: No ats-v news?



boycer11
01-16-13, 09:21 PM
Kind of disapointed we haven't had any ats-v news yet out of naias. I keep checking here and gminisdenews every day.

My dad doesnt like the new vette at all, not surprised since he has on 2012, I am still trying to decide.

thebigjimsho
01-16-13, 11:34 PM
If it were to have a V8, I bet it would've been ready for NAIAS...

rand49er
01-18-13, 06:39 AM
If it were to have a V8, I bet it would've been ready for NAIAS...That or GM just wanted to prolong the good press a little longer and not dilute news of the Vette and (regular) ATS then have nothing for other shows. Personally, I think we're both right.

bruff1977
01-18-13, 12:58 PM
I'm still going with the notion of a massaged LT1 in the V. Even for the C7 the stats are estimated. I'm predicting a tune past those numbers for the ATS-V.

Avery323
01-27-13, 11:35 AM
i think Detroit was all about ELR. NYIAS will be about CTS. LA in November will prob be Escalade -- and new ATS-V. Would make sense to launch it there b/c LA is strongest V market.

rand49er
01-27-13, 04:56 PM
... b/c LA is strongest V market.Lot of Texans here might dispute this.

exesivefire
01-29-13, 10:31 PM
I'd imagine we will see the new cts before the ats v IMO

Jinx
01-30-13, 06:08 AM
It would be nice if ATS-V were unveiled before CTS-V ordering closed. Sigh.

It would also be nice if there wasn't a yearlong gap in the V-series. If they don't announce ATS-V until November, it probably won't be on dealer lots until the following Spring.

JFJr
04-20-13, 12:41 PM
Guys, I love my 2009 V2 but am piling up the miles (75,000+) and would like to trade this year. I like the idea of a slightly smaller V with upgraded technology and a suitable engine and transmission. What is the group's latest prognostication on ATS-V announcement and availability? Someone must have a GM mole friend.

Jud

RippyPartsDept
04-20-13, 01:12 PM
gmauthority claims it will be available late this year (and they also claim the TTV6 is the powerplant)
http://gmauthority.com/blog/cadillac/cadillac-ats/2014-ats/2014-ats-v/
they could be wrong about the powerplant but they're probably not
they're also probably right about the release timing so we should get some official news/anouncement in the coming months

Jinx
04-20-13, 02:02 PM
I bet Cadillac gives the ELR another shot at the limelight at the LA Auto Show in November and otherwise stands pat until the Detroit show in January.

RippyPartsDept
04-20-13, 02:07 PM
yeah that makes sense ... they pushed back the release of the ELR from late 2013 to early 2014

the ATS-V should be released before then though unless they are going to extend the 2013 year (2013 hit showrooms in October)

Jinx
04-20-13, 02:30 PM
Unless the ATS-V doesn't arrive until MY2015.

RippyPartsDept
04-20-13, 02:33 PM
that would be unorthodox ... and quite the let-down too

Jinx
04-20-13, 03:05 PM
Orthodox for Old GM doesn't necessarily apply to New GM.

Really, when NAIAS 2013 came and went with no ATS-V we left orthodoxy behind. When even New York came and went, we left all precedent behind.

RippyPartsDept
04-20-13, 06:15 PM
Yeah I see your point. Time will tell

rand49er
04-22-13, 03:21 PM
Orthodox for Old GM doesn't necessarily apply to New GM.

Really, when NAIAS 2013 came and went with no ATS-V we left orthodoxy behind. When even New York came and went, we left all precedent behind.My theory is that either they didn't want to take any thunder away from the other new models they were introducing AND/OR they didn't want to tip their hand yet to the Europeans (primarily BMW) and reveal which motor and hp they've got in mind. Of course, it could be that they're truly not yet decided or it's going to slip to 2015 before introduction and there's not rush to tell the public.

RippyPartsDept
04-22-13, 03:52 PM
yeah, that's a pretty good working theory

JimmyH
04-23-13, 05:25 PM
I am betting we don't see the ATS-V until next year. I am still surprised they will be selling the 2nd gen CTS coupe, wagon, and V models next year alongside the 3rd gen CTS sedan.

GM is up to their armpits in unorthodox right now. I say kudos to them for doing what no one expects.

----------

You know, I want to see GM throw every one a curve. Offer an ATS-Vsport with the turbo V6, 420 hp, auto-only; and an ATS-V with LT1, 475 hp, manual trans only.

