: "Philosophical" question re: Cadillac history



bwv565
04-20-13, 06:17 PM
OK, so obviously I love Cadillacs otherwise I wouldn't be here. Ever since I rode in my grandfather's Coupe de Ville that was a dark blue with RED leather seats and the intriguing (for a kid) blinkers on the hood, I've wanted one.

I have owned a 97 Caterrible, a 2004 CTS and now a 2003 STS.

I have had nothing but problems with all three, the worst, of course, being the Catera.

When I tell people I have a Cadillac, I get a sneer and a look like "are you crazy?". They have reputations for being unreliable and money pits (my STS has proven that already in less than 2 months of ownership, although it's partially my fault for not having taken it to a mechanic before purchase - lesson learned).

There's an expression as you all know, if something is of top quality, it's "the Cadillac of ....whatever...", meaning the best.

So if Caddys are so terrible and so unreliable and so expensive to maintain, etc., how could they survive all these years as luxury cars that have such attraction? I think they've lost a lot of that but perhaps are regaining it thanks to the 2013/2014 ATS/XTS and the coming CTS but I still get looks of incredulity when I tell someone I love Cadillacs.

Anyway just curious if someone can give me a good comeback line for those situations, other than "I love my car". :)

Thanks.

Jesda
04-20-13, 06:36 PM
Get new friends.

bwv565
04-20-13, 06:39 PM
That's not really what I was looking for. These are people who are car lovers, since my friends generally don't care about cars.

By the way, are you the same JesdaG who posted a video review on YouTube of your STS (http://youtu.be/e0BSC7E4MYU)?

Your profile above says you have a Saab and Dodge. No Cadillac?

CadillacLuke24
04-20-13, 07:32 PM
OK, so obviously I love Cadillacs otherwise I wouldn't be here. Ever since I rode in my grandfather's Coupe de Ville that was a dark blue with RED leather seats and the intriguing (for a kid) blinkers on the hood, I've wanted one.

I have owned a 97 Caterrible, a 2004 CTS and now a 2003 STS.

I have had nothing but problems with all three, the worst, of course, being the Catera.

When I tell people I have a Cadillac, I get a sneer and a look like "are you crazy?". They have reputations for being unreliable and money pits (my STS has proven that already in less than 2 months of ownership, although it's partially my fault for not having taken it to a mechanic before purchase - lesson learned).

There's an expression as you all know, if something is of top quality, it's "the Cadillac of ....whatever...", meaning the best.

So if Caddys are so terrible and so unreliable and so expensive to maintain, etc., how could they survive all these years as luxury cars that have such attraction? I think they've lost a lot of that but perhaps are regaining it thanks to the 2013/2014 ATS/XTS and the coming CTS but I still get looks of incredulity when I tell someone I love Cadillacs.

Anyway just curious if someone can give me a good comeback line for those situations, other than "I love my car". :)

Thanks.

Something to keep in mind is that the newest of the cars you've had is 9 years old. Stuff breaks. Stuff wears out. And depending on the previous owner, they may be worse off than a normal car.

As far as the sneers, I'm not sure what to suggest. I've been quite fortunate in that I have a very nice Cadillac, and I've been able to keep it in top shape.

bwv565
04-20-13, 07:35 PM
True, Luke. It's not so much people sneering at the looks of the car, but just the reputation of the lack of reliability. But I think we all probably put up with this issue because we all love our cars that much, I know I do, at least. Driving my STS is a real treat for me.106968

orconn
04-20-13, 07:48 PM
I get a little tired of hearing buyers of clapped out used Cadillacs complain about reliability when what they are really complaining about is their own misguided expectations and their lack of funds to maintain an old luxury car.

How often on the Forums do we hear, I got a real deal on this ten year or older Cadillac (you name the model) with 150,000 miles on it ..... the interior and exterior were really in good condition, but I am having trouble with mechanical things and accessories and, gee, it needs new shocks and they are so expensive!

