: 194 Miles & Quality Issues Already



gjnockie
04-11-13, 10:13 PM
Last American (GM) car was a disaster so I thought I would give it another try. In one of my earlier posts I reported on the Supercharger rattle. Today on my 2013 V wagon I noticed that the carpeting in the kick panel next to the drivers dead pedal was loose, completely un-attached and pulled away.

You know I think most of us here including me want to buy American... but man when are these assembly workers going to get the message? Just sloppy careless workmanship. I know it's not a major big deal but I never had any issues like this with the foreign cars I have owned in the past. For once I would like to buy an American car that I didn't have to take back to the dealer right away to have something fixed.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that when you buy a top of the line American built car you shouldn't have to put up with this stuff?

Thunder Gray STS
04-11-13, 10:41 PM
I'd send it to the crusher

RaVeNous
04-11-13, 10:43 PM
Yes trade it in for that Genesis Spec-R. Much better car.

DCV
04-11-13, 11:35 PM
Oh the horror of having to tack a piece of carpet back down.......Thats much worse than the HPFR going out in the BMW's, the cam chain guides of Audi's gernading, and the electrical gremlins of a Mercedes.

SoCalCTSV
04-12-13, 01:01 AM
Better call Saul!




106647

simgolfer
04-12-13, 01:47 AM
Having owned Japanese, German, and now an American car, no discernable difference in quality or lack thereof.

Kluch
04-12-13, 02:27 AM
I love American cars and love my V. All cars come with their own share of quirks both foreign and domestic

Jinx
04-12-13, 04:18 AM
Seems to me both of those issues are design flaws, not assembly failures. Don't blame the guys in the factory; they didn't choose the carpet or the way it's secured, and they didn't choose the supercharger internals.

neuronbob
04-12-13, 07:01 AM
Press accelerator. Problem solved.

Joking aside, both of my Vs had/have the carpet issue. It is a design flaw that has not been addressed in the five model years this car has been on the market.

Is it annoying? Yes and no. Solution is to tack it back yourself and avoid the dealer on this one. Upon delivery of my new wagon, I immediately pushed the carpet as far in as possible as I knew it would centrally loosen.

Not apologizing for GM, but this particular issue is like dumping a single Mariah Carey because she has a mole on her back.

Edit: "centrally" should be "eventually". Stupid iPad autocorrect.....

Mongopush
04-12-13, 07:42 AM
The motors,drive-trains, and suspension are top of the line, the interior is really same quality as a regular CTS . That is why these cars aren't a 100K plus from the factory,IMO . I do believe they are focusing on quality interior in the next gen , but these not so much . I also find it hard to believe that foreign cars are as superior and trouble free as folks let on. I see third party shops all over town specializing in nothing but "Import Auto repairs" seems to be a lucrative business.

gjnockie
04-12-13, 08:20 AM
Press accelerator. Problem solved.

Joking aside, both of my Vs had/have the carpet issue. It is a design flaw that has not been addressed in the five model years this car has been on the market.

Is it annoying? Yes and no. Solution is to tack it back yourself and avoid the dealer on this one. Upon delivery of my new wagon, I immediately pushed the carpet as far in as possible as I knew it would centrally loosen.

Not apologizing for GM, but this particular issue is like dumping a single Mariah Carey because she has a mole on her back.

Thanks for your intelligent answer unlike some of the other adolescents that have replied to this post.

I think I will get some heavy duty velcro and try to re-attach it that way.

austin
04-12-13, 08:26 AM
I would have them look at it at your next oil change or earliest connivance. It's completely covered under warranty. :)

Random84
04-12-13, 08:57 AM
Tangent: I've always wondered why the import cars get such high marks on their interiors? IMHO, nicer leather does not account for a monoblock front dash with the only aesthetic accents being a huge air conditioning vent as "style."

Everytime someone posts an interior shot of a high end import, I always think "Really, that's the kind of interior we all compare ourselves to?"

/rant

dqw1
04-12-13, 10:26 AM
Tangent: I've always wondered why the import cars get such high marks on their interiors? IMHO, nicer leather does not account for a monoblock front dash with the only aesthetic accents being a huge air conditioning vent as "style."

Everytime someone posts an interior shot of a high end import, I always think "Really, that's the kind of interior we all compare ourselves to?"


/rant
I love the interiors of the Audi's and everything else (Euporean) is just blah.

RippyPartsDept
04-12-13, 11:30 AM
http://acarisnotarefrigerator.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/2013_bmw_m5_int.jpg?w=630&h=463

http://www.sub5zero.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2010/03/2010_audi_s4_interior.jpg

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/09_ctsv_interior.jpg

IGraf
04-12-13, 11:33 AM
Thanks for your intelligent answer unlike some of the other adolescents that have replied to this post.

I think I will get some heavy duty velcro and try to re-attach it that way.

We had the exact same problem with our 2013 Vagon, on both sides, driver and passenger. Dealer indicated this is a common issue and ordered replacement carpets. No issues since they installed the new carpets.

