: 5 minuets with a pry bar and some punk totaled my '96 Brougham for $3 in stainless



Sticks
03-24-13, 08:26 AM
Went out to run some errands and found that some punk had pried off 3/4 of the rocker panels, and trashed the FL fender trying to get the little one off.

Insurance totaled it :mad: . Repair is upwards of $4k (can't just get the rocker panels according to the body shop, have to buy 3 doors and 3 fenders).

My only satisfaction is that whoever did it got cut pretty bad, blood all over the doors, and fenders.

The insurance vehicle evaluator has put a value on the car @ $5400.

60k miles
Crack in the airplane landing strip of a dash
Vinyl top needs replaced
Everything else is in great shape in and out, and works. No rust, dings, dents, scratches, stains...

This is the full option package. If it was available as an option, Grampa bought it.

IMO this is low. The only matches to the car I could find started at $7900 and went as high as $25k with an average in the $10k range.

Colorado law is fix or replace if an agreeable dollar figure can not be reached between the insurance and the owner.

Am I off base with thinking the insurance value is low? They could not find a match at any dealerships, so had to go with a sub grade and added $250 for each option that was not on their sample. My search was for an exact match only. Local Market Value is a joke on a vehicle that was discontinued in '96. There are none within 500 miles, let alone their expanded 300.

outsider
03-24-13, 08:52 AM
i think your body shop screwed you on the estimate. You can get just the stainless...why would they need to replace all the doors and fenders?

csbuckn
03-24-13, 10:24 AM
I think insurance put it a little low but these cars seem overpriced also.

MoistCabbage
03-24-13, 11:11 AM
i think your body shop screwed you on the estimate. You can get just the stainless...why would they need to replace all the doors and fenders?:yeah: What the hell are they talking about?!?!

The Ape Man
03-24-13, 11:17 AM
I've been down a similar road with insurance companies. If you take the time to document all similar available replacement vehicles it's possible you will be able to prove your point. I had to do this with my '94 Mercedes W-140 coupe when some jackass ran into it because he lost his patience with some bluehairs. Went from on offer of $3,300.00 to $8,000.00 about 3 years back. The great part is they sold the car back to me for 125 bux. The bad part is it cost $1,400.00 just in shipping to get the same exact model '95 car I replaced it with. Paid $8,300.00 for that car and took a big chance having it sent here from Kali-fornia without checking it personally.

I'd ask for someone you can speak with and let them know this is not just an old clunker. Then check all online ads and start piling up paper.

Best of luck.

Alscad56
03-24-13, 11:38 AM
Those rocker moldings can be bought seperately. They sell them all over Ebay.
Damn! It sucks to have your car vandalized by some dumb-ass punk!

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/Mouldings-Trim-/33654/i.html?_sac=1&_fln=1&_catref=1&_vxp=mtr&_pgn=2&_skc=200&rt=nc&_nkw=1994+cadillac+fleetwood&_trksid=m194&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCHX:SRCH

Sticks
03-24-13, 02:09 PM
I looked through your link and only found 3 rocker panel sections, 2 were damaged.

Cadillacboy
03-24-13, 04:11 PM
Sorry to hear about that , may be you should try
www.thefleetwoodguy.com

www.gmotors.com

www.crowncadillacolds.com

What a dumbass ******* , I better stop typing otherwise I am about to say harsher words

talismandave
03-24-13, 06:16 PM
You might try talking to some recyclers in the area and offer a reward for their return. They may be unusable, but may yield a link to the person who did it.

He could then receive an "informational/motivational" talk.:bouncer:

jayoldschool
03-24-13, 08:54 PM
Rocker panels are out there. You just need to find a guy parting a car...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/jayoldschool/DSC_0001-2.jpg

oldcaddybuyer
03-24-13, 10:22 PM
This is why guns should not be banned. :gun:

The Ape Man
03-24-13, 10:39 PM
Rocker panels are out there. You just need to find a guy parting a car...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/jayoldschool/DSC_0001-2.jpg


Thanks Jay. I didn't know a chair was part of that car.

Mark 78 Coupe
03-24-13, 11:35 PM
Could you post the pictures and the estimate your insurance company is working from? Based on what you are saying, it makes no sense at all. Something is missing in the way you are telling the story, or something. I am a retired body shop manager and insurance appraiser (did both over the course of 25 years) so I am sure I could find a way to help if you would like.

jayoldschool
03-24-13, 11:48 PM
Thanks Jay. I didn't know a chair was part of that car.

