: Opinions on New XTX Being FWD and not RWD



BONNEVILLEGXP
04-19-13, 10:02 AM
It's interesting to see Cadillac stick with FWD, well at least for me. Good thing there's a AWD option for the more performance focused drivers.

77CDV
04-20-13, 11:17 PM
This subject has been beat to death around here. Some folks don't care, some like the FWD, some wish it was RWD (my opinion). The car is what it is, and the general consensus is that it's a stopgap until Cadillac can afford to develop a real flagship sedan, after which it will quietly fade into obilvion.

BONNEVILLEGXP
04-20-13, 11:21 PM
This subject has been beat to death around here. Some folks don't care, some like the FWD, some wish it was RWD (my opinion). The car is what it is, and the general consensus is that it's a stopgap until Cadillac can afford to develop a real flagship sedan, after which it will quietly fade into obilvion.

If they want to kill the 5 series without mercy they need to dump the FWD. I love the FWD for snow, but the generation that is starting to buy cars like that want RWD for the most part.

Jesda
04-21-13, 04:12 AM
If they want to kill the 5 series without mercy they need to dump the FWD.

New CTS addresses that with its larger cabin and improved interior.

BONNEVILLEGXP
04-21-13, 06:51 AM
New CTS addresses that with its larger cabin and improved interior.

So I am guessing that they're targeting the ATS towards the older generation and the CTS to the younger? The CTS is better looking in my opinion anyways tbh.

Hoosier Daddy
04-21-13, 07:50 AM
So I am guessing that they're targeting the ATS towards the older generation and the CTS to the younger?
No, it's the other way around. The ATS is the 3 series competitor. The CTS is the 5 series competitor.

Or did you mean to type XTS instead of ATS? If so, then yes.

BONNEVILLEGXP
04-21-13, 09:25 AM
No, it's the other way around. The ATS is the 3 series competitor. The CTS is the 5 series competitor.

Or did you mean to type XTS instead of ATX? If so, then yes.

Yeah XTS. Sorry.

CTSCHICK
04-21-13, 10:00 AM
If the target demographic for the ATS is 51yrs old with an income of 132k I wonder what the CTS & XTS is

BONNEVILLEGXP
04-21-13, 10:22 AM
If the target demographic for the ATS is 51yrs old with an income of 132k I wonder what the CTS & XTS is

Generation Y would be more of the target for the ATS. Mid 30's. XTS I would say would be what is replacing the DTSs demographic. Two different Philosophies behind the cars.

CTSCHICK
04-21-13, 10:29 AM
Generation Y would be more of the target for the ATS. Mid 30's. XTS I would say would be what is replacing the DTSs demographic. Two different Philosophies behind the cars.

Not according to GM page 3

http://www.vehicleaccessorycenter.com/inc/files/editor/files/2013ATSLaunchKit_I_v32_VERSION1.pdf

BONNEVILLEGXP
04-21-13, 10:37 AM
Not according to GM page 3

http://www.vehicleaccessorycenter.com/inc/files/editor/files/2013ATSLaunchKit_I_v32_VERSION1.pdf

Interesting. I guess that would work out better. Younger people don't make crap for a income, so a 50k car is out if their price range.

ryannel2003
04-21-13, 10:48 AM
Interesting. I guess that would work out better. Younger people don't make crap for a income, so a 50k car is out if their price range.

This is where leasing comes in. Cadillac is counting on Gen Y with degrees and others to step away from the BMW and Mercedes and get the Cadillac. The 2.0T ATS is leasing for $299 right now in my area which is $70 less than a similar BMW 328i is going for.

Aron9000
04-22-13, 03:47 AM
This is where leasing comes in. Cadillac is counting on Gen Y with degrees and others to step away from the BMW and Mercedes and get the Cadillac. The 2.0T ATS is leasing for $299 right now in my area which is $70 less than a similar BMW 328i is going for.

Would still rather drive a 20 year old car than have a car payment(from a 29 year old Gen Y'er)

ryannel2003
04-22-13, 01:25 PM
Would still rather drive a 20 year old car than have a car payment(from a 29 year old Gen Y'er)

At this point I am ready to move on to something new with a warranty. Once I graduate and get a job I'll most likely pick up an ATS or 328i.

Jesda
04-22-13, 06:15 PM
Would still rather drive a 20 year old car than have a car payment(from a 29 year old Gen Y'er)

Me too.


