: Let's talk boats and diesels



Sinister Angel
01-07-05, 10:46 PM
I almost forgot I had these pictures!

As some of you may or may not know, I'm in the engine program at the Great Lakes Maritime Academy. More or less, I learn how to work on everything mechanical related to freighters. I thought you folks might be interested in seeing some of the images off the boat I was on this entire summer doing my seaproject. I can also give you some stats about the boat as well. Hell, if you want, I can post my seaproject assignments, which cover details of how different things work aboard the boat.

This is a spare clutch. Since we have a CP wheel, we don't need to have two clutches per engine.
http://www.spiderweb.cc/dump/Fred%20White%20Engine%20Room/Clutch.JPG

This is one of three CAT D398B diesel gen sets.
http://www.spiderweb.cc/dump/Fred%20White%20Engine%20Room/Generator.JPG

This is our port main engine. One of two 20-cylinder GM EMD 645-E7s that move the ship. 3600 HP at 900 RPM. The 645 stands for the displacement of EACH cylinder in cubic inches ;a
http://www.spiderweb.cc/dump/Fred%20White%20Engine%20Room/PortMainEngineSideView.JPG

Ahh yes, the reduction gear and intakes for the engines :) 7.481 (er, something like that, I'll check later). That is the shaft you see running in the centerline :) Roughly 313k ft-lbs of torque at the shaft ;f
http://www.spiderweb.cc/dump/Fred%20White%20Engine%20Room/RedGearAndIntake.JPG

And last, but definately not least, the steering gear.
http://www.spiderweb.cc/dump/Fred%20White%20Engine%20Room/SteeringGear.JPG


Hope you enjoyed. I'll try to answer questions if anyone has them.

RBraczyk
01-07-05, 11:03 PM
How fast?

Sinister Angel
01-07-05, 11:09 PM
~16 MPH. We've actually had her loaded going that fast.

Msilva954
01-07-05, 11:11 PM
Dont get any tickets...

Whats the life of those engines???

Sinister Angel
01-07-05, 11:12 PM
Uhh, they do an overhaul ~ every 4 years or so. So I don't know. I heard 95000 hours, but I'm not sure.

RBraczyk
01-07-05, 11:15 PM
That must be one hell of an overhaul.

Sinister Angel
01-07-05, 11:19 PM
That must be one hell of an overhaul.

Ehh, they usually contract that out. Change the bearings, powerpacks, etc.

I'll see if I can dig up an EMD manual on the net.

Night Wolf
01-08-05, 02:16 AM
damn... I love engines, and looking at those are amazing!

645ci EACH cylinder?... 20 cylinders...

.... that is hard to imagine... picture a Caddy 500.... times 20.... and that is still 145ci/engine off.... baically 1 cylinder of that engine has 145ci more displacement then a whole 8.2l Caddy 500....

wow....

those CAT generators are similar to the engines used in the Freight Liners and such, right?

guy down the street has his own trucking company, got a CAT turbo diesel generator.. Gov't auction only has like 15 hours on it... said it is big enough to run a snall town.... that is one big diesel....

I thought the thread was first about an Olds 350 diesel in a 1981 DeVille :)

Stoneage_Caddy
01-08-05, 02:30 AM
i heard the EMD GM Diesel is similar to the old 2 stroke detroits , are these 2 stroke ?


I love big diesels , my favorite was the 8v92tta (8 cylanders , 92 cubes per cylander,twin turbos feeding the blower)

davesdeville
01-08-05, 03:10 AM
One day I'll buy one and put it in a school bus or something.

Sinister Angel
01-08-05, 03:37 AM
Stonage: Yes, those are indeed 2-stroke engines. They kinda eat oil too ;)

Night Wolf: Those D398B gensets are rated at 837.5 KVA each. Yeah, they might be able to run a portion of a city :) They are a bit bigger than freightliner engines :D

majax
01-08-05, 03:59 AM
I thought all that mostly was nuclear now days. Well the really big ships at least.

