: IAT and custom intake pipes



kj217
05-05-13, 03:28 AM
as you see in the attached pics of my SS custom intake pipe,,

if i kept the MAF exactly in place,, what is the impact of extending the pipe for the filter to go all the way down to fog lamp area for cold air?

i have removed hood weatherstripping and the rubber on top of front bumper for cold air but i still can't have the difference between IAT and ambient lower than 35F degrees,,

any hints?

matt116
05-05-13, 07:26 PM
Ben at weapon x has access to ones that go almost to the ground to pick up the cold air.

Ross L
05-06-13, 12:30 AM
at what speed at you monitoring difference between ambient temp and IAT? What happens at steady speed of say 55mph?

kj217
05-06-13, 01:39 AM
at what speed at you monitoring difference between ambient temp and IAT? What happens at steady speed of say 55mph?
if its 86F outside running steady @ 60mph IAT can easily read as high as 120F or even higher,, in traffic it goes insanely high around 150F,,

Naf
05-06-13, 02:51 AM
You should get a Meth injection kit for your setup and take advantage of the cooler IAT...Get the Snow MAX MPG kit so you can cool your IAT from low rpm through to WOT

kj217
05-06-13, 03:37 AM
You should get a Meth injection kit for your setup and take advantage of the cooler IAT...Get the Snow MAX MPG kit so you can cool your IAT from low rpm through to WOT
will this work with TS blowers?
you can't inject meth/water into intake before the blower,,

V locity
05-07-13, 12:11 AM
I have the Alky kit for the V. Pre rotor injection, 100% meth.

Works like a charm :)

CJCTSV
05-07-13, 01:19 AM
My bet is that the SS pipe has a lot to do with your higher iat's.

The metal soaks up the heat. Try wrapping it in something.. fire resistant insulation in a sleeve? Or buy a cf or plastic pipe.

Home depot pvc mod? :p

kj217
05-07-13, 01:55 AM
I have the Alky kit for the V. Pre rotor injection, 100% meth.

Works like a charm :)
i heard that meth can consume rotors coating and then reduce blowing efficiency,,
myth on meth?

Naf
05-07-13, 03:51 AM
A report copied from FTL Racing

Methanol/Water Injection - Chemical Intercooling

Methanol/water injection makes power by lowering intake temperatures thus increasing intake charge density and
increasing octane a little (re: methanol) thus reducing knock/detonation allowing your combustion to do work for
you. If you don?t have [a lot of] knock it reduces power as it displaces air and fuel.

Methanol/water injection is better than water injection for two reasons:

a) The alcohol evaporates quicker than water and lowers intake temperatures sooner. It can actually lower
temperatures in a NA car in the intake manifold prior to combustion.

b) Methanol is a high-octane fuel like ethanol and this bumps your fuels octane (just like an ethanol blend fuel).
Further because it is a fuel the effect of displacing the air and fuel into the combustion chamber is reduced.
Unfortunately again like ethanol it only has about 60% the power of petrol and thus cannot make up the difference
it displaces let alone it and the water.

An annoyance for me with methanol/water injection is the need to refill the methonal/water tank. You could put a
larger tank in your car, but then you are talking more weight. I've heard of people using 8 gallon tanks so refills
are nearly monthly, but this translates into an extra 80lbs in your car. Definately not insignificant.

Methanol/water injection does not inject usable air like nitrous into your car?s engine. The oxygen in Methanol
is used in its combustion and is not freed up (disassociated) to burn like nitrous. The oxygen in the water also
does not separate at evaporation. Hydrogen and oxygen disassociates at tremendous temperatures (at 2000 C only 1%
of water is disassociated into Hydrogen and oxygen). Oxygen in nitrous on the other hand completely
disassociates at about 1300c.

An interesting fact about methanol is that it is corrosive to aluminum. I haven?t heard about any problems with this,
but I also haven?t heard of my imports using it long term. In particular I?d be concerned about my intake manifold
and possibly the head. The head is not likely to be a problem because combustion takes care of the methanol, but
the intake system would certainly be a long-term concern for me.

