: ATS Performance vs BMW



ATSwannabe
05-10-13, 05:02 AM
After reading most of the reviews of the ATS it appears the ideal vehicle would be an ATS chassis with a BMW 335 engine & transmission.If you look at the performance numbers the BMW is considerly faster in all aspects of acceleration and the ATS handles better than the BMW.The BMW also gets better gas mileage.I think Cadillac should have waited one more year and given the ATS an engine & transmission combination that is more competitive in this segment of the industry.

M5eater
05-10-13, 07:53 AM
I think they're just fine. the 335i was competing with the S4 before it was competing with the ATS 3.6, which is a much more expensive than the 335i is.

the 3.6 is targeting more like the C350, the Lexus IS350 and Acura TL-SH, and the LFX shines very nicely in comparison to those cars.

Honestly, mention HPFP to any N54 owner and you'll then understand why I would never own that powertrain anyway.

kmb32687
05-10-13, 09:51 AM
Performance or aftermarket parts are a lot cheaper than BMW performance or aftermarket parts. :-)

ATSwannabe
05-10-13, 09:53 AM
I think they're just fine. the 335i was competing with the S4 before it was competing with the ATS 3.6, which is a much more expensive than the 335i is.

the 3.6 is targeting more like the C350, the Lexus IS350 and Acura TL-SH, and the LFX shines very nicely in comparison to those cars.

Honestly, mention HPFP to any N54 owner and you'll then understand why I would never own that powertrain anyway.

The Audi S4 is priced is the same price range as the ATS Premium 3.6 and the 335I.The ATS 3.6 is not even close to either the S4 or the 335 performance numbers.Cadillac did a very good job in engineering the ATS chassis,I just don,t think the engine & trasmission are up to the standards of the rest of the car.If you have driven the S4 or the 335 I don,t see how you can conclude that the ATS drivetrain is equal to either of these cars.
You are correct about the HPFP on the early 335's,but this problem has been solved for several years and is no longer a factor.Any new model has growing pains as will the ATS experience.
I know it sounds like I am down on Cadillac but that is not true.I fully intend to buy either a ATS-V or a CTS VSport with the 3.6 turbo and the 8 speed transmission.I just wish they had made the 3.6 turbo and the 8 speed available when the ATS was introduced.Don't forget that Cadillacs aim with ATS was the BMW 3 series and the Mercedes C class.I think they missed on the powertrain.

louieftw
05-10-13, 11:43 AM
Having owned an E46 BMW (2000 328Ci 5MT) prior to my ATS (and another Cadillac before the BMW), I can honestly say that Germans make FAR BETTER cars than Americans. It hurts me to say it - but it's true. There is just a certain attention to detail, a certain refined quality to it. My BMW felt timeless... people couldn't believe that my car was nearly 13 years old. The 335i is a great buy if you're looking for luxury, performance, and styling to boot. Just make sure to buy a post 2010 or 2011 model so you don't run into HPFP issues. I personally would have bought one in a heartbeat, but I wanted a new car and the styling on the ATS is killer. I REALLY wanted an E46 M3, but at 21 insurance is nearly $400 a month... No thanks.

thebigjimsho
05-10-13, 03:26 PM
Far better? Laughable...

louieftw
05-10-13, 07:08 PM
Didn't GM engineers benchmark the E46 BMW when creating the ATS? There's good reason why. German engineers are crafty b*stards. After owning my BMW, I really came to appreciate the small details that made the car extremely unique and luxurious. The highlight of that car was definitely the motor - being inherently balanced, those inline-6's operate VERY smoothly. Call me crazy, but I'd take this over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXmX7Jo861M) a brand new Cadillac any day...

Siren05
05-11-13, 07:51 AM
Nothing luxurious about any 3 series.
It's blah and plain.
As far as s4 and stock 335 being far better. .3 or .04 . 0-60 is not a good judge it means nothing.
That 0-60 is due too 8 speed tranny and lying German manufacturers underating cars power wise

I've owned many cars over the years my Lexus cars were vastly superior in the luxury department.
I'm sick of hearing about heavy underpowered e46 older cars. The only one that was not underpowered was the M3.
330 was 14.5lbs per horsepower
My 2013 ATS IS 12.5lbs per horsepower
Just hate BMW fanboys.
It's not hard too make 3.0 T fast.
My 2001 IS300T MADE AROUND 750hp at the crank well over 600 thru the back wheels.

----------


Didn't GM engineers benchmark the E46 BMW when creating the ATS? There's good reason why. German engineers are crafty b*stards. After owning my BMW, I really came to appreciate the small details that made the car extremely unique and luxurious. The highlight of that car was definitely the motor - being inherently balanced, those inline-6's operate VERY smoothly. Call me crazy, but I'd take this over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXmX7Jo861M) a brand new Cadillac any day...

You are crazy

M5eater
05-11-13, 08:17 AM
The Audi S4 is priced is the same price range as the ATS Premium 3.6 and the 335I
No, it's not.

There's nearly a 10 grand price premium when similarly equipped between the s4 and 3.6 Premium which fully optioned is a 65 grand vehicle.

You can't compare a top trim premium 3.6 to a Base model s4 and call them 'close'..

Otherwise if price is your only value the cts-v is also 'close'. Do any of these cars have a GTi's worth of power hidden in the trunk?

flycaster
05-11-13, 09:31 AM
Didn't GM engineers benchmark the E46 BMW when creating the ATS? There's good reason why. German engineers are crafty b*stards. After owning my BMW, I really came to appreciate the small details that made the car extremely unique and luxurious. The highlight of that car was definitely the motor - being inherently balanced, those inline-6's operate VERY smoothly. Call me crazy, but I'd take this over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXmX7Jo861M) a brand new Cadillac any day...

Don't think you are crazy. BMW in-line 6 and don't forget its great transmission, have lead the pack since the E46s. However, after 2006 when BMW softened up the ride of the 3-series, one still gets a great ride, but due to the softening, one doesn't always know where they are on the road...IMO, a big loss of road feel after 2006.

ATSwannabe
05-11-13, 10:20 AM
No, it's not.

There's nearly a 10 grand price premium when similarly equipped between the s4 and 3.6 Premium which fully optioned is a 65 grand vehicle.

You can't compare a top trim premium 3.6 to a Base model s4 and call them 'close'

Otherwise if price is your only value the cts-v is also 'close'. Do any of these cars have a GTi's worth of power hidden in the trunk?


You also can't compare a fully optioned ATS Premium to a fully optioned S4.There are options on the S4 that are not available on the ATS.The base S4 is pretty well equiped to start with.I think you can buy a nicely equiped S4 for abot 53k.

Fraggy
05-11-13, 11:11 AM
Come on ppl, go to the dealership and test drive a 335. Thread closed.

Is it a better car, not to me. The steering, suspension and soft bushings are sub par. Ours is far superior.

But you will experience how a modern transmission should behave. And You'll quickly realize how flawed ours is.

/thread

thebigjimsho
05-11-13, 12:35 PM
Didn't GM engineers benchmark the E46 BMW when creating the ATS? There's good reason why. German engineers are crafty b*stards. After owning my BMW, I really came to appreciate the small details that made the car extremely unique and luxurious. The highlight of that car was definitely the motor - being inherently balanced, those inline-6's operate VERY smoothly. Call me crazy, but I'd take this over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXmX7Jo861M) a brand new Cadillac any day...