RaVeNous
04-12-13, 12:05 PM
Did you trade up for that Kia yet? This is a much higher quality car.

I spilled some monster energy drink this morning on my center console, and the black plastic just melted off. What was left behind looked like wet cardboard. I can't believe how cheap these Cadillacs are made. Entry level BMW are so solid you could drive at 45 on cobblestones and not even feel it!

USAFRET
04-12-13, 12:05 PM
All three look yummy, seems the grass is always greener or we should stop listening to pretentious, self-indulging know nothings that consider themselves self appointed experts and that their pronouncements actually matter, who we should ignore and use our own eye's and senses god gave us.

Jinx
04-12-13, 12:12 PM
I spilled some monster energy drink this morning on my center console, and the black plastic just melted off. What was left behind looked like wet cardboard.

Can't tell if serious
or just joking about the potency of Monster

Chrispy
04-12-13, 12:27 PM
Last American (GM) car was a disaster so I thought I would give it another try. In one of my earlier posts I reported on the Supercharger rattle. Today on my 2013 V wagon I noticed that the carpeting in the kick panel next to the drivers dead pedal was loose, completely un-attached and pulled away.

You know I think most of us here including me want to buy American... but man when are these assembly workers going to get the message? Just sloppy careless workmanship. I know it's not a major big deal but I never had any issues like this with the foreign cars I have owned in the past. For once I would like to buy an American car that I didn't have to take back to the dealer right away to have something fixed.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that when you buy a top of the line American built car you shouldn't have to put up with this stuff?

My wagon was the same with the carpet and I can't get it back in easily. I'll mess with it some more though :)

It personally doesn't bother me enough to go to the dealer though...

Trapspeed
04-12-13, 03:27 PM
+1 to Rippy! Good stuff! Let me tell you...I'll take a solid, proven powertrain over a million carpet issues any day of the week. The engine and trannys in these things are relatively speaking bulletproof. Next.

thebigjimsho
04-13-13, 02:13 AM
Thanks for your intelligent answer unlike some of the other adolescents that have replied to this post.

I think I will get some heavy duty velcro and try to re-attach it that way.

I've been meaning to try this myself. I know its frustrating. Still, these cars are amazing for the price...

MacBuster
04-13-13, 02:29 AM
I love my V, and traded a 5-series in to get it.

But let's be honest, the interior build quality of my almost five year old 2008 535 was MILES (and MILES!) ahead of my 2012 V. The interior quality simply isn't comparable. I knew that going in (many time Caddy owner), so I generally just chuckle at the rocking seats, the rattles, the carpet, the cheap pleastics, and the fact I can push on panels and get flex.

I just mash the throttle and go (and my wallet thanks BMW for not bringing the M5 wagon to North American, and the E63 wagon for being too expensive).

RaVeNous
04-13-13, 03:02 AM
I love my V, and traded a 5-series in to get it.

But let's be honest, the interior build quality of my almost five year old 2008 535 was MILES (and MILES!) ahead of my 2012 V. The interior quality simply isn't comparable. I knew that going in (many time Caddy owner), so I generally just chuckle at the rocking seats, the rattles, the carpet, the cheap pleastics, and the fact I can push on panels and get flex.

I just mash the throttle and go (and my wallet thanks BMW for not bringing the M5 wagon to North American, and the E63 wagon for being too expensive).


BMW fan boy are we. BMW are overpriced. They are nice cars but sorry they aren't built better inside or out. I've been in a couple 335i fully loaded and they were very loose. Expensive material, not good fitment, and very plain. I've also driven a couple 7 series and they were better, very quiet, but by no means heads and tails above late model Cadillac. I could practically pull the interior door panels off the 335i's right off. Sorry I simply disagree. Every car has its issues, as does every manufacturer. Please save up and buy the M5...

MacBuster
04-13-13, 04:20 AM
Of course I am a BMW fanboy. BMW makes excellent cars. The V is an excellent car. Only someone with an inferiority complex would see these facts as mutually exclusive.

I have spent little time in 3-series. I have no doubt they are designed for a price point to a degree (in many countries 3-series are common, and in no way considered premium at lower trim levels). The 5-series, which is more of a competitor to the CTS has an interior that is built out of far superior materials, and manufactured to a much higher standard. The difference is not subtle enough to even make this a disputable fact. I spent a number of months driving the 5-series and the V back to back on a daily basis.

The V has many other things going for it, which make it a compelling choice over the 5 series. For me: more fun, less chance of catastrophic failure from leaking sunroofs, over-engineered mechanicals and technology, availability of a wagon.

It pays to be objective.

gjnockie
04-13-13, 08:56 AM
Guess I need to chime in on this since I started this thread. The car I traded in for my new V wagon was a 2012 BMW 750i. It was a very good car but boring. I bought the V because I wanted something a little more exciting to drive everyday and a car that I could haul some stuff in when needed. I have owned many BMW's and yes they do break too. Believe me I have had my share of problems with them. One of them was so bad BMW replaced the car.

