: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?



flycaster
05-04-13, 09:49 PM
I have already posted how the car's rear end slides out when taking normal corner turns on a wet road. And, surprisingly, there haven't been any response from the Cadillac net monitors, nor anyone else. Well, let me make my case again and hopefully I'll get some guidance.

It's my wife's car, but she's been away and I've now had a chance to spend a fair amount of time behind the wheel. Yesterday, the roads were wet from quite a bit of rain. Driving on a wet road after the rains had passed, the car definitely slide out on turns. The fronts hold, but the rears slide out. Today, all road were dry and the car wonderfully hugged the turns. Is it the car or is it the tires? In any event, considering the amount of rain we get in SoFL, this car is a disaster waiting to happen and I am very, very fearful of letting my wife drive on wet roads.

Hopefully Cadillac will see this post (title meant to draw their attention) and comment.

kmb32687
05-04-13, 11:31 PM
Does your car have RWD or AWD? If it's RWD, I believe it's part of LSD that causing the rear end slides out. LSD usually lock up only when you turn and press gas at the same time.

I wouldn't worry about it. Just don't turn off the traction or traction control system.

jamboarder
05-04-13, 11:54 PM
I have already posted how the car's rear end slides out when taking normal corner turns on a wet road. And, surprisingly, there haven't been any response from the Cadillac net monitors, nor anyone else. Well, let me make my case again and hopefully I'll get some guidance.

...

Hopefully Cadillac will see this post (title meant to draw their attention) and comment.

Instead of waiting for Cadillac reps to show up serendipitously on an Internet forum, why on earth don't you talk to the people who you paid good money for ownership and warranty support - your Cadillac dealership?

Hoosier Daddy
05-05-13, 12:18 AM
Instead of waiting for Cadillac reps to show up serendipitously on an Internet forum, why on earth don't you talk to the people who you paid good money for ownership and warranty support - your Cadillac dealership?
Yes. You can't expect someone to figure out what the problem is based on an internet post. And I haven't heard anything that would rule out the driver being the problem. I'm not saying that's it; I'm saying there is nothing to say it isn't. You may know its not the driver, but how can anyone else know that based on words on the internet? Procedures exist for a reason. Report it to the dealer. If you don't like what they do, then contact Cadillac Customer Service. And if you think its unsafe, you should report it to the NHTSA: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/.

flycaster
05-05-13, 08:28 AM
Usually, before I get repairs or or have a problem, I like to see if there is anyone else out there that is having the same problem. I like to be prepared before I go to the dealer or repair guy.

KMB might have a point. Even though I'm not "barreling" through the turn, I do hit the gas slightly as I am coming out of the turn. After your telling me that the traction control (I don't have LSD, but do have TCS) might lock up as I come out of the turn (giving a little gas), I have the feeling that if I were to keep constant speed through the turn, the the car might not slide out. Or, maybe turn TC off in wet weather??? I've got RWD and as far as I know, I haven't turned off the traction controls. Road will soon be wet again and I'll be able to test this out.

jamboarder
05-05-13, 12:30 PM
Umm... So let me get this straight.

You declare that your car is "dangerous to drive", you're surprised there hasn't been a response from a Cadillac rep that you expected would have stumbled into your posts on an internet forum by now, yet you choose to continue to wait for a Cadillac rep to stumble into your posts on said internet forum, and you choose to forego taking your dangerous-to-drive car to your Cadillac dealership because you want to be "prepared" with something from said internet forum.

Seriously?!

Let me help you out. No one has had their "car's rear end slide out when taking normal corner turns on a wet road". Now take your dangerous-to-drive car to your Cadillac dealership or, better yet, use your Cadillac road side assistance and have your dangerous-to-drive car towed to your Cadillac dealership.

wongluk
05-05-13, 01:00 PM
Not sure if anything wrong with your car but Do people know how to properly drive a rwd car???

ATS is suppose to be responsive to driver's input and exciting to drive...it is called oversteer!

flycaster
05-05-13, 01:19 PM
Not sure if anything wrong with your car but Do people know how to properly drive a rwd car???

ATS is suppose to be responsive to driver's input and exciting to drive...it is called oversteer!

For the last 11 years I have been driving a BMW 2002 325i and a BMW Z4 (kept the Z4, thank goodness as none of the newer cars handle like these do). Both are rear wheel drives, I know about oversteer and understeer. I am not a hazardous driver. I know when a car holds the road and I know when it slips. My ATS rear slips when the road is wet...doesn't have to be raining, just a wet road.

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...And if you think its unsafe, you should report it to the NHTSA: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/.

I don't think it is the car, per se. It could be the tires and/or how I come out of the turn. I do not speed out of the turn, just a normal acceleration... I'm not looking to dis anyone, just want a problem to be solved. You know, there will always be problems with just about anything. What is important is how these problems are solved.

jamboarder
05-05-13, 02:09 PM
... It could be the tires and/or how I come out of the turn. I do not speed out of the turn, just a normal acceleration... I'm not looking to dis anyone, just want a problem to be solved. You know, there will always be problems with just about anything. What is important is how these problems are solved.