JFJr
04-23-13, 07:28 PM
You know, I want to see GM throw every one a curve. Offer an ATS-Vsport with the turbo V6, 420 hp, auto-only; and an ATS-V with LT1, 475 hp, manual trans only.Now we're talking; I just hope it's available earlier, with the TR6070, of course.

Jud

JimmyH
04-23-13, 08:11 PM
They need another V-series manual trans exclusive. Just like the original V. If you wanna be part of this club, then you have to row your own gears.

mikesul
04-24-13, 10:29 AM
They need another V-series manual trans exclusive. Just like the original V. If you wanna be part of this club, then you have to row your own gears.

I agree!

Jinx
04-24-13, 12:14 PM
There is no way that Cadillac is going to build a manual-transmission-only car. And I doubt they'll invest in bringing both the TTV6 and LT1 to market in the ATS. (They may be testing both, but full certification and production is a whole other level of commitment.) And the idea of an ATS Vsport is interesting, but I think the existing NA V6 already fills that role. A TTV6 ATS-Vsport would be faster than the CTS-Vsport, undermining the latter more expensive and more profitable car. Cadillac's position is likely that the entire ATS line is sporty enough that a Vsport isn't needed.

Now if GM builds an I4 turbo with 350hp or so (say 2.5L), that might make for an interesting and non-fratricidal ATS Vsport... but I kind of doubt it, at least in the first-gen ATS lifecycle.

As for the CTS-V continuance, I'm not surprised. It's just too damn successful and too damn important to Cadillac's image. The ATS-V can't really fill its shoes without being overkill and therefore threatening the next CTS-V, and the next CTS-V won't arrive for at least another year.

There's another possibility that I hesitate to even mention. GM may be slowing the roll of all of its next-generation top dogs due to CAFE concerns. GM doesn't want to put out a 600hp monster and then have to detune it or kill it after a year. They may be looking at the CAFE escalation chart and stalling in hopes that popular sentiment shifts and the targets get revised. Honestly, CAFE hasn't really hurt anybody yet, but it's about to. Or they may simply figure that they can't unveil a legion of supercars and expect any traction for CAFE rationalization.

Or maybe the new and seriously downsized GM is just super-busy and doesn't have the bandwidth to roll out so many high-performance niche cars so quickly.

rand49er
04-24-13, 10:08 PM
... A TTV6 ATS-Vsport would be faster than the CTS-Vsport, undermining the latter more expensive and more profitable car. Cadillac's position is likely that the entire ATS line is sporty enough that a Vsport isn't needed ...Agreed, but wasn't the M3 faster than the M5 a few years back or am I comparing different model years? I mean, it may not be an absolute necessity that the CTS VSport has to be faster than the ATS VSport, but I understand what you're saying.

The rest of your observations are good, too. CAFE is eventually going to put a halt on all our fun, but exactly when is the question. And, you wonder just how wide is their "bandwidth" and how much it affects the introduction of these high-performance models. Too many too fast, and the cars won't be the best that they're capable of, and none of us wants a compromised car.

JimmyH
04-25-13, 01:41 AM
Cafe isn't going to put an end to these types of cars. Its just going to make them more expensive.

rand49er
04-25-13, 11:47 AM
... Its just going to make them more expensive.Because there'll be an electric motor and regenerative system at all four corners. I guess I meant to say it'll still be fun, but with differences.

JimmyH
04-25-13, 12:13 PM
Look at Tesla. There is hope for the sports car of the future.

Jinx
04-25-13, 01:03 PM
I wish they'd just raise the gas tax instead. Then maybe the roads wouldn't suck.

RippyPartsDept
04-25-13, 03:35 PM
or maybe just use the gas tax money for roads

JD03Cobra
04-26-13, 11:36 AM
They need another V-series manual trans exclusive. Just like the original V. If you wanna be part of this club, then you have to row your own gears.

I agree but the V2 owners wrecked this theory by purchasing majority of the cars with autos. If your looking at selling cars then what would you build?

JimmyH
04-26-13, 09:12 PM
I understand that. But it was nice knowing that all my V1 brothers were choosing their own gears just like me.

JFJr
04-28-13, 07:00 PM
I understand that. But it was nice knowing that all my V1 brothers were choosing their own gears just like me.

V1's rocked and started the changing of the guard. I loved mine.