I'd rather have occasional repairs (and a rental car) than another monetary obligation to a financial institution.

talismandave
04-23-13, 12:09 AM
$299/month will build up nicely in the bank for the occasional repair!

...and in 2 years, I still have a car, instead of a bill for door dings and mileage overages etc.

ryannel2003
04-23-13, 12:17 AM
There comes a point when dumping money into an old car becomes unreasonable. Plus I've never owned anything remotely new so I'd like to enjoy that at least once in my life.

talismandave
04-23-13, 12:22 AM
Now that is a valid reason. Although they are only new until you turn it on for the first time and put it in gear and drive away. From then on it is stone chips and door dings and eventually the car is old and the payment is still "new car".

I can say I recommend everyone do it once though.

CadillacLuke24
04-23-13, 12:46 AM
I can say I recommend everyone do it once though.

Is that kinda like my reasoning for going to the Sturgis rally?

Do it once.....

....so you never do it again? :sneaky:

Jesda
04-23-13, 12:52 AM
There comes a point when dumping money into an old car becomes unreasonable. Plus I've never owned anything remotely new so I'd like to enjoy that at least once in my life.

Go ahead and get it out of your system.

ryannel2003
04-23-13, 12:59 AM
With the prices of CPO cars close or near to the new cars it doesn't make sense to buy used. For example a clean E90 328i is around $30k while the new F30 320i w/ Sport Package is $35k-$36k. Really only losing 40HP but gaining a new car. I want to be the first one to fart in my car.

Jesda
04-23-13, 01:15 AM
So go a little older, get an aftermarket warranty, and save $25k.

As for farts, I guarantee the guys in Munich produce plenty of potato- and sausage-related gas.



If you want to buy new then go ahead and enjoy the luxury, but it's very hard to justify it in any practical way. The upper class homes I see tend to have clean, modest cars in the driveway, from Odysseys to Malibus. It's us young, single guys who feel the itch for a new car as a way of asserting ourselves.

ryannel2003
04-23-13, 01:21 AM
So go a little older, get an aftermarket warranty, and save $25k.

As for farts, I guarantee the guys in Munich produce plenty of potato- and sausage-related gas.



If you want to buy new then go ahead and enjoy the luxury, but it's very hard to justify it in any practical way. The upper class homes I see tend to have clean, modest cars in the driveway, from Odysseys to Malibus.

The past two cars I've owned have been far from practical so I can't argue that a new car would be any less. However at this point I'd prefer something new that I don't wrench on (though I do enjoy it) and if anything arises it's the dealerships problem and not mine. Problem is I don't like the E90 sedan. I've tried to but I don't. However the F30 is just perfect in my eyes.

I'm keeping what I have for now considering I've put so much work into it, but at 158k miles I figure I have about 40-50k more before the transmission goes out and at that point it won't be worth squat. A new 320i would sure fill the void quite nicely but I'd have a good job before I did that.

Jesda
04-23-13, 01:45 AM
E90 sedan is pretty odd looking. I could never get past those tail lights that look like pieces of pineapple from a fruit cup.

The idea behind buying used is to either turn your own wrench or get a warranty so you don't have to. A lot of aftermarket warranties, especially on European luxury cars and Cadillacs, pay for themselves many times over.


These days, the 3-series is going toward more lux than sport so I don't see the point of buying one at all. If you just want a commuter, save some coin and get something else. F30 is blah.

Koooop
04-23-13, 02:00 AM
At that point in my life I just sucked up driving an older car so I could buy a house.

thebigjimsho
04-23-13, 08:36 AM
If you plan on keeping a car a long time, like my V1, it doesn't really matter. New is better because its one owner...

talismandave
04-23-13, 09:47 AM
I have had several new cars and I would suggest when you decide to do it, do it all the way. Don't settle for what some dealer sales manager thought would sell. Order the car you want. Special ordering a new car optioned the way you want it will really make it special.

There is nothing more fun than seeing the one built for you coming off the carrier!

truckinman
04-23-13, 11:25 AM
I'll probably never buy brand new again. Mainly just bc of the huge depreciation they take the second you're off the lot. But I agree with you Dave. Nothing like seeing the exact one you want being driven from around back bc it JUST got there that day. Then getting in and driving it home with just 8 miles on the clock. That was my experience with my 06 jeep Rubicon. Definitely a great one.

