: Can you get 700whp w/o adding a cam or NOS?



Moparman4444
03-05-13, 04:00 PM
All the posts I have seen seem to suggest that the standard CAI, pulleys,HX, injectors, headers and exhaust, porting SC snout and CNC heads, with a tune, will NOT get you into the 700 whp range w/o a cam.

I am looking for bigger horespower but don't want a lumpy cam no matter how imposing it sounds. The car needs to be relatively quiet and smooth.

I was thinking about a larger blower but have heard that that makes the car less streetable unless you add the cam.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

wait4me
03-05-13, 04:19 PM
The maggy kits we had would hit that goal with stock engine, but you need cold air kit, injectors, fuel mods, heat exchanger, and other things to make it work. However, I would not suggest that power level on stock parts.

matt116
03-05-13, 04:38 PM
Jessie
What stock parts need to change to run 700 hp?

wait4me
03-05-13, 05:00 PM
any engine can run 700hp, it is just a question of how long. Some last 500 miles, some last 10s of thousands of miles... Every engine and its components are different and will have different longevity.

I chose things a bit differently as I like them to last and be a lot stronger than what is needed so it eliminates any issues in the future for new mods.. With the prices of engines for replacements, I just suggest pulling out the stock stuff and going with new strong stuff that is made for the higher horsepower.

An example, If a guy comes to me and wants 700hp, I could easily just add that power to the stock engine, and it will make that power. But the right way is for the stock motor to come out, I build him a 434 or 427 engine for cheaper than what he can get a new crank, rods, and pistons for his original engine for... So it makes sense to just upgrade.

If he is set on only working with the stock engine, then rods, and pistons are the needed changes at least.
Then you have headers, camshaft, and head work to make the power easier and requiring less boost to achieve that goal.

There are a lot of ways to hit horsepower goals. Not all are the best way..

Moparman4444
03-05-13, 05:04 PM
Jesse

OK you have my attention. The power level should be fine considering the limited use and duration of power application.

What is a "maggy kits" ?

BTW I still have the CAI, pulleys, and tuner you sold me for my other car.

wait4me
03-05-13, 05:04 PM
Most cars that want 700rwhp thru us where as follows.

434 or 427 engine with ls7 heads. Block was either iron or aluminum, customer choice and same price. Aluminum was ls7 block.
magnuson mp2300 blower kit that fits under STOCK hood.
Heat exchanger kit.
Jabsco intercooler pump.
1000cc stock modified injectors.
lower 9.5 pulley balancer kit.
Dual boost a pump kit.

To add more horsepower is just more boost via pulley swaps or nitrous at that point.

SecretWeapon
03-05-13, 07:57 PM
I tapped 700 whp with 2.85/10 pulley set, ported tb, snout, and sc, New Era cai, ID850 injectors, Stainless Works exhaust, cam, Alky Control meth, and stock heads. A cam swap is a must to hit that power level without nitrous.

Chrispy
03-06-13, 03:59 PM
ZR1 cam adds about 25RWHP and drives / sounds like stock. That would help :)

Are you auto or six speed manual?

rayjoedef
03-06-13, 10:33 PM
Jesse,

What is the highest hp/tq you would recommend with stock block and internals?....thx

cbluerock
03-06-13, 11:28 PM
Its hard to say whats the max HP these motors can take before you need to upgrade the internals. i think Wait4me answered it best in this thread. Also, if your an Automatic, your drive train, transmission, etc .. Will probably need to be beefed up.

I'm 550 at the wheels with 9.55 lower (Innovators West/Metco combo), ARH Long Tubes w/no CATS, Air Raid CAI, new plugs and wires, and Tune and for a daily driver - it's super fast and all I need. It's hard enough to get 305/30/19 Nitto Invos to hook up now....