Hoosier Daddy
04-20-13, 08:32 PM
That's not really what I was looking for. These are people who are car lovers, since my friends generally don't care about cars.
You just need to perfect your "Chelsea Smile".

I've got a secret.
It's on the tip of my tongue, it's on the back of my lungs.
And I'm gonna keep it.
I know something you will never know.
You will never know.
I know something you don't know.

Kad4Life
04-20-13, 08:42 PM
Driving my STS is a real treat for me.

I think you came up with your comeback right there ... :D
Some people only want transportation; we can't help those poor buggers ...

orconn
04-20-13, 08:46 PM
As they say in Vegas, "you have to pay to play!"

Ranger
04-20-13, 08:54 PM
I have had nothing but problems with all three, the worst, of course, being the Catera.

You cannot count that. The Catera was not a Cadillac.

The-Dullahan
04-20-13, 10:44 PM
Meh. Purchase a '59 DeVille. Thhe first things people associate that vehicle with are not "unreliability". You tell us that your friends "Generally don't care about cars" and that probably means they are good people. I hate "car people" myself. (With all respect to you gentlemen) so "get new friends" may not be good advice. But maybe the way to look at it is that you need to "generally not care" what they think of your car. Especially if even they themselves don't care about cars. Realistically, one should never make any decision based on what others think. What matters is what you believe.

If you like driving a Cadillac...well, drive a Cadillac.

To actually invest the time in what others think about you is a waste of time. And rather conceited. If you are not out to impress anyone, it shouldn't matter to you what they think. Especially about something so trivial as what brand of car you drive, which isn't be a major of a part of your life or personality. What is more foolish than judging someone by what they drive is perhaps to care what people will judge of you for what you drive.

77CDV
04-20-13, 11:04 PM
Meh. Purchase a '59 DeVille. Thhe first things people associate that vehicle with are not "unreliability". You tell us that your friends "Generally don't care about cars" and that probably means they are good people. I hate "car people" myself. (With all respect to you gentlemen) so "get new friends" may not be good advice. But maybe the way to look at it is that you need to "generally not care" what they think of your car. Especially if even they themselves don't care about cars. Realistically, one should never make any decision based on what others think. What matters is what you believe.

If you like driving a Cadillac...well, drive a Cadillac.

To actually invest the time in what others think about you is a waste of time. And rather conceited. If you are not out to impress anyone, it shouldn't matter to you what they think. Especially about something so trivial as what brand of car you drive, which isn't be a major of a part of your life or personality. What is more foolish than judging someone by what they drive is perhaps to care what people will judge of you for what you drive.

The TRUTH has been spoken.

vincentm
04-20-13, 11:12 PM
Get new friends.
^This

CadillacLuke24
04-20-13, 11:38 PM
I get a little tired of hearing buyers of clapped out used Cadillacs complain about reliability when what they are really complaining about is their own misguided expectations and their lack of funds to maintain an old luxury car.

How often on the Forums do we hear, I got a real deal on this ten year or older Cadillac (you name the model) with 150,000 miles on it ..... the interior and exterior were really in good condition, but I am having trouble with mechanical things and accessories and, gee, it needs new shocks and they are so expensive!

BINGO!

People expect a car worth $2500 to have similar costing repairs. The truth of the matter is that these cars are going to reflect their $50,000, FWD V8 nature when stuff breaks.

Maybe a snappy comeback would be "Well, the Space Shuttle needed fixin' every now and then too." :D

talismandave
04-21-13, 12:33 AM
I look at the "Care and feeding" of a Cadillac the same way I look a the cost of divorce.

The reason they cost so much?


Because they are worth it!

Jesda
04-21-13, 04:19 AM
That's not really what I was looking for. These are people who are car lovers, since my friends generally don't care about cars.

By the way, are you the same JesdaG who posted a video review on YouTube of your STS (http://youtu.be/e0BSC7E4MYU)?

Your profile above says you have a Saab and Dodge. No Cadillac?

