: 96 Northstar Build



daveyhouse
01-10-13, 06:58 PM
Time to start building this thing.

Here is the block ready for reassembly.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0039_zps3bfa3345.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0040_zps3c7f069e.jpg

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Here is the crank back from the machine shop. Had the journals polished.

Until I am ready it will remain in a plastic bag.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0042_zps6ea6bdf7.jpg

scott f
01-11-13, 01:06 PM
Looking Good!:yup:

daveyhouse
01-11-13, 02:25 PM
Still cleaning the rest of the pistons. A clean piston is a happy piston right? 3 more to go.

A question for the machine shop guys on here. When I picked the crank the guy told me to clean before use, because he said he treated it so it wouldn't rust. What should I use to clean it? I guess I should have asked him. :banghead:

Also while at Napa I asked them for assembly lube and this is what he gave me. Is this okay for the northstar or should I get something else.
EDIT: Link for lube http://www.lubriplate.com/Products/Automotive-Lubricants-Motor-Oils/Lubriplate-No-105-Motor-Assembly-Grease.aspx

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0056_zps44525d05.jpg

Ranger
01-11-13, 03:52 PM
Brakleen should clean the crank pretty well.

daveyhouse
01-11-13, 04:27 PM
Sounds good. I am wanting to check clearances with plastigage. So brake clean compressed air and lite oil will work?

Can I just spray with wd-40 when done? until next time it comes out of bag.

daveyhouse
01-11-13, 05:55 PM
Okay pistons are cleaned and happy

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0058_zpsfb495021.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0057_zps7fed687a.jpg

vincentm
01-11-13, 09:55 PM
Those pistons DO look like they're smiling in a weird sorta way. My dad told me cars do have personalities!

Ranger
01-11-13, 10:15 PM
Sounds good. I am wanting to check clearances with plastigage. So brake clean compressed air and lite oil will work?

Can I just spray with wd-40 when done? until next time it comes out of bag.

I would say yes to both questions. Actually, Brakleen will dry residue free without compressed air, but it removes EVERYTHING, so I'd wait until just before installation. If you can't, then be sure to re-coat it with something, WD40, motor oil, almost anything.

----------


My dad told me cars do have personalities!
Probably true. Just think about some of the names you call it when working on it. Sooo many come to mind, but can't print a one. :)

Submariner409
01-11-13, 11:55 PM
Synthetic motor oil. Short term. WD-40 dries and leaves a sticky residue that must, again, be washed off with solvents.

Try several test patches of different lubricants or preservative sprays on old metal junk..............

daveyhouse
01-12-13, 12:31 AM
hmmm. how about lite weight dino oil

Submariner409
01-12-13, 11:16 AM
It's not like you'll be storing the crank for a long period. Dino is just fine; synthetic has less tendency to run off of metals.

For long-term storage of sensitive metal parts I recommend a product called Boeshield, most parts stores or NAPA. It's a Boeing-developed metal preservative spray that stays "greasy" - WD-40 dries to a hard film (over time) and must be washed off with solvent.

Any old 5W-30, 10W-30, 30W you have lying around............. That way, you simply smear on some new oil and bolt it together. Use Torco, Edelbrock, CompCams or other dedicated assembly lube - everywhere. The stuff stays in bearings and on cam follower faces and prevents galling until oil pressure/flow is established. It dissolves in normal oil circulation and can remain in the engine until the first oil/filter change at 1,000 miles.

When you do that change, chuck the filter in a vise and carefully use a hacksaw to cut around the filter case at the tapping plate. Remove the case, the media, and the media end caps. Remove the media from the center tube and portion it into 8-pleat chunks. Using the vise and rags, squeeze each media chunk dry. Now pull the media out like an accordion and inspect the surface for metal chips and junk. It will scare you to death - the first oil change after overhaul. (Oil flows from the case side, past the anti-drainback valve, through the media and out the center tube.)

The engine you are rebuilding has flat-tappet cam followers. I recommend you research the HD 10W-30 oils from Chevron, Shell, Pennzoil, Edelbrock, JoeGibbsRacing or AMSOIL - they contain significantly more anti-scuff additives than today's SM and SN energy-conserving oils.

daveyhouse
01-13-13, 12:19 AM
Thank you for tips, they are greatly appreciated.

Sorry no updates today. I am getting ready to assemble the bottom end to check for clearances on the main bearings.
I suppose I can use the old main bolts for this procedure correct?
I have new ones but want to use those on the final assemble.
Should I go full degree torque or not (I'm afraid of snapping the old ones) for clearance test.

beebop01
01-13-13, 04:36 PM
Did you dingleberry hone the cylinders?

daveyhouse
01-13-13, 04:41 PM
Took the block to a machine shop. They de-glazed them, I don't know what their process is or how they do it. Had check for specs and they said everything was within spec. Only problem was #1 cylinder was a little rough.

daveyhouse
01-13-13, 06:45 PM
Okay main bearing clearances were .0015 across the board, so I guess that means I am good there. Used brakleen to spray everything back down, and coated the entire cranked with Rotella T and re-bagged it.

Just waiting for a tap for the studs, so we can get this thing moving.

Submariner409
01-13-13, 06:55 PM
Did you dingleberry hone the cylinders?

NO !!! Right out of the GM service manual. Northstar uses a CNC setting coarse crosshatch pattern and GM does not want you to destroy that. The new rings will seat in the old bore. If a machine shop does a glaze break they should maintain the original aggressive crosshatch.

daveyhouse
01-13-13, 07:00 PM
The crosshatch pattern is still there. I will try to get a pic of it tomorrow.

maeng9981
01-14-13, 04:52 AM
Any good tips on cleaning the pistons?

daveyhouse
01-14-13, 11:02 AM
I had de greaser in a gallon jug that I cut a hole in big enough for the piston to fit into. Put the piston in and left it sit overnight in the solvent, then took a wired toothbrush from harbor freight the next day and started brushing.
The pistons still had stains on them so I used sandpaper in graduations. 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 2000, and then buffed them for the shine.
It's probably not right to do it that way, but whats done is done. Criticism is welcomed.