You're talking to someone who cut his teeth on a '72 2002 and who drove many BMW inline 6 of 80s and 90s vintage. I have only driven one 3 series and that was almost 10 years ago. And I'll never argue on the smoothness and awesomeness of a BMW inline 6.

However, I also loved the Yamaha built V6 in my SHO. And the LS6 in my '04 V was a wonderful motor. The LS9 is also a torqueful beast.

Point is, there are other awesome engines out there. And to proclaim the BMW engine as it, and that's it, is foolish. The 2.0T in the ATS is an amazingly moddable engine that will be able to hit the 400hp mark fairly easily. 350 all day with great longevity.

As for a far better CAR is concerned, that is where you are off. The ATS has the better chassis, the better handling, the better suspension, the better steering. The BMW has better space, although that's not as much of a necessity in this segment.

ATS20T
05-11-13, 01:20 PM
My BMW felt timeless... people couldn't believe that my car was nearly 13 years old.

That's because all BMWs look like they were designed thirty years ago.

Hoosier Daddy
05-11-13, 01:37 PM
And You'll quickly realize how flawed ours is.
Speak for yourself. My manual transmission is fine.

I don't want to sound callous but since all mass produced cars are compromised, I did not mind that some of the compromises with the ATS such as the automatic transmission missed me. It meant less compromises in the components I have.

Fraggy
05-11-13, 03:31 PM
Speak for yourself. My manual transmission is fine.

I don't want to sound callous but since all mass produced cars are compromised, I did not mind that some of the compromises with the ATS such as the automatic transmission missed me. It meant less compromises in the components I have.

It's cool, I'm sure the manual is great, but I wanted an auto. Call me weird. I also LOVE my car. There is NO WAY I wanted another BMW. But, I know caddy can still improve the car.

M5eater
05-11-13, 05:10 PM
You also can't compare a fully optioned ATS Premium to a fully optioned S4.There are options on the S4 that are not available on the ATS.The base S4 is pretty well equiped to start with.I think you can buy a nicely equiped S4 for abot 53k.


There is nothing in the S4 that the ATS doesn't have a comparable part to, and infact, you *need* to fully option out the S4 to reach a lot of comparable equipment levels in the ATS Premium. There are only 3 options of note in the premium, the driver assist, the roof and cold weather package.

There are a plethora of option boxes you need to check off to reach the ATS in an S4.

I could go down item by item if you wish..

Or you could enlighten me as to which options the S4 has that the ATS does not.

ATSwannabe
05-11-13, 05:18 PM
Nothing luxurious about any 3 series.
It's blah and plain.
As far as s4 and stock 335 being far better. .3 or .04 . 0-60 is not a good judge it means nothing.
That 0-60 is due too 8 speed tranny and lying German manufacturers underating cars power wise

I've owned many cars over the years my Lexus cars were vastly superior in the luxury department.
I'm sick of hearing about heavy underpowered e46 older cars. The only one that was not underpowered was the M3.
330 was 14.5lbs per horsepower
My 2013 ATS IS 12.5lbs per horsepower
Just hate BMW fanboys.
It's not hard too make 3.0 T fast.
My 2001 IS300T MADE AROUND 750hp at the crank well over 600 thru the back wheels.

----------



You are crazy

No one is claiming that the 335 or S4 is a "better"car.Just saying that the engine & trans package is better than the ATS.They shift smoother & faster and the performance is considerly better.The 335 is almost a full second faster than the 3.6 in the Qtr mile and the S4 is more than a second quicker.If you think that the ATS is better in every aspect than a BMW I question who is the fanboy here.If you can't have a discussion on the pro's & con's of one model against another without resorting to sarcastic remarks I think maybe you are a little thin skinned.

Siren05
05-11-13, 06:05 PM
No one is claiming that the 335 or S4 is a "better"car.Just saying that the engine & trans package is better than the ATS.They shift smoother & faster and the performance is considerly better.The 335 is almost a full second faster than the 3.6 in the Qtr mile and the S4 is more than a second quicker.If you think that the ATS is better in every aspect than a BMW I question who is the fanboy here.If you can't have a discussion on the pro's & con's of one model against another without resorting to sarcastic remarks I think maybe you are a little thin skinned.

No mate. I don't drive a 3.6. I drive a 2.0T. I am a car fanatic! Not a fanboy I love performance vehicles of all colors.
Lets agree that forced induction 6 cylinder engines like the one in 335 and S4 are better than Naturally
Aspirated 6 cylinders.

Now wait and see what a purpose built turbo 6 from GM CAN DO...
The ATS V will have one.
NOTE THIS IS MY FIRST GM PRODUCT I OWN SEVERAL OTHER PERFORMANCE VEHICLES.NOT GM.
THEREFORE NOT REALLY A GM FANBOY MORE LIKE A RACECAR FANBOY.

Also I just wanted to point out 3.0T 6 cylinder engines have been producing Gobbs of power since the early 90s. They are not a BMW or Audi magic creation

Cheers

blue_skies
05-11-13, 11:00 PM
After reading most of the reviews of the ATS it appears the ideal vehicle would be an ATS chassis with a BMW 335 engine & transmission.If you look at the performance numbers the BMW is considerly faster in all aspects of acceleration and the ATS handles better than the BMW.The BMW also gets better gas mileage.I think Cadillac should have waited one more year and given the ATS an engine & transmission combination that is more competitive in this segment of the industry.

Reviewers have a perform a delicate dance between their constituency (readers), their suppliers (mfg) and the facts (weighted). Most are rather conservative, and will point out new features, then harp on others, and come into a weighted picture that most everyone will agree too (except may for fanboys).

I would read between the lines.

BMW has an 8-speed. This has pro's and con's. Major pro's are faster acceleration and better mileage. Major con, many shift-points, is not a con, since the new gearing boxes take virtually zero time to shift, so it goes unnoticed. Can Cadillac match the 8-speed? I am sure that the will - but in a V or Coupe dress.

Does it make a difference on the road? Not in my book. How many 5.3 second starts do you make in a day? And how many times is a BMW 335i trying to outrun you? It's about bragging rights, not owner's experience at some point. Besides, the 8-speed was an option in the 2013 BMW models - many were built without the 8-speed.

Even if Cadillac had another year, to work out the bugs in the CUE, add the 8-speed, put in a performance tune, we are still talking about one model in the line-up. The focus would shift to manual transmission and engine tuners. Plus, BMW would respond within a year for sure. Look what happened when the Jeep GC SRT-8 almost outran the Porsche Cayenne Turbo (for half price) - the Turbo became a dual-Turbo. Still, few of those models were actually sold, compare to the model lineup. Same for 335i and ATS 3.6L models.

Also, considerably faster is a misnomer. On-spec, the 335i scores significantly higher, mostly because of the 8-speed and higher octane tune. But if you look at lap-times, or handling comments from the reviewers, the 335i and ATS 3.6L are almost on par, with the nod even going to the ATS. That is quite impressive, and reduces the term 'considerably', well, considerably :)

And then - look at some reports - styling, seat comfort, amenities, (add 'brand history'), it gets all weighted in. The results would still come out the same as they are now.