That's me! I put around 40k on that Seville in a little over a year and let it go. It ended up being surprisingly cheap to maintain for the mileage ($1900/yr based on normal annual mileage, and that includes minor body work). I drove it as often as I possibly could to every corner of the country and genuinely enjoyed it. I sold it mostly because the gray interior was painfully drab. My next Cadillac will be a 92-04 STS or 06-11 DTS with a shale or black interior.

http://jesda.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/wpid-P1080995-2012-01-19-03-09.jpg
[Mine's on the left. Gary's is the white one on the right.]

I only had the Ram for 6 months but sold it because I needed an extended or crew cab. It was excellent to drive thanks to its lighter weight (2WD, V6, short wheelbase), flat torque curve, and responsive transmission.

My Saab 900 convertible will probably be with me for many years.

ryannel2003
04-21-13, 05:57 AM
I get a little tired of hearing buyers of clapped out used Cadillacs complain about reliability when what they are really complaining about is their own misguided expectations and their lack of funds to maintain an old luxury car.

How often on the Forums do we hear, I got a real deal on this ten year or older Cadillac (you name the model) with 150,000 miles on it ..... the interior and exterior were really in good condition, but I am having trouble with mechanical things and accessories and, gee, it needs new shocks and they are so expensive!

This is simply not true. My Cadillac was far from "clapped out" and yet I still had issues with reliability on that car. Rest assured there are people on this forum who don't have issues but I know from experience working at a Cadillac dealership and checking these forums that in fact these cars aren't exactly pillars of reliability. Not that any luxury car is but parts are hard to find and even clean looking cars like mine had underlying issues that were never fixed.

BTW, my car had 54k miles with one owner who was a doctors wife and didn't go hard on the car at all. Yet at 54k it needed headgaskets, oil seals, coolant crossover pipe, new CV axle and a transmission output seal. I had every record for that car and once it went out of warranty the couple spent about $5k to keep it on the road. I added another $5k to that total when I bought it. Poor quality.

truckinman
04-21-13, 07:26 AM
Hell I've had my 05 STS over a year now (time flies when you're having fun) and I've yet to have a major repair. And it's even got the dreaded 3.6. All I've done is replace one coil pack. And I did that myself so it cost next to nothing. I just make sure she's always got oil, and for a 3.6, it's a slow leaker. Since I changed the oil 5k miles ago, I've only needed to add 2 quarts.

Tell them there's an ass for every seat! Just like some people drive Prius's. to each their own. I've gotten many odd looks from some of my jeeps. But hey, it's not there's. if they think Cadillacs are soooo unreliable, tell them that's why there are other makes out there, so they can buy what ever they want no matter how boring or dull it may be. People like that are set in their specific ways and NO special come back will change their minds.

Personally, I've never had a single person judge my Cadillac in a negative way. Granted they don't have the reliability factor of a Lexus, neither does a Ferrari, yet people dream of owning those cars.

Really there are two lines you need to remember in this situation. "Kiss my Cadillac loving ass". And "you don't have to buy one". Simple as that

CTSCHICK
04-21-13, 10:16 AM
I haven't needed any comeback lines in defense of my CTS any one that has criticized it so far has ended up having issue's with their own cars that were supposed to be so superior in quality lol

Hoosier Daddy
04-21-13, 10:22 AM
I haven't needed any comeback lines in defense of my CTS any one that has criticized it so far has ended up having issue's with their own cars that were supposed to be so superior in quality lol
Did they have these problems before or after you put sugar in their tanks?

ryannel2003
04-21-13, 10:41 AM
I never felt the need to defend myself against my car. I really don't give a shit if people like what I drive or not. I used to be friends with somebody who asked me why I bought a grandpa car. Of course he was jealous because he always drove beater cars around and he always asked to drive my car and would talk about how much better his car was than mine.

Of course the running joke was my car was unreliable and I spent too much money on it which was partially true.

CTSCHICK
04-21-13, 11:15 AM
Did they have these problems before or after you put sugar in their tanks?

Nah from what I have seen Bmw's & Audi's don't need any help in that area.

bwv565
04-21-13, 11:29 AM
Thanks for all the comments.