Jud

bruff1977
05-01-13, 01:04 PM
http://www.motoman.tv/MMEditorial/tabid/81/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/304/language/en-US/article.aspx

Interesting segment about the future of Cadillac and what types of new vehicles they may introduce... But the reason why I posted is because Mr. Butler mentions that the TTV6 may be used in an upcoming V... :(

Jinx
05-02-13, 02:10 AM
Where in that video did he say the TTV6 would be used in an upcoming V?

At 1:30 the TTV6 is shown and discussed. "And that will be in what we call the Vsport."
"So, not a V."
"Not a V."
"Yet."
"YET. Is the operative word!"

He means the CTS Vsport is not the replacement for the CTS-V, and that a CTS-V is still coming.

.Jinx

bruff1977
05-02-13, 10:58 AM
Glad someone took it differently. They were talking about engine choice for the CTS lineup initially... Jinx I really hope you're right!

What I really want to know is what car is that illustrated on the wall once Mr. Butler is introduced in the video.

rand49er
05-02-13, 07:34 PM
Without hearing news to the contrary, I'm getting used to the idea that the TTV6 will be the ATS-V powerplant. I was hoping for a bit more.

JFJr
05-02-13, 09:12 PM
Without hearing news to the contrary, I'm getting used to the idea that the TTV6 will be the ATS-V powerplant. I was hoping for a bit more.

If that's right Cadillac will lose a lot of prestige and customers, but marketing types know more than any of us; that's why they are paid the big bucks, regardless of merit and knowledge, and usually sorely deficient in both areas.

Jud

M5eater
05-03-13, 02:41 PM
If that's right Cadillac will lose a lot of prestige and customers, but marketing types know more than any of us; that's why they are paid the big bucks, regardless of merit and knowledge, and usually sorely deficient in both areas.

Jud
I've had both a twin turbo V6 platform and now 2 LS V8 platforms.

Cadillac is banking on these new vehicles targeting an audience such as myself, so I can tell you that while I prefer the noise a V8 makes and maybe I like that the aftermarket is broad(although that is increasingly a minor concern as cars ebecome more powerful) and maintenance is simple, there are no other real qualities I would say are 'absolute have to have's'.

The truth is, the LSA has a lot of power, and it delivers it smoothly, but I liked the power delivery in the TT V6 better, that kick in the pants makes it just 'fell' faster(and in a hot-rod sedan made for 20-30 somethings getting out of their WRX's and Evos, that's OK), even though it was really much slower. The aftermarket for a relatively low production Audi was amazing suffice to say as well, and we're possibly talking about the LF3 being in the CTS as well as any other number of GM vehicles.

Fuel economy also will play a big role for me. While I'm unsure a detuned LT1 in a light platform with a tall 6th gear (like the 1st V) would have a problem returning decent numbers, the facts are, smaller displacement F/I motors run cheaper(my B5 S4 turned 20-22 combined routinely), and paying for 15-16 mpg premium at $4/gallon in the V is a drain when you want to drive it daily. Not withstanding the fact that with such a tiny gas tank, you're only averaging a hamster's asmathic breath's worth of range too.

In conclusion, I see both powertrains as a win-win, and if I had to make a decision it of course would be for the V8, if only because it makes a great noise and it's just a simpler engine(which hopefully means more reliable)

That doesn't mean however, that I would totally shun the car should it come with a TTV6, because the reality is, there is no other car out there that's going to hit this segment to offer a manual with a V8. Those days are over (even the RS5/ RS4--that isn't stateside doesn't have a manual option) How can you alienate a customer that didn't have a product to begin with?

JFJr
05-03-13, 02:53 PM
the reality is, there is no other car out there that's going to hit this platform and offer a manual with a V8. How can you alienate a customer that didn't have a product to begin with?Some of us don't have to have a sedan. If the ATS-V will only come with the TTV6, that alienates me and I'm probably going for a C7 w/TR6070.

Jud

bruff1977
05-04-13, 12:46 PM
This predicament has been popping up in my head for a while now. Whoever introduces the ATS-V with a TTV6 will be asked, "Why NOT a V8?" I really don't think it will be the other way around if it comes with a V8.