I am no mechanic but I do maintain my own vehicles. I'm not afraid to tear into something.

Experience is the best teacher. (I saw that somewhere on this forum)

Ranger
01-14-13, 11:12 AM
Not the least bit meant as criticism, but that seems like a lot of work on something that will never see the light of day and will get carboned up again in short order.

daveyhouse
01-14-13, 11:15 AM
Yeah don't that beat all? Still waiting on a tap and needed something to do.

Ranger
01-14-13, 11:22 AM
I can understand that. Good luck with it.

daveyhouse
01-14-13, 02:25 PM
Okay went and picked up the tap and got cutting oil while there. Now we can start tapping for the studs. Wish me luck.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0068_zpsf7e6ccdd.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0067_zpsa7184ac8.jpg

Went to Advance Auto for assembly lube and this is all they had. Do you think this will do the trick?

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0065_zps02ad00cc.jpg

Okay anybody that has an advance auto store near them, they have a sale on Weaver brake parts cleaner Buy one get one FREE. We bought 12 cans and cost $24 I think the sale is until January 30

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0070_zpsdeb3cef5.jpg

daveyhouse
01-15-13, 01:56 PM
Started tapping today, here are the first 2. This is going in Tim Carroll style (Freehand) I drilled the holes with a 1/2" bit then again with a 17/32" bit.

Then tapped with 5/8-11 plug tap. Went in three times till I got to the bottom of the hole. Then went in with a bottom tap on the fourth entry.
I used the cutting oil, and each time I came out blew it out with compressed air, then cleaned with brake cleaner and air 3 times before going back in with the tap and oil.

Looks like I got one of those dirty casting blocks. :( as you can see in the threads

Not the easiest taking pics with phone, Somebody broke into garage and stole some tools and my camera a couple months ago. It takes a couple shots before I get good pic out of it.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0072_zps02adc39f.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0071_zps0e2e04b3.jpg

Ranger
01-15-13, 04:17 PM
I don't like the looks of the threads in the first picture, but I can't see the same thing in the second. How did the drill chips come out? Shiny silver slivers or dull gray chips or powder?

daveyhouse
01-15-13, 07:42 PM
That first pic is one that has the step in it for the alignment dow. It is intake side of #1 next to timing chain.
There was some dull chips, I don't remember seeing any powder.
I got 5 left I will finish tomorrow with pics of bad ones.

Ranger
01-15-13, 09:57 PM
I take it you have seen the "Root Cause" sticky? I'd hate for you to continue if it is a bad block.

Submariner409
01-16-13, 10:26 AM
Or, looking at it another way: Where the locating dowel sleeve was is now threaded for the oversized stud - about 9 more threads for the stud to bite on.

You really NEED to duct tape/polyethylene plastic sheet cover every block opening except the bolt holes.

daveyhouse
01-16-13, 12:36 PM
Oops! I just used clear boxing tape to cover everything. Another lesson learned.
That was the worst one for pits, but I want to pressure test all of them just to make sure none are seeping.
What do you recommend, like 20psi?

Edit to add:
Now that I look at the 1st pic, I don't know if it just lost focus at the bottom or what. The pit is the real dark spot at about 1:00. Everything below that look good to me

Submariner409
01-16-13, 03:11 PM
Total clear tape cover is fine. I mistakenly assumed those were the only 2 bolt holes that had been done............Now I see the tape seams........

daveyhouse
01-17-13, 04:39 PM
Okay all holes are tapped

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0079_zps08f04c77.jpg

To check for leaks I got flared gas fitting from Lowe's and reduced down to 3/8 so I could get air fittings on it.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0077_zpsaa8ad243.jpg

Then took an inner tube and cut in pieces to protect the threads on the block.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0076_zpscf21c524.jpg

Pressurized to 20psi and found no leaks

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0075_zps14d728f8.jpg

Checked for ring gap. Half of them were at max for top ring of .016 and 2nd ring @.020. The oil rings were well within spec. (These are new rings)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0080_zpsbb923be8.jpg

Submariner409
01-17-13, 04:44 PM
Your ring gaps are just fine - remember: ring gaps close as the engine heats. At least you'll never crack a ring because of insufficient gap.

daveyhouse
01-17-13, 04:48 PM
I like your half full glass, compared to my half empty glass.:D

daveyhouse
01-18-13, 01:22 PM
Okay removed wrist pins and rods from the pistons cleaned them up with solvent, then cleaned them with brake cleaner.
Applied assembly lube to the wrist pin, collars in the pistons, and the collar of the rod then reassembled.

Installed the rings. Now the pistons are bagged and ready for assemble.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0084_zps228a18cf.jpg

We didn't get the oem ring set and this is the oil ring that came with the set.
Do you think we will pay for that down the road?
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0082_zps7317778c.jpg

Submariner409
01-18-13, 06:13 PM
That's not an oil ring - that's 1/3 of an oil ring - the expander. There are 2 side rails that go with each expander.

When those pistons/rods/caps/pins go in, it all gets soaked with engine oil on assembly.

daveyhouse
01-18-13, 06:29 PM
I did put the upper and lower control on with them in their 30* locations. It just caught my eye that the expander was different than oem. I guess it didn't matter which way up on these, the FSM mentioned the gap contact must face up, but these are identical flipped either way, unlike the oem.

