit in the auto just to listen to some cd's from the 12 disk player in the trunk. Of couse, all the gauges, and so on are really something. I had a cadillac Seville for over ten years that was just great. Beautiful and reliable. It just rusted away, otherwise I would still be driving it.

Next time you might try having a mechanic give a USED 8 year old car a "once over" before you buy. You troll around these forums plugging how great you think Toyotas are, go buy an 8 year old Camary and see how well it holds up. An intelligent person couldn't logically blame Cadillac when a used 8 year old car falls apart.

BeelzeBob
01-30-05, 08:38 AM
The older Catera's were problematic.. Wasn't '97 the first year? The first year of a new vehicle or a new version of a new vehicle always has problems. Add to that, that you may have had a lemon, and you'll really be unsatisfied.. It happens...

Sandy
01-30-05, 09:16 AM
The Asian brands and the German brands can make the finest cars in the world, trouble-free, good looking, last a lifetime, yada yada yada sis boom bang..... I have not forgotten German's Reich, the gas chambers and what they did, nor have I forgotten Pearl Harbor. They can both stick their cars where the sun don't shine. I would not buy a Miserable-Bends S600 V-12 nor a DisLexus LS for $6,000 brand new. In my mind, they don't even exist, nor do I even notice them on the road, or look with interest at their new models.
Germany is over there, with France in refusing to help us. You wanna change the name of FRENCH FRIES to FRIENDLY FRIES, which you will get driving over in yoir Miserable Bends?? Explain? China & Japan only look for our American dollars to boost their economy waaay past our own.
F Toyopet !! :brutal:

Vesicant
01-31-05, 12:09 AM
(no offense to anyone on here)

But why judge an entire automobile company on one car?

MetaPhaze
02-02-05, 05:25 PM
(no offense to anyone on here)

But why judge an entire automobile company on one car?

Because most people don't have the capacity to think before they speak.

Eric2203
02-06-05, 03:18 PM
The Asian brands and the German brands can make the finest cars in the world, trouble-free, good looking, last a lifetime, yada yada yada sis boom bang..... I have not forgotten German's Reich, the gas chambers and what they did, nor have I forgotten Pearl Harbor. They can both stick their cars where the sun don't shine. I would not buy a Miserable-Bends S600 V-12 nor a DisLexus LS for $6,000 brand new. In my mind, they don't even exist, nor do I even notice them on the road, or look with interest at their new models.
Germany is over there, with France in refusing to help us. You wanna change the name of FRENCH FRIES to FRIENDLY FRIES, which you will get driving over in yoir Miserable Bends?? Explain? China & Japan only look for our American dollars to boost their economy waaay past our own.
F Toyopet !! :brutal:

That's a little extreme. You're judging entire countries based on what some of their people did wrong over half a century ago. It should not be forgotten, but it shouldn't be thrown to their faces forever either. Most (note the most) germans are ashamed of their past, for example. I'd venture to say it's the same in Japan. Plus, what a government decided at one point in time doesn't mean every single person in that country agreed with it. And some of these people (well their grandkids and further) make these cars. Not quite sure they'd appreciate losing sales based on such arguments. The US aren't perfect either...

PS: The Freedom Fries stupidity is a childish reaction to a serious problem. Whoever thought that up should be fired on the spot.

cadillacmike68
02-16-05, 09:52 AM
GM dealers service and additudes???? Toyota has the WORST dealers in the business. Selling "etching" jobs that cost $45.00 for $2,500.00!!!! the bogus "Gold packages", and ther well known ingrained habit of gouging customer every chance they get. All for a jelly bean on wheels!!!

cadillacmike68
02-16-05, 09:59 AM
Lexass = toyota with a gfew bells and whistles plus a $15,000.00 price increase!

I remember when GM had nearly 50% market share...

cadillacmike68
02-16-05, 10:14 AM
That's a little extreme. You're judging entire countries based on what some of their people did wrong over half a century ago. It should not be forgotten, but it shouldn't be thrown to their faces forever either. Most (note the most) germans are ashamed of their past, for example. I'd venture to say it's the same in Japan. Plus, what a government decided at one point in time doesn't mean every single person in that country agreed with it. And some of these people (well their grandkids and further) make these cars. Not quite sure they'd appreciate losing sales based on such arguments. The US aren't perfect either...

PS: The Freedom Fries stupidity is a childish reaction to a serious problem. Whoever thought that up should be fired on the spot.

You'r right about Germany but DEAD WRONG about Japan. They have enshrined yammamoto's supposedly unmarked grave site, and the entire nation and people have NEVER faced up to the reality of what THEY DID TO START the whole mess over a TEN YEAR PERIOD up to 7 December 1941. They continue to think of themselves as "victims" mainly because of hiroshima and nagasaki (Mazda's factory is in hiro by the way).