JFJr
05-04-13, 03:17 PM
This predicament has been popping up in my head for a while now. Whoever introduces the ATS-V with a TTV6 will be asked, "Why NOT a V8?" I really don't think it will be the other way around if it comes with a V8.Plus the "V's" have been very successful with V8's, and that is somewhat of a trademark. We don't need to copy the Germans in their approach to high performance. Let's do it the American way and ignore them. Besides, the "real world" mileage improvement for these TTV6's is marginal at best. However, I do think that the new TTV6 is a great option for the standard CTS and ATS, and will be successful in that configuration for customers who are not car guys and think that all this complexity is needed for bragging rights.

Jud.

JimmyH
05-04-13, 05:01 PM
I agree. It should be a V8. Unfortunately I don't think it will. I know Cadillac is reading these posts. Let's just hope they take them seriously.

rand49er
05-04-13, 06:29 PM
Here's something to ponder: Which used car with 100k miles on it would you rather buy, a high-feature TTV6 or a cam-in-block V8?

Look at a V1 with a 100k on it versus a German car with a four-valve-per-cylinder overhead cam motor. That LS6 or LS2 equipped V1 would be a whole lot cheaper to maintain or fix than that more sophisticated German motor ... by far. How the new TTV6 ages when it gets a 100k on it has yet to be seen. Give me that LSx or LTx motor any time.

JFJr
05-04-13, 07:57 PM
Here's something to ponder: Which used car with 100k miles on it would you rather buy, a high-feature TTV6 or a cam-in-block V8?

Look at a V1 with a 100k on it versus a German car with a four-valve-per-cylinder overhead cam motor. That LS6 or LS2 equipped V1 would be a whole lot cheaper to maintain or fix than that more sophisticated German motor ... by far. How the new TTV6 ages when it gets a 100k on it has yet to be seen. Give me that LSx or LTx motor any time.

Agreed, I have 76,000+ miles on my 2009 and could go over 100,000 miles w/normal maintenance. The TTV6 has about twice as many moving parts; what does that tell us? I really don't understand why we need to go the more complex and less cylinder route, given realities. Do we have to pander to the stupid but well-healed trust babies, or do we stay true to our informed roots and continue with a successful formula?

Jud

RippyPartsDept
05-05-13, 09:14 AM
Points well taken ... But...

The ATS is copying, but doing it better. Learning and improving.

The new CTS-V will have a V8. Period

Everything else is basically speculation or opinion.

Jinx
05-05-13, 11:36 AM
i wonder if BMW fans know when they'll get their next M3, or if they're just as anxious and impatient as we are.

M5eater
05-05-13, 12:25 PM
i wonder if BMW fans know when they'll get their next M3, or if they're just as anxious and impatient as we are.

There's just as much F80 news as there is ATS-V news.

Maybe more so since the M3 is strictly going to be a sedan (the coupe will now be called an M4)


Look at a V1 with a 100k on it versus a German car with a four-valve-per-cylinder overhead cam motor. That LS6 or LS2 equipped V1 would be a whole lot cheaper to maintain or fix than that more sophisticated German motor ... by far. How the new TTV6 ages when it gets a 100k on it has yet to be seen. Give me that LSx or LTx motor any time
The LS engine is not without it's own faults, and Ford has demonstrated that their ecoboost engine is extremely robust.

while I would agree that there may be some differences in parts prices being that you're talking about a relatively new engine against one that's been around for 15 years, generally speaking, the only items you're going to need to replace at 100K are maintenance items, and possibly a timing belt or chain in the OHC engine. Ancillaries typically don't just fail after ticking off 6 figures, and generally it's safe to say that their service life is about the same on an LS as it is on a Honda.

I'd take either motor if we're only talking about 100K. When we start talking double or triple that, then the LS presents certian advantages in parts costs and serviceability, and that's generally because it's avoided a lot of the technology in modern OHC motors like VVT, DoD or multiple stage intake runners. BMW's Vanos system comes to mind as a general problem area in high-mileage BMW engines, but that aside, an I6 BMW's mechanics will last as long as any LS motor.

The LT1 makes use of a lot of this technology, and I think you'll find once those things hit some serious mileage, they'll fail just like any of it's modern competitors.

thebigjimsho
05-06-13, 04:56 PM
I agree but the V2 owners wrecked this theory by purchasing majority of the cars with autos. If your looking at selling cars then what would you build?It's all those knuckle-dragging drag racer fanbois wanting the autos...


I keed, I keed.

















































































































hmm...

----------


There's just as much F80 news as there is ATS-V news.