Submariner409
01-18-13, 06:46 PM
In some ring sets - usually the second compression ring - the face is tapered so it acts as a scraper on the downstroke. If an oil ring has special installation procedures there will be directions in the ring set box and a mark on the top side of the ring rails.

daveyhouse
01-18-13, 06:50 PM
The 1st and 2nd compression rings both were marked for upside and I installed them in that manner. I will check the control rings for a mark.

daveyhouse
01-19-13, 09:04 PM
I started today checking the oil control rings for marks and found none, so I guess I am good there.
I placed the main bearings in the upper case half, then applied assembly lube.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0087_zps4013d45f.jpg

I then laid the crankshaft in.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0088_zpsf899e47b.jpg

Then I installed the bearings into the lower case half.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0089_zps928584bf.jpg

I put the 2 together temporarily with the old oil manifold so I could install the pistons.

First they got their oil bath

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0090_zpsd228b9ab.jpg

Then I put a bearing into the rod and appled assembly lube

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0095_zps16cb5cea.jpg

daveyhouse
01-19-13, 09:07 PM
Then the battle began installing the pistons

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0092_zpsfaebfcf5.jpg

Then grabbed the bearing cap inserted the bearing, applied assembly lube, and broke out the new rod bolts from Chris @ Rippy Cadillac (Thank you sir) and installed.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0096_zpsa6df33fb.jpg

I had to use a piece of 10 gauge copper wire for guiding the rods because I could'nt find my piece of heavy copper wire, but we got her done.

Well now the pistons are in their home.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0098_zpscf44d357.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0099_zps1b3f16f0.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0097_zps0a1d5e68.jpg

Time to put her to bed for the night.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0100_zps0b6d4461.jpg

vincentm
01-19-13, 09:33 PM
Nice progress!

98eldo32v
01-20-13, 01:48 AM
Outstanding work!!!!

Keep going.........

daveyhouse
01-21-13, 04:06 PM
Too cold for me to get anything done, have to work on this thing outside. All I got done was torquing down the rod bolts. I torqued them to 18' lbs then an additional 110*

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0101_zps4ab94fb2.jpg

I want to get bottom sealed up now, but I am worried about the temps with curing of the sealant. Chris @ Rippy told me to just use Ultra Grey. I haven't picked it up yet. Does anybody know what the working temps are for the Ultra Grey?

Submariner409
01-21-13, 05:49 PM
RTV = Room Temperature Vulcanizing elastomer sealant. Also applies to the various RTV rubber products. The stuff begins to "work" as soon as it is exposed to air and humidity. The reason that RTV silicones stink while curing is due to the formation of acetic acid during the cure.

RippyPartsDept
01-21-13, 06:13 PM
nice work ... our guys often trust Ultra Grey more than the GM stuff...
(the GM stuff often sits too long and ends up rock solid - only happens once in a blue moon with Ultra Grey)

daveyhouse
01-21-13, 07:46 PM
Room temperature LOL, there goes my luck again :nono: They are calling for a high of 22* tomorrow. Our highs are not supposed to get above freezing until next week.

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Okay got the Ultra Grey.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0102_zps9ea4d458.jpg

I didn't see anything for temp restrictions just that it will take longer. Now tomorrow it starts out at 17* and 30 o/o humidity than dropping to 20 o/o humidity and temp rising to 21* for a high. brrrr!!!

Directions are as follows:

DIRECTIONS: 1. For best results, clean and dry all surfaces with a residue-free solvent such as Permatex® Brake & Parts Cleaner. 2. Cut nozzle to desired bead size. Gaskets are best formed using a 1/16? to 1/4? (2 to 6 mm) bead. 3. Apply a continuous, even bead of silicone to one surface, surrounding all bolt holes. Assemble parts immediately while silicone is still wet. Finger tighten until material begins to squeeze out around flange. Allow to dry for one hour then retighten 1/4 to 1/2 turn. 4. Silicone will skin over in one hour and fully cure in 24 hours under normal conditions. Allow more time for cold or very dry conditions. Clean uncured silicone from hands, tools and clothing with Permatex® Fast Orange® Wipes or Fast Orange® Hand Cleaner. NOTE: Not recommended for use on head gaskets or on parts in contact with gasoline.

stoveguyy
01-22-13, 11:53 AM
Some other guy here bought a remaned northstar and it burned oil like a pig. I would expect new rings and valve guides/seals on a remaned motor. Why would it burn oil? Did the shop mess up the cylinder wall texture? I have heard there are no oversize pistons available. I would think std unmolested cylinders and new pistons/rings would work ok?

Submariner409
01-22-13, 03:17 PM
If the cylinders and pistons mike within design specs the only replacement needed is rings. There IS a GM piston on the market that is/was used for warranty replacement due to noise or oil consumption - it's like the later 2000 pistons, using a tin coating on the skirt to reduce scuffing. In a production engine pistons are selected from several "production sizes" - all the same nominal machining size but with some ten-thousandths of difference - and they're bore-matched in each engine, thus the cryptic etchings on the piston crowns. Each one is hand fit to a specific cylinder.

How many builders are necessary to turn out, say, 90 engines an hour every 8 hours ?

There ARE aftermarket pistons available in a couple of oversizes but GM does not recommend boring the (thin) liners oversized. The GM service manual basically says "Out of spec, new block".

daveyhouse
01-29-13, 07:16 PM
Okay finally the temps broke enough (I hope) that I was able to reseal the lower end.

Got the new oil dist plate and new main bolts from Chris @ Rippy Cadillac a couple months ago, thank you again sir
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0103_zps29131d80.jpg

Sorry I did not take pics as I went but here it is all sealed up

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0106_zpse863e3be.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0108_zps2b1963d7.jpg

Have a dilemma here, we bought a full gasket kit off eBay back in August last year. I just noticed that that year on the package says 2000-2001. Is there any difference for the gaskets on those years? It was advertised as 98-99
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0107_zps772d3ce9.jpg

maeng9981
01-30-13, 05:46 AM
Between those years, head gaskets/valve cover gaskets/halfcase/oil pan gaskets and various other gaskets/seals/grommets would interchange, but the coolant crossover gaskets, throttle body gaskets, intake gaskets and others would be different.