If you want a dangerous-to-drive car problem solved, take it to your Cadillac dealership. If it truly is important to you how these problems are solved, know that the dealership is where dangerous-to-drive car problems are solved. No amount of online banter on an internet forum will solve a problem that, by your own measure, makes your vehicle "dangerous to drive". It doesn't matter if anyone else is experiencing it (no one is). Just get your vehicle to a dealership if you truly think your car is dangerous to drive.

If it's not clear what I'm hinting at yet, get your dangerous-to-drive car to the Cadillac dealership.

Cadillac Cust Svc
05-05-13, 03:31 PM
I have already posted how the car's rear end slides out when taking normal corner turns on a wet road. And, surprisingly, there haven't been any response from the Cadillac net monitors, nor anyone else. Well, let me make my case again and hopefully I'll get some guidance.

It's my wife's car, but she's been away and I've now had a chance to spend a fair amount of time behind the wheel. Yesterday, the roads were wet from quite a bit of rain. Driving on a wet road after the rains had passed, the car definitely slide out on turns. The fronts hold, but the rears slide out. Today, all road were dry and the car wonderfully hugged the turns. Is it the car or is it the tires? In any event, considering the amount of rain we get in SoFL, this car is a disaster waiting to happen and I am very, very fearful of letting my wife drive on wet roads.

Hopefully Cadillac will see this post (title meant to draw their attention) and comment.

Hello flycaster,

I have read your post and looked through this forum thread. I am sorry you feel that your vehicle is unsafe to drive in wet conditions. I am customer assistance, here to document your concerns and connect you with the right people who can provide further assistance. I cannot give you technical advice or explain why you are experiencing this issue. With this being said, I do recommend taking your vehicle into the dealership and discussing your concerns with them. We rely on the dealerships to provide excellent service and use their technical expertise for our customer's. Please let us know if we can help you with anything else.

Sincerely,

Laura M.
Cadillac Customer Service

flycaster
05-05-13, 03:32 PM
All good advice, Jamboarder. However, I am well aware of all that you suggested, but I'm addicted to the forums. I'll be at the dealer this week and have them take a look, or at least explain what's happening. Thanks for your help.

amunderdog
05-05-13, 03:53 PM
Do not understand all the thrashing about here.
They are building Cadillacs for different reasons these days.
http://www.consumerguide.com/cadillac/ats/2013/trim/4dr-sdn-2-0l-luxury-rwd/specs/
Wide tires - horsepower - rear wheel drive - reduced weight - etc.
StabiliTrak, vehicle stability enhancement system is supposed to make the vehicle managable.
Like others posted. Insure the vehicle is functioning correctly. If that is ok look for the best wet weather tire you can afford. If that fails wait for inclimate weather and test drive an AWD version to see if that helps.
Oh by the way they are not making roads like the used to ether. Seems they prefer Black greasy roads these days (add rain and dark they just disapear).

kmb32687
05-05-13, 07:44 PM
I took the car to AutoX today. I had a lot of fun. Anyways, I was trying to see if I can try make it like "drift", it's hard to do that. If you press in half way gas, you might feel the slide little bit but it won't go spin around unless if you floor it. I noticed the tires are crappy. No grips at all. Good rain tires probably will help little but not a lot. Unless if you get sticky race tires. Lol

Remember, StabiliTrak will prevent the car to spin out. That's why I said I wouldn't worry about it.

flycaster
05-06-13, 07:21 AM
Interesting report, KMB, and glad you did it. On dry roads, no problem with the rear end sticking well. How about giving it a try on a wet road? Don't hve to track it, just take a regular corner turn and accelerate a little out of the turm...what happens? I'm also thinking that if one takes the "wet" thurn at constant speed, no slippage will occur.

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Hello flycaster,

I have read your post and looked through this forum thread. I am sorry you feel that your vehicle is unsafe to drive in wet conditions. I am customer assistance, here to document your concerns and connect you with the right people who can provide further assistance. I cannot give you technical advice or explain why you are experiencing this issue. With this being said, I do recommend taking your vehicle into the dealership and discussing your concerns with them. We rely on the dealerships to provide excellent service and use their technical expertise for our customer's. Please let us know if we can help you with anything else.

Sincerely,

Laura M.
Cadillac Customer Service

As long as this wet road-rear end slippage problem is duly noted by Cadillac. I'll be into the dealer next week and will have this checked out.

bravnik
05-06-13, 11:12 AM
It's probably the runflats that's the issue. They are known to handle like crap and ride rough. I can't wait to get rid of mine.

M5eater
05-06-13, 11:59 AM
It's probably the runflats that's the issue. They are known to handle like crap and ride rough. I can't wait to get rid of mine.
While they are generally horrible, I found myself taking descending gradient off ramps at higher than posted speeds in a 3.6, in the rain, without issue.

