: Difference between LSA and LS9



V2 BRAWN
03-14-13, 11:42 AM
Perhaps this has been addressed before but the thread on warranty voiding got me thinking. If the LS9 makes 638HP why couldn't you make the relatively same changes to the LSA without voiding the warranty (short of changing internals)? I have no idea what the differences are but imagine that a more aggressive tune must be part of the equation. Can anyone speak to the differences and what could be accomplished?

I want to do mods to my car but will not put myself in financial jeopardy by voiding the warranty. I have also talked to Hennessy and, unless I misunderstood what they told me, believe that they warrant their mods and said that it would not interfere with the factory warranty.

I'm still contemplating my options and paralyzed about doing anything until I have a plan. Thanks.

DiamondWhtV
03-14-13, 12:17 PM
About the only similarities between the LSA and the LS9 is the displacement. Everything else is different.

baabootoo
03-14-13, 11:24 PM
I believe, but I may be wrong, that the aftermarket companies only warranty THEIR work. However, I wouldn't hesitate one minute on any of the bigger companies and their products.

ztollon
03-15-13, 09:59 AM
Believe the lsa is also dry sump motor which is a scavenging system. Using 1/3 of the oil

Crystal Red CTS-V
03-15-13, 10:45 AM
Believe the lsa is also dry sump motor which is a scavenging system. Using 1/3 of the oil

LS9 is like my Z06's LS7 in that it is a dry sump requiring 10.5 qts. of oil. LSA is not dry sump.

ztollon
03-15-13, 12:19 PM
My mistake

Smokin80
03-15-13, 01:48 PM
Supercharger is a 2.3 vs 1.9
Pistons are not forged
As said oiling is different.
Cam is different.

Not sure about the heads? These are the changes that come to mind

wait4me
03-15-13, 04:02 PM
Heads are different, rods are titanium, valves are titanium on the exhaust, different crank, different block, lots more of differences..

turbol15
03-21-13, 07:53 PM
I thought the block and crank were the same? what would it cost to make a lsa into a ls9?

wait4me
03-21-13, 08:25 PM
block and crank are not the same. To make a lsa into ls9 would be about 13k in parts.

dccaddyv
04-03-13, 07:51 PM
I just purchased a new V Sedan A6 and I specifically asked the dealer if I changed the drive pulleys on the SC or the crank, would it void the warranty? They told me not if the parts were GM! I said "can I get that in writing" and they said yes. However, I haven't pursued it further.

V locity
04-03-13, 09:40 PM
About the only similarities between the LSA and the LS9 is the displacement. Everything else is different.

Injectors are the same... :)

Random84
04-03-13, 10:38 PM
Ls9 has piston squirters, diff cam, titanium rods, hollow exhaust valves, titanium intake valves, forged pistons and a variant of the tvs2300 blower with dry sump (as major differences).

Ross L
04-04-13, 12:21 AM
IMO any changes other than exhaust(cat back) and intake WILL void your factory warranty. Forget pulleys( to up the boost to ZR1 levels), or computer mods. ALso,the Lsa does have piston squirters , a milder cam, a BETTER upper intercooler brick, and wet sump oiling which some have proven to make MORE hp than a dry sump(ZR1) type set up. The only people who *need* titanium rods and valves to turn less than 7000 rpms are the people who like to say they have titanium rods and valves. Its been done for 100's(a little optimistic) of years with forged rods( like the Lsa) and stainless valves( like the lsa). Have fun with whatever you decide :)

Da V-Man
04-04-13, 12:28 PM
. . . with forged rods( like the Lsa) . . .
FYI - the LSA uses powdered metal rods, not forged.

thebigjimsho
04-04-13, 01:11 PM
Sounds purdy.

Ross L
04-04-13, 01:18 PM
FYI - the LSA uses powdered metal rods, not forged.

not to split hairs but, the powdered metal process is a type of forging. Very strong, just doesn't sound as good as titanium ;)

Da V-Man
04-04-13, 01:54 PM
Actually, it's not. Forgings start off with a piece of metal that is heated to high temps and is then pounded into shape using dies. The grain structure of the metal is maintained. Powdered metal starts off with a blend of metallic powder that is placed into a form and submitted to extreme pressure. It is then sintered to below the melting point, which combines the metal molecules. The only thing they have in common is an elevated temperature step.

Ross L
04-04-13, 08:24 PM
"Forged powder-metal connecting rods link the crankshaft and pistons. They are forged under extreme pressure from alloy metals reduced to powder, rather the melted to liquid, for a balance of low mass and high strength"

from the GM powertrain website describing the LSA
Ross

Da V-Man
04-04-13, 10:28 PM
Really? Your're quoting from a GM marketing website to prove your point? I hardly think their misuse of the word 'forged' constitutes any form of validation.