Maybe more so since the M3 is strictly going to be a sedan (the coupe will now be called an M4)


The LS engine is not without it's own faults, and Ford has demonstrated that their ecoboost engine is extremely robust.

while I would agree that there may be some differences in parts prices being that you're talking about a relatively new engine against one that's been around for 15 years, generally speaking, the only items you're going to need to replace at 100K are maintenance items, and possibly a timing belt or chain in the OHC engine. Ancillaries typically don't just fail after ticking off 6 figures, and generally it's safe to say that their service life is about the same on an LS as it is on a Honda.

I'd take either motor if we're only talking about 100K. When we start talking double or triple that, then the LS presents certian advantages in parts costs and serviceability, and that's generally because it's avoided a lot of the technology in modern OHC motors like VVT, DoD or multiple stage intake runners. BMW's Vanos system comes to mind as a general problem area in high-mileage BMW engines, but that aside, an I6 BMW's mechanics will last as long as any LS motor.

The LT1 makes use of a lot of this technology, and I think you'll find once those things hit some serious mileage, they'll fail just like any of it's modern competitors.The Ecoboosts have had their fair share of problems...

M5eater
05-06-13, 07:56 PM
I agree but the V2 owners wrecked this theory by purchasing majority of the cars with autos. If your looking at selling cars then what would you build?
the N/A market still has the power to force a 6MT in a auto-only vehicle overseas like the M5.

I would like to think that as low as the take-rate on the V2's has been, it has overall been a worthwhile venture providing it. If nothing else the positive press simply by offering it is incentive, as clearly BMW is selling very few F10 M5's with a sthick.


The Ecoboosts have had their fair share of problems...
I won't doubt that they likely have some grown pains, but if the LS is being lauded around like an invincible machine of unyielding endurance, then surely with it's number of problems itself anything else by comparison can be measured as a pretty good attempt.

The reality is that the oil pumps randomly give out, it has an audiable unresolved piston slap issue, the DoD equipped engines's valvetrain is barely adequate in stock form and block porosity problems(along with various leak TSB's) are a joke.

I won't pretend to know what you might about the ecoboost engines, but all engines have some minor niggles. The reason the LS will get you home is because there's very little to go wrong to keep it from running, not that it's a strictly trouble free masterpiece.

thebigjimsho
05-06-13, 08:02 PM
Enough, Mr. Longwinded Disappearedpants!

M5eater
05-06-13, 08:05 PM
I'm back .

http://remyvanruiten.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/deal-with-it.jpg

Hoosier Daddy
05-06-13, 09:51 PM
Here's something to ponder: Which used car with 100k miles on it would you rather buy, a high-feature TTV6 or a cam-in-block V8?

Look at a V1 with a 100k on it versus a German car with a four-valve-per-cylinder overhead cam motor. That LS6 or LS2 equipped V1 would be a whole lot cheaper to maintain or fix than that more sophisticated German motor ... by far. How the new TTV6 ages when it gets a 100k on it has yet to be seen. Give me that LSx or LTx motor any time.
I agree. And its why GM will sell them with 0K miles on them rather than 100K.

rand49er
05-06-13, 10:31 PM
I agree. And its why GM will sell them with 0K miles on them rather than 100K.I agree. And it's why the Germans have been successful in selling their cars because resale value (as affected by motor issues when the warranty expires) apparently isn't considered much by the original owner.

krummel21
05-11-13, 02:46 PM
Anyone heard any new news? When can we expect to see this?

JFJr
05-11-13, 07:32 PM
If the ATS-V is not available for purchase this year, Cadillac will lose customers and momentum.

Jud

M5eater
05-11-13, 08:25 PM
If the ATS-V is not available for purchase this year, Cadillac will lose customers and momentum.

Jud

They really just need to be 'around' the m3 , which is forcast to release early next year.

While I agree, a fall release would be much nicer and may rake in a few more pent-up holiday sales, I really don't think it'll hamper it's success overall.

JFJr
05-11-13, 08:33 PM
They really just need to be 'around' the m3 , which is forcast to release early next year.

While I agree, a fall release would be much nicer and may rake in a few more pent-up holiday sales, I really don't think it'll hamper it's success overall.

Personal interest, I have 76,000+ miles on my car and need to do something before my powertrain warranty expires in the middle of 12/2013. Otherwise, back to Corvettes.

rand49er
05-11-13, 10:46 PM
... Otherwise, back to Corvettes.We all have to suffer occasionally.