RippyPartsDept
01-30-13, 12:15 PM
I'm pretty sure valve cover gaskets are different (spark plug seals are the same)

daveyhouse
01-30-13, 03:57 PM
Thanks for help and clarification.

I guess that's what we get for trying to save a buck. After searching the part number on the kit it is supposed to be for 98-99. So far the only thing I used out of the kit was the o-rings for the oil filter adapter.
Got a little more done today will post pics tonight.
Humidity is terrible. Picture a cold soda can outside in 90* August, that's what everything is doing to me, sweating like crazy. All of my tools are soaked with condensation.:crying2:

CadillacLuke24
01-30-13, 10:04 PM
Great job so far!! Almost there. :thumbsup: Keep it up!

daveyhouse
01-31-13, 06:56 PM
Okay started by mistakenly putting the oil pump on first:duh: then applied assembly lube to the intermediate sprocket shaft.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0115_zps5a305466.jpg

So off with the pump and on with the timing chain and more new parts from Chris @ Rippy
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0120_zps5f590dce.jpg

The pump is also new from Chris. I submerged the entire pump in Rotella T then used the drive bushing to turn the pump and circulate oil through the pump.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0121_zps12b77ab0.jpg

Did a dry fit with the studs from Tim Carroll (thank you sir).

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0122_zpse4e86c23.jpg

The only ones that went all the way by finger were the ones where the guide pins were. The rest got stuck at 4 1/2" from the top of the deck, and I don't want to wrench them, finger only. Come to think of it I don't remember going in for a 2nd pass with the bottom tap. Looks like I am going to tape everything off again and re-tap with the bottom tap.
Gives me something to do while waiting on remanned heads. One is supposed to be on the way, and he will order the other one with his next paycheck 2 weeks out.

vincentm
02-01-13, 01:32 PM
A studded Northstar block is just a beautiful site to see, i dont know how else to put it, its almost majestic looking in a auto mechanic geek sort of way.

98eldo32v
02-01-13, 01:53 PM
Great job!!!!

:2thumbs:

Carroll Cadillac
02-01-13, 02:15 PM
Okay started by mistakenly putting the oil pump on first:duh: then applied assembly lube to the intermediate sprocket shaft.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0115_zps5a305466.jpg

So off with the pump and on with the timing chain and more new parts from Chris @ Rippy
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0120_zps5f590dce.jpg

The pump is also new from Chris. I submerged the entire pump in Rotella T then used the drive bushing to turn the pump and circulate oil through the pump.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0121_zps12b77ab0.jpg

Did a dry fit with the studs from Tim Carroll (thank you sir).

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0122_zpse4e86c23.jpg

The only ones that went all the way by finger were the ones where the guide pins were. The rest got stuck at 4 1/2" from the top of the deck, and I don't want to wrench them, finger only. Come to think of it I don't remember going in for a 2nd pass with the bottom tap. Looks like I am going to tape everything off again and re-tap with the bottom tap.
Gives me something to do while waiting on remanned heads. One is supposed to be on the way, and he will order the other one with his next paycheck 2 weeks out.

Hey!!!
How is everyone?
Nice to see you getting your engine studded for that awesome fix!

I try to add as much information as possible in the install, but yes you must use both taps and the second tap should certainly be taken to the bottom.
In order to get that sweet finger twist down of the studs? When you use the second tap? Take it all the way down then remove it clean the hole with a shot of brake cleaner,
then using a shot of penetrating oil run it all the way in, back it up and down a couple times until it just feels free.
Then completely clean all the holes before installation and they should feel a little more free going in.

However, occasionally they get a little tight here and there, this could be caused by any tiny debris but it is just fine to use a pair of pliers or vise grips, you will not do any damage to the studs they are made of extreme material and will be just fine.
Sometimes it just takes a slight turn with pliers to get past the tightness and it will free back up, but in no way will it damage the stud.

Once the proper depth has been achieved, either with your fingers or pliers twist it back and forth until it is just feely sitting there, and you are ready for the heads.

I am looking forward to hearing your Caddy is running awesome!

Tim

97EldoCoupe
02-02-13, 01:06 AM
Chris over at Rippy could have supplied you with a much better sealant. Oil eats through Permatex over time. ACDelco makes a top notch engine sealant that even resists ATF. It's sad that Permatex sells sealants that are no good. We did some testing a few years back in the shop and ACDelco P/N 88901148 was the best. Even "The Right Stuff" by Permatex could not compare and is more expensive than GM's.

Jim, .020" is the safe limit for Northstar overbore. GM's remanned Northstars (the ones dealerships sell) are .020" overbore.




----------


If the cylinders and pistons mike within design specs the only replacement needed is rings. There IS a GM piston on the market that is/was used for warranty replacement due to noise or oil consumption - it's like the later 2000 pistons, using a tin coating on the skirt to reduce scuffing. In a production engine pistons are selected from several "production sizes" - all the same nominal machining size but with some ten-thousandths of difference - and they're bore-matched in each engine, thus the cryptic etchings on the piston crowns. Each one is hand fit to a specific cylinder.

How many builders are necessary to turn out, say, 90 engines an hour every 8 hour

There ARE aftermarket pistons available in a couple of oversizes but GM does not recommend boring the (thin) liners oversized. The GM service manual basically says "Out of spec, new block".