Two chairs! Buy one, get one free!

brougham
03-24-13, 11:49 PM
The best way to up the insurance price is to find comparable cars within a reasonable distance from where you are. I've seen prices all over the place for them but I would guess that with your mileage it should be around the 8-9,000 range.

You should be able to get the trim replaced no problem. It sounds like the body shop called up one or two yards that wouldn't separate from the panels.

brougham
03-24-13, 11:54 PM
Rocker panels are out there. You just need to find a guy parting a car...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/jayoldschool/DSC_0001-2.jpg

That looks slightly familiar:
I have other pics but you get the idea....

Sticks
03-25-13, 06:18 AM
I've been down a similar road with insurance companies. If you take the time to document all similar available replacement vehicles it's possible you will be able to prove your point. I had to do this with my '94 Mercedes W-140 coupe when some jackass ran into it because he lost his patience with some bluehairs. Went from on offer of $3,300.00 to $8,000.00 about 3 years back....

Yeah, been there done that back in '98 with my '89 Goldwing when I was T-boned in a hit and run. Initial ins offer was like $3k. I laughed at them and told then you can't even touch one in Denver for less than $9k for a base model, and mine was the SE with another $2k in upgrades. A month later I got a call from them and they upped it to $5.5k and went through the same story. Another week and I get a call from the dept manager asking why my claim is still open. I told them I am still waiting for them to find another '89 with ~50k miles and the upgrades listed to replace it with since all comparable Goldwings I could find were upwards of $12k. 2 days later they came back at $11.5k.


You might try talking to some recyclers in the area and offer a reward for their return. They may be unusable, but may yield a link to the person who did it.

He could then receive an "informational/motivational" talk.:bouncer:

Too many scrap yards in Denver, let alone surrounding areas. These guys come in with overloaded pickup loads and my experience is they just dump it in what ever pile. Copper is the only thing scrap yards track.


Could you post the pictures and the estimate your insurance company is working from? Based on what you are saying, it makes no sense at all. Something is missing in the way you are telling the story, or something. I am a retired body shop manager and insurance appraiser (did both over the course of 25 years) so I am sure I could find a way to help if you would like.

I just need to get a realistic valuation on the car. Last year of the model, and the flagship of the brand. Finding them with low mileage and in good to great condition is few and far between. USAA is hard set on what their outsourced company that did the evaluation for the value. I sent them 7 that I could find, 2 exact matches (color and all) with mileage +/- 10k. Still waiting for them to reply. It galls me that this car has been insured with them since '95 when Grandpa bought it. Same family, different generation writing the checks.


The best way to up the insurance price is to find comparable cars within a reasonable distance from where you are. I've seen prices all over the place for them but I would guess that with your mileage it should be around the 8-9,000 range.

You should be able to get the trim replaced no problem. It sounds like the body shop called up one or two yards that wouldn't separate from the panels. That is exactly it. The body shop checked with 2 local and one out of state - their "Authorized" suppliers, and none of them would pull the rocker panels. All wanted to sell the complete door/fender only. I'll try to post pics this week. Right now she is buried in snow from this last storm.

Fleetwood Greg
03-25-13, 03:28 PM
I would not sell my 95 Fleetwood with 62k for that.
I have been watching these cars for years and low mileage is huge in value, they should be paying you $7-$10,000.
A few years back we had a Suburban that was totaled due to hail damage, I was willing to take their offer, but my wife noticed all the comps they used were 1/2 ton, and ours was a 3/4 ton. She called the Ins Co. claims center and asked them to find us another 3/4 ton, which is fairly rare, and within 1/2 hour they had raised their offer by $2500.
Remember this is all subjective and they will listen to your counter offer, you also can tell them you want to keep the car in your counter offer.

Good luck Greg

Poda
03-25-13, 04:01 PM
Rocker panels are out there. You just need to find a guy parting a car...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/jayoldschool/DSC_0001-2.jpg

I was the lucky recipient of those parts (and then some) as snapped them up as soon as I knew they were available.. Precisely because I want to avoid what happened to Sticks -I don't want the car totalled because of "hard to find therefore expensive" trim parts if the rest of the car is sound.. Insurance company would probably try to write off my car the first major fender bender it gets in. This gives me leverage should it ever happen. Next up? Fenders and inner fenders when I can find some reasonably priced in mint condition. And a set of all the glass.