I really like the Caddy so far and I think that the build quality is pretty good. I just don't like to have to bring a new car in for annoying little things like the carpet when it appears to me that it is an issue that GM should have fixed by now since others here are experiencing the same problem.

thebigjimsho
04-13-13, 09:32 AM
Guess I need to chime in on this since I started this thread. The car I traded in for my new V wagon was a 2012 BMW 750i. It was a very good car but boring. I bought the V because I wanted something a little more exciting to drive everyday and a car that I could haul some stuff in when needed. I have owned many BMW's and yes they do break too. Believe me I have had my share of problems with them. One of them was so bad BMW replaced the car.

I really like the Caddy so far and I think that the build quality is pretty good. I just don't like to have to bring a new car in for annoying little things like the carpet when it appears to me that it is an issue that GM should have fixed by now since others here are experiencing the same problem.

Agreed.

Gman1023
04-13-13, 10:31 AM
On the interior, the discussion is about quality not design. I think everyone here would agree that the V interior looks as nice or better than the competition. The difference is in materials quality mostly, and partially in engineering. For example, take the headliner. In a V you have the same headliner you get in a Chevy Sonic which costs 1/5 as much. The Germans would never do that to you. On the other hand, the V costs about $30,000 less than any of its German competition and Cadillac doesn't charge you absurd amounts for options on top of that. Plus Caddy gives you a bulletproof and very easily/inexpensively modified drivetrain.

The bottom line is that it is a tradeoff and everyone here made the decision in favor of the V. It's a great value and a truly awesome car that doesn't come with all of the expenses of a European performance car.

JFJr
04-13-13, 11:10 AM
I've never understood the complaints about the headliner and translucent sun shade. I like both of them, but have to admit that I spend most of my time keeping my eyes straight ahead and watching out for the slower and/or erratic drivers in front of me. I like being able to get by them quickly; it's a safety thing.

Jud :lildevil:

hulksdaddy
04-13-13, 12:53 PM
I have no idea what my headliner looks like.

Thunder Gray STS
04-13-13, 01:21 PM
The V is what it is. It's a $38000 car that costs $70000 because of what's in front of the firewall, not behind it. With the exception of the optional seats and a few superfluous trim pieces everything is the same thing you find in the base CTS on the inside.

hulksdaddy
04-13-13, 01:34 PM
The V is what it is. It's a $38000 car that costs $70000 because of what's in front of the firewall, not behind it. With the exception of the optional seats and a few superfluous trim pieces everything is the same thing you find in the base CTS on the inside.

Seems you're forgetting the chassis tuning, wheels, tires, aero etc. The V is NOT just a base CTS with a bigger motor.

Thunder Gray STS
04-13-13, 01:35 PM
Seems you're forgetting the chassis tuning, wheels, tires, aero etc. The V is NOT just a base CTS with a bigger motor.

We weren't talking about that, we were talking about interior trim.

hulksdaddy
04-13-13, 01:41 PM
The V is what it is. It's a $38000 car that costs $70000 because of what's in front of the firewall, not behind it. With the exception of the optional seats and a few superfluous trim pieces everything is the same thing you find in the base CTS on the inside.


We weren't talking about that, we were talking about interior trim.

I was responding to the bolded above. I agree with the interior comment.

RaVeNous
04-13-13, 03:04 PM
And the interior of the base CTS with interior upgrades...is as good as any Benz or BMW. Sorry it is as long as we are talking Gen 2 on up.

Higher end American cars have mostly caught up. Jag and Benz shown below are a step up but I wouldn't say heads and tails above. The BMW, is really nothing special. All of the cars below have vastly different price ranges.

CTS-V

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/ArchEtech/642f669726adb0b8f50575e1953a50a0.jpg

CTS

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/ArchEtech/d4c7ad02a4f2c06ebc6285941ddb3aed.jpg

2013 Shelby

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/ArchEtech/79d780983d22bcb10ea572c7611cc398.jpg

550i 2012

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/ArchEtech/d59e061d02330f2e0d623e88fe1ee5c7.jpg

2012 S7

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/ArchEtech/81a45b66b52ae1ed488f14b1db02f6ba.jpg

2012 CLS550


http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/ArchEtech/67a7ae65e72a3d5cf53436563b01b3b7.jpg

2012 XJ ( jags are my current favorite )

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/ArchEtech/686f473d417feaa94359527f3d3fa689.jpg

2012 ZL1

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii159/ArchEtech/4fb4b3fe764fded9f915ed23d69b41be.jpg

mashthepedal
04-13-13, 03:37 PM
BMW fan boy are we. BMW are overpriced. They are nice cars but sorry they aren't built better inside or out. I've been in a couple 335i fully loaded and they were very loose. Expensive material, not good fitment, and very plain. I've also driven a couple 7 series and they were better, very quiet, but by no means heads and tails above late model Cadillac. I could practically pull the interior door panels off the 335i's right off. Sorry I simply disagree. Every car has its issues, as does every manufacturer. Please save up and buy the M5...