The Northstars were not assembled by hand. Almost everything was automated in Livonia. Not even the head bolts were hand-torqued. .010" out on a piston does not sound like the work of General Motors. I would like more information on this if you have it. They manufactured close to 300,000 engines in one year at peak including the 4.0L and the 3.5L shortstar. Later as Northstar production dropped, they started manufacturing 5.3L truck engines in the same plant.

daveyhouse
02-02-13, 10:57 AM
Thank you everybody for help with tips and tricks,

Tim, thank you for the studs my son bought them from you I believe back in August. I will re-tape and re-tap with bottom bit. I remember making three passes with the plug tap, but only one pass with the bottom tap:bang2: I will go back in with the bottom tap as many times as needed to get that finger fit.(almost sounds dirty:D)

Jake, I did want to buy sealant from Chris, but I don't think he felt comfortable selling what he had, I think they have problems with the shelf life. I guess they don't go through it as much as they used to.

Submariner409
02-03-13, 04:52 PM
.0002" is a lot different from .010". (I posted ten thousandths ......)

Piston oversizes - Going by the GM service manual that says there are no oversized pistons in the field. A quote from the disassembly and inspection in the overhaul section of the (2002 Seville last edition) GM service manual: "Compare your results with the engine mechanical specifications. If the cylinder diameter exceeds the specifications, the cylinder block must be replaced. There are no oversized pistons available for service."

Doesn't leave much gray area.

daveyhouse
02-06-13, 07:22 AM
Update:
Received a head yesterday. It was like Christmas for him, open the the package to see a clean shiny head.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0124_zpsa6af933a.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0125_zpsa60147e3.jpg

So he is off to work and I start looking with a flashlight and what do I see, a lifter that is scrubbed on top. :(

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0123_zps84d44d66.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0128_zps64307f06.jpg

Question: Would I be able to just use an intake lifter off of the old head and put in its place? If so would I have to go through a cam break in procedure because of it being married to another cam?

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0127_zps1078924a.jpg

Okay question about the studs. I went out and picked a bottle of medium strength thread locker, how much do I apply, and I imagine I should insert right away? Normally when I apply thread locker I just put a bead down one side of the threads, but I want to get this right the first time.

daveyhouse
02-06-13, 11:23 AM
upon deeper investigation found 2 more lifters with cracks.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0135_zps8b10a794.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0134_zps5e59a4ac.jpg

vincentm
02-06-13, 11:29 AM
Cracked lifters, ouch.

stoveguyy
02-06-13, 11:35 AM
Uh, was this a krylon rebuild? Stevie wonder did the assembly/inspection.

daveyhouse
02-06-13, 12:15 PM
Uh, was this a krylon rebuild? Stevie wonder did the assembly/inspection.

http://www.headsonly.com/

LOL Stevie and his voodoo

----------

Was trying to save a buck because cost of new exhaust valves, valve job, new seals, maybe new seats or guides it was cheaper to go to them. Now maybe not.
I did e-mail them with links too pics, now we wait to see what their response is. I see Tim Carroll has re-manned heads hmmm!

----------

Okay just off the phone with them, they e-mailed back with a 800# to call.
He was very apologetic and wanted to send me three lifters. I told him I was concerned about the lifters being married to the cam. He said it was not a problem with this style setup, nothing compared to single cams that are downstairs in the block, which the lifters are stuck with cam for the life of them.

Anyway I mentioned about just swapping good lifters out the head that is getting returned to him to save time. He said no problem.

Back to the question I had in post # 61
Okay question about the studs. I went out and picked a bottle of medium strength thread locker, how much do I apply, and I imagine I should insert right away? Normally when I apply thread locker I just put a bead down one side of the threads, but I want to get this right the first time.

ktr-sb
02-06-13, 01:48 PM
Chris over at Rippy could have supplied you with a much better sealant.

Well, not to quibble, but on my LY7 timing chain repair, I used Ultra Grey out of the "tootpaste tube" (not the "caulk tube") and I got excellent beads which have not leaked in the year since:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1cc30b3127ccefe839d9bc47b00000030O08IZtXLZszag9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1cc30b3127ccefe837b6ec4fd00000030O08IZtXLZszag9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1cc30b3127ccefe832f4cc4f500000030O08IZtXLZszag9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

RippyPartsDept
02-06-13, 01:57 PM
yeah, that's what we usually use instead of the GM grey stuff

Submariner409
02-06-13, 03:32 PM
Okay question about the studs. I went out and picked a bottle of medium strength thread locker, how much do I apply, and I imagine I should insert right away? Normally when I apply thread locker I just put a bead down one side of the threads, but I want to get this right the first time.[/QUOTE]

Squeeze a bead of thread locker around the bottom 4 or 5 stud threads and screw the clean, dry stud finger tight into clean, dry cylinder block hole until it bottoms. Actually, the thread locker simply keeps things together until you start torquing - that act will lock all the coarse block and stud threads together. Follow the stud manufacturer's recommendations for what to do to/with the upper (fine) threads, washers, and nuts.

Yes to the Permatex UltraGray also.

RippyPartsDept
02-06-13, 04:48 PM
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6645/downloadhsg.jpg

What's this thing called? or at least where did you get it?
I know what it is and does but I can't seem to find out where to get them unless i know what to call it

daveyhouse
02-06-13, 04:57 PM
Thank you Sub

----------


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6645/downloadhsg.jpg

What's this thing called? or at least where did you get it?
I know what it is and does but I can't seem to find out where to get them unless i know what to call it

Looks home made to me

piece of pcv pipe with a slot cut into it, and a garden hose fitting glue to it.

Am I close? what do I win?

RippyPartsDept
02-06-13, 05:12 PM
Yeah i thought it might have been home-made but have heard of these things before

i was thinking about getting them for our techs

Submariner409
02-06-13, 07:45 PM
There are any number of tube rollers and squeezers out there. Very handy tools. Some are very much like a caulking gun handle - simple hand pressure squeezes the tube evenly and you get it all - to the last drop.

