: Need help with a new rear end noise.



Andringa
04-09-13, 04:06 PM
I've had my 2004 V for 3+ years so I'm familiar with most of the driveline parade clunk discussions. Recently I've gotten a new rear end clunk that I can't isolate.

-Bought in 2009 and it had it's fair share of clunks.
-Put in Creative Steel motor mounts, trans mount, diff bushing and the car felt way better.
-May 2012 I had the Trans output seal and Diff Pinion seal both replaced.
-May 2012 I put in Spectre Werkes cradle bushings at about the same time as the seals getting fixed.

Everything was great for a while. The Spectre Werkes bushing inserts definitely transmit more noise, but no immediate unexpected noises.
Over the next couple months the car developed a rather annoying clunk that sounds a lot like when my diff bushing was shot.
It happens mostly while shifting, or use the engine to slow you down in gear and then get back on the throttle.
Most easily reproducible @ 38mph in 3rd gear while lightly going on/off throttle.
The other easy way to get it to make noise is to coast around 25mph with the clutch disengaged and then while in 2nd gear rev the engine up to about 3500-4000rpm and abruptly let the clutch out a bit. You don't have to fulling engage the clutch, just playing with it at the engagement point with repeatedly reproduce the noise.

-All suspension is tight, no vibrations or clunks from a vehicle dynamics standpoint.
-Engine mounts look good.
-Trans mount looks good.
-The CS diff bushing has a bit of play but I can't believe that it is the source.
-The driveshaft carrier bearing has a bit of movement, but is intact.
-With 9 years and 79k miles I suppose that it could be the stock clutch and dual mass flywheel combo, but the clunk is definitely from the rear end and makes me think that is unlikely.

From my understanding, replacing the pinion seal involved backing off the pinion nut, replacing the seal and then reapplying and torquing the pinion nut. It is also my understanding that the torque on the pinion nut controls preload in the diff and if it comes loose it can allow slop in the diff. (I don't know if the terminology that I am using is correct, somebody let me know if I'm miss stating something.)

My best guess at the moment is that the pinion nut needs to be retorqued, but I'm looking for suggestions before I pay the shop to re-torque the pinion nut.

----------

Follow up question, has anyone ever had a clutch/flywheel caused noise that showed up all the way back at the rear end?

odla
04-09-13, 05:52 PM
Just shooting this out there. Swaybar bushing?

FuzzyLogic
04-09-13, 05:59 PM
Just shooting this out there. Swaybar bushing?

I thought exactly the same thing.

Andringa
04-09-13, 11:14 PM
I'm confused how swaybar bushings would come in to play with this type of straight line load?

I actually have a separate noise happening over bumps up front that I think may be shock or swaybar related.

rand49er
04-10-13, 02:31 PM
I'm confused how swaybar bushings would come in to play with this type of straight line load? ...Agreed. Unless the body is trying to lean as in cornering, there's no torque applied to the anti-sway bar. If the car pitches (front up, rear squats or vice versa as in throttling up and down as described), then the anti-sway bars rotate inside both bushings in the same direction and by roughly the same amount, but again, could this be the source of the "clunk?" A little squirt of silicone spray (especially the rear anti-sway bar bushings) might determine if it is. Just a thought, anyway.

FuzzyLogic
04-10-13, 04:05 PM
Reading comprehension fail over here.

Based on what you're describing, it sounds like your Creative Steel differential bushing is going bad. I'm having a similar issue with my rear end, which I'm also going to chalk up to a Creative Steel bushing. The leading theory on the problem is that the metal sleeve on the CS bushing has been crushed or deformed by drivetrain-related stresses. Since I'm kind of leading the charge on this issue having already purchased a Revshift differential bushing to replace it, I'll take it upon myself to put up a post if indeed that fixes it. Might be a couple of weeks, however. Final exam (master's) is coming up.

Andringa
04-10-13, 04:40 PM
I think you are on to something Fuzzy.

I realized that I could reproduce the noise while stationary if I held the brakes and partially engaged the clutch. Had the bright idea to stop at a quick lube and had a guy shoot a video for me.

This is stationary with the brakes on. Car in 1st gear, with partial engagement of the clutch. There is way more movement than I expected based on my visual inspection and pushing on the diff by hand. Obviously with full throttle shifts that thing is moving all over the place.

I have 35k and 3+ years on the creative Steel bushing. Looks like it might be time to replace it again.

Fuzzy, why did you go with the RevShift this time?

Doh, posts about videos are better with the video.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cgryXIKoZII&feature=plcp
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cgryXIKoZII

FuzzyLogic
04-10-13, 05:08 PM
I went with Revshift because they make a better product, pure and simple. Also, Creative Steel doesn't have a 95A option.

Andringa
04-10-13, 06:16 PM
I went with Revshift because they make a better product, pure and simple. Also, Creative Steel doesn't have a 95A option.

Not that I don't believe you, but what makes you expect that the RevShift products are superior to the Creative Steel equivalent. Just trying to make an informed decision, there were no bad revdiews of the CS parts when I bought mine in 2009.