This all adds up to methanol injection being a band-aid solution when you are pushing your motor beyond its efficiency
range and knock is an issue. It can make a huge difference if you are boosting out of your efficiency range and your
intercooler cannot lower the intake temperatures enough to reduce detonation. It can also be beneficial on very hot
days where [again] you have detonation issues. If on the other hand you are running efficiency it?ll reduce your power.

Jackson Racing Supercharger Recommendations

In the case of an EATON blower it can make a lot of sense to run methanol/water injection if an intercooler is not
available and you are pushing high boost (above 8 psi). EATON blowers have relatively lower adbiabaitc efficiencies
and thus above 8 psi the intake temperatures are very high (usually 180f/82c or higher). This cause detonaton issues
and intercooling is VERY helpful. In particular I?d suggest running methanol/water injection on any H22 or D series
motor making over 8 psi. On B series motors I?d strongly suggest the LHT intercooled intake manifold.

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Personally i will be using it for my ambient temps go well north of 100F...

I will use the MAX MPG in my caddy, but will use the cooling mist for my tahoe since it has AFM...

Would love to copy the Snow MAX MPG with my cooling mist, but it has a lot more parts to it to do the same task...

HUGN*RDS
05-07-13, 10:26 AM
I would suggest changing the coolant mix in your intercooler system for a quick and noticible gain >> mine looked like a 50/50 mix when I drained it (probably factory), then I refilled with ~85% distilled water and remaining ~15% was a mix of redline water wetter (like royal purple ice) and dex-cool.

I wanted to get an extra storage reservoir for the IC system but figured I would make one change at a time to see individual improvements. I didn't exactly record the previous temperature values for IAT2 but I can tell you that the IAT2 temperature doesn't rise as quickly with back-to-back WOT runs as it used to. The temps I am seeing (this is my only cooling mod beside D3 "CAI") are now usually under 105* no matter what, and the climiate is becomming summer here too. I think it helped a considerable amount.

BlownV
05-07-13, 11:37 AM
As stated in other posts, please be careful with running 100% meth injection. Methanol is extremely flammable. A small leak in your system and you can burn your car to the ground. I know that most of the injection companies, including SNOW, recommend running at least 25% water to reduce the chance of a fire. I have run meth injection in the past and typically used a 70/30 mix without any real performance losses as compared to 100% methanol. Keep in mind that the water in the mix also increases the effective octane rating of your fuel...helping to reduce detonation as well. You can experiment with your mix, but if this is a daily driven car then I would be very hesitant to run 100% meth.

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Direct from Snow's site:

9. What ratio of water/methanol is recommended?
• A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, excellent detonation control, and safety.

• Ratios of anywhere from 30% to 50% methanol work well and deliver excellent octane gains and cooling.


10. Can I use pure methanol?
While all components of Snow Performance systems are designed to be able to handle pure methanol, it is not recommended for a number of reasons.

• Safety: Pure methanol is easy to ignite witha low 140F degree flash-point and burns with an invisible flame.
• Performance: Water absorbs almost twice as much heat as methanol in the intake and inside the combustion chamber. Water cannot be flash-ignited, so has what is almost an infinite octane number. In the government studies for WWII piston-powered aircraft, 50/50 water-methanol was found to be the best fluid to use for auxiliary fluid injection.

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Direct from Snow's site:

9. What ratio of water/methanol is recommended?
A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, excellent detonation control, and safety.

Ratios of anywhere from 30% to 50% methanol work well and deliver excellent octane gains and cooling.


10. Can I use pure methanol?
While all components of Snow Performance systems are designed to be able to handle pure methanol, it is not recommended for a number of reasons.

Safety: Pure methanol is easy to ignite witha low 140F degree flash-point and burns with an invisible flame.
Performance: Water absorbs almost twice as much heat as methanol in the intake and inside the combustion chamber. Water cannot be flash-ignited, so has what is almost an infinite octane number. In the government studies for WWII piston-powered aircraft, 50/50 water-methanol was found to be the best fluid to use for auxiliary fluid injection.