And go spend another $10k or so, and both the 335i and ATS 3.6L will look like 'loser' cars (in a comparo)... :)

Fraggy
05-12-13, 01:00 AM
BMW has an 8-speed.

Does it make a difference on the road? Not in my book. How many 5.3 second starts do you make in a day? And how many times is a BMW 335i trying to outrun you? It's about bragging rights, not owner's experience at some point. Besides, the 8-speed was an option in the 2013 BMW models - many were built without the 8-speed.

The 8 vs 6 speed is not even close to the issue. The 7 year old 6-speed that debuted in the '07 335 is STILL significantly better than what caddy put in this car. I drove my old '09 335 (now my wife's) the other day and was shocked by the vigor and elegance of that drive train (engine and tranny).

Also the only optional bmw tranny that I'm aware of was the "sport" auto with even faster shifts, but all are 8-speeds.

ATSwannabe
05-12-13, 06:48 AM
No mate. I don't drive a 3.6. I drive a 2.0T. I am a car fanatic! Not a fanboy I love performance vehicles of all colors.
Lets agree that forced induction 6 cylinder engines like the one in 335 and S4 are better than Naturally
Aspirated 6 cylinders.

Now wait and see what a purpose built turbo 6 from GM CAN DO...
The ATS V will have one.
NOTE THIS IS MY FIRST GM PRODUCT I OWN SEVERAL OTHER PERFORMANCE VEHICLES.NOT GM.
THEREFORE NOT REALLY A GM FANBOY MORE LIKE A RACECAR FANBOY.

Also I just wanted to point out 3.0T 6 cylinder engines have been producing Gobbs of power since the early 90s. They are not a BMW or Audi magic creation

Cheers


I have owned every high performance Chevrolet & Pontiac made during the 1960's and early 70's,as well as Lincoln LSC's and Hemi Grand Cherokee in later years.so I am not brand specific.I was speaking of what is currently avilable in the ATS & the 335I,not what can be done to modify them.No matter how much you modify your car there is always someone willing to spend more money and go further in their quest for more power.As you can see by my earlier choices in cars I have been around for a while(73 years old).I have been drag racing on & off since the early 60's.I can tell you from experience that the high performance bug never goes away.

----------


The 8 vs 6 speed is not even close to the issue. The 7 year old 6-speed that debuted in the '07 335 is STILL significantly better than what caddy put in this car. I drove my old '09 335 (now my wife's) the other day and was shocked by the vigor and elegance of that drive train (engine and tranny).

Also the only optional bmw tranny that I'm aware of was the "sport" auto with even faster shifts, but all are 8-speeds.

I could not have said it better.The BMW trasmissions are more than 7 years old and still perform better than the ATS automatic.This is why I am so critical of the ATS automatic.

gohawks63
05-12-13, 08:38 AM
Reviewers have a perform a delicate dance between their constituency (readers), their suppliers (mfg) and the facts (weighted). Most are rather conservative, and will point out new features, then harp on others, and come into a weighted picture that most everyone will agree too (except may for fanboys).

I would read between the lines.

BMW has an 8-speed. This has pro's and con's. Major pro's are faster acceleration and better mileage. Major con, many shift-points, is not a con, since the new gearing boxes take virtually zero time to shift, so it goes unnoticed. Can Cadillac match the 8-speed? I am sure that the will - but in a V or Coupe dress.

Does it make a difference on the road? Not in my book. How many 5.3 second starts do you make in a day? And how many times is a BMW 335i trying to outrun you? It's about bragging rights, not owner's experience at some point. Besides, the 8-speed was an option in the 2013 BMW models - many were built without the 8-speed.

Even if Cadillac had another year, to work out the bugs in the CUE, add the 8-speed, put in a performance tune, we are still talking about one model in the line-up. The focus would shift to manual transmission and engine tuners. Plus, BMW would respond within a year for sure. Look what happened when the Jeep GC SRT-8 almost outran the Porsche Cayenne Turbo (for half price) - the Turbo became a dual-Turbo. Still, few of those models were actually sold, compare to the model lineup. Same for 335i and ATS 3.6L models.

Also, considerably faster is a misnomer. On-spec, the 335i scores significantly higher, mostly because of the 8-speed and higher octane tune. But if you look at lap-times, or handling comments from the reviewers, the 335i and ATS 3.6L are almost on par, with the nod even going to the ATS. That is quite impressive, and reduces the term 'considerably', well, considerably :)

And then - look at some reports - styling, seat comfort, amenities, (add 'brand history'), it gets all weighted in. The results would still come out the same as they are now.

And go spend another $10k or so, and both the 335i and ATS 3.6L will look like 'loser' cars (in a comparo)... :)

Good post. Our X5 has the same engine combo as a 335, albeit maybe tuned a little differently since they are different types of vehicles. For example I believe the top speed in the X5 is electronically limited to 130 mph. I suspect that is mainly due to the taller, H-rated tires on the X5.

I will say that the 8-speed coupled with the turbo 6 is butter smooth and a screamer. The X5 is our first ever BMW and I stepped into the ownership skeptical about the ownership, but I have come away feeling that the accolades are real. They truly are drivers cars. Even a taller wagon like the X5.

Long term reliability is another point for discussion I will leave for another thread except for a couple of points. BMW offers free maintenance for the first 50K miles like Cadillac, but their program is more comprehensive and that it covers everything. Even brakes. We bought ours as a CPO with 30K miles on it. It is under warranty through June 2016 or 100K miles. We have put 10K miles on her and have not had one dealer visit yet. Our first will be this week to have them look at the backup camera that is occasionally flashing a malfunction error on the display.

To give some perspective between my '12 CTS coupe and our '11 X5 Premium

X5
300hp 300 ft/lbs torque
Weight: 4,960

CTS AWD coupe
318hp 275 ft/lbs torque
Weight 4,096

In a drag race the X5 is much faster and pulls much harder than the CTS. The torque is available much sooner whereas you need to get the 3.6 spinning to get the power. I don't even feel the X5 shifting through the eight gears.

I know people will counter that by comparing a blown inline 6 to a naturally aspirated V6 is comparing apples and oranges, and I would normally agree with you but look at the weight disadvantage the X5 has over the CTS. It weighs nearly 900 lbs more, yet the X5 has 18 less HP and only 25 ft/lbs of torque to make up for those 900lbs.

I can only conclude that either BMW is very conservative in their numbers, to the point of under reporting, or they have really figured out how to get all that power to the pavement better than GM has.

Now I am not bashing my CTS, I love that car. It's been my first domestic purchase after 19 years of owning Acuras, and as I said the X5 is our first BMW SUV after 18 years of Pathfinders (2) and Toyota Landcruiser (2), so I am not a fan boy of either.

My only complaint about the X5 is the throttle tip-in. It is not smooth. Very abrupt (off and the ON). It is not turbo lag, but how the acceleration is programmed. It is a common complaint on the BMW boards. It took us a long time to try and learn how to work the accelerator pedal so as not to give all the passengers whiplash.

Just an objective perspective.

Siren05
05-12-13, 09:59 AM
X5=16.5lbs per hp
Cts = 12.5lbs per hp

I don't believe at its faster.

