: Would you buy an used CTS-v that was used for racing?



DavidPR
04-12-13, 01:48 PM
This is following up on my thread here: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-2013-cadillac-cts-v-general/286951-looking-buy-used-cts-v-advice.html

Just found out that my potential car previously belonged to a track resort. GM put a warranty block on it as a result. Would anyone buy that car? I probably would not, especially if financing it. I understand cars this fast are going to get tracked some time (I autocrossed mine a few times), but I would not expect a car that has potentially 10K+ track miles to last to/beyond 100K miles without serious problems.

What do you think?

USAFRET
04-12-13, 02:04 PM
Depends on the price, physical condition and your needs. If you want a pristine high performance car straight off the show room floor for you and your familiy to safety motor to gransma's house for Sunday dinner you buy new, but if your able to over look some physical wear and tear and know it's been ridden hard and put away wet, will be a weekend toy and not the family "truckster" than maybe you found a diamond in the rough.

I would guess these cars all come with fresh fluids, tires and brakes. If the price was right anything that would break you could cover out of pocket with some of the savings. So how much are they asking and what it's condition? That's the 64 million dollar question.

You need to add a third choice to your POLL, maybe something like Depends On Condition/Price

GOTTSPD
04-12-13, 02:08 PM
I've seen a bunch of those for sale and they are somewhat cheaper than their unbranded counterparts, but I probably wouldn't buy them. The fact that it doesn't have a warranty would be the reason, not because I'd be that concerned about the abuse it took. It's my impression that modern cars can take the abuse relatively well, but any repairs needed are so pricey that I just wouldn't want to have that much financial exposure on the car (as the savings on the initial purchase price isn't adequate to justify the risk).

smackdownCTSV
04-12-13, 02:09 PM
Which one?

vfaninva
04-12-13, 02:27 PM
No brainer - NO!

RaVeNous
04-12-13, 02:33 PM
Way too expensive of a car. If it was say half the price, then maybe its worth it, and by half price I mean $25,000 or less.

DavidPR
04-12-13, 02:47 PM
Which one?
This one:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2014&zip=50322&engineCode=8CLDR&sellerTypes=b&maxPrice=40000&mmt=%5BCAD%5BCTS%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=CTS&sortBy=distanceASC&makeCode1=CAD&startYear=1981&showcaseOwnerId=1378018&engineCodes=8CLDR&searchRadius=300&listingId=334181054&listingIndex=11&Log=0

Jinx
04-12-13, 02:47 PM
DavidPR, from your description of your situation in the other thread, no warranty and a six-year loan on a used car sounds like risk you can't afford. What if the transmission breaks? What sacrifices will your kids have to make to get dad's car going again, and how will that make you feel?

Maybe the better sacrifice is to hang on to the Mustang for another year, save your pennies, and then see what you can get.
Or buy a low-miles Scion xB and run that for a couple of years; that should put you in a better position.
Or if you simply must have a family performance car, look for a Pontiac G8 GT or a Charger R/T.

Figure if you're looking at 09s and 10s now, you've got three more years of CTS-Vs coming onto the market. Plenty of time.

FLTRI
04-12-13, 03:29 PM
$40K for a four year old 35,000 mile track car with no warranty?

Nope.

Same car at $30K? Maybe. $25K? Yeah, I'd roll the dice...

Edit: There's a reason GM wont warranty them. It's gonna cost a bunch when it breaks, they suspect it will, and they don't want to pay for it. So you get to...

DavidPR
04-12-13, 03:39 PM
I told the dealer that I was backing off, he threw in GAP insurance and ASC (third-party) warranty coverage. Anyone had any experience with them? I am hesitant to accept anything but GMPP.

RaVeNous
04-12-13, 03:57 PM
An aftermarket company is not going to cover a car that is raced. I would get it in writing...but still....

You can get 2009-2010 CTS-V's with 20,000-30,000 miles on them for low 40's high 30's. With higher miles, you can get them in the mid 30's. As long as you can get a GM extended warranty, and the car has a good history and isn't beat up, I see that as an viable option.