The OP has presented a very general and vague situation of the rear end stepping out.

If you're going 20mph over the limit through a turn in pouring rain with your foot on the gas, yeah, you're probably going to get a bit tail happy.

If however you're doing 5 under there's something not right there, you really shouldn't have an issue, even with the crap-tastic run flats. In such a case, I would say check tire pressure, tread depth and TCS operation @ the dealer.

jamboarder
05-06-13, 02:04 PM
No run-flats aren't the issue. This is getting preposterous.


While they are generally horrible, I found myself taking descending gradient off ramps at higher than posted speeds in a 3.6, in the rain, without issue.

The OP has presented a very general and vague situation of the rear end stepping out.

That's the problem here isn't it: Vague assertions about the car doing something you wouldn't expect in any production vehicle from the last 40 years. The idea that the ATS's rear end is sliding out when cornering at normal speeds in wet conditions is, I'm sorry, ridiculous. There are no normal conditions under which that occurs. None. No one is experiencing this. No one.

Hey hey, my car is dangerous to drive: the right rear wheel falls off when I drive over a speed bump at normal speeds. Anyone else experiencing that?

What's worth discussing here? It ain't normal. There is no ATS "wet road-rear end slippage problem" for Cadillac to take note of and I'll happily eat my words if there is.

ewired
05-06-13, 03:01 PM
As long as this wet road-rear end slippage problem is duly noted by Cadillac. I'll be into the dealer next week and will have this checked out.

Problem??? Are you for real? SLOWDOWN
Problem solved. Cars aren't dangerous, people are.

thebigjimsho
05-06-13, 03:36 PM
Poor OP...

flycaster
05-06-13, 03:53 PM
...If you're going 20mph over the limit through a turn in pouring rain with your foot on the gas, yeah, you're probably going to get a bit tail happy.

If however you're doing 5 under there's something not right there, you really shouldn't have an issue, even with the crap-tastic run flats. In such a case, I would say check tire pressure, tread depth and TCS operation @ the dealer.

Although I don't believe that I presented a "general and vague situation," you are right, I shouldn't have any issues. Slipping occurs on turns when raining, and when the road just is wet. I don't take intersection turns at higher than posted speeds (of course highway on ramp speeds are a different matter). Tire pressure should be fine even though I've adjusted the psi to 37psi rears and 35psi fronts. Nonetheless, in the interest of fairness, the next time the roads are wet I will run two tests: 1) Take the turn at a constant speed, without slightly (lightly) accelerating out of it, 2) Drop the psi's to 35/32 rear/front and then try the turns on a wet road at constant speed and then with slight acceleration.

I have felt this type of slipping with my beloved 325 (traction control on), but not on my Z4??? Could be the tires (probably not as others haven't report this issue and my Z4 had different tires than the 325). It could be the way I take the turns and we'll soon find out...when the next rain comes, which should be in the next few days.

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No run-flats aren't the issue. This is getting preposterous.



That's the problem here isn't it: Vague assertions about the car doing something you wouldn't expect in any production vehicle from the last 40 years. The idea that the ATS's rear end is sliding out when cornering at normal speeds in wet conditions is, I'm sorry, ridiculous. There are no normal conditions under which that occurs. None. No one is experiencing this. No one.

Hey hey, my car is dangerous to drive: the right rear wheel falls off when I drive over a speed bump at normal speeds. Anyone else experiencing that?

What's worth discussing here? It ain't normal. There is no ATS "wet road-rear end slippage problem" for Cadillac to take note of and I'll happily eat my words if there is.

First, let me suggest that if your tire falls off, maybe a little crazy glue would help the next time you go over a speed bump.

Anyway, guys, I have no idea why you think I'm being vague with my description of this issue? I'm not a speeder. I don't barrel through turns. I know how it feels when a car slips and when it holds the road. The car hugs the road when the road is dry, but rear end slips when wet (been duly noted many times). As stated before, if I don't get to the dealer first before the next rain, I will try going through the intersection turns without lightly accelerating coming out of the turn (viz., take the turn at constant speed).

jamboarder
05-06-13, 04:43 PM
I have felt this type of slipping with my beloved 325(traction control on)

Sooo this happens with your 325 too huh? Traction control on too huh? Fascinating. Yeah.... See, this doesn't even happen with a Camry, or a 1981 Isuzu Impulse.

Unless the 2013 ATS shares a "dangerous" safety flaw with the BMW 325 that has somehow gone unnoticed by the driving public and regulators for years, there are only two reasonable conclusions:
1. There is nothing "normal" about your driving, OR
2. What you think is the rear end sliding out isn't the rear end sliding out

jph
05-06-13, 04:53 PM
either there is something horribly broken in the suspension or differential on your ATS.
or, you are driving beyong the cars's or drivers capabilities for the given road conditions.

option one, take it to your dealership ASAP.
option two, adjust your driving style.