Power to weight ratios I believe agree?

gohawks63
05-12-13, 10:53 AM
X5=16.5lbs per hp
Cts = 12.5lbs per hp

I don't believe at its faster.

Power to weight ratios I believe agree?

You may not believe it, but I have the luxury to be able to drive both and I think the X5 is quicker. The only way I guess I could prove it is to have my wife drag race me. :)

We're also going on the premise that BMW is accurately stating their horsepower and torque numbers.

Let's put my perceptions aside for a minute. Depending on the source you will see the 0-60 times of the X5 as low as 6 seconds to as high as around 6.5.

I believe that the CTS is the same. I have seen numbers as low as 6.1 and as high as 6.5. I would guess that the lower numbers are for the RWD versions, although I heard the AWD penalty really only translates to about .1 of a second.

So let's call it a wash. The X5 has comparable acceleration times while it has less power for the additional 900lbs of weight it carries.

That to me translates to a more efficient use of power. What would happen if I started removing the rear seats of the X5 and looking for other ways of removing some of the 900lbs in the hope of bringing it's weight in line with the CTS?

Besides my wife divorcing me, the X5 would smoke the CTS. :)

thebigjimsho
05-12-13, 02:19 PM
You are all gullible.

The turbo 6 is a very underrated powerplant. Many have dynoed with numbers not far off the rated crank power. It's much closer to 330-340 hp...

Then there is the AWD of the X5.

So the X5 is a tiny bit quicker from 0-60, and if you understand accel dynamics at all, then it makes sense.

However, if you go from a roll, its the CTS.

Looking at C&D and their review of an X5 35i, it did 0-60 in 6.0. But, a street start of 5-60 was 7.4. Turbos off spool and no advantage of AWD makes a 1.4 sec difference between the two starts.

As for the ATS 3.6 coupe, it did a 0-60 of 6.4 seconds. A street start of 5-60? 6.5 seconds.

Now, if you guys want to talk about of what feels faster, an AWD car with gobs of low end torque will always feel fast off the line.

gohawks63
05-12-13, 04:40 PM
Now, if you guys want to talk about of what feels faster, an AWD car with gobs of low end torque will always feel fast off the line.

..and I think that's why I have the impressions I do. I think that the X5 "feels" faster because the torque is immediately available.

Siren05
05-12-13, 05:19 PM
Like my STI.we dynoed around 360 awtq. She hauls ass. I'd guesstimate around a 4.0 0-60 on a
Aggressive launch.
Around 450 tq at the crank and 400+ with awd on a car that weighs 3370 lbs.

It feels downright violent when I launch her.

ATSwannabe
05-12-13, 08:14 PM
X5=16.5lbs per hp
Cts = 12.5lbs per hp

I don't believe at its faster.

Power to weight ratios I believe agree?

The reason why the 3.0 turbo BMW performs better than its numbers(300 hp,300 torque)is because BMW chose small turbo's that give lots of hp & torque at lower rpm's and the boost tapers off at high rpm's which gives modest peak hp numbers.If you look at the specs for this engine you see that the 300 ft/pd torque is from 1200 to 5000 rpm.That is a very broad torque curve.Peak hp is a deceptive way of rating an engines capabilities.If you look at average hp & torque over a wide rpm range you will get better perfomance.Turbo charging is a good way to give good torque & hp numbers over a wide rpm range.BMW has decided its better to use modest size turbo's to reduce lag and provide excellent mid range power rather than use larger turbo's that would provide higher peak numbers.The dyno numbers I have seen on the 3.0 are about 310 to 320 hp.Somewhat underated but not enough to be considered grossly underated.

Pete7874
05-12-13, 10:43 PM
As for the ATS 3.6 coupe, it did a 0-60 of 6.4 seconds.
There is an ATS coupe?

gohawks63
05-12-13, 10:50 PM
There is an ATS coupe?

Assumed it was a typo and he meant CTS coupe.

ryannel2003
05-13-13, 01:08 AM
Interesting conversion on the E46 vs ATS. As the current owner of an E46 323i I can personally attest that the ATS in fact has similar sporting pretentions that were so great in the E46's. The handling and ride is quite similar and even the steering feels similarly weighted but there is no road feel at all which is due to the electric steering. There is good reason the E46 was the benchmark for the ATS chassis. It was the last BMW 3 to have that mechanical feel that is lacking in new cars.

The ATS has a great design, excellent interior and great chassis. My only issue with the cars is the powertrains aren't as well tuned as the BMW engines. I have to say that I would most likely get the BMW because the interior is more comfortable and I prefer the design in general but both cars are great.

MyfirstCad
05-13-13, 06:50 PM
Bavarian horses are bigger than Michigan horses apparently.

silver bullet
05-14-13, 11:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHE85kHxRw8 This pretty much says it all.

ryannel2003
05-14-13, 01:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHE85kHxRw8 This pretty much says it all.

Yes as far as the 335i vs ATS 3.6 goes the heavier 3.0 I6 engine of the BMW doesn't help it in the corners. However I haven't seen a comparison test yet where the ATS 2.0T beats the 328i. Having driven both the ATS engine doesn't sound as refined and isn't as smooth as the engine in the 328i.

As a pure sports sedan the Cadillac is a better car but as an all around sports sedan the BMW is a better car.

Siren05
05-14-13, 02:35 PM
Yes as far as the 335i vs ATS 3.6 goes the heavier 3.0 I6 engine of the BMW doesn't help it in the corners. However I haven't seen a comparison test yet where the ATS 2.0T beats the 328i. Having driven both the ATS engine doesn't sound as refined and isn't as smooth as the engine in the 328i.

As a pure sports sedan the Cadillac is a better car but as an all around sports sedan the BMW is a better car.

Do you think steering and chasis are different between 3.6 and 2.0T?

They are the same except 2.0 is lighter.
Same outcome better drivers car not as fast in a straight line

Pete7874
05-14-13, 02:36 PM
My main issue is lack of manual trans option with the V6 engine on the ATS. This in itself will probably cross ATS off my list when I start shopping around. I will still give the 3.6 Auto a try, but from what I've read, it's fairly old tech nowadays and the auto trans in the 335i is notably better. With that said, I have driven many different cars with auto trans and didn't like any of them, so I will most likely stick with manual, in which case ATS is not even an option as I don't want the 2.0T. The C350 isn't an option either for the same reason.

ryannel2003
05-14-13, 03:52 PM
Do you think steering and chasis are different between 3.6 and 2.0T?

They are the same except 2.0 is lighter.
Same outcome better drivers car not as fast in a straight line

I'm sure Cadillac did some suspension tuning to make up for the added weight of the 3.6 up front. BMW basically took the I6 and dropped it in the car without any added calibration to make up for the added weight. That's why most magazines prefer the 328i to the 335i. They are both great drivers cars but the ATS is the better one. The F30 is a better everyday car and I prefer the styling but I would be fine driving either. I think the next generation ATS will be the best car in its class on every measure.