You can get 2011-12's for Low to high 40's with lower miles. With these years, you'll have some factory warranty left, and for sure be able to extend the factory warranty. For a loan out to that long of a period of payback, and as your primary driver, a warranty is a must. Not some aftermarket BS either. A GM warranty. Call around for pricing too because most likely when you buy the car they will charge 500-800 extra bucks for the same warranty. You should be able to extend the factory warranty any time before the original warranty is used up. I was lucky and found a 2011 that was first bought/built actually in 2011 mid year, since it was a coupe, so it has plenty of factory warranty left. These cars aren't as bad as many expensive cars to fix, from my own research, and seem to be fairly reliable. The problem is when you're making a large car payment on an expensive car, if its a stretch at all financially, you can't fork over money every other month to fix it - warranty is a must.

The 2013's and brand new 2012's are going to be expensive even though they are getting discounts. Just be patient you can find one.

As far as GAP insurance. My recent V purchase is the only car I've ever purchased GAP insurance on simply because its such an expensive car. It will lose value the first couple of years while I pay the interest first which means my pay off amount will reduce much more slowly. Fortunately I got a good deal and didn't get destroyed on a trade in; however, after taxes, fees, licensing, tags, downpayment etc. I'm still paying a hell of a lot of money for a car, right around current book value. If someone hit me and totalled the car, I don't want to owe the bank $3000-$4000 bucks because my car isn't worth what I owe. (granted I don't think I'd be that screwed). For the $400 bucks or whatever it was, and since my loan is out past 60 months, even at a good below 3% interest, I want that peace of mind. For sure though I HAVE to have a warranty. Mods are tempting, but in reality as my only car, 560 hp is an insane amount. I bought the car because its already heads and tails faster than about anything and avoid the need to mod. (of course that never goes away completely). What I'm saying is, the car is expensive to begin with, don't mod it, drive it with out a warranty etc, when you don't have the extra income to drop a few thousand at will to fix stuff.

As others have said, and I have said, do not get a car that is going to cause buyers remorse and stress on other bills. I don't have kids, and I live in a nice but small condo. I have a steady professional job. I spent a bit more than I should according to certain radio shows, but then again I love cars more than fancy houses, granite counter tops, and dealing with home owners associations. But for sure, with kids in the mix, the last thing you want to struggle from a locked in car payment. If this is a dream car, not just a car you want today, and its something you're going to keep, then a little financial stress is ok, as long as the family in on board so daddy can have something HE wants. There is nothing wrong with that.

Like I had said before, search and find the right car, and be willing to drive a long way to get it if you have to. If you find the right car, don't haggle over $500 bucks, just make sure its a good price, and you can afford not only to purchase it, but also to feed it and pay its taxes.....How much will your insurance go up?

DavidPR
04-12-13, 04:06 PM
Hmm, ASC is a BBB A+ company. My mechanic deals with them and says it is the easiest to work with. I would definitely get it it writing.

I am going to try having them give me a grace period where I can take the car to my trusted mechanic (best Mustang/Corvette mechanic in town) and have him take a look and OK the car. Then this whole race deal may end up working in my favor. We'll see how bulletproof those LS engines and GM powertrains are.

Edit: I checked insurance, its a little higher, but not by much. Incurance is cheap here in Iowa. Tags, however, are a different story. Almost $300 more/year versus the Mustang.

smackdownCTSV
04-12-13, 04:09 PM
Dead giveaway!

04/10/2009 5
New York
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Detroit, MI

And if $40K is your budget, you can find another '09 without a warranty block.

DavidPR
04-12-13, 04:16 PM
[QUOTE=smackdownCTSV;3283723]Dead giveaway!

04/10/2009 5
New York
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Detroit, MI
QUOTE]
Sorry, can you elaborate? I am not sure what that means.

RaVeNous
04-12-13, 04:26 PM
There is no reason to pay anywhere near 40k for that car. The miles aren't low, and the warranty is already blocked. Why is this car so great.