They'll never admit their responsibility for their acts as a people and a nation. Go dig up and read the empoere's imperial rescripts of their "declaration of war" and their surrender announcement. They are hilarious reads until one thinks of the 10-20 million dead chinese and over 200,000 dead Americans it took to get japan off it's world dominance bent.

ben72227
02-16-05, 10:15 PM
Hmmm. This all seems quite interesting. While Sandy may not recognize that German or Japanese automakers exist, I do:sneaky:

Even if you get past the reliability issues, Jap cars (especially Mazda) are much more enjoyable to drive than your average GM/Ford American car. For example, why buy a Chevy Cavalier when you can get a Mazda 3 or Honda Civic? Granted, Hondas are quite UGLY nowadays, but they still hold up and are *practically* maintainance free.


When will you learn that the most important things people want in an auto are reliability and safety. A pretty face is good, but when your broken down on the road, a pretty face will get you no where.

This is a very good point i think. While the Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, and even the Cadillac STS look quite nice, they are still unproven in terms of reliability and unfortunately the general public will most certainly associate them with being poor reliabilty vehicles, which may or may not be the case. Certainly I hope that GM has tried to improve their vehicles, and It's pretty obvious to everyone that Lutz is trying hard to give the public perception that there is a "new" GM or as Chevy calls it an "American Revolution" However, I, as most people, are still quite skeptical of whether or not these new cars will be good or not.

And flushing, its your fault for buying a CATERA! EVERYONE KNOWS that it is quite possibly one of the worst cars Cadillac has ever made and shame on you for not researching about it to know this!

berkin
02-16-05, 11:11 PM
The Lexus LS is just a Toyota Celsior. (yes I know about the Catera and the CLS...we should start a petition to ban the BLS).

http://hk.geocities.com/estima_toyota1/tcr44.jpg

http://hk.geocities.com/estima_toyota1/tcr42.jpg

http://www.rakuten.ne.jp/gold/eco-drive/images/user/toyota/celsior-3.jpg

Eric2203
02-17-05, 09:01 PM
You'r right about Germany but DEAD WRONG about Japan. They have enshrined yammamoto's supposedly unmarked grave site, and the entire nation and people have NEVER faced up to the reality of what THEY DID TO START the whole mess over a TEN YEAR PERIOD up to 7 December 1941. They continue to think of themselves as "victims" mainly because of hiroshima and nagasaki (Mazda's factory is in hiro by the way).

They'll never admit their responsibility for their acts as a people and a nation. Go dig up and read the empoere's imperial rescripts of their "declaration of war" and their surrender announcement. They are hilarious reads until one thinks of the 10-20 million dead chinese and over 200,000 dead Americans it took to get japan off it's world dominance bent.

I can't agree with "entire nation and people". Can't just generalize. I said MOST Germans above, not all of them. And even then, I was generalizing a little. I work with some Japanese people right here in the USA (no, nothing to do with cars :p ) and I don't see that attitude. I'm sure there are some of them who understand the ins and outs of what happened then. Just like some are probably like you described.

In any case, I wouldn't buy a car based on this. I don't much like Japanese cars, but that has nothing to do with WW2. And as I said before, the US and other WW2 allies aren't perfect either, as far as their actions in the world go. It would be foolish to believe so. So I find it a little amusing (or maybe it's sad) to reject everything from a particular country... But that's just me.

BeelzeBob
02-18-05, 01:09 PM
The Lexus LS is just a Toyota Celsior.[/img]

What do you mean "just"?

LoneRanger
02-18-05, 01:12 PM
It is a tough world out there for any generation and today in America with the dog eat dog mentality in the business world and scourges like Enron, Adelphia, etc and huge pay rates for executives who are motivated to increase the bottom line anyway they can to improve their golden parachute (such as shipping jobs to unstable countries with cheap labor) it seems to me there is just a plain lack of patriotism and responsible leadership. Abe said something like, "the goal of a great leader is to get a country to accept short term pain for long term gain". Too many people living off the system of an out of controll safety net, too many people retiring too early and draining SS, too many people looking out for number one instead of asking what they can do for their country (JFK). I like my Caddy and I am proud to drive American-Made. As my father said, there is honor in producing something. America has to be careful because we are shipping all the "honor" overseas. I send send the decision makers with the jobs and make them live where the manufacturing is going. Pretty soon those decision makers would being bringing the jobs back to the states. Just my .02

scurling
02-25-05, 09:20 PM
I'm betting a lot of you guys didn't grow up in the '60s and '70s, or you would be trashing the Japaneze autos for much different reasons than war and social economic related issues.

My wife's parents were psuedo Hippies who owned, a 1970 VW Beetle, a 1972 Honda Civic, and a 1973 Toyota Corolla. Talk about junk Japanese cars.

...oh, yea, I also will never own a Chrysler product...ever heard of the "Duster", or "K" cars? :)

gygmy
02-27-05, 09:48 PM
Hey, Ain't that Catera nothing but an Opel? Are'nt they part of GM? When it comes to big corporations nationalism means squat. $$$ means everything. We all share the same DNA.We are real. Corporations are artificial induviduals. People as a whole want good products, want to produce good products, want to live in peace. A small, infintesimally small proportion of us are geedy scumbags who, when given the chance, give the rest of us hell on earth. But since we are all human and subject to the same temptations who's to say we would'nt be the next Napoleon, Gengis Kahn? Thought I'd leave Hitler out of this, he's been overworked more than a Wal-Mart greeter. Peace, Love, WOT.