----------


My main issue is lack of manual trans option with the V6 engine on the ATS. This in itself will probably cross ATS off my list when I start shopping around. I will still give the 3.6 Auto a try, but from what I've read, it's fairly old tech nowadays and the auto trans in the 335i is notably better. With that said, I have driven many different cars with auto trans and didn't like any of them, so I will most likely stick with manual, in which case ATS is not even an option as I don't want the 2.0T. The C350 isn't an option either for the same reason.

This is quite frustrating but from what I've read the manual in the ATS isn't great. However I felt the auto in the ATS was pretty good but yes it is quite old when the rest of the cars in the class have 8 speed autos (most of them anyway). The 8 speed in the 328i was excellent. Smooth, quick shifting and it was always in the right gear when needed. I'm testing driving a 335i in a month so I'll be able to compare how it drives versus the 3.6 ATS. However I did enjoy the V6 and I would take it over the 2.0T all day.

Siren05
05-14-13, 05:08 PM
A tuned 2.0 will walk on the 3.6

ryannel2003
05-14-13, 05:23 PM
Sure it will but it will never have the smoothness of the 3.6 either. I care more about smoothness than straight line power which is why I prefer BMW's Inline 6's to other motors. The new BMW 4 cylinder is smoother than the ATS's as well.

SLA
05-14-13, 09:03 PM
Sure it will but it will never have the smoothness of the 3.6 either.

That's not necessarily true. The stock 2.0 is tuned pretty rich from the factory. Lean it out a bit and it will be just as smooth.

flycaster
05-16-13, 07:47 AM
That's not necessarily true. The stock 2.0 is tuned pretty rich from the factory. Lean it out a bit and it will be just as smooth.

I have done a little bit of modding. Have never worked with an engine and probably won't, but would be interested to know what has to be done to "lean out" the engine. If it is reasonable, doesn't screw-up gas mileage and/or performance, and doesn't ruin the warranty (as I expect it wouldn't), I'd pay a mechanic to do it.

SLA
05-16-13, 08:43 AM
I have done a little bit of modding. Have never worked with an engine and probably won't, but would be interested to know what has to be done to "lean out" the engine. If it is reasonable, doesn't screw-up gas mileage and/or performance, and doesn't ruin the warranty (as I expect it wouldn't), I'd pay a mechanic to do it.

When I say lean it out, I am referring to leaning out the tune of the engine. Turbocharged engines always run a bit rich from the factory. Engineers need to leave power on the table to account for different grades of fuel, geographic locations, reliability, marketing (sometimes), and etc. You can buy one of the canned tunes that already exist. I have not tuned (and will not) tune my ATS, but I've done it on some of my other cars and it's very easy. It usually just involves plugging into the obd2 port, possibly connecting a sensor, and then loading the tune. You would not need a mechanic to do this. Visit the ATS Technical forum. There are a couple ongoing threads about tuning. Tuning will definitely boost performance and in many cases a simple tune can boost mpg a bit.

Will it void your warranty? It most definitely can void parts of it. Refer to the Magnusson-Moss Act. It simply states a company cannot void your entire warranty for a modification. For instance, if you tune your car and a strut starts to leak, they cannot deny you warranty work on the suspension because of the tune. They could however deny you any drive train coverage, which would include the engine, transmission, differential, axles, etc. The MMA also states that in order to deny you warranty coverage, they must prove the modification is what caused the failure. This is very easy for them to prove.

flycaster
05-16-13, 10:04 AM
Thanks for the info. I didn't realize that one had have a tune for this. I thought that to lean out involved some simple manipulation of the fuel/air mixture. Tuning being the case, I'll have to give it some more consideration. But, thanks anyway.

RippyPartsDept
05-16-13, 10:27 AM
in simple terms, one of the main things a tune does is manipulate the a/f ratio

donavo
05-16-13, 10:59 AM
in simple terms, one of the main things a tune does is manipulate the a/f ratio

and what would you say about the warranty part? the previous guy said things that would strike fear into the hearts of those who want to tune. how much does cadillac actually check to detect the tune?

RippyPartsDept
05-16-13, 11:54 AM
If you blow up motor they're probably going to check for a tune ... if you end up needing a fuel injector or O2 sensor or something like that they're probably not going to check

it's up to you to decide how honest with your dealer you want to be ...

----------

Also, as stated earlier the MMA protects you in that they have to prove the tune caused the failure ... if a part fails it is pretty unlikely that the tune caused the failure, but if there's engine damage then it gets a bit more complicated and if you try and fight it you could end up paying more in lawyers fees and court costs for the chance of proving that your tune didn't mess up your engine

morphius909
05-16-13, 02:17 PM
First I would liike to say hello to all.

I just purchased a Black ATS Lux edition 3.6.

My previous vehicle was a 2011 BMW 335Xi Special edition with the Turbo I-6, M Exhaust, M Wheels and N55 Factory Tuning, Carbon Fiber Interior, M Paint, etc. It was truly a special car.

Unfortunately it got totaled. Yes I had a funeral for it where tears were shed.

So on to the ATS. I've been in it for a few weeks.

My take so far:

In general, the ATS is a very nice touring car. Its nice to drive and ride in. Nice Tech. You feel comfortable. Secure. Nice seats. Nice looks.
The BMW is simply a rocket of a DRIVERS car. Simply put, the N55 Tuned Turbo engine planted your ass and made your heart skip when you pushed it, it cornered better but it was much more bumpier/stuff. Oh and it sounded unbelievable with the special Performance Exhaust from the factory. It is, and was always intended to be a DRIVERS vehicle, I can't stress this enough. Comfort and convenience for passengers was and is secondary. Personally, I have a difficult time comparing the Caddy to the BMW. They are simply very different Cars. Sorry I laugh at 328's and 323s so I won't comment on them!

If I want a great comfortable ride for me, partner and kids the Caddy is the way to go. If you want to experience A LOT of adrenaline the 335I SE was the way to go.

Thats my 30 second intro and review!

Pete7874
05-16-13, 02:38 PM
My previous vehicle was a 2011 BMW 335Xi
So that's E90. Apparently, in the new F30, handling and performance took a turn (pun) for the worse. It is blasted by most car mags as a step in the wrong direction, ie. a direction away from being a driver's car.

Quote from Car and Driver:
"We're convinced that the E90 would handily win a comparison test against the F30." In the April, 2012, issue they noted an increase in weight, versus the BMW's suggestion of a loss: "weight gain from our last E90 335i test car is 77 pounds, at least some of which must be from the new optional 19-inch wheels ($900) . . . ." Furthermore, acceleration suffered in comparison to the E90 as well, "A slower 5-to-60 time of 5.9 seconds—we expected mid-fives for that—also indicated that something may have been amiss."


Just curious, but what made you choose an ATS to replace your E90? Did you look at the new F30 and did not like it?

morphius909
05-16-13, 02:50 PM
So that's E90. Apparently, in the new F30, handling and performance took a turn (pun) for the worse. It is blasted by most car mags as a step in the wrong direction, ie. a direction away from being a driver's car.

Quote from Car and Driver:
"We're convinced that the E90 would handily win a comparison test against the F30." In the April, 2012, issue they noted an increase in weight, versus the BMW's suggestion of a loss: "weight gain from our last E90 335i test car is 77 pounds, at least some of which must be from the new optional 19-inch wheels ($900) . . . ." Furthermore, acceleration suffered in comparison to the E90 as well, "A slower 5-to-60 time of 5.9 seconds—we expected mid-fives for that—also indicated that something may have been amiss."