You're in Iowa? There are tons of cars in the Chicago, and Twin Cities that are WAY better than this car. I drove to OnAlaska from Des Moines to get mine. I could find no less than 5 cars within 500 miles of Des Moines that were high 30's to low 40's loaded. I don't get why you want this particular car. Its not even cheap. Its not even a super deal for a car in perfect condition. Its an ok price for a car in perfect condition that you want really bad - at best!

----------

Forget that car. Just looking at the add....they aren't even being honest about the condition of the car. Two owner and clean.......hahaah You mean owned by two, and driven hard by 150 people and warranty voided. Screw that dealer, not trustworthy and not a fair price. Maybe for 30k it would be worth it, because the money you save buying it can account for some repairs. Dude I paid $6,000 more for a 2011 with 15,000 miles and a coupe with every option but the sunroof.....even has the black diamond package...

Moparman4444
04-12-13, 10:07 PM
I looked at a 2011 V coupe with 5000 miles for $39000 and was real tempted. Then I researched the car and found:
1. You can't finance a race car with a branded title
2. You can't insure it with most insurance companys w/o paying a high premium
3. The tires, brakes and rotors are usually toast and need replacing thats $3000 right there
Other than that they are fine.

If the car was around $34000, I would be all in then build the hell out of the car since it won't have a warranty.

DavidPR
04-12-13, 10:22 PM
I found a thread that pretty much sums up my predicament:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-235053.html

Here is the website of Monticello Motor Club, the origin of these CTS-V's. I would expect a lot of them to be in the market right now or recently, since they just refreshed their fleet. Note that they offered their old feet CTS-V's to their employees for $37,000, if understood that correctly:

http://www.monticellomotorclub.com/programs/hpde

M&M Motor Group is the NY dealership that sells/covers for them. Interestingly, they are banned from this forums, apparently because of their bad reaction to publicity generated by an experience similar to mine.

In any case, I think I may go for it with the added perks/discount I gained from the dealer in response to this problem. I also get to take it to my mechanic for an in-depth inspection and return it if it fails. It is a risk, but I may end up with a gem.

vfaninva
04-12-13, 10:22 PM
It doesn't seem that DavidPR is paying much attention to what everyone is saying. Sounds like he has already made up his mind. Too bad. Best of luck.

mashthepedal
04-12-13, 11:47 PM
I found a thread that pretty much sums up my predicament:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-235053.html

Here is the website of Monticello Motor Club, the origin of these CTS-V's. I would expect a lot of them to be in the market right now or recently, since they just refreshed their fleet. Note that they offered their old feet CTS-V's to their employees for $37,000, if understood that correctly:

http://www.monticellomotorclub.com/programs/hpde

M&M Motor Group is the NY dealership that sells/covers for them. Interestingly, they are banned from this forums, apparently because of their bad reaction to publicity generated by an experience similar to mine.

In any case, I think I may go for it with the added perks/discount I gained from the dealer in response to this problem. I also get to take it to my mechanic for an in-depth inspection and return it if it fails. It is a risk, but I may end up with a gem.

Does the phrase "red flag" mean anything to you?

DavidPR
04-13-13, 12:25 AM
Does the phrase "red flag" mean anything to you?

Of course, that is why I am being cautious. Worst thing that can happen is that my mechanic gives me the thumbs down, and I waste a drive back and forth to KC.

I also sense a lot of hypocrisy surrounding this topic. A lot of people shun a car that has been tracked or modded like it was the plague, and then they track/mod themselves, and expect something when they end up selling or trading it in. In my mind, a car like this is made for that kind of stuff. GM blocking those warranties sounds a little too extreme. If it would work like that, for example, Subaru would void the warranty of every STi in existence (and they don't).

neuronbob
04-13-13, 12:26 AM
DavidPR, from your description of your situation in the other thread, no warranty and a six-year loan on a used car sounds like risk you can't afford. What if the transmission breaks? What sacrifices will your kids have to make to get dad's car going again, and how will that make you feel?

Maybe the better sacrifice is to hang on to the Mustang for another year, save your pennies, and then see what you can get.