The V is a phenomenal performance car, but you're dreaming if you think the fit and finish is as good as the BMW. I owned an M3 for 5 years and never had a single issue. No leaks, no noise that shouldn't have been there, the carpets stayed put, the seats were rigid. But, I sold it because you don't want to own one out of warranty, one electronic gremlin and you're toast. You can debate whether they're overpriced, but that's a different argument.
When I went for my first test drive with the V, neither me nor the salesman could move the driver seat forward, the latch was so stiff.
I've had 6 Corvettes, unbelievable performance for the dollar, you just suck up the headaches.
I promise you if you go on the Bimmer forums and complain that the carpet is lifting on your 70K car, you don't get a bunch of angry/sarcastic comments telling you to buy a Caddy.

RaVeNous
04-13-13, 03:41 PM
I doubt on a Bimmer forum you're going to get any advice to buy anything but a bimmer. I don't agree. BMW is nothing special.

gjnockie
04-13-13, 04:19 PM
The V is a phenomenal performance car, but you're dreaming if you think the fit and finish is as good as the BMW. I owned an M3 for 5 years and never had a single issue. No leaks, no noise that shouldn't have been there, the carpets stayed put, the seats were rigid. But, I sold it because you don't want to own one out of warranty, one electronic gremlin and you're toast. You can debate whether they're overpriced, but that's a different argument.
When I went for my first test drive with the V, neither me nor the salesman could move the driver seat forward, the latch was so stiff.
I've had 6 Corvettes, unbelievable performance for the dollar, you just suck up the headaches.
I promise you if you go on the Bimmer forums and complain that the carpet is lifting on your 70K car, you don't get a bunch of angry/sarcastic comments telling you to buy a Caddy.

Thank you!

Totally agree with everything you said!

RaVeNous
04-13-13, 04:45 PM
I agree ^^^ you should go buy a new 5 series and enjoy.

mashthepedal
04-13-13, 05:29 PM
I doubt on a Bimmer forum you're going to get any advice to buy anything but a bimmer. I don't agree. BMW is nothing special.

Of course you're right about not being advised to buy something else. My point was that import buyers don't settle for subpar fit and finish and we shouldn't either.

thebigjimsho
04-13-13, 05:49 PM
I've never understood the complaints about the headliner and translucent sun shade. I like both of them, but have to admit that I spend most of my time keeping my eyes straight ahead and watching out for the slower and/or erratic drivers in front of me. I like being able to get by them quickly; it's a safety thing.

Jud :lildevil:

Yeah, to me its just a headliner. I never notice it. That and my sunshade is always retracted anyway. When I do look at them I wonder what all the fuss is about...

RaVeNous
04-13-13, 06:07 PM
Of course you're right about not being advised to buy something else. My point was that import buyers don't settle for subpar fit and finish and we shouldn't either.

I don't believe we are settling for subpar. I think that's the point your missing. Buying a V isn't settling. Every car I've ever owned or sat in has had imperfections.

Ok get an M6. That interior in better than a V! ;)

JFJr
04-13-13, 07:21 PM
It's like comparing a Rolex to one of the Casio's that sync with the atomic clock. The Rolex is fine jewelry and the quartz model (no longer in production) is very accurate, but it can't come close to competing with the Casio on accuracy, durability (maybe) and price. I have both so I'm qualified to make the comparison. The "V" is the Casio (with good materials); the BMW M5 is the Rolex. So we get down to preferences, money and snobbery. You are what you drive!

Jud

MacBuster
04-13-13, 08:40 PM
Ok get an M6. That interior in better than a V! ;)

finally you are acknowledging what is obvious to everyone but you. :)

Gman1023
04-14-13, 12:51 AM
It's like comparing a Rolex to one of the Casio's that sync with the atomic clock. The Rolex is fine jewelry and the quartz model (no longer in production) is very accurate, but it can't come close to competing with the Casio on accuracy, durability (maybe) and price. I have both so I'm qualified to make the comparison. The "V" is the Casio (with good materials); the BMW M5 is the Rolex. So we get down to preferences, money and snobbery. You are what you drive!

Jud

Good analogy. The V is a much better value. If you're one to care about the little bits and pieces on the interior you're free to overpay for them, but for most of us performance is a higher priority.

MacBuster
04-14-13, 02:47 AM
Good analogy. The V is a much better value. If you're one to care about the little bits and pieces on the interior you're free to overpay for them, but for most of us performance is a higher priority.

I agree. But to simply not acknowledge where the V is better, and where a BMW is better is just pointless and lacking in objectivity...you are clearly not doing this, but ravenous is.

RaVeNous
04-14-13, 03:52 AM
I hear there is a special financing deal right now on the new accord coupe?

Gman1023
04-14-13, 02:17 PM
I agree. But to simply not acknowledge where the V is better, and where a BMW is better is just pointless and lacking in objectivity...you are clearly not doing this, but ravenous is.