J.

flycaster
05-06-13, 09:18 PM
1. There is nothing "normal" about your driving, OR
2. What you think is the rear end sliding out isn't the rear end sliding out

1. Nothing wrong with my driving.
2. Well, let's say I'm making a left-hand turn and the rear end slips out to the right while the front tracks as it should, AND I'm well within the speed limit for this turn...What would you call it?

EDIT: And to everyone else who is trying to help, but keeps referring to my "poor" driving, how about reading the posts as see that what I am doing (for example, my #2 response above tells it like it is). I have described my driving action during turns many, many times. Also, I have previously stated several times that I will be going to the dealership. Maybe some of you guys need a little remedial reading course???

ewired
05-06-13, 10:35 PM
What car do you have?

zr1mom
05-06-13, 11:06 PM
When a mechanic shakes his or her head at your tires and says they have been vulcanized, this is not a bogus use of a tire term. What your mechanic sees is the effects of heat on your tires, which can prematurely age them and render them useless over time. Vulcanized tires are hard and inflexible, which is the very thing you don't want when it comes to wet pavement. A vulcanized tire can lose its grip on the pavement, potentially sending you out of control until you can get some traction back. Vulcanized tires need to be replaced. If your mechanic uses the dread word in reference to your tires, it's time to start checking tire prices--it's not safe to wait.

Siren05
05-06-13, 11:14 PM
Devulcanized?

torkibe
05-07-13, 12:38 AM
107665
they have been vulcanized

http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200303/tos-034-spock-greets-his-fello/320x240.jpg

cdp
05-07-13, 12:44 AM
For what it's worth, I had the rear end step out a bit on me recently. Had the family in the car and got a "whoa!" from everyone in the car. It was raining pretty hard and tires were cold and I got on the gas a little from a stop as I was turning right to get on a busy feeder road. Nothing huge, but haven't experienced anything so dramatic with my other rear wheel drive cars (including a Z4). However, this is the first automatic I've owned in nearly 30 years, so I think I just accelerated too abruptly (with manual transmission unless I dump the clutch I don't get the same abrupt power delivery). I just chalked it up to heavy rain, cold tires and heavy right foot. However, I think that stability control does give you a little more leeway on this car than most others. I think that's actually a good thing. Was easy enough to catch it (think the stability control did most of the work) and don't think we were ever in danger. Was actually kind of fun. However, I don't think the summer performance tires are the greatest in heavy rain. Just have to keep that in mind.

MD-11
05-07-13, 03:14 AM
Nice copy and paste. Hope you didn't believe this article.


When a mechanic shakes his or her head at your tires and says they have been vulcanized, this is not a bogus use of a tire term.

flycaster
05-07-13, 08:42 AM
What car do you have?

Traded a 2002 BMW 325i in for the ATS turbo Lux. Also have a 2005 BMW Z4 since 2005.

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When a mechanic shakes his or her head at your tires and says they have been vulcanized, this is not a bogus use of a tire term. What your mechanic sees is the effects of heat on your tires, which can prematurely age them and render them useless over time. Vulcanized tires are hard and inflexible, which is the very thing you don't want when it comes to wet pavement. A vulcanized tire can lose its grip on the pavement, potentially sending you out of control until you can get some traction back. Vulcanized tires need to be replaced. If your mechanic uses the dread word in reference to your tires, it's time to start checking tire prices--it's not safe to wait.

zr1mom, are you saying the Michelin Primacy M/S tires are vulcanized? And, correct me if I am wrong, but are all tires vulcanized? Isn't that part of the manufacturing process?

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For what it's worth, I had the rear end step out a bit on me recently. Had the family in the car and got a "whoa!" from everyone in the car. It was raining pretty hard and tires were cold and I got on the gas a little from a stop as I was turning right to get on a busy feeder road. Nothing huge, but haven't experienced anything so dramatic with my other rear wheel drive cars (including a Z4). However, this is the first automatic I've owned in nearly 30 years, so I think I just accelerated too abruptly (with manual transmission unless I dump the clutch I don't get the same abrupt power delivery). I just chalked it up to heavy rain, cold tires and heavy right foot. However, I think that stability control does give you a little more leeway on this car than most others. I think that's actually a good thing. Was easy enough to catch it (think the stability control did most of the work) and don't think we were ever in danger. Was actually kind of fun. However, I don't think the summer performance tires are the greatest in heavy rain. Just have to keep that in mind.

You could have been hydroplaning with all that water on the road? I my case, the roads were merely damp/wet. Haven't had the opportunity to take the turns on a wet road at a constant speed...which I'm sure probably will make a difference. As you have had the same slipping experience as I have had, and you also have a Z4 (which holds on a wet road as does mine), it could be that as the ATS appears to slide for us, but not for others, because of our past driving experience with the BMWs???