Do you have or are you planning on getting the CS diff block to use with your RevShift diff bushing?

FuzzyLogic
04-11-13, 12:30 AM
Not that I don't believe you, but what makes you expect that the RevShift products are superior to the Creative Steel equivalent. Just trying to make an informed decision, there were no bad revdiews of the CS parts when I bought mine in 2009.

Do you have or are you planning on getting the CS diff block to use with your RevShift diff bushing?

I installed the Creative Steel differential block and bushing at the same time. For about 6-8 months, it did a good job of reducing driveline clunk. Then, clunk started to creep back in. If the Creative Steel differential bushing is damaged when I remove it, you can be certain that I'll post up pictures of the carnage.

Andringa
04-11-13, 11:08 AM
Thanks for the follow up. I spent some time last night and read that entire RevShift Cradle bushing thread. I didn't realize how many bushings they were producing for the V and how positive the feedback was.

Sounds like I need to order a RevShift diff bushing. Any idea how hard the Creative Steel bushing is going to be to get out? Hoping I dont' need to rent their tool to press it out like the OEM bushing.

FuzzyLogic
04-11-13, 11:33 AM
I don't know about you, but I only needed the rental tool to press out the OEM bushing. The Creative Steel bushing simply slid in, since I chilled the bushing (and by extension, its metal sleeve) in the freezer overnight in preparation for installation. I doubt it'll be much harder to get out, especially if it's damaged.

Most Revshift bushings are comprised of three pieces: two poly halves and a steel or aluminum core. To install, you press the core into one of the bushing halves, hold both halves up to the receiving component (in this case, the differential), and thread a long bolt with two fat washers and a nut through the center. When you tighten down on the nut, it'll suck the bushing halves together. Done!

Andringa
04-11-13, 11:47 AM
Thanks again for the comments Fuzzy, I remember the OEM bushing being a pain in the ass to get out. I believe we used the tool to push the new CS bushing in, but I had not put mine in the freezer.

Yeah, from what I've seen the RevShift bushings go in relatively easy after removing the OEM pieces.

KaMaSuTrA
04-16-13, 12:51 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cgryXIKoZII

Wow, that's an insane amount of movement in that video, I have not seen or heard of a CS diff bushing going out like that. I believe I'm also experiencing a similar issue with my car and I already have a Revshift 95A diff bushing on the way to hopefully help remedy the situation.

I've posted on another forum and in addition to the stock dual mass flywheel and diff bushing going out, it's been said that the stock driveshaft can also contribute to clunking. The carrier bearing is also intact on mine. If the clunk does not go away, that will be the next step for my situation.

Andringa
04-16-13, 10:09 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cgryXIKoZII

Wow, that's an insane amount of movement in that video, I have not seen or heard of a CS diff bushing going out like that. I believe I'm also experiencing a similar issue with my car and I already have a Revshift 95A diff bushing on the way to hopefully help remedy the situation.

I've posted on another forum and in addition to the stock dual mass flywheel and diff bushing going out, it's been said that the stock driveshaft can also contribute to clunking. The carrier bearing is also intact on mine. If the clunk does not go away, that will be the next step for my situation.

Yeah, I think I'll be ordering a 95A RevShift diff bushing pretty soon here. The driveshaft carrier bushing is probably contributing to the problem, but at $900 to replace the driveshaft I think that will be one of the last things I replace.

It would be awesome if RevShift could get some sort of repair setup where you ship them your driveshaft and they put a new carrier bushing in it. Possibly a core exchange or something so that cars aren't down for weeks at a time.

KaMaSuTrA
04-16-13, 11:27 AM
Yeah, I think I'll be ordering a 95A RevShift diff bushing pretty soon here. The driveshaft carrier bushing is probably contributing to the problem, but at $900 to replace the driveshaft I think that will be one of the last things I replace.

It would be awesome if RevShift could get some sort of repair setup where you ship them your driveshaft and they put a new carrier bushing in it. Possibly a core exchange or something so that cars aren't down for weeks at a time.

Judging from that video, I say you order it ASAP. The longer you wait, the more damage the rest of the driveline suffers.

I've already replaced stock clutch/flywheel, this will be the 2nd time I replace the diff bushing now. Unfortunately the last step for me is the driveshaft. I get the feeling that the new diff bushing will help subdue the clunk but won't fix it entirely.

As much as I don't want to spend that much money, part of the problem is the stock driveshaft itself regardless if you manage to replace the bearing or not. The consensus is that it's a bastardized sloppy limp P.O.S and it will fail again. These stock parts were not designed for longevity on the V1, they were just made to get the car moving.

Stock Motor Mounts ∞ Stock Transmission Mount ∞ Stock Dual Mass Flywheel ∞ Stock Driveshaft ∞ Stock Differential Bushing ∞ Stock Rear Cradle Bushings ∞ Stock Axle Bars = CLUNK & WHEEL HOP

Eliminating all of these weak links will help reduce the nonsense. It's probably not going to be 100% perfect, but it's going to be the best thing short of getting a 9" or 8.8 conversion.

If all else fails, guess it's time to get a V2 haha!