Ha ha!

JFJr
05-12-13, 06:55 PM
We all have to suffer occasionally.

Ha ha!

Yeah, I would hate to have to go to a C7. :lildevil:

JimmyH
05-13-13, 04:55 PM
So would I. I would have to hide all those ricer slots and scoops they put all over it.

JFJr
05-13-13, 07:34 PM
So would I. I would have to hide all those ricer slots and scoops they put all over it.

Yeah, they're all for show to attract the kiddies, anyway.

thebigjimsho
05-15-13, 01:20 AM
Oh, Jimmeh...

JFJr
05-27-13, 01:36 PM
*#+"$&*, I wish Cadillac would provide some information soon about the ATS-V, such as engine and sale timeframe. I love my car but would like a slightly smaller replacement with newer technology. My parking garage at work is a pain with tight, minimal parking spaces. At least I'm fortunate enough to have a super sedan for a daily driver in the interim.

Jud

M5eater
05-27-13, 02:40 PM
*#+"$&*, I wish Cadillac would provide some information soon about the ATS-V, such as engine and sale timeframe. I love my car but would like a slightly smaller replacement with newer technology. My parking garage at work is a pain with tight, minimal parking spaces. At least I'm fortunate enough to have a super sedan for a daily driver in the interim.

Jud

amen.

I fear however, we'll be hearing very little for the next 4-5 months sans increasingly less camouflaged test cars and the same 'confirmations' on power train details.

I'm trying to keep my mind busy parting out the V and getting that sold as well as scrounging every last penny I can for as large a down-payment as possible.

thebigjimsho
05-27-13, 06:13 PM
We heard NOTHING about the V2 before it came out. There were rumors about LS7s and that was it. Vs are uber-secrative...

M5eater
05-27-13, 06:19 PM
We heard NOTHING about the V2 before it came out. There were rumors about LS7s and that was it. Vs are uber-secrative...

well they'd better hurry their ass up, I have an RS4 or 335i on the brain.

BEarle
06-03-13, 01:50 PM
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130603/CARNEWS/130609961

M5eater
06-03-13, 04:26 PM
BEarle, you are an angel of mercy!

Those front calipers, I'm sorry to say,look like the same 4 pots all other ATS's wear. At least the rears look like they get alloy 4 pots as well though.

That's not such a bad thing seeing as the brembos in the ATS are very good, I was just personally hoping for some 6 pot flash.

http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/brembo-calipers-for-2013-cadillac-ats-41716-7.jpg

JFJr
06-08-13, 06:42 PM
It would be nice if Cadillac "leaked" some information about the ATS-V engine. Then a lot of us could make a decision about continuing our interest. For me I need to make one before the end of the year. You would think that development is pretty far along since they've done some winter testing and now track comparisons to refine the drivetrain. On the other hand, I may keep my great 2009 beyond expiration of its powertrain warranty, but that doesn't help Cadillac sales figures.

Jud

Jinx
06-08-13, 07:15 PM
Why would Cadillac want to give you a reason to move on? They'll keep leading you on with limitless possibility as long as possible.

JFJr
06-08-13, 07:24 PM
Why would Cadillac want to give you a reason to move on? They'll keep leading you on with limitless possibility as long as possible.

Because some enthusiasts won't put up with that and will pursue other possibilities. It's a new world for Cadillac and car guys have other options.

Jud

JimmyH
06-08-13, 08:13 PM
Based on what I have seen so far I would move on.

JFJr
07-06-13, 09:23 AM
This July 4th weekend would be a perfect time to introduce the ATS-V and showcase American pride in yet another way. What about it Cadillac?

Jud

bruff1977
07-06-13, 12:50 PM
Cadillac's thinking may lead to a Frankfurt reveal to really stick it to the Europeans. That's in September. The last major US show of the 'year' is LA in November I believe.

JFJr
07-06-13, 01:46 PM
Cadillac's thinking may lead to a Frankfurt reveal to really stick it to the Europeans. That's in September.
Ha haa! I love it!

Jud :lildevil:

bluecrayon
07-06-13, 11:28 PM
I am betting we don't see the ATS-V until next year. I am still surprised they will be selling the 2nd gen CTS coupe, wagon, and V models next year alongside the 3rd gen CTS sedan.