I even add Torco to every tank to increase total octane to each tank and protect myself against any knock/detonation - because I drive my car like I stole it !!!!!! (Stuff is only $85 for a case and last me 3 months at a time)

I plan on getting a HX, larger IC pump, and larger IC reservoir before it gets warmer out. I need to start looking who sells the best.

wait4me
03-07-13, 11:51 AM
Jesse,

What is the highest hp/tq you would recommend with stock block and internals?....thx

This number has changed as I have been learning this exact car since 2008, I started observing failures on cars in the high 600s back then and still to this day.

My Exact hp limit I feel is safe if all things are done properly and tune is good, is 620-630 RWHP. I have remained at that limit of thinking for over 1.5 years now, as all data still shows this on what im tracking.

rayjoedef
03-07-13, 03:54 PM
Jesse,

How high boost level are you comfortable in making that hp?? 14psi tops?

Luna.
03-07-13, 04:38 PM
Where do you live Moparman?

Moparman4444
03-07-13, 06:43 PM
Im in Wisconsin getting ready to get the car back on the road as soon as the snow melts.

I trust Jesse's experiance but also factor into the equasion all the other members making 650-700 w/o shortblock modifications. I would be comfortable with heads and a mild cam if necessary but don't want to increase the idle or have a lumpy idle. I also didn't want to spend $20,000 on a complete build.

wait4me
03-07-13, 08:39 PM
Jesse,

How high boost level are you comfortable in making that hp?? 14psi tops?

With the stock blower yes, 14s, 15s, I feel comfortable with that. Most of the reason why I build the 434 ci engines is, I can make the same power and more but with half of the boost. An example, the 700rwhp v with the stock blower setup is only making 9psi of boost, but making 700hp..

Or 650 rwhp with 8-9psi and smooth idle as good as stock... Any time I can make the target horsepower with less boost needed is always a plus in my eyes.

----------

Depending on where you go, 20k is not needed. heck 10k isn't needed at some shops...

Luna.
03-07-13, 09:41 PM
There are a verifiable butt-ton number of ways to get to 700rwhp without even thinking about going with a larger block. Is E85 an option? That makes it almost stupid-easy to get close.

I'd contact Mike at GForce or John Page at 21st Century Muscle Cars--the volume of 700+ rwhp CTS-Vs they have turned out borders on disgusting & I'm not sure how many different combinations they've been through, but I've seen numerous.

If I had the chance to do it all over again (I'm already over 700rwhp), I'd do exactly this.

rayjoedef
03-07-13, 09:47 PM
Im in Wisconsin getting ready to get the car back on the road as soon as the snow melts.

I trust Jesse's experiance but also factor into the equasion all the other members making 650-700 w/o shortblock modifications. I would be comfortable with heads and a mild cam if necessary but don't want to increase the idle or have a lumpy idle. I also didn't want to spend $20,000 on a complete build.


approx 9k got me.....heads/cam, 2.55/8.6,ported tb, kooks 1 7/8 into catted x-pipe, catch-can, plugs, resized (80lb) injectors, dyno tune, wait4me hx, timing chain....642rwhp 600rwtq at 13.5-14 psi. I was happy with price and build so far. There are prolly tuners on this thread who can do it cheaper.

PremierJosh
03-07-13, 10:57 PM
You can make 700whp on the stock short block safely with the correct parts and a proper tune. We have one making 862whp on a 100 shot even. The stock trans is on borrowed time with the torque for sure. We have not hurt a single lsa engine. He'll the only lsx based stock engine we have damaged in the past 7 years is a 5.3 that collapsed a stock lifter after 60 plus 1/4 mile passes @25psi and way over revving the stock valve train badly. We push our personal engines to extraordinary levels to test the limits we put on customers cars. I'm not saying ill give just anyone 800whp in a ctsv. If I don't trust them to always run 93, not run out of methanol if they have meth injection, if they want to run the tx mile on pump gas, etc. I'm also totally against a large strokes engine in a ctsv on the stock blower. It's not just about making a certain # on the dyno it's also about having a great driving, well performing setup you can take the family on vacation in.