Caddy Chris
05-07-13, 03:19 PM
If you were driving a front wheel drive car before the ATS will take a little getting used to.

flycaster
05-07-13, 03:28 PM
If you were driving a front wheel drive car before the ATS will take a little getting used to.

You're right about getting used to RWD after driving a FWD car, but I have been driving BMWs for the last 11 years...all RWD.

jph
05-07-13, 03:49 PM
did all of them have a LSD, while your ATS does not?

how far did the rear actually step out? how sharp was that turn? how fast did you go in?
did you use the brake after turn-in?
did you have to catch and save the slide? or did the rear just do a little dance and the car just kept going?


J.

flycaster
05-07-13, 05:13 PM
did all of them have a LSD, while your ATS does not?

how far did the rear actually step out? how sharp was that turn? how fast did you go in?
did you use the brake after turn-in?
did you have to catch and save the slide? or did the rear just do a little dance and the car just kept going?
J.

None had LSD.
Going normal safe speeds on turns. The turns were at intersections, and the slippage occurs when giving a little gas (read again, slight acceleration...which I believe is the proper way to come out of a turn) as I'm coming out of the turn. At this coming out of turn point and only when on a wet road, the rear will not dance, but just slip out a little in the direction opposite the turn. The car's front end tracks normally while the back catches up. As for catching the slide, that is a little more difficult to answer as it has been a few days since I've driven on a wet road andI don't quite remember. Best I can say is that just a little slippage is scary and I think that I would take my foot off the gas for an instant until the car's rear grabbed the road.

jph
05-07-13, 07:07 PM
if your car has no mechanical defects, i'm going to guess that;

you applied too much throttle for the wet road, and your traction and stability control kept the back end in check after it wanted to step out.


J.

flycaster
05-07-13, 09:34 PM
if your car has no mechanical defects, i'm going to guess that;

you applied too much throttle for the wet road, and your traction and stability control kept the back end in check after it wanted to step out.


J.

I tend to agree with your deduction. However, I wonder how come I'm among the almost 0% who also report slippage? I mean, I know that I am a safe driver and don't take intersection turns at speed, so why is this happening to me and essentially no one else? I'm sure most drivers accelerate slightly when coming out of a turn, but yet no slipping reported. This is all so counter-intuitive.

jamboarder
05-07-13, 10:09 PM
Sorry, I'm just not buying it. Just coming out of a Seattle winter with my ATS with performance tires and if this is really happening as the OP describes, I would expect that I would have experienced it at least once through the entire wet Seattle winter. Not once. Hell, I would assume that Cadillac engineers would have experienced this in wet weather testing. I would assume that a vehicle so inherently unstable as the OP describes would simply have failed to pass basic approval tests - shouldn't even be on the market for sale.

Sure I can get the rear end to step out if I get on the throttle too hard coming out of a turn when its wet - that ain't normal wet road driving and it doesn't take special skill to not do that.

But since the OP has let slip that he has had the same thing happened when driving his 325, then what other reasonable conclusion could there be other than the problem being the driver. Either the driver doesn't realize there is something wrong with his driving or the driver doesn't know what the rear end sliding out feels or looks like. I'm not saying that to be mean, but this just isn't adding up to anything else. Paired with the hyperbole of the title and the original post, as well as the casual lack of urgency in getting the car to the dealership, the very car that the OP considers dangerous to drive...

Hey if I'm wrong I really do hope you get your car fixed ASAP. I suppose I object on some level to the fact that you appear quite excited to declare this an ATS issue when nothing in my experience, in anyone else's experience, through the many reviews the ATS has undergone even vaguely hints at the existence of such a fundamental problem.

zedsded
05-07-13, 10:54 PM
I think that you're probably really low on blinker fluid. These cars are precisely tuned for their 50-50 weight balance. Being out of fluid would cause the rear of the vehicle to be heavier and want to 'come around' in turns.

Should be a quick fix.

73JPS
05-07-13, 11:06 PM
Sorry, I'm just not buying it. Just coming out of a Seattle winter with my ATS with performance tires and if this is really happening as the OP describes, I would expect that I would have experienced it at least once through the entire wet Seattle winter. Not once. Hell, I would assume that Cadillac engineers would have experienced this in wet weather testing. I would assume that a vehicle so inherently unstable as the OP describes would simply have failed to pass basic approval tests - shouldn't even be on the market for sale.

Sure I can get the rear end to step out if I get on the throttle too hard coming out of a turn when its wet - that ain't normal wet road driving and it doesn't take special skill to not do that.

But since the OP has let slip that he has had the same thing happened when driving his 325, then what other reasonable conclusion could there be other than the problem being the driver. Either the driver doesn't realize there is something wrong with his driving or the driver doesn't know what the rear end sliding out feels or looks like. I'm not saying that to be mean, but this just isn't adding up to anything else. Paired with the hyperbole of the title and the original post, as well as the casual lack of urgency in getting the car to the dealership, the very car that the OP considers dangerous to drive...