I was looking for retorts, true, but I actually don't care what others think, I love my car in spite of its downfalls. I was more wondering, I suppose, why Caddys have this aura of luxury when really they have been unreliable and money pits when they require major work.

Where did the saying "the Cadillac of ...whatever..." come from? There must have been a time when they were truly the best of the best, right?

Cheers.

ryannel2003
04-21-13, 11:36 AM
Thanks for all the comments.

I was looking for retorts, true, but I actually don't care what others think, I love my car in spite of its downfalls. I was more wondering, I suppose, why Caddys have this aura of luxury when really they have been unreliable and money pits when they require major work.

Where did the saying "the Cadillac of ...whatever..." come from? There must have been a time when they were truly the best of the best, right?

Cheers.

Back in the late 50's and early 60's was the last time Cadillac was truly "The Standard of the World". Poor quality and lapses in judgement in the 70s and 80s just about killed the brand. There were a few bright spots like the '76 Seville, '77 Sedan de Ville and '79 Eldorado but after that things really started going downhill until '92 with the introduction of the 4th Gen Seville and Eldorado. It's really amazing that Cadillac is still around today and thankfully so.

bwv565
04-21-13, 11:37 AM
Back in the late 50's and early 60's was the last time Cadillac was truly "The Standard of the World". Poor quality and lapses in judgement in the 70s and 80s just about killed the brand. There were a few bright spots like the '76 Seville, '77 Sedan de Ville and '79 Eldorado but after that things really started going downhill until '92 with the introduction of the 4th Gen Seville and Eldorado. It's really amazing that Cadillac is still around today and thankfully so.

THANK YOU ryanne, that's precisely the info I was hoping to get from someone, it does explain my question.

rodnok01
04-21-13, 11:47 AM
I figure if people think they are unreliable and too much $$$ to maintain and repair they will leave them for us to buy and enjoy even cheaper.
Having owned, driven and learned to drive in Cadillac's I can say there have been some real creme puffs, but the reliability and overall quality of the car is very high compared to most manufacturers.

bwv565
04-21-13, 11:53 AM
That's me!

LOL I've watched that video many times, I really enjoy it. My favorite part is when you say "I keep buying them because they're so beautiful". ;) Thanks for posting the video, you sort of convinced me to buy one, because I thought your review was honest and helpful, even though in the end you say you can't recommend buying one. :)

CadillacLuke24
04-21-13, 04:49 PM
"Kiss my Cadillac loving ass".

WE HAVE A WINNER! I will definitely have to use this!!!

Aron9000
04-22-13, 03:59 AM
You can always pull a Benedict Arnold and actually buy a Lexus. Best car I've ever owned, even if it doesn't have the character my old aircraft carrier sized Cadillacs had.

Jesda
04-22-13, 05:40 AM
You can always pull a Benedict Arnold and actually buy a Lexus. Best car I've ever owned, even if it doesn't have the character my old aircraft carrier sized Cadillacs had.

That's cheating. You own a first-gen SC which is arguably the most unique and interesting Lexus ever made.

thebigjimsho
04-22-13, 08:41 AM
That's cheating. You own a first-gen SC which is arguably the most unique and interesting Lexus ever made.

The only Lexus I've ever lusted after. But V8 only. The V6 looked wimpy with its smaller wheels...

Aron9000
04-22-13, 10:16 PM
The only Lexus I've ever lusted after. But V8 only. The V6 looked wimpy with its smaller wheels...

Its a 3.0 inline six, same drivetrain as a non-turbocharged Supra. The folks in Japan always get all the cool options, you could get one with a inline six, 2.5 liter twin turbo motor over there. And yes the stock 15" wheels suck.

Jesda
04-22-13, 10:48 PM
I'd slap on a set of BBS wheels anyway.

thebigjimsho
04-22-13, 11:05 PM
Needs the lip spoiler and whatever body cladding the V8 had, too...

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Its a 3.0 inline six, same drivetrain as a non-turbocharged Supra. The folks in Japan always get all the cool options, you could get one with a inline six, 2.5 liter twin turbo motor over there. And yes the stock 15" wheels suck.