GM is up to their armpits in unorthodox right now. I say kudos to them for doing what no one expects.

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You know, I want to see GM throw every one a curve. Offer an ATS-Vsport with the turbo V6, 420 hp, auto-only; and an ATS-V with LT1, 475 hp, manual trans only.

Oh man I can't wait! I just got my ats 3.6 2 months ago and I'm already thinking about the V. I love the ats and all but I still would like more power. I want something that destroys most cars on the market, not just beats most cars on the market. I came from a 97 z28 and while I think my ats is a touch faster, I still want something that'll give a new vette a good run. I'm still getting used to the sound of the ats and while I do like it, it still doesn't compare to my lt1 with a corsa exhaust! Love to see a v8 in the ats-v, I really don't think that'll happen, I'd still be happy with the twin turbo 3.6.

JimmyH
07-10-13, 01:59 PM
You are not going to see an ATS-V that will destroy most cars on the market. It would also destroy its own drivetrain. The ATS-V will be a sports sedan. Not a supercar.

bluecrayon
07-11-13, 12:09 AM
You are not going to see an ATS-V that will destroy most cars on the market. It would also destroy its own drivetrain. The ATS-V will be a sports sedan. Not a supercar.

Well I guess that came across a bit wrong....I think 400-425 hp would be enough. :)
Not like super car power, but enough to beat most cars.

Jinx
07-11-13, 12:34 AM
400-425hp won't be enough unless BMW shows up with less.

As the standard-bearer, BMW can afford to make the less-power-but-better-all-around play. After all, they've made it before and the press has gushed.

As the upstart, Cadillac can't afford to take the chance that their package will be so much sweeter than BMW that the people at large will overlook a horsepower deficit. Not even if they want to get away from the American reputation of power-over-finesse.

.Jinx

M5eater
07-11-13, 07:50 AM
400-425hp won't be enough unless BMW shows up with less.

As the standard-bearer, BMW can afford to make the less-power-but-better-all-around play. After all, they've made it before and the press has gushed.

As the upstart, Cadillac can't afford to take the chance that their package will be so much sweeter than BMW that the people at large will overlook a horsepower deficit. Not even if they want to get away from the American reputation of power-over-finesse.

.Jinx

the S55 is said to make approximately as much as the previous V8, but offer 100+ ft/lbs more torque.
Ie ~ 410-420hp. 395-400 ft/lbs.

coincidence?


The catch is that there's also talk of extensive weight savings to bring the M3/M4 back down to 34-500 ish pounds. The LF3 has a bit more torque if we land right on 100ft/lbs for the S55 to make up for a 100-150 weight deficite.

Otherwise I could see them just ploping an LF3 in the ATS the same I could see a 10-20 HP, 20-30ft/lb bump. BMW as we all know (including GM) is notorious for lying about their power train estimates recently.

mikesul
07-11-13, 10:42 AM
The latest Autoweek (7/8) has the 2014 BMW M4 coupe at 44-99 lbs (depending on trim level) lighter than the existing 3 series. Engine is supposed to be a 3.0 TT straight six with 440 HP.

rand49er
07-12-13, 12:20 AM
The latest Autoweek (7/8) has the 2014 BMW M4 coupe at 44-99 lbs (depending on trim level) lighter than the existing 3 series. Engine is supposed to be a 3.0 TT straight six with 440 HP.An in-line six cylinder is a formidable design ... you know ... well balanced and all ... plus only two cams to run all those valves.

Wonder if that "440 hp" is underrated and that DCT probably consumes almost negligible hp on its way to the rear wheels. Hm-m ...

GM ... are you getting all this? :Poke:

M5eater
07-12-13, 08:06 AM
An in-line six cylinder is a formidable design ... you know ... well balanced and all ... plus only two cams to run all those valves.

Wonder if that "440 hp" is underrated and that DCT probably consumes almost negligible hp on its way to the rear wheels. Hm-m ...

GM ... are you getting all this? :Poke:
Rated at 420, making 450 is what 3series post has been saying for a few months now.

This particular I6, ie, a heavily revised N54, isn't known for it's reliability. Smoothness yes.

rand49er
07-12-13, 10:07 AM
... isn't known for it's reliability ...Car rags don't often see and report on this aspect, and they're the ones that have the biggest influence on the buying public.