Hey if I'm wrong I really do hope you get your car fixed ASAP. I suppose I object on some level to the fact that you appear quite excited to declare this an ATS issue when nothing in my experience, in anyone else's experience, through the many reviews the ATS has undergone even vaguely hints at the existence of such a fundamental problem.

This and possibly the fact that the title of this thread is designed to be inflammatory and sensationalist: because really, if the car was dangerous to drive, as you pointed out earlier, the OP should not be chairing a forum discussion, but should rather be having the car towed to the dealership and taken apart for serious inspection. Hopefully, the car has not been driven since the original post, since it's dangerous.

zr1mom
05-07-13, 11:31 PM
Vulcanization & Compounds:
[url]http://www.tirecradle.com[/

Low profile tires with high, speed ratings tend to vulcanize rather rapidly. This occurs at about twice the rate of a 'regular' tire. There are several reasons for this; the first is the compounds that must be used in most of these tires, they have a finite number of heat cycles and harden with each heating and cooling. Also, they will vulcanize with age. That is, you don't have to drive the car much for the tire to vulcanize; just let the tire get old and it will get hard. Tire vulcanization and its' dangers have been addressed elsewhere in this web site.

The bottom line in performance tires is this; most people buy tires with a far higher tread life than necessary and the tires vulcanize well before they are worn out. This creates a dangerous situation as the vulcanized tire compromises traction while cornering, braking and accelerating. you would do well to consider the UTQG tread wear factor when you buy your next set of performance tires.

MD-11
05-08-13, 02:50 AM
Vulcanization & Compounds:
[url]http://www.tirecradle.com[/

Low profile tires with high, speed ratings tend to vulcanize rather rapidly. This occurs at about twice the rate of a 'regular' tire. There are several reasons for this; the first is the compounds that must be used in most of these tires, they have a finite number of heat cycles and harden with each heating and cooling. Also, they will vulcanize with age. That is, you don't have to drive the car much for the tire to vulcanize; just let the tire get old and it will get hard. Tire vulcanization and its' dangers have been addressed elsewhere in this web site.

The bottom line in performance tires is this; most people buy tires with a far higher tread life than necessary and the tires vulcanize well before they are worn out. This creates a dangerous situation as the vulcanized tire compromises traction while cornering, braking and accelerating. you would do well to consider the UTQG tread wear factor when you buy your next set of performance tires.

I give up. :banghead:

M5eater
05-08-13, 09:18 AM
well OP, if it comforts you, I will say that strolling along one of the lessor ATS reviews this morning on the way to work(carpooling) I noted that the host mentioned in pouring rain that the tail liked to step out even with modest acceleration. It may very well be simply a high engagement point TCS in combination with all-season RFT's that just plain suck. .

If you really enjoy the car otherwise, my suggestion would be(presuming the dealer has checked and verified there's nothing actually wrong) to upgrade to summer tires. You live in FL, so you'll never really need all seasons anyway.

Yplus
05-08-13, 02:01 PM
I tend to agree with your deduction. However, I wonder how come I'm among the almost 0% who also report slippage? I mean, I know that I am a safe driver and don't take intersection turns at speed, so why is this happening to me and essentially no one else? I'm sure most drivers accelerate slightly when coming out of a turn, but yet no slipping reported. This is all so counter-intuitive.


Check your tire pressures. Check your rear tires for uneven wear. Sorry, it seems no one else has this issue so you are either extremely sensitive to any small slippage of a tire or your rear tire pressure are way off.

flycaster
05-08-13, 04:25 PM
well OP, if it comforts you, I will say that strolling along one of the lessor ATS reviews this morning on the way to work(carpooling) I noted that the host mentioned in pouring rain that the tail liked to step out even with modest acceleration. It may very well be simply a high engagement point TCS in combination with all-season RFT's that just plain suck. .

If you really enjoy the car otherwise, my suggestion would be(presuming the dealer has checked and verified there's nothing actually wrong) to upgrade to summer tires. You live in FL, so you'll never really need all seasons anyway.

Hey, M5eater (BTW, what's your drive that eats the M5?), good to know that I am not hallucinating about this slippage stuff (LOL) and that at least some ATS drivers are noting this. Hard to tell after getting so many sarcastic responses to this issue.

I'm inclined to agree with you about the tire/TCS combination and the possibility that this is confounded by the degree of acceleration when coming out of the turn. Also, a previous poster discussed how the tires can harden due to vulcanization and thus loose some of the gripping characteristics. Certainly possible, but as this is a new car with hopefully new tires, I don't think this variable is at work.

I do hope it rains before I take the car to the dealer on Friday, so that I can test between no acceleration and slight acceleration through wet road turns.

Thanks for your reasonable comments.

thebigjimsho
05-08-13, 04:57 PM
I will say that the F1 Supercar EMTs that came stock on the V1 were awful in the rain. Stabilitrak kept it from.stepping out, but it would want to. A stiff sidewall with poor wet surface ability will snap quickly.