Google "tube product squeezer"

daveyhouse
02-06-13, 08:14 PM
tubewringer dot com

looks like theirs would get every last drop

98eldo32v
02-06-13, 08:41 PM
Those things have been around for ages.

The first time I saw one was on a tube of toothpaste, same concept.

Continued success with the build.......:2thumbs:

RippyPartsDept
02-06-13, 08:43 PM
yeah tubewringer is what most of the guys in the shop said they would prefer

we have this kentmoore tool already but its not that ideal
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kent-Moore-GE-48326-Sealant-Dispenser-/390410381050

ktr-sb
02-07-13, 08:20 AM
Looks home made to me

piece of pcv pipe with a slot cut into it, and a garden hose fitting glue to it.

Am I close? what do I win?

Close. Yes, homemade. Yes, pcv pipe (for irrigation riser). No on garden hose - I cut one of these apart:

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/5/Orbit-Irrigation-Products-54042-rw-169226-236012.jpg

I like the big diameter - really helped control bead size:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1cc30b3127ccefe82ca92a48d00000030O08IZtXLZszag9 vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Actually, Chris, I think the tube wringers are a little bulky. What you are looking for are paint saver keys, like this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41y5aEN79IL._SX355_.jpg

They can be found here, among other places:

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/painting-supplies/tube-wringers.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Paint-Saver-Keys-Pack-24/dp/B0049UZEOE/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1360240260&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=paint+saver+keys (http://www.amazon.com/Paint-Saver-Keys-Pack-24/dp/B0049UZEOE/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1360240260&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=paint+saver+keys)







Sorry for the hijack. On with the build!

RippyPartsDept
02-07-13, 11:18 AM
Sorry for the hijack. On with the build!

yeah, that was my bad... thanks everyone though... just what i was looking for

daveyhouse
02-07-13, 11:46 AM
No problem because it was still informative. Thanks

And cheaper!!!

daveyhouse
02-09-13, 11:51 AM
Input needed

Okay going over parts that he got and want input on what we might have forgot.
We did forget the serpentine belt and want to get an OEM rear main seal, so there is 2 items for the list already.
Is there any thing else we forgot or should replace while motor is out?

Here is list from top of my head

Engine and trans from Boneyard
Block deglazed and checked-----------Local
Polished Crank------------------------Local
Main Bearings-------------------------Fleabay
Main Bolts----------------------------Rippy
Rod Bearings--------------------------Fleabay
Rod Bolts-----------------------------Rippy
Rings---------------------------------Fleabay
Oil Manifold---------------------------Rippy
Re-manufactured heads---------------Fleabay
Studs for the heads-------------------Tim Carroll
Both Belt Tensioners W/P & Serp.------Rippy
Water Pump--------------------------Autozone
New design W/P cover----------------Rippy
W/P Belt-----------------------------Rippy
Thermostat-------------------------- Rippy
All cooling and heating hoses----------Rippy
Oil Pump------------------------------Rippy
All wear items on timing chains---------Rippy

Speedygman
02-09-13, 11:56 AM
Why not let Tim Carroll do the heads and that way you know it will be done right or if closer to Jake's let him do the heads?

daveyhouse
02-09-13, 12:22 PM
Already purchased the heads.
He has been nickle and dimeing parts since September and now has hopefully enough with tax return to finish.

----------

To date he has spent over $3200 on parts and machine work.

Submariner409
02-09-13, 12:43 PM
Not surprising - It takes money to do a thorough total overhaul job. My Olds 455 marine engines leave here at $6,500 and up.

I have always thought that Jake and Tim Carroll - among others - were selling their work too cheaply.

("But, Sub - My car isn't worth $5,000." Neither is the 1973 Olds Vista Cruiser that just donated another 455 engine for overhaul - and that engine went out of here at $7,250. You gotta pay to play........... this is NOT the engine, but very, very close.............the ported/polished heads alone are $1600)

daveyhouse
02-10-13, 06:41 PM
Okay got the studs in and installed the left head. Gotta love those roll pins that Tim Carroll supplies with the studs.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0137_zps1085ca86.jpg


Hope there is no such thing as too much assembly lube, I figured it was a friction point put it on.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0138_zpsb06f548f.jpg


Put the lifters in, and applied more assembly lube
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0140_zps83c43c3f.jpg


Put the cams on and more lube tighten to to specs
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0141_zps4b44fe9b.jpg


Put the new timing components in set everything in their place.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0143_zps79f21b55.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0145_zps9086799a.jpg

98eldo32v
02-11-13, 12:57 AM
WOW,

You're doing a FANTASTIC job!!!!!

daveyhouse
02-11-13, 01:55 PM
Thanks,

Now we wait on the other head to get here so we can continue.
In the meantime he went to ChinaFreight and got a parts washer, blast cabinet, and a 6" bench grinder. Maybe now I will use less brake parts cleaner, LOL.
Oh and some paint for cosmetics, on his money pit prima donna

daveyhouse
02-15-13, 09:51 PM
Updates.
Blasted the valve covers

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0149_zpsb5c748d8.jpg

Put the studs in right side of the block.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0155_zpsc9e673bb.jpg

Head secured, now time to put the lifters and cams in.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0157_zps45d16ab6.jpg

Cams are in along with all the new timing components from Chris @ Rippy

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0160_zps9925f020.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0159_zpsd7258f9c.jpg

CadillacLuke24
02-16-13, 12:37 AM
Darn near there! Keep it up! You are doing an EXCELLENT job!

vincentm
02-16-13, 01:22 AM
I never get tired of looking at various pics of the timing chains all assembled, just a great engine the Northstar is.

drewsdeville
02-16-13, 02:05 AM
Not surprising - It takes money to do a thorough total overhaul job. My Olds 455 marine engines leave here at $6,500 and up.

