: 2.0 Turbo Lag Solution?



FluxTZ
03-18-13, 12:09 PM
Hey Everyone,

Looking at the ATS and had a question about the turbo lag on the 2.0. Is the best way to avoid this on the low end to go with the manual transmission so you can control the RPMs more?

I test drove both the 3.6 and a 2.0 (manual) and didn't really notice much, if any, turbo lag on the 2.0 since I was using the manual transmission. This is in contrast to the Mercedes C and Audi A4 I drove which both had 2.0 turbos as well but very noticeable turbo lag from stopped. Adding Quattro to the A4 certainly helped a little but the lag still bothered me. I was really disappointed with the C-Class as I'd put the pedal to the floor and the car wouldn't really get going until the RPMs went up a few thousand.

Based on what I've read here so far, it sounds like the 2.0 will have more aftermarket tuning options to add more power as well.

SLA
03-18-13, 01:12 PM
You're always going to have some lag in a turbo charged car no matter what. The ATS is able to minimize that with its twin scroll turbo and DI. It's also up to the driver. If you have lag, downshift. That's what we do in the Subaru world with the crappy USDM turbo setups we get.

Quite frankly the C-Class and A4 are dogs compared to the ATS 2.0.

Yplus
03-18-13, 01:42 PM
Theoretically, turbo lag is less on autos since you also have a torque converter helping you out at low RPMs. You can also launch a turbo auto with a good ol' left foot brake application to get the turbo spooled.

The lag on the ATS compared to almost any other car I've driven is minuscule. I still get shocked at driving up a hill at 1500 RPM and the auto doesn't downshift, and I don't feel the need to override it.

bravnik
03-18-13, 02:09 PM
The lag on the AUTO from a stop if quite noticeable if you don't launch the car. However, there is no lag at all if you do launch the car but I would recommend about a 2k/2.5k launch as a 4k launch will equal serious wheel spin through 1st :)

Bertha D Blues
03-18-13, 02:18 PM
Turbo lag in my car is almost imprceptable compared to other turbos I've driven over the years.

FDNY-L107
03-18-13, 03:51 PM
I'm assuming once we get a decent cat-back and a free flowing cat-less downpipe, that should help out the lag even more.

SLA
03-18-13, 03:57 PM
The lag on the AUTO from a stop if quite noticeable if you don't launch the car. However, there is no lag at all if you do launch the car but I would recommend about a 2k/2.5k launch as a 4k launch will equal serious wheel spin through 1st :)

That's due moreso to the auto than the turbo.

NormV
03-18-13, 04:05 PM
What grade gasoline?

You might want to look to Trifecta/BNR for a tune will help.

bravnik
03-18-13, 06:20 PM
That's due moreso to the auto than the turbo.

Oh I agree. I was just sharing my experience. If you launch it then all is good. I at first thought it was the TC in 1st. It could also be a setting in the ECU that limits the throttle position as well or some other nanny setting within the ECU. I was logging Throttle Position on my runs so I will take a look and see if it was that. Another FYI our throttle never opens 100% its cap is 83% and change in the logs however there could be a 20% margin or something....who knows.

Looking at the logs the throttle open at 63% the RPM's are 2k and the boost is at a flat 0. The next step in the log the throttle was fully open 83.922%, boost was 11PSI and RPM's 3200. Full boost in the log 15+PSI was at the next tick in the log at full throttle and 5500 RPM's. Not sure if there is a gear PID but I will run it next time I grab a log if there is so we can see the shift points on the logs. I would be curious to know if they limit boost in first.

goesquik
03-19-13, 12:22 AM
Please keep logging more info for us, i'm very interested in what the ECU is limiting or adjusting in order to maintain traction. I know my 335i was able to adjust power at launch via throttle/boost control through the tune.

Siren05
03-19-13, 09:40 AM
My 2011 STI WAS A BEAST BUT MINIMAL LAG. THE ATS HAS ALMOST NO LAG? Twin scroll. FTW

mikesul
03-19-13, 09:53 AM
I will be interested in Pfadt's downpipe when it is ready, but I will go with a high-flow catted version. With an improved intake and a well designed downpipe I expect nice numbers, obviously with a tune included.

FDNY-L107
03-21-13, 03:38 PM
I have Vince's tune loaded.....very nice improvement. These ATS's will be sleepers.

Stevo Supremo
03-21-13, 06:37 PM
I have Vince's tune loaded.....very nice improvement. These ATS's will be sleepers.

how much of a difference?

like a "holy crap thats awesome!" or an "oh yeah, thats not bad" or a "hm... I think I felt a bump in power.. "

bluhaven
03-21-13, 07:54 PM
Oh I agree. I was just sharing my experience. If you launch it then all is good. I at first thought it was the TC in 1st. It could also be a setting in the ECU that limits the throttle position as well or some other nanny setting within the ECU. I was logging Throttle Position on my runs so I will take a look and see if it was that. Another FYI our throttle never opens 100% its cap is 83% and change in the logs however there could be a 20% margin or something....who knows.

Looking at the logs the throttle open at 63% the RPM's are 2k and the boost is at a flat 0. The next step in the log the throttle was fully open 83.922%, boost was 11PSI and RPM's 3200. Full boost in the log 15+PSI was at the next tick in the log at full throttle and 5500 RPM's. Not sure if there is a gear PID but I will run it next time I grab a log if there is so we can see the shift points on the logs. I would be curious to know if they limit boost in first.
What program are you using to log with?

Kevin

bravnik
03-22-13, 11:15 AM
What program are you using to log with?

Kevin

Torque App for Android with Bluetooth ODB2 reader. Works very well.

mikesul
03-22-13, 01:48 PM
Oh I agree. I was just sharing my experience. If you launch it then all is good. I at first thought it was the TC in 1st. It could also be a setting in the ECU that limits the throttle position as well or some other nanny setting within the ECU. I was logging Throttle Position on my runs so I will take a look and see if it was that. Another FYI our throttle never opens 100% its cap is 83% and change in the logs however there could be a 20% margin or something....who knows.

Looking at the logs the throttle open at 63% the RPM's are 2k and the boost is at a flat 0. The next step in the log the throttle was fully open 83.922%, boost was 11PSI and RPM's 3200. Full boost in the log 15+PSI was at the next tick in the log at full throttle and 5500 RPM's. Not sure if there is a gear PID but I will run it next time I grab a log if there is so we can see the shift points on the logs. I would be curious to know if they limit boost in first.

I had a BNR tune in my 3.6DI CTS coupe. Made very nice HP, but at WOT wanted to pull timing at shift point. Turning T-C off let it rip, and it could chirp the tires in second and third gear (auto). Shifts were very hard and if I had kept the car I would have had Jerry @ BNR loosen up torque management settings to smooth it out a little. Glad I have a manual in the ATS as I don't have to worry about any more.

Fraggy
03-25-13, 01:49 AM
I had a BNR tune in my 3.6DI CTS coupe. Made very nice HP, but at WOT wanted to pull timing at shift point. Turning T-C off let it rip, and it could chirp the tires in second and third gear (auto). Shifts were very hard and if I had kept the car I would have had Jerry @ BNR loosen up torque management settings to smooth it out a little. Glad I have a manual in the ATS as I don't have to worry about any more.

I could use that. They do custom tunes huh?

mikesul
03-25-13, 01:06 PM
I could use that. They do custom tunes huh?
Yes. They will give you a tune, you data log it and return the file. They customize it for your vehicle. Most tuners will do that today.

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I could use that. They do custom tunes huh?
Yes. They will give you a tune, you data log it and return the file. They customize it for your vehicle. Most tuners will do that today.