Cadillac Cust Svc
05-09-13, 10:39 AM
For what it's worth, I had the rear end step out a bit on me recently. Had the family in the car and got a "whoa!" from everyone in the car. It was raining pretty hard and tires were cold and I got on the gas a little from a stop as I was turning right to get on a busy feeder road. Nothing huge, but haven't experienced anything so dramatic with my other rear wheel drive cars (including a Z4). However, this is the first automatic I've owned in nearly 30 years, so I think I just accelerated too abruptly (with manual transmission unless I dump the clutch I don't get the same abrupt power delivery). I just chalked it up to heavy rain, cold tires and heavy right foot. However, I think that stability control does give you a little more leeway on this car than most others. I think that's actually a good thing. Was easy enough to catch it (think the stability control did most of the work) and don't think we were ever in danger. Was actually kind of fun. However, I don't think the summer performance tires are the greatest in heavy rain. Just have to keep that in mind.

Hello cdp,

Great hearing your input on the stability control! Good to know you never felt in danger while driving under these conditions. Enjoy driving your ATS around :)

Sincerely,

Laura M.
Cadillac Customer Service

zr1mom
05-09-13, 09:18 PM
I give up. :banghead:

Sorry the caddie made me do it. :yup:

rustybear3
05-09-13, 10:27 PM
This thread is hilarious! OP declares his car is dangerous to drive! Great majority does not even hint of a similar problem. So dangerous that he would rather read internet responses than take car to the dealer. Been told over and over it's not normal.....BUT...... Debate Ad nauseam about potential solutions for a problem nobody seems to have.........priceless! :cookoo:

flycaster
05-10-13, 09:31 AM
This thread is hilarious! ...

Not hilarious, but it has become real boring. I'm outa here....

ewired
05-10-13, 06:04 PM
Yea the bimmer people seem to be more of your crowd anyway. Besides, you reference your prior and present one so much, that it is getting quite old. Hope your WIFE enjoys her ATS....but wait you love and care for her so much that you still allow her to drive this "dangerous" vehicle instead of towing it immediately to the dealer. Makes no sense. Don't make outlandish titles and statements, and not expect some of us to flame you when you get the answer you need and refuse to accept it.

z06bigbird
05-11-13, 03:46 AM
1. Tons of CTS-Vs at Co-part auctions--many of them with almost no miles. That situation is a function of high horsepower plus water on the street. Independent research has shown that some of those wrecks also involved a loose nut. Location was right behind the steering wheel.

2. Go to TireRack.com. Select your brand of tires and click on survey. That website has a graphical matrix of most tires and their characteristics, including hydroplaning, noise level, expected mileage, performance in light snow, in med snow, in heavy snow. Also shows the percentage of people who would buy that particular brand again. Website shows about 12 to 14 tire characteristics. I use that info prior to purchasing tires. You might have a good point if supplier provided a new model of tires for your caddy. Did GM accept Confucius' recommendation (trust, but verify).

BTW, if you are unhappy with the performance of your tires in wet weather, call the tire manufacturer. They will be happy to give you a credit for your brand and flavor of tires, and they might even allow you to purchase a diff brand. GM has nothing to do with this. This is a situation between you, your impression of tires, and the tire manufacturer. I have done this at least twice in past 8 years. This works particularly well if you do not beat up the tire manufacturer--not that anyone would ever consider acting like a child. Keep us posted on your situation with tires and manufacturer.

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It's probably the runflats that's the issue. They are known to handle like crap and ride rough. I can't wait to get rid of mine.

1. Run flats and summer tires lose their "stickyness" under 45 degrees F. Do a little research on the internet.

2. Run flats will ride rough because they are so stiff. Next time you pull a tire off of your wheel, stand your tire vertically (without wheel) against a wall. Carefully stand on the top surface of the tire. Note that it will not collapse like a regular tire. Even if the 'stander' is about 300 lbs.

3. Run flats are specifically designed to handle/match the performance and handling characteristics of sports cars. Corvettes and other high performance cars have been using runflats for years. Run flats are REQUIRED on certain high end cars. Next time you drive your Lamborghini, take a look at the sidewall of your tires. You will see a run flat designation. Lastly, you cannot safely mix run flats and regular radials. Worse than mixing bias ply tires and radial tires.

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No run-flats aren't the issue. This is getting preposterous.



That's the problem here isn't it: Vague assertions about the car doing something you wouldn't expect in any production vehicle from the last 40 years. The idea that the ATS's rear end is sliding out when cornering at normal speeds in wet conditions is, I'm sorry, ridiculous. There are no normal conditions under which that occurs. None. No one is experiencing this. No one.

Hey hey, my car is dangerous to drive: the right rear wheel falls off when I drive over a speed bump at normal speeds. Anyone else experiencing that?