I agree. That is basically my whole reason for posting to this thread. Look, this is a V forum. We are all here because we appreciate and drive (or will drive) a V2 and feel that it is a wise purchase and/or a good value for the money. That said, it is ignorant to assert that there is no difference in the quality of materials and attention to detail in a V interior versus its German competition. No car is perfect and each has its strong points and its quirks. I don't need to rehash them all, but I think it is fair to say that the law of diminishing returns is exemplified in products like the M5 and E63 when compared to a V.

It is not a matter of settling, it is a matter of priorities. If you want the best interiors available today in a luxury sedan, buy a new Jaguar. You and your service department will become very chummy. If you want a top notch performance coupe/sedan/wagon that is also a legitimate luxury car and prefer driving to servicing, then I would say that you're in the right place.

gjnockie
04-14-13, 05:18 PM
I agree. That is basically my whole reason for posting to this thread. Look, this is a V forum. We are all here because we appreciate and drive (or will drive) a V2 and feel that it is a wise purchase and/or a good value for the money. That said, it is ignorant to assert that there is no difference in the quality of materials and attention to detail in a V interior versus its German competition. No car is perfect and each has its strong points and its quirks. I don't need to rehash them all, but I think it is fair to say that the law of diminishing returns is exemplified in products like the M5 and E63 when compared to a V.

It is not a matter of settling, it is a matter of priorities. If you want the best interiors available today in a luxury sedan, buy a new Jaguar. You and your service department will become very chummy. If you want a top notch performance coupe/sedan/wagon that is also a legitimate luxury car and prefer driving to servicing, then I would say that you're in the right place.

Well Said!

Stopped by the Caddy dealer to show them my carpet. While there I saw a brand new black V sedan they had out front. Asked one of the salesman for the keys and low and behold the carpet on the driver's side kick panel was flapping in the breeze just like my car! Definitely a design flaw, but I can't believe that after a couple of years they just didn't fix it. No excuse in my mind, it just should not be for GM's top car brand.

Anyway the service guy told me they have tried double sided tape to fix it but it didn't last. I told him about my idea of using HD Velcro for carpet and he thought it was worth a try. He also said if it was his car he would just leave it alone. I tend to agree, so that's what I am going to do.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the car and it's something I can live with. I just feel that Cadillac should be embarrassed to have built such a fantastic car and not be able to engineer a solution to keep a piece of carpet in place in a $72K car.

Little things do count. This is one of the reasons why they filed for Bankruptcy in the first place IMHO.

For those of you who keep saying I should trade it in for a Kia or a Honda I say it's really not funny or cute. Grow up!

RaVeNous
04-14-13, 05:27 PM
Why don't you grow up and spend some time doing something besides complaining about American build quality, and go back to sitting in a nice BMW that you will be much more at home in. While your old man slippers brush against the premium grade carpet, while sitting in your car as it lies dead because of a $3000 fuel management module, or transmission control device, you'll have plenty of time to post on a Bimmer forum about how nice that interior is.

On a side note, I'm mostly just instigating some good ribbing. If you can't handle that, perhaps go to the gym, so your swollen ankles from your grandpa socks won't rub the carpet of that cheap Cadillac carpet!

gjnockie
04-14-13, 05:58 PM
Why don't you grow up and spend some time doing something besides complaining about American build quality, and go back to sitting in a nice BMW that you will be much more at home in. While your old man slippers brush against the premium grade carpet, while sitting in your car as it lies dead because of a $3000 fuel management module, or transmission control device, you'll have plenty of time to post on a Bimmer forum about how nice that interior is.

On a side note, I'm mostly just instigating some good ribbing. If you can't handle that, perhaps go to the gym, so your swollen ankles from your grandpa socks won't rub the carpet of that cheap Cadillac carpet!

You’re a real wit sonny boy.

RaVeNous
04-14-13, 06:50 PM
You joined June of 2005 and have 27 posts? 3/4 of those are praising BMW. gjnockie are you a Behemian plant? I demand an investigation!

JFJr
04-14-13, 08:56 PM
You’re a real wit sonny boy.

Leave these guys alone. It's obvious you're just here to cause trouble. You don't like the "V's" or find minor faults, we could care less. Get lost and don't let the door hit you in the rear as you exit.

Jud

Chrispy
04-14-13, 09:14 PM
I have no idea what my headliner looks like.

LOL same here...I had to go out into the garage just now, sit in the car and look up. :)

It doesn't bother me? What's wrong with it?

JKG
04-14-13, 10:28 PM
Funny you said that about the headliner! I dont have an opinion one way or the other about this whole post, but when I was considering buying a V Wagon (which I just did), I found a Top Gear video online where they reviewed the wagon. They said how wonderful the car was, but they complained about the "cheap" headliner. So the other day, I was out in my Corvette which I have owned for 5 years, and I looked up for the first time to look at the headliner. I guess it is not very fancy. Who the heck cares about that? I couldn't describe the quality or appearance of the headlner in any of my cars. All I really want out of a headliner is that it does not fall down while I am driving! (My detomaso pantera can NOT manage to achieve that goal - at least not until I replaced it.)