Just curious, but what made you choose an ATS to replace your E90? Did you look at the new F30 and did not like it?

Yeah its a hit and miss.

The reason I chose the ATS?

-Knew the Cadillac Manager so got a great deal
-I hate the new 3 series..I really do. Interior and Exterior. My plan in several years was to sell the E90 and get an M5 or M3. But I'm a bit off financially.
-ATS had very good reviews and for the cost/features was a good fit.

Do I miss my E90? EVERYDAY. Hard to explain unless you've driven/owned one that brought so much joy.

BUT..I really do like my ATS.

First world problems ;)

Siren05
05-16-13, 04:15 PM
Yeah its a hit and miss.

The reason I chose the ATS?

-Knew the Cadillac Manager so got a great deal
-I hate the new 3 series..I really do. Interior and Exterior. My plan in several years was to sell the E90 and get an M5 or M3. But I'm a bit off financially.
-ATS had very good reviews and for the cost/features was a good fit.

Do I miss my E90? EVERYDAY. Hard to explain unless you've driven/owned one that brought so much joy.

BUT..I really do like my ATS.

First world problems ;)

Glad you are here.

The 3.6 is the no touch engine it's fast and reliable

The 2.0t with a tune will out perform in performance hands down.
Pfadt has an upgraded turbo kit. New turbo inter cooler, downpipe and some other goodies making 450+
Hp.

I come from a Subaru background still owning and a fully built forged internal engine
Making a lot more juice than a 335 with a tune and bolt ons.
Nearly 70000 miles on 400+ hp 460tq.
Sub 4 second 0-60 and low 11s in a quarter mile.

Judging from your introduction IMO you should have chosen the forced induction engine. The LTG HAS
HUGE potential.

I really like 3.0T engines. I bought my wife the type R Xc60 T6 polestar tuned and it hauls ass too!

Cheers

thebigjimsho
05-16-13, 08:36 PM
CTS-V. End of story.

gohawks63
05-16-13, 11:08 PM
My wife's X5 is in for minor warranty work (back up camera is occasionally throwing a malfunction error) and they gave her a 328xi as a loaner.

A couple of random thoughts compared to my test drive of an ATS 2.0T Performance about a month or so ago. Keep in mind that ideally you would like to compare back to back since the ATS drive was a while ago, but the opportunity happened as it did, so you take the opportunities as they present themselves.

Acceleration, engine smoothness and transmission - In flat out acceleration the F30 felt faster (than the ATS) and smoother with no noticeable turbo lag. It felt almost as smooth as the 3.0T I6 in our X5. I was amazed at how quick it felt considering that it is an AWD model while the ATS I drove was only powering the rear wheels. The transmission is butter smooth. I REALLY don't like the stop/start feature. It just feels unnatural and there is a noticeable shudder when it restarts. With the exception of the start/stop feature I was amazed at how smooth the powertrain felt for a four cylinder engine. Fortunately it can be disabled or it might be a deal breaker to me if I were buying one. Advantage - BMW

Handling - Felt about the same. I really can't remember enough about the steering of the ATS, I want to say they were comparable. Interesting note though is that the steering in the 328 was MUCH LESS firm than in our X5 which is very stiff. The ATS that I drove didn't have MRC so I don't know how much of a difference that would have made. Advantage - Draw

Interior Dash layout - Given that we have a 2011 BMW X5, the interior of the F30 felt familiar to me, but I am not of fan of the new infotainment screens BMW is using. They look like (actually they are) fake pop up screens like a second gen Caddy's that is stuck permanently in the up position. I like the Cadillac dash layout better. Materials of the Caddy looked richer to me. Advantage - ATS

Interior seats and space - I like the look, feel of the leather dash materials and the seats of the Caddy better, but the BMW seemed to have more interior space, especially in the back seat when I had my seat pushed all the way back. Advantage - Draw, maybe a slight nod towards the ATS

Infotainment - since we have an X5, I am also familiar with the latest iDrive iteration. It is much improved over previous versions. With the controls on the console it makes it easy to scroll through options and settings without having to reach and take your eyes off the road (as much). I have no criticisms with CUE and I generally liked it for the limited time I got to play with it. Advantage - Very slight advantage to BMW, but I will admit that I may be biased because I have lived with iDrive for a while.

Exterior - I like the updated nose of the BMW, but the rest of the car is a bit boring looking to me. While I am not a fan of Cadillac softening their Art and Science theme, I still think that the ATS is a much more dynamic style compared to the 3 series. I also like the LED running lights on the up level trim ATS. Advantage - ATS

So overall there is a slight advantage to the ATS, but the BMW is still more of the driver's car, but not by much. It felt a little more tossable to me.

A few other thoughts about BMW in general. As has been said before, BMW is much more comprehensive in their "free" maintenance compared to Cadillac. Cadillac covers oil changes, filters and wipers, where as BMW takes it a step further including brake fluid flushes and brakes. Case in point, dealer called me today to inform me that they have to replace a cable to fix the camera, and that they also are replacing the front brake pads (the computer said they were soon due to be replaced) along with the rotors. Not sure why the rotors needed to be replaced since I knew the pads had material left and as a result the rotors weren't scored. Could be that BMW doesn't machine them. I didn't probe or ask any further questions since it's not costing me anything out of pocket. The computer was calling that the rear pads had about 3K miles on them. He was going to try and see if he could get authorization to replace them, but since they should call to be replaced well before the factory warranty expires, the SM suggested that we wait as it will work in my favor as the brakes if we replace them later.

I love my CTS coupe, but when the time comes for me to move on, I would seriously look at BMW along with the new CTS, although I am hoping for another coupe for Cadillac.

Now driving the 3.6L ATS might change some of my thoughts, but I haven't had a chance to drive one yet.

Anyway that's my $0.02.

Pete7874
05-16-13, 11:21 PM
Not sure why the rotors needed to be replaced since I knew the pads had material left and as a result the rotors weren't scored. Could be that BMW doesn't machine them.
That's right. BMW does not machine the rotors. Their policy is to replace the rotors every time the pads are replaced, as the rotors are fairly thin to begin with and the same rotors are unlikely to last through two sets of pads.

ryannel2003
05-17-13, 12:11 AM
They are simply very different Cars. Sorry I laugh at 328's and 323s so I won't comment on them!

And we certainly laugh at you when you thinking your so cool for spending $50k+ on a car that looks no different than a $35k 328i. Congrats! You're such a badass.

Fraggy
05-17-13, 01:30 AM
And we certainly laugh at you when you thinking your so cool for spending $50k+ on a car that looks no different than a $35k 328i. Congrats! You're such a badass.

Thank you!

Siren05
05-17-13, 07:43 AM
And we certainly laugh at you when you thinking your so cool for spending $50k+ on a car that looks no different than a $35k 328i. Congrats! You're such a badass.

My old 2001 is300 ripped your antique bmr a new one before I dropped a GTE block in her and giant snail in her.

I just hate BMW fanboys. You guys are the reason nobody likes BMW drivers.

----------


And we certainly laugh at you when you thinking your so cool for spending $50k+ on a car that looks no different than a $35k 328i. Congrats! You're such a badass.