Trapspeed
03-07-13, 11:11 PM
(I'm already over 700rwhp),

Dammitman!!!!! :worship: Holy sheeeyat.

Guard dog
03-09-13, 11:53 PM
SO the OP wants over 700rwhp with no cam, stock motor, no nitrous and it should idle like stock and be cheap?:hmm:
You can make over 700rwhp on a stock bottom end but you need to have the airflow through the engine and fuel delivery necessary for it.
Increasing displacement alone won't make more power if you can't get the airflow through the engine. The camshaft controls the valve events so a stock cam is a barrier to making higher horsepower.
The weakest link in our drivetrains is the transmission and torque is what kills it.

ExpatMedic
04-12-13, 09:42 AM
638rwhp = CAI, 2.5 upper, 9.1 lower, injectors and e-85. Backed timing down a bit and sit somewhere around 620rwhp until I get off my ass and install the heat exchanger.

With the stock cubes and compression, I'm thinking I'd need a fully ported TB/snout/blower, cam, headers, and 10.0 lower to reach 700rwhp.That last 80rwhp (From 620 to 700) costs a lot more money than the first 200rwhp.

However, at a true 700rwhp, you never know if some hard parts may decide to go kaput.

RaVeNous
04-12-13, 12:07 PM
ZR1 cam adds about 25RWHP and drives / sounds like stock. That would help :)

Are you auto or six speed manual?

With tuning?

Moparman4444
04-14-13, 12:21 AM
I guess I could consider heads and a ZR1 cam as long as a good tuner can get it to run smooth. I just don't want a lumpy idle or a loud car. I gave that up years ago. Those kind of cars are cool to drive for about 30 minutes, then they get anoying.

Im antisipating a 2.55 and 9.5 pully combo, CAI, TB, Ported snout and blower ports,Super chiller, pump 91-93 octain where avaliable,CNC heads, and a cat back exhaust, plus a tune. 850 injectors if necessary. Hopefully that will get me @650 WHP. The rest I can make up with NOS.

Eswat
04-14-13, 03:39 AM
any engine can run 700hp, it is just a question of how long. Some last 500 miles, some last 10s of thousands of miles... Every engine and its components are different and will have different longevity.

I chose things a bit differently as I like them to last and be a lot stronger than what is needed so it eliminates any issues in the future for new mods.. With the prices of engines for replacements, I just suggest pulling out the stock stuff and going with new strong stuff that is made for the higher horsepower.

An example, If a guy comes to me and wants 700hp, I could easily just add that power to the stock engine, and it will make that power. But the right way is for the stock motor to come out, I build him a 434 or 427 engine for cheaper than what he can get a new crank, rods, and pistons for his original engine for... So it makes sense to just upgrade.

If he is set on only working with the stock engine, then rods, and pistons are the needed changes at least.
Then you have headers, camshaft, and head work to make the power easier and requiring less boost to achieve that goal.

There are a lot of ways to hit horsepower goals. Not all are the best way..

I agree that.
If you just want to run 700ps for secs, many engine could do it.
Most ppl buy V were not only for track or drag, so the stability and reliability are big things, 100k miles would my lowest request.
I have some similar concepts too, like "how much hp would gain without fuel and charger mods".

Naf
04-22-13, 10:50 AM
Try the Lingenfelter GT9 cam, it is just a little louder then stock and will take you over the moon with power.

My friend installed it in his car after having a GT11 cam and loved the stock like tone, but he gained 30hp over the old cam...

Fappy
05-01-13, 12:57 PM
Anyone have a parts list that have made 700rw with out spray?

ExpatMedic
05-01-13, 01:09 PM
CAI, 2.5 upper, 9.1 lower, injectors, heads/cam, headers, cooling (heat exchanger/expansion tank) and e-85 should get you to 700rwhp.

Fappy
05-01-13, 01:34 PM
Ok thanks. That is pretty much what I was thinking.
Would it be possible on 93 octane with out a blower upgrade?