Random84
04-14-13, 10:48 PM
Sometimes people need shit to bitch about - and auto mag types need something to ramble on about. I'm guessing "headliner" falls into that category. If you find yourself watching a video where someone is ragging on about the headliner - it must mean the car is pretty awesome, otherwise they'd be talking about how much the acceleration sucks, the cornering is awful, the interior is rotten and smells, it's horribly over-priced, etc.

Kind of like the CTS-V reviews. :D

Now, about the gas cap....

DCV
04-14-13, 11:45 PM
The carpet in my 09 sedan is just fine, it's not pulling up or attacking my Piolti's. I hear the Equis has great carpet.

Gman1023
04-15-13, 12:18 AM
Funny you said that about the headliner! I dont have an opinion one way or the other about this whole post, but when I was considering buying a V Wagon (which I just did), I found a Top Gear video online where they reviewed the wagon. They said how wonderful the car was, but they complained about the "cheap" headliner. So the other day, I was out in my Corvette which I have owned for 5 years, and I looked up for the first time to look at the headliner. I guess it is not very fancy. Who the heck cares about that? I couldn't describe the quality or appearance of the headlner in any of my cars. All I really want out of a headliner is that it does not fall down while I am driving! (My detomaso pantera can NOT manage to achieve that goal - at least not until I replaced it.)

It is a minor detail. Most $70k cars have a suede or alacantra headliner. It shows attention to detail. However, it isn't important and it is also fair to point out that most $70k cars don't have 550+ hp or run a quarter mile in 12 seconds...

RaVeNous
04-15-13, 01:02 AM
Sometimes people need shit to bitch about - and auto mag types need something to ramble on about. I'm guessing "headliner" falls into that category. If you find yourself watching a video where someone is ragging on about the headliner - it must mean the car is pretty awesome, otherwise they'd be talking about how much the acceleration sucks, the cornering is awful, the interior is rotten and smells, it's horribly over-priced, etc.

Kind of like the CTS-V reviews. :D

Now, about the gas cap....

That's actually a good point.

Typical review:

"The CTS-V is the quickest and fastest of the bunch. It has precise steering, smooth acceleration, and a ride that wont knock out your grandpa's dentures. We liked the well thought out interior, and the Racarro seats. The seats maintain that sporty feel, while holding you in without being too stiff. But the headliner ruined it for us, and the cheap plastic console bezel, so the BMW is the clear winner out of the three...."

VMoose
04-15-13, 09:13 AM
How much does it cost to put in a suede headliner? Thoughts on getting it done aftermarket?

DCV
04-15-13, 09:16 AM
If the cars mags pick something over BMW (like a Caddy), we all know they get froze out by them and don't get cars to drive anymore. I think they picked the new M5 over the V just because of the Nav or something.....so yes, its up to the car mags and the guys that write for them to find "something"....to pick a brand new Euro car over a 4 year old AmeriKan design.

cdog533
04-15-13, 01:38 PM
Little things do count. This is one of the reasons why they filed for Bankruptcy in the first place IMHO.


I think the obscene wage and benefit demands of the UAW is why they filed for BK. Not because of poor car quality. However, I do think the Cimmaron kinda sucked.

The UAW, along with the government, turned GM into a giant health insurance/retirement machine that incidentally makes cars...

Jinx
04-15-13, 01:53 PM
I think the obscene wage and benefit demands of the UAW is why they filed for BK. Not because of poor car quality. However, I do think the Cimmaron kinda sucked.

The UAW, along with the government, turned GM into a giant health insurance/retirement machine that incidentally makes cars...

How does that compare to Germany, I wonder?

RaVeNous
04-15-13, 02:01 PM
Are you F'n kidding me? The reason GM is bankrupt, as are bascailly every other American car maker is retirement pensions.

You're telling me a company can afford to pay someone not working $50,000+ per year. Give me a freaking break. Its that garbage that is bankrupting the goverment as well.

The world needs something to hate on the US. It used to be the cars. We never got over that stigma even though today our cars are as good as anyones. I don't know about you, but I don't remember Datsun, and some of the early toyota cars NOT be piece of shit cars just like AMC, Eagle, Fords etc at the time. Even the BMW in the 1970s what pretty much a tin can. All cars have come a long way. Car manufacturers in other countries don't have to pay insane wages and benifits, and with the lopsided trade agreements have an edge. I am not an import hater however, the foreign makers with factories on US soil employ a lot of people and make good cars.

thebigjimsho
04-17-13, 10:25 AM
The buying public is about 10 years behind on actual quality of product. A lot of crap in the 90s and that influenced the buying public even though the 2000s were markedly improvement...

DCV
04-17-13, 12:13 PM
Car manufacturers in other countries don't have to pay insane wages and benifits

Actually they do....Audi, BMW, and Mercedes pay quite well with benefits, retirements, and vacations. But they train them starting in high school on a career path for the auto industry. Plus they care about the community and the people, in the US hedge fund types only care about themselves and the Boards that suck up to them.