Jinx's opinion here reflects much of what I think. I would 100% NOT finance a race car with a warranty block for 4-6 years, at least at that price. The fact you are considering six years of finance indicates you likely would have some difficulty paying for out of warranty repairs. And that's if a bank would even allow you to finance the car, which it might not.

If you are going to finance a car that long, there are 2009s and 2010s out there in the same price range without a warranty block. Of course, be careful as some 2009s are coming off warranty because of timing.

Good luck in your decision. IMHO, it's a no-brainer and other cars will come along if you are patient.

Jinx
04-13-13, 01:54 AM
You're not being cautious. Cautious would be recognizing the market value of a car with a warranty block. Cautious would be buying a used car with no asterisks. Cautious would be not financing a used car for six years. Cautious would be paying attention to the red flags and walking away from this car. You're behaving as though it's this particular car or nothing. Why??

And there is a huge difference between a car that an amateur has tracked a few times for a few 20-minute sessions during its life... and a car that was tracked for ALL of its 20,000 miles by people in racing school. I went to the west coast version of that school -- the cars get WORKED. Do you think that car never dropped a wheel? Never overheated the diff? Never got pushed out of shape on bad lap after bad lap and then shut off and left to bake? Sure, GMs are tough, but you don't have to be the guy who finds out how tough.

I fear at this point we're driving you toward that particular car out of spite. Please, don't feel you have to prove anything to us -- we're not trying to keep you out of our secret club, or make you jump through extra hoops for some hazing ritual. We'd like you to join the crew; we just don't want it to ruin your life. And please, don't feel you owe any loyalty to the dealer for the time he's spent trying to make this deal work for you -- you're not his friend, you're a profitable solution to his problem.

You can do better than this.

.Jinx

IBMike
04-13-13, 02:35 AM
This one:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2014&zip=50322&engineCode=8CLDR&sellerTypes=b&maxPrice=40000&mmt=%5BCAD%5BCTS%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=CTS&sortBy=distanceASC&makeCode1=CAD&startYear=1981&showcaseOwnerId=1378018&engineCodes=8CLDR&searchRadius=300&listingId=334181054&listingIndex=11&Log=0

DAMN, they put 11k miles on that thing in a month!!

$40k for an 09 with no warrenty (or even a 3rd party) seems like a horrible deal to me. As mentioned above, you can get an 11 for not much more than that. When this one flames out and the 3rd party folks don't cover it, are you prepared to come several $K out of pocket?

There are better deals out there. Don't put yourself in a bind to get this one now, a better one will come along.

96Fleetwood
04-13-13, 08:48 AM
Look at what they are going for at auction:



Vehicle Identification




Search:


Select Country:
US



Year:
2009

Select Region:
National



Make:
CADILLAC

Seasonal Adjustment:
No



Model:
CTS-V


Style:
4D SEDAN







Transactions










Date
Auction
Sale Type
Price
Odometer
Cond
Color
Eng
Trans
In Sample


01/22/13
ORLANDO
Lease
$36,000
39,663
Avg
BLACK
8G
A
Yes


02/28/13
SO CAL
Regular
$34,500
60,865
Avg
GRAY
8G
A
Yes


03/06/13
SF BAY
Regular
$31,500
38,131
Avg
BLACK
8G
A
No


03/23/13
KC
Regular
$36,400
39,139
Above
BLACK
8G
A
Yes


04/04/13
DETROIT
Regular
$37,700
39,339
Above
RED
8G
6
No


04/05/13
PA
Regular
$29,000
80,745
Below
BLACK
8G
A
Yes











Vehicle Identification




Search:


Select Country:
US



Year:
2010

Select Region:
National



Make:
CADILLAC

Seasonal Adjustment:
No



Model:
CTS-V


Style:
4D SEDAN







Transactions










Date
Auction
Sale Type
Price
Odometer
Cond
Color
Eng
Trans
In Sample


03/14/13
DFW
Lease
$39,000
39,967
Below
WHITE
8G
O
Yes


03/27/13
DALLAS
Regular
$39,800
39,989
Avg
WHITE
8G
A
Yes


04/02/13
ORLANDO
Regular
$41,800
29,117
Avg
BLACK
8G
A
Yes


04/02/13
ORLANDO
Regular
$40,400
39,989
Avg
BLACK
8G
A
Yes


04/03/13
NJ
Regular
$41,750
16,278
Avg
BLK
8G
A
Yes


04/03/13
KC
Regular
$40,700
25,547
Avg
BLACK
8G
A
Yes


04/09/13
MISS
Regular
$43,500
8,972
Above
Red
8CY
A
Yes


04/11/13
PA
Regular
$34,500
36,973
Below
BLACK
8G
A
No









That should solidify the decision not to buy it....

