: Bob Lutz's Blog



c5 rv
01-08-05, 10:10 AM
Interesting...

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/

majax
01-08-05, 01:53 PM
Invite Bob here! if you are a member at those forums

Msilva954
01-08-05, 05:14 PM
The most overratted man in the history of the automobile industry or the press is giving him too much credit......I dont know which one....I like the man for what he represents and his ideas but I believe he has more to show and If thats him behind what they are doing to saturn then he is doing good......but Buick is another story...but well see.

majax
01-08-05, 05:31 PM
The most overratted man in the history of the automobile industry or the press is giving him too much credit......I dont know which one....I like the man for what he represents and his ideas but I believe he has more to show and If thats him behind what they are doing to saturn then he is doing good......but Buick is another story...but well see.

What about Buick?

Msilva954
01-08-05, 08:34 PM
What about Buick?

It has no identity....its the Mercury of GM....and the way things are looking it really isnt looking to achieve one either.

majax
01-08-05, 10:26 PM
I kinda agree but thats not Bobs fault, that's advertisement.

c5 rv
01-08-05, 10:48 PM
I disagree. Oldsmobile was the brand GM thought had lost its identity. I think Buick has a fairly clear identity as an upscale or near-premium brand as compared to:

Chevrolet: Value transportation
Cadillac: Premium vehicles
Saturn: Import alternative
Pontiac: Ugly cars that are supposed to be sporty.

Msilva954
01-08-05, 10:50 PM
Why get a Buick when you can get a Chevy;Pontiac w/options for cheaper...???

To me mechanically it represents nothing.....just excess chassis and engines that need somewhere to go....so they divert them to buick.....

majax
01-08-05, 10:58 PM
I really like Buick and the new Lacrosse.

What does Buick have and Pontiac/chev dont?

quitetuning
more power
better style
same if not better reliability
etc

They are a lot better than Mercury, At least Buick does not have a Chevy Impala with a buick badge on it.(500/Montego)

If anything Buicks are Cadillacs of about 7 years ago. My uncles 2000 Park Ave Ultra Supercharged has parts that are in my '93 Deville.

Buick is the Lexus fighter
Pontiac disapoints me, marginal performance
I'm okay with Chevrolet.

Msilva954
01-08-05, 11:08 PM
QuietTuning is a joke.......

Lacrosse is being marketed as a totally new vehicle when it has a Chassis that is about 10 yrs old.....thats not very lexus rivaling to me...

Buick Minivan.....pshhh.....something you will never see from lexus

Rainer......Oldsmobile Bravada with different grill V8 would have come to Olds if they didnt leave

Reandeazvous..........???....nuff said

Park Ave would be decent if it had a V8 but then the base Deville would almost seem purposeless....

The whole brand confuses me.....even with the high tech Caddy V6 it is taking almost 8 sec to get to 60....I know its not a race car but that old chassis is really holding it back and the wood in that car is horrible...ive seen it up close and its like the stuff you can buy in rolls that you put over your sub box in the trunk.

O and the Lasabre....isnt that an Impala???

majax
01-08-05, 11:44 PM
I will say this, the current LaSabre has the crapiest:rolleyes2 20k plus car interior ever!

Yeah the wood does not look to real. The LaCrosses chassis is fine and yes the Rendevous is kinda weird. I think the Buick van was an okay Idea, something to take on the high end Town and Country. I sat in the La Crosse and the seats were nice and I think it is a tasteful car. I was suprised how small it was outside but roomy inside. My only complaint was the plastic chrome door handles.

I do though agree Buick has a ways to go, their new Lucerne should be good improvement.

Msilva954
01-08-05, 11:53 PM
Yea they have a way to go....but if they get on track they can make it....I believe they are going to be the more Lincoln competitor then Lexus though, which isnt a bad thing.

Once cadillacs line is complete they can probably push more into buick.....but ill tell you..GMs linup of Car makers can confuse me sometimes......now saturn is going upscale?? Complete 180 LOL.......but hey they know whats best....or do they?

majax
01-09-05, 12:01 AM
Yea they have a way to go....but if they get on track they can make it....I believe they are going to be the more Lincoln competitor then Lexus though, which isnt a bad thing.