MacBuster
04-17-13, 01:07 PM
Actually they do....Audi, BMW, and Mercedes pay quite well with benefits, retirements, and vacations. But they train them starting in high school on a career path for the auto industry. Plus they care about the community and the people, in the US hedge fund types only care about themselves and the Boards that suck up to them.

The German worker also has pride in his job, and his company. The UAW and members, despite the mewlings of the workers, has no such ingrained work ethic and pride.

Jinx
04-17-13, 02:08 PM
Prejudice much?

Merc88
04-17-13, 03:15 PM
Having owned Japanese, German, and now an American car, no discernable difference in quality or lack thereof.

Totally agree....

RaVeNous
04-17-13, 04:52 PM
I don't want my car company to care about its community. I want them to make money. I want to live in a free market, not a socialist utopia where the assets and public image are owned and determined by the goverment. Europe is not a good example, they are not exactly in a finacial paradise right now either.

I agree, all auto companies have their good and bad cars.

CavemanB52
04-17-13, 11:16 PM
I have had very little luck with all my new top end cars. My VW Toureg was one of the worst cars I have ever owned. So far I like my V coupe the best. And by pictures alone on this forum the caddy might not have the better materials but it sure does look the best IMHO.

My buddy has an M6. We have raced and rode in each other's car. The caddy is faster and handles better. Both of us feel the interiors are both awsome. Two door for two door the caddy has a better ride and more useful room however. Quality for quality in the interior is a very minor point considering the the $30, 000 difference in price. Thus the Caddy wins by $30, 000.

breaker05
04-18-13, 11:31 AM
I just got a brand new V last weekend and love it! However, I am incredibly disappointed at the lack of quality in this car compared to my prior cars, G37S and a 335i.

First, my rear windows do no go Auto Up. I tried programming them as the book and forums say with no avail yet they go Auto Down no problem. My right rear door does not open from the inside even after switching the child lock off. I even turned it to the on position in case something was reversed, still didn't work. Rain sensing wipers do not work even though what I read says they should. And finally there is a major clicking noise coming from the front driver wheel area which is very concerning.

I have an appointment with the dealer first thing tomorrow morning about all of this, but I have to say, my first american car has been a handful of problems and it's what lots of people tell me that I shouldn't buy american because of the quality. That said, when I step on the gas, I love this car and everything else is a moot point! I guess that's why you buy these cars, for the fun of driving and not a luxury car.

Jinx
04-18-13, 02:41 PM
Sorry to hear about your initial frustrations.

I notice the manual says (emphasis added) "if the vehicle battery has been recharged, disconnected or not working, the front power windows will need to be reprogrammed for the express-up feature to work." Are the rear windows definitely supposed to have express-up? I know the previous section doesn't say "front" but it seems odd that only the front windows would need to be programmed.

Trapspeed
04-18-13, 10:46 PM
Are the rear windows definitely supposed to have express-up?

Nope. Not to my knowledge. Mine don't auto-up, just fronts.

thebigjimsho
04-22-13, 09:53 AM
Rear windows DO NOT auto-up...

breaker05
04-23-13, 12:49 PM
Thanks for the clarification about the remote windows up, and after visiting the dealer, they said the same. On my other issues, the front clicking noise from the wheels as I am sure you all know have a TSB for the lug nuts which fixes that clicking. A new relay switch had to be put in the car for the rainsense wipers to work, not sure why the wipers themselves worked though if there was a bad relay. And my rear door not opening from the inside is now fixed too but they didn't tell me what they did.

All in all, I am happy with the service and now that my car is like a brand new one I could be happier! It's just too bad they don't have guidelines when the rear backup camera is on.

gjnockie
04-23-13, 09:53 PM
400 mile update! Have my V wagon for about a month now.

It's been over a week since I used "Industrial Velcro" to secure the drivers side carpet on the kick panel. I am happy to report it has not budged. Could be a permanent fix?

Another issue I now have which is really strange is that when I have the A/C on there is a slight rattle coming from the dash. The thing that is really weird is that it only makes the noise when I make right turns! I wonder if it could be one of the flaps in the A/C system. When it's off.. no noise at all.

As I have said before I like the car. But no way is it put together like some of the Euro brands.

I know others here will not agree but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

RapidRob
04-23-13, 10:59 PM
- ^^^ - And what do those, "Euro brands", in equivalent performance brackets cost, versus CTS V's??

Hmmmm !?

Rob

gjnockie
04-23-13, 11:42 PM
- ^^^ - And what do those, "Euro brands", in equivalent performance brackets cost, versus CTS V's??

Hmmmm !?

Rob

IMHO that is not the point. The point is that a Cadillac which is supposed to be "the standard of the world" should not creak or rattle.

I have been in Korean rental cars that cost far less that don't creak or rattle. Never mind how fast they are.