DavidPR
04-13-13, 09:41 AM
You guys are doing a really nice job of convincing me to go buy the other one, lol. Same price, but I would have to buy warranty and gap out of pocket.

CVP33
04-13-13, 10:28 AM
The ones I've seen are only discounted $4 to $5K. Not worth it to me.

Jims_97_ETC
04-13-13, 10:32 AM
I would add one last note. If the car has been track raced, no one is going to warranty it, IMHO. Even if you get the policy the dealer promised you and pay for it, when you put in a claim and they investigate it, they will probably refused to pay for anything remotely related to off-road racing. If in doubt, call the company that offers the warranty and ask them, or better yet send and e-mail and get their answer in writing.

DavidPR
04-13-13, 10:34 AM
More follow ups:

I called Monticello Motor Club. As long as they own the car, it is for exclusive track use. It doesn't even have a road title. I was hoping some of those miles were normal miles. Maybe not. Called ASC, they would have honored the warranty. Anyway, decided to heed your advice and not get it, especially in my situation. If someone with deeper pockets want a bargain, you can have it. I maaybe getting one that is still under factory warranty and buying an extended GMPP.

Edit: by the way, i forgot to say thanks to all of you!

Arca500
04-13-13, 02:50 PM
Thanks to DavidPR. Wow, That car was on my list to call on. I ended up buying a different one because of your post. You saved me a lot of wasted time. I have/had been looking for a very long time. I do have a line on a Crystal Red V with gray interior, AT and Recaros that I almost purchased. the only reason I didn't was because my wife didn't care for the red. If you are interested, I'll give you all the info as to where it is and what price they were willing to sell for. Considering I worked at a dealership, (in Finance, not Sales) I think it's a very good price. I had a General Manager friend of mine call them up to see what they would do on the price. The Carfax was clean too.
Email me at darca@hmhgypsum.com If you want the info. Anyway, thanks again for the posts on this car.

hulksdaddy
04-13-13, 04:01 PM
Nope

sykb47l
04-13-13, 04:12 PM
Not that it matters at this point but your bank would most likely call the note due based on the branded title.

Jims_97_ETC
04-14-13, 07:19 AM
More follow ups:

I called Monticello Motor Club. As long as they own the car, it is for exclusive track use. It doesn't even have a road title. I was hoping some of those miles were normal miles. Maybe not. Called ASC, they would have honored the warranty. Anyway, decided to heed your advice and not get it, especially in my situation. If someone with deeper pockets want a bargain, you can have it. I maaybe getting one that is still under factory warranty and buying an extended GMPP.

Edit: by the way, i forgot to say thanks to all of you!And we thank you for letting us all rest a little easier tonight. Good luck to you. I love my V and you will too.

YoungBlood_STSV
04-14-13, 01:15 PM
David your missing the point of everyone here. Yes many track the car but they do it themselves. These CTS-V's have been track dogs for people who want to come to Monticello and drive a fast car that they don't own. Experience is optional. How many times have these things gone through bad shifts, hit the rev limiter, taken an infield shortcut across the grass?

Edit: I just caught up with the thread, good choice on passing. Be patient and the car will find you.

k3silk
05-10-13, 08:52 AM
I would take a chance to buy one of those cars. I will just be driving it for fun.... Anyone have any info on where I can get one?

FLTRI
05-10-13, 12:41 PM
I would take a chance too, if it was $20K But I wouldn't when I can get one that was well cared for for the same price. There is no up side in this deal...