Never judge a book by the cover.

A simple flash on a 335 and 400 WTQ. And 340whp
Around a 4.0 0-60.
You and fraggy can laugh all day looking at the rear end of the 335.

I'm not a fan of BMW at all. Just hate clowns

Fraggy
05-17-13, 10:31 AM
My old 2001 is300 ripped your antique bmr a new one before I dropped a GTE block in her and giant snail in her.

I just hate BMW fanboys. You guys are the reason nobody likes BMW drivers.

----------



Never judge a book by the cover.

A simple flash on a 335 and 400 WTQ. And 340whp
Around a 4.0 0-60.
You and fraggy can laugh all day looking at the rear end of the 335.

I'm not a fan of BMW at all. Just hate clowns

Yawn... I've had two 335s, one tuned, one not. The only thing I miss is the tyranny....

donavo
05-17-13, 11:17 AM
lets not start measuring dicks here guys.

thebigjimsho
05-17-13, 11:18 AM
Too late.

Siren05
05-17-13, 12:01 PM
lets not start measuring dicks here guys.

I wasn't measuring merely pointing out the potential of a 6 cylinder Turbo vs a 4 cylinder turbo...

Hohums
05-17-13, 12:47 PM
This discussion could (and likely will) go on forever, as Cadillac vs. BMW is a purely subjective topic. Let's be honest - the ATS and 328i/335i are all great cars. The ATS was build on the E46's spec sheet, so it goes without saying that the differences between the current 3-series and the ATS are fairly minor in real-world terms.

I felt that the BMW 2.0T delivered the power better than the Caddy 2.0T. I preferred the handling of the ATS however, and their interior is more my thing that BMW's minimalist approach. Same goes for exterior styling - not a fan of the current 3-series styling. But it's all subjective.

For me, it was less about how the car felt and more about how I felt driving the car. I live in Toronto's west end, a fairly affluent part of the world. BMW's are a dime a dozen in my neighbourhood. I took the 328i for a 30 minute test drive, and counted 11 other 328i's on the road during my short drive. BMW make an unbelievably good driver's car, which is sadly picked up by many who just want the badge. It's like the defacto choice for saying to your neighbours - "Hey look at me! I made it!". Getting a 3-series just felt like following the herd to me, and I felt like I was just joining onto one, big, Bavarian conga line when I drove it around.

In contrast, I've only seen 2 other ATS's on the road so far. Sure many more will appear through 2013, but at least for now it feels a bit different. Performance-wise... I know they're very similar, and couldn't care less on the minor differences to be brutally honest! I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I get to open the taps on the engine in my weekly drive. Most of it is spend in low-speed areas, or traffic. Caddy delivered a more feature-packed vehicle at a better price, so that's where my money went.

donavo
05-17-13, 12:54 PM
This discussion could (and likely will) go on forever, as Cadillac vs. BMW is a purely subjective topic. Let's be honest - the ATS and 328i/335i are all great cars. The ATS was build on the E46's spec sheet, so it goes without saying that the differences between the current 3-series and the ATS are fairly minor in real-world terms.

I felt that the BMW 2.0T delivered the power better than the Caddy 2.0T. I preferred the handling of the ATS however, and their interior is more my thing that BMW's minimalist approach. Same goes for exterior styling - not a fan of the current 3-series styling. But it's all subjective.

For me, it was less about how the car felt and more about how I felt driving the car. I live in Toronto's west end, a fairly affluent part of the world. BMW's are a dime a dozen in my neighbourhood. I took the 328i for a 30 minute test drive, and counted 11 other 328i's on the road during my short drive. BMW make an unbelievably good driver's car, which is sadly picked up by many who just want the badge. It's like the defacto choice for saying to your neighbours - "Hey look at me! I made it!". Getting a 3-series just felt like following the herd to me, and I felt like I was just joining onto one, big, Bavarian conga line when I drove it around.

In contrast, I've only seen 2 other ATS's on the road so far. Sure many more will appear through 2013, but at least for now it feels a bit different. Performance-wise... I know they're very similar, and couldn't care less on the minor differences to be brutally honest! I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I get to open the taps on the engine in my weekly drive. Most of it is spend in low-speed areas, or traffic. Caddy delivered a more feature-packed vehicle at a better price, so that's where my money went.

couldnt have put it better myself. im glad you reminded me of this. where i live, everyone pretty much has a bmw 3 or 5 series. or a c class. just another brick in the wall.....

flycaster
05-17-13, 04:24 PM
lets not start measuring dicks here guys.

Seconded!

----------


BMW's are a dime a dozen in my neighbourhood. I took the 328i for a 30 minute test drive, and counted 11 other 328i's on the road during my short drive. BMW make an unbelievably good driver's car, which is sadly picked up by many who just want the badge. It's like the defacto choice for saying to your neighbours - "Hey look at me! I made it!". Getting a 3-series just felt like following the herd to me, and I felt like I was just joining onto one, big, Bavarian conga line when I drove it around.

I couldn't agree with you more. Here in southeast FL is is the same story. Tons of 328's driven by tons of folks who have no appreciation for what they are driving. Just a status symbol. A reason for not getting another BMW-3 series.

In contrast, I've only seen 2 other ATS's on the road so far. Sure many more will appear through 2013, but at least for now it feels a bit different....Caddy delivered a more feature-packed vehicle at a better price, so that's where my money went.

Again in full agreement. Got my ATS (traded in my 2002 325, a much better handling car than any of the post 2006 BMW-3s or the present ATS...from a driver's car perspective, IMO) because of the comparator hype (ATS vs BMW-3) and it was several $K less than the 328.

I do like the luxury appeal of the ATS (although I just as well like the German interior styling approach) and I am getting used to its drive. But, lucky me, I still have the Z4...

gohawks63
05-17-13, 06:33 PM
lets not start measuring dicks here guys.

lol!!!!

----------


This discussion could (and likely will) go on forever, as Cadillac vs. BMW is a purely subjective topic. Let's be honest - the ATS and 328i/335i are all great cars. The ATS was build on the E46's spec sheet, so it goes without saying that the differences between the current 3-series and the ATS are fairly minor in real-world terms.

I felt that the BMW 2.0T delivered the power better than the Caddy 2.0T. I preferred the handling of the ATS however, and their interior is more my thing that BMW's minimalist approach. Same goes for exterior styling - not a fan of the current 3-series styling. But it's all subjective.

For me, it was less about how the car felt and more about how I felt driving the car. I live in Toronto's west end, a fairly affluent part of the world. BMW's are a dime a dozen in my neighbourhood. I took the 328i for a 30 minute test drive, and counted 11 other 328i's on the road during my short drive. BMW make an unbelievably good driver's car, which is sadly picked up by many who just want the badge. It's like the defacto choice for saying to your neighbours - "Hey look at me! I made it!". Getting a 3-series just felt like following the herd to me, and I felt like I was just joining onto one, big, Bavarian conga line when I drove it around.

In contrast, I've only seen 2 other ATS's on the road so far. Sure many more will appear through 2013, but at least for now it feels a bit different. Performance-wise... I know they're very similar, and couldn't care less on the minor differences to be brutally honest! I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I get to open the taps on the engine in my weekly drive. Most of it is spend in low-speed areas, or traffic. Caddy delivered a more feature-packed vehicle at a better price, so that's where my money went.