Sinister Angel
01-08-05, 04:02 AM
There are nuclear vessels used for Merchant Marine operations.

chris203
01-08-05, 04:35 AM
Do you have a picture of the boat?

Sinister Angel
01-08-05, 04:51 AM
Here are some pictures

http://www.boatnerd.com/pictures/fleet/frwhite.htm

D148L0
01-08-05, 07:05 PM
damn... I love engines, and looking at those are amazing!

If you haven't, watch Das Boot, a movie about a WWII U-boat and it's crew. The whole movie it's great, and the U-boat engines... well, I could spend days watching them at work.

Stoneage_Caddy
01-08-05, 07:23 PM
hell yah , exposed valvetrains are really poetry in motion

Stoneage_Caddy
01-08-05, 07:30 PM
sinsiter ,
since your doing the engine thing ill ask some more deatailed questions like :

do they also have the blowers like detroits ?

What size valves does it have (if it has the exaust valve/intake port 2 stroke detroit design)

Also how do they work the fuel injection ? Is it a pump to injectors that open at certain psi or is it a integral Injector/Pump combo over each piston ran by the valvetrain (once again if like detroit)

edit: It looks like it may have a dry sump oiling system ..does it ?

Sorry , always wondered how the EMD comapred to the detorit as far as design ...last time i saw one i was 12 and was touring a coast guard vessel ...at the time i knew nothing of diesel so i didnt know what to look at ....at that time i was just in awe at the size of each cylander head...

Sinister Angel
01-08-05, 08:15 PM
sinsiter ,
since your doing the engine thing ill ask some more deatailed questions like :

do they also have the blowers like detroits ?

What size valves does it have (if it has the exaust valve/intake port 2 stroke detroit design)

Also how do they work the fuel injection ? Is it a pump to injectors that open at certain psi or is it a integral Injector/Pump combo over each piston ran by the valvetrain (once again if like detroit)

edit: It looks like it may have a dry sump oiling system ..does it ?

Sorry , always wondered how the EMD comapred to the detorit as far as design ...last time i saw one i was 12 and was touring a coast guard vessel ...at the time i knew nothing of diesel so i didnt know what to look at ....at that time i was just in awe at the size of each cylander head...

There are EMDs that have root-style blowers, but the ones on my boat were turbocharged.

Uhh, I'm not sure what you mean by dry sump. The sump holds ~400 gallons :)

I'm not too familiar with the detroits, but as for the EMD exhaust valves (4 per head), the valve face/head/whatever you feel like calling it (the manual calls it head) is 2.5" in dia. Two cam lobes per cylinder, with a bridge connected to each rocker arm pushing down 2 valves.

As for the fuel injection, fuel is delivered to the injectors @ around 35-40 PSI. This is constant supply. There is then a cam lobe for each cylinder which presses or "pops" the injector (they call it a 'unit injector') at the correct time. It's not that bad really.

The CATs on teh other hand do use plunger pumps, which put out the high pressure fuel which causes the injectors to go off.

Give me some time and I'll throw up my sea projects.

Sinister Angel
01-08-05, 08:35 PM
Here are the assignments that I had to turn into the Academy. Enjoy :)

http://www.spiderweb.cc/SeaProject/

Stoneage_Caddy
01-08-05, 08:37 PM
WOW , they are ALOT like the detroiter ....

I acutally prefer the unit type injector over the plunger pump .....Lots of the other people around me hated it as they feared the injector when it came time to reassemble the engine .....I hated plunger pumps more , didnt seem to have the reliability of the unit injector

Detriot also called it a unit injector , thanks for reminding me , i couldnt remeber the name of it , just rememberd how it worked off the valve train

The dry sump question came from what appered to be a massive oil tank infront of the engine , i figure that the engine's case doesnt hold the oil supply like a normal engine would ....like the old Ford 427 "side oiler"

Sinister Angel
01-08-05, 09:01 PM
WOW , they are ALOT like the detroiter ....