BANK
02-28-05, 11:51 PM
"That's a little extreme. You're judging entire countries based on what some of their people did wrong over half a century ago. It should not be forgotten, but it shouldn't be thrown to their faces forever either." ERIC 2203

Fifty years is just the other day if your 80 years old. I know more than a few guys who will never purchase a German or Japanese car because of WW II. But, the memory of the average American is generally 2-3 months, isn't it. However, American manufactures have some ground to make up and it has been a long time coming. I am suprised how long it has taken and perceive a lack of vision on the part of US manufacturers. With that said, maybe I don't realy know what the American consumer wants. After all I just purchased a vehicle that gets poor fuel economy has a questionable reliability issues and design problems. Maybe some of you guys have heard of it, its called a Cadillac! By the way I really liked the 340 Duster it was a great car for a 18-21 year old! Opinions vary.

90Brougham350
03-01-05, 11:02 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only reason Toyota even exists because of the Korean war? My 11th grade civics teacher told us our troops needed trucks and they found this nearly bankrupt tiny little car manufacturer in Japan called Toyota. I guess it was cheaper than shipping new trucks over from America or something. I think that's the story, but that was quite a while ago I heard that. And yes, it is definately true, the first imports were absolute shit. They rusted out right away. But Honda and Toyota figured out they could build a cheap effective car with great mileage to to fight the guzzlers coming out of Detroit, and it worked. You can all say you'll never buy a Lexus or MB or BMW or Infinity, and that's fine, it's your freedom of choice, but saying they're just piles of crap isn't exactly an intellegent statement. And no, Lexus isn't just a jazzed up Toyota. Ever look under the hood of an LS 430? By your logic, a Caddy is just a jazzed up Chevy or Olds. So what if they share alot of the same engineering and parts? Ever look at an 85 Fleetwood Brougham? Looks an awful lot like a 85 Caprice, now doesn't it. And Scurling, I agree. I also will never own a Chrysler product. Just a thought.

Brian

Eric2203
03-03-05, 05:08 PM
"That's a little extreme. You're judging entire countries based on what some of their people did wrong over half a century ago. It should not be forgotten, but it shouldn't be thrown to their faces forever either." ERIC 2203

Fifty years is just the other day if your 80 years old. I know more than a few guys who will never purchase a German or Japanese car because of WW II. But, the memory of the average American is generally 2-3 months, isn't it. However, American manufactures have some ground to make up and it has been a long time coming. I am suprised how long it has taken and perceive a lack of vision on the part of US manufacturers. With that said, maybe I don't realy know what the American consumer wants. After all I just purchased a vehicle that gets poor fuel economy has a questionable reliability issues and design problems. Maybe some of you guys have heard of it, its called a Cadillac! By the way I really liked the 340 Duster it was a great car for a 18-21 year old! Opinions vary.

It's not because I live in the USA that I am American and have lived here all my life. You'd be surprised if you knew me. So please don't judge without knowing.

Whether you're 20 or 80 years old doesn't matter. It's about being a little more open-minded and tolerant. Obviously your opinion hasn't changed. Who's to say they haven't in Germany or Japan ? We'd still be at war if opinions didn't evolve.

BANK
03-04-05, 07:30 PM
I do not intend to anyone except myself. I merely express my observations, which may or may not be accutrate. Often I have no idea what the hell is going on.

cadillacmike68
03-11-05, 02:43 PM
"That's a little extreme. You're judging entire countries based on what some of their people did wrong over half a century ago. It should not be forgotten, but it shouldn't be thrown to their faces forever either." ERIC 2203

Fifty years is just the other day if your 80 years old. I know more than a few guys who will never purchase a German or Japanese car because of WW II. But, the memory of the average American is generally 2-3 months, isn't it. However, American manufactures have some ground to make up and it has been a long time coming. I am suprised how long it has taken and perceive a lack of vision on the part of US manufacturers. With that said, maybe I don't realy know what the American consumer wants. After all I just purchased a vehicle that gets poor fuel economy has a questionable reliability issues and design problems. Maybe some of you guys have heard of it, its called a Cadillac! By the way I really liked the 340 Duster it was a great car for a 18-21 year old! Opinions vary.

It's part of my job to study and know these things, so that's why I brought it up. The Japanese people and nation are very good about hiding their true feelings about WWII, so don't let a lack of commentary about it fool you.

I bought a Miata, (made in hiroshima by the way :lildevil: ) but ended up trading it for a convertible Eldorado. Still like the Miata tho'.

ccclarke
03-21-05, 08:38 PM
Is this thread really meant to be in a forum to be read by GM corporate? I thought this section of the forum was meant to help the Cadillac community communicate to GM with questions or suggestions for improvemnets to our vehicles, not debate history, morality or patriotism. While I respect folk's rights to voice their opinions, is this the proper venue? Maybe the General Discussion Section would be more appropriate.