Go to Wikipedia and search on the terms 'forging' and 'powder metallurgy'. It should be very enlightening.

I don't wish to engage in a pissing contest with you, so this will be my last post on the subject.

Ross L
04-04-13, 10:40 PM
Yes, I am quoting from GM. I don't know enough about forging first hand to use my own knowledge Lol. No pissing contest here.;)

topend22
04-05-13, 07:08 AM
I have read in several magazines that the LSA has forged rods as well as the GM site. I know nothing about forging, but I couldn't see GM flat out lying?

turbol15
04-05-13, 11:16 AM
@mike forged rods are in the lsa. titanium are in the ls9. the price difference is insane between the cost of the titanium rods and forged rods.

RoketRdr
04-05-13, 06:06 PM
Really? Your're quoting from a GM marketing website to prove your point? I hardly think their misuse of the word 'forged' constitutes any form of validation.

Go to Wikipedia and search on the terms 'forging' and 'powder metallurgy'. It should be very enlightening.

I don't wish to engage in a pissing contest with you, so this will be my last post on the subject.

Good because you're completely wrong and have no idea what you're talking about. And...REALLY??...you're using WIKIPEDIA??? I deal with metallurgy every day of my life. If you think the OPINIONS on wikipedia are more accurate than the R&D done by GM engineer's and that GM "misused" the word 'forged' then YOU are the one that needs a lesson in validation. Yeah...please don't post again.

HUGN*RDS
04-05-13, 09:29 PM
so I think I saw this answered but would an ls9 block bolt in the place of the lsa block? what additional things would be needed then? the rods sound strong regardless, so the head and rest of the rotating assembly make the difference, and the blower.

that forging/powdering difference sort of seems like a paint/powder coat argument. pretty cool stuff I read up on with the Wikipedia citations (see the bottom of most Wikipedia pages).

thebigjimsho
04-05-13, 11:33 PM
Much of what what does to the LSA and driveline in the Cadillac was to keep it quiet and/or civilized. An LS9 will bolt in nicely...

Betiwin
04-06-13, 11:06 AM
Not "true forged rods". Sinter forged is completely different than a true forged I beam like in the 03/04 cobras.

V2 BRAWN
04-06-13, 03:24 PM
I don't expect to get this back on track but I was looking at the differences as it relates to making horsepower not durability. I know the LS9 has a bigger supercharger and a bigger cam. I was wondering about heads, injectors, heat exchangers, exhaust manifolds, etc. If you care to pick it back up.

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Thanks. This contains most of what I was looking for.

Can you upgrade the supercharger and cam to LS9 specs?

What of exhaust differences?

Ross L
04-06-13, 03:41 PM
I believe the ZR1 makes 11 psi stock, vs our 9psi, so add upper pulley(12 psi) and tune and you're making ZR1 power(only weigh about a 1000lbs more lol). I'm sure this will start a debate, but I've seen some reports that show the "dry sump" oiling system(ZR1) requires MORE hp to operate compared to a wet sump. Injectors are the same, heads(don't know).

Da V-Man
04-06-13, 05:51 PM
I was wondering about heads, injectors, heat exchangers, exhaust manifolds, etc.
Heads for both engines flow essentially the same, but use different valves. Injectors for both engines are the same, but the LS9 uses a little more fuel pressure at WOT. The LS9 uses a dual-brick IC that has more surface area for increased charge cooling. The LS9 uses a dual-pass heat exchanger. The first pass through feeds a reservoir inlet. The reservoir oulet feeds the HX second pass through, and then on to the IC. The LS9 uses individual-runner exhaust manifolds that merge at the collector. The LSA uses exhaust manifolds where the runners merge in a common plenum.

Betiwin
04-07-13, 01:02 PM
Remember yes the LS9 runs 3lbs but that's with the LS9 cam. So that's like 5lbs on the LSA on stock cam.

quikag
04-08-13, 04:00 PM
I have both and they are both great engines for each of their respective applications. For power gain, it's not cost effective to swap in an LS9. An LSA is plenty stout for bolt-on mods, cam swap, and higher boost to make more than stock LS9 power.

Trapspeed
04-08-13, 05:59 PM
I have both and they are both great engines.

"Youuuu dick!" :p That's awesome. Good problem to have!

GMX322V S/C
04-09-13, 12:46 AM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-2013-cadillac-cts-v-performance/159345-differences-between-ls9-lsa.html#post1739022