My bad on the V6. Trying to type too fast on the mobile. I did know that. I've seen many Lexus/Supra conversions...

GizmoQ
04-23-13, 05:57 PM
"When you turn your car on... does it return the favor?"

I can honestly say all mine do, regardless of any issues or cost. I've been through three Eldorados and am already planning to buy a Collectors Edition 2002 (and mod the hell out of it). I don't care what it cost to buy or maintain, I feel better (even on my best days) as soon as I fire the engine, especially the XLR-V (I'll probably update this, too, to an 09 and again mod the hell out of it).

I'm reminded of a commercial that came out late last year, something about "Who perfected the mag ride suspension system now in use on the new Ferraris? Oh yeah, Cadillac!"

bwv565
04-23-13, 06:35 PM
"When you turn your car on... does it return the favor?"

I can honestly say all mine do, regardless of any issues or cost. I've been through three Eldorados and am already planning to buy a Collectors Edition 2002 (and mod the hell out of it). I don't care what it cost to buy or maintain, I feel better (even on my best days) as soon as I fire the engine, especially the XLR-V (I'll probably update this, too, to an 09 and again mod the hell out of it).

I'm reminded of a commercial that came out late last year, something about "Who perfected the mag ride suspension system now in use on the new Ferraris? Oh yeah, Cadillac!"

Hey Gizmo I like that answer the best. And my answer to your question in the first paragraph is an unequivocal YES.

orconn
04-23-13, 07:38 PM
"When you turn your car on... does it return the favor?"

I can honestly say all mine do, regardless of any issues or cost. I've been through three Eldorados and am already planning to buy a Collectors Edition 2002 (and mod the hell out of it). I don't care what it cost to buy or maintain, I feel better (even on my best days) as soon as I fire the engine, especially the XLR-V (I'll probably update this, too, to an 09 and again mod the hell out of it).

I'm reminded of a commercial that came out late last year, something about "Who perfected the mag ride suspension system now in use on the new Ferraris? Oh yeah, Cadillac!"

You have captured my sentiment on car ownership well, Gizmo! I am well beyond caring about what my piers think about what I choose to drive. If it turns me on when I turn it on that's all I need to bring a smile to my face.

EChas3
04-23-13, 09:27 PM
I too, think Gizmo comes as close as anyone. For a long time, I loved my cars. After about '95, beautiful & desireable cars started becoming less common. A decade ago, I needed a new daily driver but there wasn't anything I wanted.

About 5 years ago, my wife bought an STS. She convinced me it was pretty nice. Then I found a loaded 1SG. I love this car.

What's next?

CadillacLuke24
04-24-13, 12:26 AM
I love my Alexandra :cloud9:

PavelV8
04-24-13, 08:12 AM
"Kiss my Cadillac loving ass".

Im definitely gonna make a bumper sticker of this... :yup:

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"When you turn your car on... does it return the favor?"

yep, and this could be a nice sticker too.

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thanks guys for things you write. i got a first caddy and second US car in my life (first was 95 LHS), and these thoughts are important to me as a "US cars greenhorn" :thumbsup:

truckinman
04-24-13, 08:31 AM
Im definitely gonna make a bumper sticker of this... :yup:

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yep, and this could be a nice sticker too.

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thanks guys for things you write. i got a first caddy and second US car in my life (first was 95 LHS), and these thoughts are important to me as a "US cars greenhorn" :thumbsup:

My parents had a 94 LHS back when they were new. Nothing but issues. Lol. I drove it once I got my license. I remember thinking it was powerful. Lol. But I do gotta say, that 3.5 sounded good. It's bark was definitely bigger than its bite. Lol

PavelV8
04-24-13, 01:58 PM
actually only issue i had was the sound :D everything was okay, i thought i got finally a real US car, but then i realized its not a true US car untill it doesnt have a V8... so now i got finally a car with AWESOME BARK B-) i mean, american... my Corrado used to have nice sound too, with stainless exhaust with no silencers... :P