Well put. There is something to be said for being apart from the crowd.

M5eater
05-17-13, 08:22 PM
The ATS was build on the E46's spec sheet, so it goes without saying that the differences between the current 3-series and the ATS are fairly minor in real-world terms.
it's closeness to the 46 is why I love this car.

Not because it's grown up but because it's a brand new car that's smaller than it should be.

It reminds me so much of my B5 S4, right down to the useless rear seats. It copies a generation of 'just right' sizing in relation to power available. It's not too big (like the 3 series, A4 and c class have nearly tipped the scales in) but not too small.

juuust right.

I acutally checked today, it's nearly identical to my old 12 year old B5. I'm soooo amped.

morphius909
05-17-13, 08:25 PM
And we certainly laugh at you when you thinking your so cool for spending $50k+ on a car that looks no different than a $35k 328i. Congrats! You're such a badass.

Sorry but as M3 drivers laughed at us 335i owners, we laughed at 32x owners.

Get over it and pony up for a real BMW (i.e. Not a CHEAP 32X...those are for the Jones simply wanting a Bimmer in the driveway).

Jesus.

This is ATS vs 3 series. Both nice cars. Both with plus and minuses.

People that CLAIM that one car blew another one away rarely if EVER have evidence.

SLA
05-17-13, 09:25 PM
Lol what exactly is a "real BMW" these days? Would that be an M5 that uses the stereo to play engine sounds?

ryannel2003
05-17-13, 09:40 PM
Sorry but as M3 drivers laughed at us 335i owners, we laughed at 32x owners.

Get over it and pony up for a real BMW (i.e. Not a CHEAP 32X...those are for the Jones simply wanting a Bimmer in the driveway).

Jesus.

This is ATS vs 3 series. Both nice cars. Both with plus and minuses.

People that CLAIM that one car blew another one away rarely if EVER have evidence.

At the end of the day we're all driving BMW 3 Series so it's not really a big deal I just find it so hilarious that people brag about "well I look down at 325 owners and M3 owners look down at 335 owners" because they are all the same car. I'm assuming that the same could be said for ATS 3.6 owners could look down at ATS 2.0 owners as well. It doesn't really matter in the end.

----------


My old 2001 is300 ripped your antique bmr a new one before I dropped a GTE block in her and giant snail in her.

I just hate BMW fanboys. You guys are the reason nobody likes BMW drivers.

----------



Never judge a book by the cover.

A simple flash on a 335 and 400 WTQ. And 340whp
Around a 4.0 0-60.
You and fraggy can laugh all day looking at the rear end of the 335.

I'm not a fan of BMW at all. Just hate clowns

Oh wow I'm so hurt! It's also so funny that if you even looked at my info on this site that I am, in fact, not a BMW fanboy as my previous car was a Cadillac (a FWD Seville STS no less). I also find it funny that you are bragging about an IS300 beating my car as they have different size engines (330i vs. IS300 is better). What's even more hilarious is somebody bragging about a small sports sedan being fast to begin with. If I cared about 1/4 mile times I would buy a Camaro or Mustang instead.

thebigjimsho
05-18-13, 08:01 AM
Sorry but as M3 drivers laughed at us 335i owners, we laughed at 32x owners.

Get over it and pony up for a real BMW (i.e. Not a CHEAP 32X...those are for the Jones simply wanting a Bimmer in the driveway).

Jesus.

This is ATS vs 3 series. Both nice cars. Both with plus and minuses.

People that CLAIM that one car blew another one away rarely if EVER have evidence.

Are you back in the matrix, morphius?

E90-ATS
05-18-13, 10:02 AM
First I would liike to say hello to all.

I just purchased a Black ATS Lux edition 3.6.

My previous vehicle was a 2011 BMW 335Xi Special edition with the Turbo I-6, M Exhaust, M Wheels and N55 Factory Tuning, Carbon Fiber Interior, M Paint, etc. It was truly a special car.

Unfortunately it got totaled. Yes I had a funeral for it where tears were shed.

So on to the ATS. I've been in it for a few weeks.

My take so far:

In general, the ATS is a very nice touring car. Its nice to drive and ride in. Nice Tech. You feel comfortable. Secure. Nice seats. Nice looks.
The BMW is simply a rocket of a DRIVERS car. Simply put, the N55 Tuned Turbo engine planted your ass and made your heart skip when you pushed it, it cornered better but it was much more bumpier/stuff. Oh and it sounded unbelievable with the special Performance Exhaust from the factory. It is, and was always intended to be a DRIVERS vehicle, I can't stress this enough. Comfort and convenience for passengers was and is secondary. Personally, I have a difficult time comparing the Caddy to the BMW. They are simply very different Cars. Sorry I laugh at 328's and 323s so I won't comment on them!

If I want a great comfortable ride for me, partner and kids the Caddy is the way to go. If you want to experience A LOT of adrenaline the 335I SE was the way to go.

Thats my 30 second intro and review!

I am sorry but I can't disagree more, specially in reference to your 328/323 comment. I have significant experience with a E90 N55 335Xi and E90 328i with a Sport Package (different suspension setups between the two). While the 335 is noticeably quicker in a straight line, the 328 Sport Pack was without a doubt a better driver car than the 335Xi. What the 328 lacked in power it more than made up around curves. The 328 was noticeably lighter around the corners and handled much better. There was better feedback (RWD vs AWD) and overall balance in the 328. The 328 also felt like it had sharper and more responsive brakes (like due to weight difference between the two). To me the Xi system is more about traction/safety rather than performance.

M5eater
05-18-13, 10:51 AM
I am sorry but I can't disagree more, specially in reference to your 328/323 comment. I have significant experience with a E90 N55 335Xi and E90 328i with a Sport Package (different suspension setups between the two). While the 335 is noticeably quicker in a straight line, the 328 Sport Pack was without a doubt a better driver car than the 335Xi. What the 328 lacked in power it more than made up around curves. The 328 was noticeably lighter around the corners and handled much better. There was better feedback (RWD vs AWD) and overall balance in the 328. The 328 also felt like it had sharper and more responsive brakes (like due to weight difference between the two). To me the Xi system is more about traction/safety rather than performance.

Agreed. The simple facts are, there are 10 325/8/30's out at the local autocross for every M3 or 335i that show up.

ATSwannabe
05-18-13, 12:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHE85kHxRw8 This pretty much says it all.

I didn't see this video until it was posted here,but I opened this thread with the exact same opinion as the youtube guy.The best car would be an ATS with the BMW 3.0 turbo and 8 speed trans.This is why I think cadillac should have waited another year with the ATS and made a ATS Vsport with 8 speed avalable in the Premium model and not just available as a ATSV.Most people who have driven the BMW & the Cadillac ATS agree that the BMW 328I has a better powertrain than the ATS 2.0,and the BMW 335I has a better powertrain than the ATS 3.6.The 335I is six years old and even with the older 6 speed trans it is better than the ATS 3.6.The 3.6 doesn't quite match up well with the BMW 3.0(no turbo) but that was Cadillacs choice.