Hoosier Daddy
07-12-13, 11:54 AM
Car rags don't often see and report on this aspect, and they're the ones that have the biggest influence on the buying public.
They don't eat without automaker ad revenue, so will do just about anything to avoid talking about that. But it's comical when each new model comes out and suddenly they are talking about all the problem areas (never mentioned before) the new model fixes.

Jinx
07-12-13, 12:05 PM
Remember that the M3 is under pressure from Corvette and Mustang. Sure, M3 faithful wouldn't be caught dead in either one, but a significant part of the car's appeal seems to be as a track day machine, and I don't think Roundels will take kindly to being left far behind. So I wouldn't count on BMW being too conservative with the muscle.

There's also the recent German trend of offering a performance car at one price, and then offering a performance pack with a horsepower bump for a hefty additional fee, right from Day One. You don't want to be the guy who got the regular version with less power, do you? I would be shocked if we don't see BMW make this move on the M3/M4, now that they have the forced induction that makes such a power play (ahem) cheap and easy to make. Point being, maybe an M3 has only 420hp, but I bet an M3 also has over 450hp. The magazines are going to compare any challengers to the hotter version when it comes time to render judgement on who's the coolest kid in class.

.Jinx

M5eater
07-12-13, 12:13 PM
Remember that the M3 is under pressure from Corvette and Mustang. Sure, M3 faithful wouldn't be caught dead in either one, but a significant part of the car's appeal seems to be as a track day machine, and I don't think Roundels will take kindly to being left far behind. So I wouldn't count on BMW being too conservative with the muscle.

There's also the recent German trend of offering a performance car at one price, and then offering a performance pack with a horsepower bump for a hefty additional fee, right from Day One. You don't want to be the guy who got the regular version with less power, do you? I would be shocked if we don't see BMW make this move on the M3/M4, now that they have the forced induction that makes such a power play (ahem) cheap and easy to make. Point being, maybe an M3 has only 420hp, but I bet an M3 also has over 450hp. The magazines are going to compare any challengers to the hotter version when it comes time to render judgement on who's the coolest kid in class.

.Jinx

remember, the M4 is the next 2door M3. Even with the E92 it was said that they went a bit more 'extreme' with that car over the sedan version (and it also had a slightly more rigid unibody)

There's also the recent German trend of offering a performance car at one price, and then offering a performance pack with a horsepower bump for a hefty additional fee, right from Day One. You don't want to be the guy who got the regular version with less power, do you? I would be shocked if we don't see BMW make this move on the M3/M4, now that they have the forced induction that makes such a power play (ahem) cheap and easy to make. Point being, maybe an M3 has only 420hp, but I bet an M3 also has over 450hp. The magazines are going to compare any challengers to the hotter version when it comes time to render judgement on who's the coolest kid in class.

Valid points. Me personally, I have mixed feelings. Items like the Msport package brake kit for the F30 (ie the F80 m3's future standard brake package) or a factory tune for the N54/55 they have going (20 Hp and 30-40ft/lb something) are just fine, and when reasonably priced (BMW's has, weirdly) offer a way for me to cure my mod bug with a high quality, warrantied product.

When however, you take the route of say, Mercedes and start tinkering with non-DIY parts, I find that it muddies things quite a bit. Their power package involves a real LSD, or internal engine modifications to yield a piffy 30HP difference(you can achieve the same results on any M154, but that's not the point). When you hold a car back in dramatic ways for the sake of being able to charge an additional $6K on an already 70K vehicle, I find that the worst kind of marketing. To me that distorts the soul of the car. Knowing that it's not quite as good as it could have been.

The Carbon Ceramic Brake package coming to this car will be exempt. Anyone that can afford that kind of dough (it'll probably be a 4-6K option) can gladly have the nightmares of chipping a rotor and then shelling out another $1.5-2.5K per rotor.

bruff1977
08-07-13, 03:27 PM
It seems to me that the M3 AND M4 will be released simultaneously. We've seen both on the development track. Could Cadillac do the same with the ATS-V? Wait for the ATS coupe to be released then drop BOTH V series? Maybe that's the reason why info has been painfully near non-existance.

rand49er
08-07-13, 04:32 PM
If it was up to me, I'd stagger their announcements for maximum play in the rags.

I still wonder if GM is waiting for the M3/M4 to be outed before they show their hand. Better have a full house, too.

RippyPartsDept
08-07-13, 04:54 PM
Four of a Kind or a Straight Flush would also work