CadillacLuke24
04-23-13, 07:12 PM
Buy a little old lady (with good eyesight) car. Great condition, broke in, depreciation all taken care of :D

orconn
04-23-13, 07:54 PM
The luxury of buying a brand new car can be satisfying to one sense of satisfaction. We also need someone to by "new" cars (especially the luxury cars we desire to own second hand), without those who can afford and enjoy new cars our "luxury on a budget" would be only dreams! So don't look down your nose at the guy or gal who buys new, obviously they know something you don't to be able to enjoy this luxury!

Jesda
04-23-13, 08:25 PM
So don't look down your nose at the guy or gal who buys new, obviously they know something you don't to be able to enjoy this luxury!

They know how to walk into a shiny building, talk to the shiny fellow, and sign a several pieces of paper with the smallest printed font possible.


I'm never making a loan or lease payment on an automobile ever again. There's too many opportunities out there, too many ways to make money. Rapidly depreciating assets are a particularly sad place to squander opportunity costs.


For the joy of being the first to break in a seat, break in an engine, crease a bit of leather, or pass gas in a car, consider the immediate depreciation, break it down into dollar amounts, then divide that by your earnings per hour (if, like me, you aren't paid hourly and make your own earnings then you can still break it down to 40 hours/wk) to determine how much labor was involved to grant you that benefit. For most people, you'll find yourself feeling foolish.

For others, the cost of a brand new car is no big deal in the context of their greater financial picture, but let's be real -- new cars are often purchased by people who allow their loan/lease payments to consume a sizable chunk of their monthly income.




If you look at everything you buy in life from this point of view, you may reconsider your approach to purchasing and owning material goods. [Stolen from Henry David Thoreau.]

orconn
04-23-13, 09:52 PM
I can't disagree!

77CDV
04-23-13, 10:33 PM
We do many things in life that are no logical or practical, but we do them anyway just because we want to. It's impossible to rationally justify the money I've spent restoring my 69 Fleetwood; there are many more practical, financially rewarding uses for the money. But, they wouldn't bring me the joy I feel knowing I've saved a grand old car from oblivion and made her back into what she once was.

If you find a car you really want and you feel you can afford it, indulge yourself, Ryan. Life is too short to not enjoy it. :)

Koooop
04-23-13, 11:00 PM
I have had several new cars and I would suggest when you decide to do it, do it all the way. Don't settle for what some dealer sales manager thought would sell. Order the car you want. Special ordering a new car optioned the way you want it will really make it special.

There is nothing more fun than seeing the one built for you coming off the carrier!

I tried to order a "Hot Lava" CTS-V in '04. Got me nowhere.

----------




They know how to walk into a shiny building, talk to the shiny fellow, and sign a several pieces of paper with the smallest printed font possible.

I'm never making a loan or lease payment on an automobile ever again. There's too many opportunities out there, too many ways to make money. Rapidly depreciating assets are a particularly sad place to squander opportunity costs.

For the joy of being the first to break in a seat, break in an engine, crease a bit of leather, or pass gas in a car, consider the immediate depreciation, break it down into dollar amounts, then divide that by your earnings per hour (if, like me, you aren't paid hourly and make your own earnings then you can still break it down to 40 hours/wk) to determine how much labor was involved to grant you that benefit. For most people, you'll find yourself feeling foolish.

For others, the cost of a brand new car is no big deal in the context of their greater financial picture, but let's be real -- new cars are often purchased by people who allow their loan/lease payments to consume a sizable chunk of their monthly income.

If you look at everything you buy in life from this point of view, you may reconsider your approach to purchasing and owning material goods. [Stolen from Henry David Thoreau.]

The only issue here is; at the moment late model used cars are so expensive and new cars are so negotiable that new makes more sense than a 2 year old ride with low miles.

Aron9000
04-24-13, 02:14 AM
I tried to order a "Hot Lava" CTS-V in '04. Got me nowhere.

----------



The only issue here is; at the moment late model used cars are so expensive and new cars are so negotiable that new makes more sense than a 2 year old ride with low miles.

I will agree with this on a case by case basis. On something like a new Suburban, the depreciation is horrible so you're better off buying a nice, low mile used one. On a Honda Civic, you're much better off buying new since they don't depreciate.

Koooop
04-24-13, 08:10 AM
I will agree with this on a case by case basis. On something like a new Suburban, the depreciation is horrible so you're better off buying a nice, low mile used one. On a Honda Civic, you're much better off buying new since they don't depreciate.

I have always let someone take the new car depreciation for me, but the dealers are giving away the new cars so far back of sticker and used up junk is a fortune right now. And it's hard to find a late model, low mile, well kept used car at this time.