What's worth discussing here? It ain't normal. There is no ATS "wet road-rear end slippage problem" for Cadillac to take note of and I'll happily eat my words if there is.

I agree.

Light rain
+
road dust and/or oil
+
high horsepower
+
the possibility of a loose nut (just behind the steering wheel)
=
skidding/sliding.

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Although I don't believe that I presented a "general and vague situation," you are right, I shouldn't have any issues. Slipping occurs on turns when raining, and when the road just is wet. I don't take intersection turns at higher than posted speeds (of course highway on ramp speeds are a different matter). Tire pressure should be fine even though I've adjusted the psi to 37psi rears and 35psi fronts. Nonetheless, in the interest of fairness, the next time the roads are wet I will run two tests: 1) Take the turn at a constant speed, without slightly (lightly) accelerating out of it, 2) Drop the psi's to 35/32 rear/front and then try the turns on a wet road at constant speed and then with slight acceleration.

I have felt this type of slipping with my beloved 325 (traction control on), but not on my Z4??? Could be the tires (probably not as others haven't report this issue and my Z4 had different tires than the 325). It could be the way I take the turns and we'll soon find out...when the next rain comes, which should be in the next few days.

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First, let me suggest that if your tire falls off, maybe a little crazy glue would help the next time you go over a speed bump.

Anyway, guys, I have no idea why you think I'm being vague with my description of this issue? I'm not a speeder. I don't barrel through turns. I know how it feels when a car slips and when it holds the road. The car hugs the road when the road is dry, but rear end slips when wet (been duly noted many times). As stated before, if I don't get to the dealer first before the next rain, I will try going through the intersection turns without lightly accelerating coming out of the turn (viz., take the turn at constant speed).

OR

Move to San Antonio. It has not rained in about 20 years. Current forecasts indicate a slight possibility in 2033 or so. Then again, you know how accurate those forecasts are.

BTW, how well do your vehicles perform in snow? Snow is just rain at 33 to 40 degrees. (not sure what part of country you live in.)

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either there is something horribly broken in the suspension or differential on your ATS.
or, you are driving beyong the cars's or drivers capabilities for the given road conditions.

option one, take it to your dealership ASAP.
option two, adjust your driving style.



J.

Very pithy answer!! Right on, man.

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When a mechanic shakes his or her head at your tires and says they have been vulcanized, this is not a bogus use of a tire term. What your mechanic sees is the effects of heat on your tires, which can prematurely age them and render them useless over time. Vulcanized tires are hard and inflexible, which is the very thing you don't want when it comes to wet pavement. A vulcanized tire can lose its grip on the pavement, potentially sending you out of control until you can get some traction back. Vulcanized tires need to be replaced. If your mechanic uses the dread word in reference to your tires, it's time to start checking tire prices--it's not safe to wait.

Vulcanization refers to the process of creating a "blended/smooth" surface after needing to patch a rubber product. The process was developed around 1844 or so, methinks. In the mid 20th century, many tire shops advertised vulcanized patches. That was basically a 'hot patch' where the shop applied some flammable glue. After a few seconds drying, the glue was set on fire. Then the patch was attached (inside of tire).

On other products, instead of applying a visible external patch, the item was patched in such a way that the average person could not detect the patch from the original material. Macadam can be vulcanized by using hot tar to smooth out any holes or ripples in the roadway. Now, aren't you sorry that you asked about vulcanization. I am.

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Vulcanization & Compounds:
[url]http://www.tirecradle.com[/

Low profile tires with high, speed ratings tend to vulcanize rather rapidly. This occurs at about twice the rate of a 'regular' tire. There are several reasons for this; the first is the compounds that must be used in most of these tires, they have a finite number of heat cycles and harden with each heating and cooling. Also, they will vulcanize with age. That is, you don't have to drive the car much for the tire to vulcanize; just let the tire get old and it will get hard. Tire vulcanization and its' dangers have been addressed elsewhere in this web site.

The bottom line in performance tires is this; most people buy tires with a far higher tread life than necessary and the tires vulcanize well before they are worn out. This creates a dangerous situation as the vulcanized tire compromises traction while cornering, braking and accelerating. you would do well to consider the UTQG tread wear factor when you buy your next set of performance tires.

Heck, and I thought I was smart. Actually, as a child I was so bright that my parents call me sunny.

I always equated vulcanization with crystalization (at least in my mind--not on my mind). Crystalization of the rubber. Well, I learned something. I will shut up. (soon??)

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OP--we don't mean to pick on you, although it was a little bit fun.

Your situation seems uncommon. Don't take our comments personally. Besides, you seem like an easy target. lol

stevenzoz
05-11-13, 06:46 PM
Do you have the standard 17s or the optional 18s? I ask this because I drove one with 17s and always felt like I had complete control. While driving one with the 18s, I feel it give a little more (not in a good way) around turns (doesnt hold the turns as well, IMO), etc.