To me the joy of performance is diminished by the poor quality of materials, sloppy assembly or the cost cutting engineering of the car. 72K is not a cheap car in my book.

Do a forum search for rattles, supercharger rattles, loose carpet, seats rocking etc and see what you come up with. I am not the only one complaining here!

Jinx
04-24-13, 01:16 AM
You're right. I did a search and found lots of threads on hyundai-forums about rattles, carpet separation issue, floor mat issues, even issues with the driver's seat rocking back and forth when braking or accelerating. :)

Every car has issues -- and every model from every manufacturer has "common" (i.e. multiple people with the same) issues. And the CTS-V doesn't have it so bad -- Google porsche ims and see what comes up.

But yes, Cadillac could do better. Their people seem attentive but unable to fix most of the "common" gremlins. They're just unfixable problems, though not for lack of labor and parts swaps. The wheels just click. The UltraView just creaks. The seats just rock. The carpet's loose in one particular spot. They designed it, then built it, and we're stuck with it. I think a lot of this is Old GM thinking -- they had their binders full of esoteric engineering standards, the car meets all those standards, and there's no money for fixes, just a wishlist for the next generation.

Cadillac owners should definitely make their disappointment known to Cadillac, and should definitely ask for fixes. And it's true, if Cadillac lets too many annoyances go unfixed compared to its rivals their reputation will suffer and they'll lose sales. (I wonder how many folks Google for CTS issues, read threads here for an hour or so, and decide to buy something else.)

But if anyone is finding themselves awash in negative emotional energy over the car's flaws, they can't blame Cadillac for that. As pointed out, the CTS-V experience is well-documented here.

Everyone please point me to this post if I ever bitch about rocking Recaros.

gjnockie
04-24-13, 08:30 AM
You're right. I did a search and found lots of threads on hyundai-forums about rattles, carpet separation issue, floor mat issues, even issues with the driver's seat rocking back and forth when braking or accelerating. :)

Every car has issues -- and every model from every manufacturer has "common" (i.e. multiple people with the same) issues. And the CTS-V doesn't have it so bad -- Google porsche ims and see what comes up.

But yes, Cadillac could do better. Their people seem attentive but unable to fix most of the "common" gremlins. They're just unfixable problems, though not for lack of labor and parts swaps. The wheels just click. The UltraView just creaks. The seats just rock. The carpet's loose in one particular spot. They designed it, then built it, and we're stuck with it. I think a lot of this is Old GM thinking -- they had their binders full of esoteric engineering standards, the car meets all those standards, and there's no money for fixes, just a wishlist for the next generation.

Cadillac owners should definitely make their disappointment known to Cadillac, and should definitely ask for fixes. And it's true, if Cadillac lets too many annoyances go unfixed compared to its rivals their reputation will suffer and they'll lose sales. (I wonder how many folks Google for CTS issues, read threads here for an hour or so, and decide to buy something else.)

But if anyone is finding themselves awash in negative emotional energy over the car's flaws, they can't blame Cadillac for that. As pointed out, the CTS-V experience is well-documented here.

Everyone please point me to this post if I ever bitch about rocking Recaros.

Well said!

Agreed... but Cadillac needs to be better than everyone else now. Same old, same old doesn't cut it anymore.

Jinx
04-24-13, 01:36 PM
Cadillac ranked above BMW and Audi in the 2011 JDP IQS, and in 2012 ranked fourth behind only Lexus, Jaguar, and Porsche. That's not same old, same old, is it?

In the 2013 JDP Dependability study, which measures component failures in the past 12 months for 2010 models, Cadillac CTS is third in "Entry Premium Cars" behind Lexus ES and Lincoln MKZ. Unfortunately this study's results are harder to read to draw direct comparisons and broken up into lots of categories, no doubt on purpose so that more manufacturers can find something nice to brag about. Still, Cadillac got a trohpy in this study, one of 50, and BMW didn't. (M-B got one, Audi got two, Lexus got three.)

Also, beware of samples of one, especially if they're brief drives (rentals), or if they're not your own and gathered in friendly conversation. You don't notice everything wrong in one day, and people don't always talk about problems their cars have as long as they like them.

gjnockie
04-24-13, 03:12 PM
Jinx

I understand what you are saying. Don't get me wrong I like the car. Maybe it's just bad luck, but every time I buy an American car I always have these pesky little issues. Not big issues just annoying issues. I have owned a lot of cars and for some unknown reason I never have these type of problems with foreign cars. For once I would like to buy a domestic car and not have to go back to the dealer right away to get something fixed.

As an example, my car now has a little over 400 miles on it. When it sits in the sun for a few hours and I drive home with the A/C on every time I make a right turn the dash rattles. When I turn off the A/C I have no noise at all.

Now I ask you... wouldn't you be annoyed about something like that?

Jinx
04-24-13, 05:52 PM
Yes. And Cadillac HQ needs to hear your tale told in one shot like this. If Katie doesn't arrive soon to submit, perhaps PM her to get her attention. All Cadillac owners thank you.