Once cadillacs line is complete they can probably push more into buick.....but ill tell you..GMs linup of Car makers can confuse me sometimes......now saturn is going upscale?? Complete 180 LOL.......but hey they know whats best....or do they?The current Saturns are incredibly cheap(in a bad way kinda) cars and now GM I think is remembering that they founded the company to compete with Honda. Well currently they are cheaper than Hondas. Now, the new saturn, they will probably have their sport coupe, their van, their 20k range family sedan and an economy sedan.

GMs lineup in my opinion is so undefined except for Cadillac and the other high enders. It bugs me how I can buy a Chevy at the one dealer or get the same car with a Pontiac badge at the same dealer. Saturn of course is not allowed to merge with Chevy dealers and stuff I think. I have never seen a Saturn/Chevrolet/etc. Only a Saturn of Spokane.

Lincoln is confusing me right now. I think Ford should just put that money into Jaguar and Volvo. Oh, and start making Jags and Volvs in America. I am glad they are American owned and I would buy a Jag.

davesdeville
01-09-05, 03:13 AM
GM should never had made Saturn. They should've brought Chevrolet up to Honda's reliabilty and left it at that. Instead they made the Citation, Chevette, Celebrity... and PsOS Saturns. :annoyed:

Jesda
01-09-05, 06:44 AM
I only want Saturn to disappear because I hate Roger Smith.

majax
01-09-05, 04:06 PM
GM should never had made Saturn. They should've brought Chevrolet up to Honda's reliabilty and left it at that. Instead they made the Citation, Chevette, Celebrity... and PsOS Saturns. :annoyed:

I agree but I think they wanted to have a different name for their Honda competitors.

Doesnt a woman run Saturn? I knowSaturns use to be okay but now they aren't so much.

Roger Smith?

davesdeville
01-09-05, 07:20 PM
No, Saturns did not used to be OK. I mean the SC started with a 75hp I4. Seventy five frickin horsepower. Even though the cars weighed about 2200, that's not enough. I know a guy with a 96 SC1, even with the 100hp SOHC motor it's still slow and my 86 2.2 Omni 5spd beats it.

Oh yeah there was a hail storm south of here recently and the hail MADE HOLES in the body panels! :helpless:

Saturn's gotten a bit better recently but they still suck bad.

Msilva954
01-09-05, 07:35 PM
Remember when their selling point was dentless panels??? Now they are moving away from that it seems with all the badge engineering.....

IMO....that dentless junk was the best and only thing the company ever had going for it.

CoupeDevilleRob
01-09-05, 09:17 PM
If you ask me all the GM divisions lost a big part of their identity when they reorganized the company into Chevy-Pontiac-Canada and Buick-Olds-Cadillac. You had Pontiacs with Buick motors, Cadillacs with Olds motors and not to mention that each division had identical versions of each platform, with only the emblems to distinguish them.

You could probably get rid of Pontiac and Buick and leave GM as: Cadillac-Luxury, Saturn-Economy, Chevy-Standard cars and truck and the Corvette.

ben72227
01-09-05, 10:03 PM
ford at least has a more defined line of subdivisions:

Ford - traditional domestic
Lincoln - American Luxary
Mercury - .... this is the exception; mercury is the one ford should scrap
Mazda - the bold and fun to drive japanese car (Miata anyone?)
Volvo - the european car that has its own "survivor's club" because of its legendary safety record
Jaguar - British Luxary
LandRover - British, upscale vehicles that you can use on the safari:rolleyes: or just for everyday use i guess
Aston Martin - British, upscale Luxary Racing cars.

GM on the other hand:

Chevy - traditional domestic
Pontiac - ...It's just kinda there, all of the cars (except maybe the solstice) are unoriginal, outdated, or just bad (Aztec anyone?). The (new) GTO is a joke - a 400 HP engine in a car that looks like a Chevy Cavalier. Come on now! Take some cues from Ford and what they did to the mustang, pontiac!
Buick - ...I suppose this one has SOME meaning to it, maybe its for the people who want luxary but are ashamed to drive a Cadillac for fear of being mistaken for old people??? Nothin really great here though.
Cadillac - American Luxary
GMC - Trucks, but they're just rebadged Chevys, so...
Oldsmobile - GONE, but they were the cars for old people (j/k)
Saturn - Import fighter, the "friendly" car company
Hummer - need I say more?
Saab - GM's european division

Msilva954
01-09-05, 10:35 PM
Biggest problem with GM is how the division intertwine(sp) like said above......it doesnt really confuse as much as it dillutes each brands identity even more.