I have always thought that Jake and Tim Carroll - among others - were selling their work too cheaply.

("But, Sub - My car isn't worth $5,000." Neither is the 1973 Olds Vista Cruiser that just donated another 455 engine for overhaul - and that engine went out of here at $7,250. You gotta pay to play........... this is NOT the engine, but very, very close.............the ported/polished heads alone are $1600)

but...why? A '73 with the puny smogged J heads and their cute little valves and ports? Worthy of meltdown only unless you want to pony up for some C or F heads, at which point there are far more cost efficient alternatives.

Have you run into any original W30 aluminum intake manifolds?

Submariner409
02-16-13, 11:40 AM
but...why? A '73 with the puny smogged J heads and their cute little valves and ports? Worthy of meltdown only unless you want to pony up for some C or F heads, at which point there are far more cost efficient alternatives.

Have you run into any original W30 aluminum intake manifolds?

I have two W30 manifolds. Better to use the Edelbrock #2151 for low rpm marine work. The only cylinder heads I use are the later K, Ka, G, Ga heads, street ported. Aluminum heads will not support the 150 pounds of cast iron manifolds, iron pipe, fiberglass lagging, and either dry or wet mufflers necessary for marine systems. If you look closely you can see the two pipes and glasspacks at the rear of the engine box, turning up and through the (insulated) canopy top - my 38' deadrise, built in 1969. All 5/4 yellow pine over oak.

When I build a 455 for a car..... 4-4-2 maybe - that's a horse of a different color.

"Doctor Oldsmobile's W30 machine"

Around the Chesapeake Bay, both sides, north to south, Olds 455 engines (mostly in need of overhaul) are a dime a dozen. From the late 60's to maybe 10 years ago they were the engine of choice for the "Chesapeake Bay deadrise", a hand-built workboat of various sizes and configurations. Now the John Deere 6 cyl diesels are the darlings, followed by the NA Cat 3208. I own two in-the-crate brand new 1970 Olds 455's (long block) that I bought for $750 apiece from a boat yard in Deale, MD that bought them from City Olds in Baltimore when it closed many years ago. They're the 11:1 engines and would need thick gaskets or Ga heads to drop to about 9.5 or 10;1 for marine work use.

(Sorry for the threadjack, daveyhouse...................)

drewsdeville
02-16-13, 12:00 PM
I have two W30 manifolds.


$$$$

daveyhouse
02-16-13, 06:44 PM
(Sorry for the threadjack, daveyhouse...................)


No problem, I'm only upset that drewsdeville owns page 7 of my thread. :mad2:

:D I keed I keed.

daveyhouse
02-20-13, 12:20 PM
Okay not much but a little progress.

Got exhaust manifold on the left bank along with the crossover pipe. Put the crank sensors in. Did not put the oil pressure sensor in because I am going to prime the oil system through that port. New front motor mount is also installed.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0164_zps6cadcde5.jpg

We were going to powdercoat the valve covers, but the money train has left. So we just painted them.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0163_zps15c7ffe5.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0162_zps7def6980.jpg


While getting ready to install the coolant pipes I noticed what looked like a small pinhole. So I grabbed a pick from my pick set and poked at it and it went clear through and quadrupled in size.:mad2:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0166_zpsdc49c3b9.jpg

I imagine galvanic corrosion is a big factor in the rust on these parts.(Google is my friend, we are on a first name basis) Am I right Sub? Is that why the valve covers look like they have cancer in certain areas?

Submariner409
02-20-13, 04:09 PM
Your question on galvanic action: York, PA - winter - ice - snow - salt. Very possible, but a pinhole from the inside is usualy neglected coolant. The "steel" in those heater pipes is about the same quality as Japanese truck "steel" - beercan. A good cleaning, prime and two coats of Rustoleum would be beneficial.

For a real scary eye-opening, on one of these quick temperature change mornings when the car is covered in condensation, pop the hood and take a look at your prize engine. Don't cry.

Ranger
02-20-13, 04:59 PM
I don't know what it is about those damned heater pipes. They are tucked up high and dry. Why they rust through is beyond me. Hell, even Japanese peanut butter steel should hold up there, especially with a coat of paint on them. :annoyed:

daveyhouse
02-20-13, 05:24 PM
I'm just glad I caught it when I did. I was at the boneyard the other day trying to get the clamps that hold them on. You can't even access them. I couldn't imagine trying to change the pipes in the car.

98eldo32v
02-20-13, 05:47 PM
Daveyhouse,

How did you guys get the valve covers so clean? What did you use to blast them with?

----------

By the way,

Fantastic job........keep up the great work.

daveyhouse
02-24-13, 12:03 AM
Daveyhouse,

How did you guys get the valve covers so clean? What did you use to blast them with?

----------

By the way,

Fantastic job........keep up the great work.

Got the blast cabinet from Harbor Freight. Should have gotten the biggest one they had because the valve cover barely fit into next to largest cabinet. Which made it very hard to blast the ends of the covers.
Also you NEED a air dryer before it goes into the cabinet, I learned the hard way after multiple clogs from condensation. I also put window screen under the cabinet's screen because of debris clogs. It's working good now, but you need a compressor that can put out a high cfm at 100psi to maintain pressure. Mine cycles at 90 but runs constant at 100 but keeps up.

Hope to have more updates next weekend, have to order the pipes I need from Rippy. Hope they make here by the weekend.