I acutally prefer the unit type injector over the plunger pump .....Lots of the other people around me hated it as they feared the injector when it came time to reassemble the engine .....I hated plunger pumps more , didnt seem to have the reliability of the unit injector

Detriot also called it a unit injector , thanks for reminding me , i couldnt remeber the name of it , just rememberd how it worked off the valve train

The dry sump question came from what appered to be a massive oil tank infront of the engine , i figure that the engine's case doesnt hold the oil supply like a normal engine would ....like the old Ford 427 "side oiler"

Ahhh, yeah, it's not a dry sump setup. I also like the unit injector setup. I don't see why people would worry about it. Hell, I've dissassembled and reasseembled one. It's not too bad.

Stoneage_Caddy
01-08-05, 09:51 PM
ok here is a odd question .....what does it use for a starter ? The biggest detroits either had massive electric motors or a starter powered by compressed air ...

Sinister Angel
01-08-05, 10:00 PM
It's a pneumatic start system

Information about it is in the Sea Projects :)

Sinister Angel
01-08-05, 10:07 PM
I should get this license plate (and It's available too!)

http://sosntsl01.sos.state.mi.us/plates/papstep2.asp?plateType=STANDARD&plateID=blue&hndCap=false&t1=V&t2=2&t3=0&t5=E&t6=M&t7=D&pcPlt=PPI;V20EMD&manPlate=V20%20EMD&vtype=&ptrn=A99AAA

Stoneage_Caddy
01-08-05, 10:12 PM
the mother of all plates !!!!

i need ot read that projects thing

Sinister Angel
01-08-05, 10:21 PM
Yeah, it has some interesting stuff.

Stoneage_Caddy
01-08-05, 10:50 PM
rolling air filter ? i wanna see that thing

you brought back memorys on that "timing unit injectors" there ....that was the day that seperated me from everyone ....my engine was the only one that ran

c5 rv
01-08-05, 11:09 PM
Very cool. My brother, may he rest in peace, served two hitches in the Navy, graduated from the MEBA school, and eventually sailed as either a 1st or chief engineer on salties. He said he preferred to sail as 1st to earn overtime and do less paperwork. He loved his career and basically worked 6 months and had 6 months vacation per year. He was looking forward to retiring in his early 50s and getting married when his smoking and probably asbestos exposure caught up with him.

Congrats on your career choice. Let's hope Great Lakes shipping doesn't have another big downturn.

Three other websites to look at besides boatnerd:

Watch freighters go through the Soo locks: https://webcam.crrel.usace.army.mil/soo/

Daily pic of ships that pass by Port Huron: http://www.jclary.com/river_cam/rivercam.htm

Live, controllable camera on the Detroit river with ship passages: http://www.glmi.org/webcam/

Sinister Angel
01-09-05, 12:20 AM
What part of Michigan you from?

c5 rv
01-09-05, 09:31 AM
I live land-locked near Howell, but grew up watching freighters in Huron, Ohio. My two favorites were the Cliffs Victory and Joseph H. Thompson. One of my dad's friends worked for the ore docks as a dozer operator. He'd get lowered into the hold and push the taconite around.

Sinister Angel
01-09-05, 02:35 PM
I live land-locked near Howell, but grew up watching freighters in Huron, Ohio. My two favorites were the Cliffs Victory and Joseph H. Thompson. One of my dad's friends worked for the ore docks as a dozer operator. He'd get lowered into the hold and push the taconite around.

I was actually down in Ohio quite a bit - Cleveland specifically, and alot of runs up the Cuyahoga. Here is a list of all the places I went while on the Fred White. http://www.spiderweb.cc/SeaProject/Trips.html


Wow, talk about irony though living in Howell. I actually started dating a girl in Brighton after I got off the boat this summer. She works at the Howell staples store in the copy center.
Well, I did go out with her until she cheated on me.

Sinister Angel
01-11-05, 10:39 AM
rolling air filter ? i wanna see that thing

you brought back memorys on that "timing unit injectors" there ....that was the day that seperated me from everyone ....my engine was the only one that ran

http://www.airexco.com/autoroll.gif