MrHolland
03-25-13, 04:24 PM
^^^So you're going to sell the parts to the insurance company so they can fix it??? That's genius!!!!

Poda
03-25-13, 05:18 PM
Well, I can either fix myself, or hell - try to negotiate no-deductible, or sell the parts to the shop for cheaper than they'd get it for.. tons of different options. I'm basically stockpiling at one or two of hard to find or now-expensive parts so they're there if and when i need them - headlights, corners, tail-lights, filler panels, trim. All the stupid stuff that I can then not have to make a claim for, or not get hosed because I'm all of a sudden I'm in a rush to obtain. I plan on keeping this car for a long time, especially now that this was it's last winter.. Parts are only getting harder and harder to find.

MrHolland
03-25-13, 10:43 PM
Its a great idea!! People do it with older cars, why not ours.....

cadillac kevin
03-25-13, 11:01 PM
Its a great idea!! People do it with older cars, why not ours.....

I have a spare set of chrome for my caddy (along with a ton of interior parts). I figure, if I keep the car long enough (which I plan on), the parts will come in handy because these cars are getting rarer and rarer (judging by the constant flow of them (2-5 a month) into the junkyards here)

Mark 78 Coupe
03-26-13, 01:22 AM
As to the value of your car, most insurance companies use something called CCC, which is a program used to establish values of a car within a given geographic area. Your zip is entered, with relevant data about your car, and it spits out cars in the recent past that are for sale or have been sold. And, I just checked on car-part.com. There are several trim panels for sale all over the country for the car. It sounds like you are getting a serious run abound. I would ask to speak to your adjuster's supervisor, and explain that you don't want your car totaled, and that you have been able to find the missing parts. Every state has an insurance department, and don't be afraid to tell your adjuster's supervisor that you will call them if they don't start giving you usable information. It will get his attention.

Sticks
03-26-13, 05:53 AM
It's going to be a peeing contest. Today might be a sick day (gonna have to find the walking bio-hazzard that gave the bug to my wife) so maybe I will have time to look up the car-part.com link for parts and throw that back in their faces.

Nice to see that judging by your posts that I am not over estimating the value of the car. $7400 was my counter to them and I am firm in that.

As for keeping it, the thought has crossed my mind. Either fixing it myself or parting it out. The engine/trans is still strong and tight - which makes me lean towards fixing her up.

ETA - Don't any of you go snatching up all the parts I need before I can get a chance to jam this up the ins. companies backside...PLEASE

YoshiMan
03-27-13, 05:57 PM
Where in the Denver Area are you? We should meet sometime just for grins. One place you may try checking for parts is Arapahoe Auto Salvage down off Santa fe and oxford... they are a Cadillac only yard and have been very helpful with my two Cadillacs.

Sticks
03-28-13, 06:39 AM
I'll have to check my copy of the original estimate. IIRC Arapahoe Auto Salvage was one of the suppliers listed that gave out the incorrect pricing on the parts, and would not sell just the rocker panels, had to get the whole door/fender - this is according to the body shop.

I live in West/Central Denver Metro area. Might be able to meet and greet sometime. Working 60 hours a week plus Honey-dos on the weekends typically means no free time.

Who knows how many years of the Fleetwood/Brougham were compatible as far as body parts for that body style? 199x - 1996?

Poda
03-28-13, 09:19 AM
1993 to 1996 all interchange. IIRC, the only visual differences are the side mirrors that changed in 95 and moved mounting locations. Trim wise though, it all fits

brougham
03-28-13, 11:38 PM
1993-1996 should all be the same. If all else fails see if you can get the insurance company to just pay out to repair any damage to the car itself and whatever amount extra so you that you can deal with the trim on your own. There is always fleetwoods floating around junk yards somewhere. You should be able to come up with the parts on your own or if they give you a couple grand just buy a parts car to rob the stuff from.

BigCadMan_1
03-29-13, 12:30 PM
Hey Sticks, I'm not sure anyone has posted this yet but you'll find all the trim parts & more for your FWB D-body here: http://www.layitlow.com/forums/ and yes the trim from 1993 to 1996 is all the same.