Naf
05-08-13, 01:48 AM
Meth is for power water is for cooling.

I would run "Ace" Windshield Washer Fluid -20f for its 35% meth and 65% water.

More water more cooling, and for your blower, you would just have to add the injectors AFTER the MAF, again, getting the MPG MAX kit is the best for you in light cruising mode with a nice power option, and the fact it takes your injectors as a reference gives you the added bonus of a simple plug and play...Light nozzle turns on at x% and power kicks in at y%

V locity
05-09-13, 09:23 PM
i heard that meth can consume rotors coating and then reduce blowing efficiency,,
myth on meth?

My experience, which is limited, says myth. My mods, including 100% pre rotor injection are going on 12-13000 miles. It is my DD, so it gets used regularly. Haven't had an issue with, well "anything" since mods were done. Knock knock knock... It's my understanding the methanol turns to vapor and cools the rotors. And with 18lbs of boost on my gal, any heat reduction is a good thing.

I will say this. One of the experienced shops I interviewed for the work on my V had experience with meth/water mix corrosion & was very anti meth now. So, I have a buddy with a V that had the same system I now have on his car for about 30,000 miles & voiced the concerns of the other shop. He offered to take his car up to his tuner & have them disassemble the intake to see if there was any corrosion going on in the intake/TB/snout/blower. I took him up on that offer. What we found was a pristine inner core... No evidence of any corrosion.

Sooo, I stuck with the 100% meth rather than the mix with water & the possibility that that mix was the reason for the corrosion. Plus, I got another 25rw out of the deal. ;)

Havasusteve
05-10-13, 01:11 AM
My experience, which is limited, says myth. My mods, including 100% pre rotor injection are going on 12-13000 miles. It is my DD, so it gets used regularly. Haven't had an issue with, well "anything" since mods were done. Knock knock knock... It's my understanding the methanol turns to vapor and cools the rotors. And with 18lbs of boost on my gal, any heat reduction is a good thing.

I will say this. One of the experienced shops I interviewed for the work on my V had experience with meth corrosion & was very anti meth now. So, I have a buddy with a V that had the same system I now have on his car for about 30,000 miles & voiced the concerns of the other shop. He offered to take his car up to his tuner & have them disassemble the intake to see if there was any corrosion going on in the intake/TB/snout/blower. I took him up on that offer. What we found was a pristine inner core... No evidence of any corrosion.

Sooo, I stuck with the 100% meth rather than the mix with water & the possibility that that mix was the reason for the corrosion. Plus, I got another 25rw out of the deal. ;)

Complete agreement with Keith. I have owned/driven 4 vehicles which included 1 boat running 100% methanol. In the cars, I ran/run pre and post boost methanol injection. My previous SC'd meth injected M5 has over 15,000 miles on it and runs strong as does my current M5 with approx. the same mileage. I pulled my CTS V SC after 6,000 miles and observed the blower ports, vanes and hat to be pristine, with zero Teflon being removed from the vanes. That is also running at the time, 14+psi.

1. Yes, 100% meth is very flammable. That's why I don't store it in a plastic container/windshield washer reservoir in the engine compartment.
2. It is corrosive to aluminum, if in its liquid form you soak the aluminum parts in it... Dependent on the system and nozzle size(s) you injecting it on boost @ 165psi through .3mm-1-2mm nozzles. Its chemical properties dictate that it WANTS to vaporize when exposed to air. With proper nozzle placement, it does just that.
3. Water should never be used on a pre-SC injection system due to water never fully vaporizing. It will always be in droplet form and will over time cause damage to the impellor/vanes due to implosion.
4. In hotter climates, methanol will prevent loss of power due the ECU NOT pulling timing at 140 degrees IAT2 and timing can actually be added into the tune resulting in more HP. Why, because even though it doesn't have an octane rating, depending on your school, it equals approx. 116-118 octane.

Lastly boyz..., remember that meth isn't injected constantly, only under boost and you and/or your tuner determine when that is. Mine has been set to come on at roughly 5psi/23% IDC.

Flame suit dawned :)