Submariner409
02-24-13, 11:35 AM
daveyhouse, When you get out from under the engine job, do some research into blasting with crystalline baking soda .......... it's the new (environmental)(no water pollution) darling of the boat repair industry, but the darn stuff does beautiful work on metals.

daveyhouse
02-24-13, 11:39 AM
I saw they had soda at Harbor Freight. Good stuff to use on steel and aluminum huh?

daveyhouse
03-02-13, 11:04 AM
Update
Got new water pipes from Chris @ Rippy, thank you again sir.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0173_zps9e187f6a.jpg


Front cover installed

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0174_zps33c74a42.jpg

Idler pulley installed along with new tensioner pulley again from Chris

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0176_zps030ea813.jpg

Ac comp and brackets installed. Just hope I don't have to remove to reinstall the engine because I pulled the motor out the top with the alternator and compressor already removed. Although I am getting used to removing a part I just installed so I can put another part on.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0177_zps9c3f0415.jpg

daveyhouse
03-02-13, 11:44 AM
Didn't want install alternator without going over it. Since the rectifier is the most common failure on them we opted to replace that with a heavy duty model that can handle up to 200 amp.
Started by removing the pulley and then marking the case halves so I can put them back together the way they came apart.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0178_zpsa14096cf.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0181_zps97efdb77.jpg

Remove the four bolts that hold it together and a couple taps on the ears and it came apart.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0180_zps7ba3de70.jpg

Removed the nuts attaching the stator to the rectifier

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0182_zps85db24d6.jpg

Then held onto the stator while tapping on the back case and out it came.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0183_zps66b7db48.jpg

A pic so I know where all the screws go. Some are grounding bolts and some are insulated. One insulated bolt is longer that attaches the regulator to the rectifier.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0184_zpsfcfe4919.jpg

daveyhouse
03-02-13, 11:45 AM
Looks like the brushes are too worn, now they are on the list.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0193_zpsd18c577e.jpg

Cleaned the slip ring with 400 grit and then with 800 grit.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0192_zpsa4225849.jpg

Degreased the back case and put it in the blast cabinet.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0189_zps301d18d6.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0190_zpsd804cbf5.jpg

Ranger
03-02-13, 12:22 PM
Purdy! Nice work. :thumbsup:

vincentm
03-02-13, 12:34 PM
Dave, here's a thread on a beuatiful northstar rebuild for a Fiero, note the Alternator restoration/Rebuild:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000116-6.html

daveyhouse
03-02-13, 12:43 PM
Dave, here's a thread on a beuatiful northstar rebuild for a Fiero, note the Alternator restoration/Rebuild:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000116-6.html

LOL funny you should mention that, I have that exact same page bookmarked. (I also own 2 fieros, one with a SBC) Except he put his rectifier insulator in upside down. I'm sure it doesn't hurt anything. Bloozberry has one B E A U tiful engine. Did you see the other cars in his garage?. That was alot of polishing.

----------

Just to save a buck, I will be installing rear main seal in the same manner .

CadillacLuke24
03-02-13, 04:46 PM
You have 2 Fieros and a DeVille?

:thumbsup:

EXCELLENT work on the engine! Keep it up!

stoveguyy
03-02-13, 06:53 PM
R u changing O2 sensors also? While motor is out. Easy

daveyhouse
03-02-13, 08:54 PM
That would be a couple hundred more $$. What I will do is remove all them while it is out and apply a little anti-seize just to make it little easier when the time comes. Hopefully none are bad.

vincentm
03-02-13, 09:50 PM
Did you repalce the TCC Solenoids while the engine is out?

daveyhouse
03-02-13, 10:35 PM
No, haven't touched the tranny as it is still in the car. Are they easily accessible?

----------

Just found a video posted by Ranger here http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-tech-tips/243420-tcc-solenoid-car-replacement.html

Are these solenoids known problems on the 98?

Ranger
03-02-13, 11:25 PM
TCC solenoid is a piece of cake with the drivetrain out. A real bitch with it in. Not a real common failure on a '98, but it's known as the $50 part buried $2000 deep in the trans (when the drivetrain is installed) . Tough call. Clint (Dirty Harry) Eastwood comes to mind. "Do ya feel luck?"

daveyhouse
03-03-13, 08:11 PM
Okay, I ordered a tcc solenoid from transmissionpartsusa dot com and just added it my order that I have for my next adventure. Rebuiding a 4R70W Transmission out of a 98 Mercury Mountaineer AWD with a 5.0 engine, I bought for $300 because of tranny problems. :D
Back to the alternator.
I was cleaning a contact on the capacitor and flipped to do the other side not realizing it had an insulator on the other side.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0195_zps5c99f3b2.jpg

So I used the head off a wall anchor, I think it will work fust fine.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0200_zpsb74b15bb.jpg

Got the brush soldered onto the regulator.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0197_zps33738e2c.jpg

Used a toothpick to hold the brushes in place

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0198_zpsfeb7c789.jpg

Put the innards back in with new HD rectifier and new brushes

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0201_zps11aac93c.jpg

Backside pic. It's not pretty like the Bloozberry rebuild on the fiero site but it's definitely better looking than it was.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0202_zpsf48bd59b.jpg

RippyPartsDept
03-03-13, 09:38 PM
Pre-2000 engines don't have a TCC problem. At least not at nearly the rate that 2000-2005 has.

daveyhouse
03-03-13, 09:42 PM
Thanks Chris.
Another question how would I re-seal that pan being that you are unable to remove the pan all the way while it is in the car. If I can seal it properly and the part comes before I am ready to re-install the motor I will do it just for one less problem down the road for him.

Ranger
03-03-13, 10:59 PM
Pre-2000 engines don't have a TCC problem. At least not at nearly the rate that 2000-2005 has.
True. That begs the question, why? What was changed?

RippyPartsDept
03-04-13, 11:21 AM
good questions guys ... i'm not really sure about either of them

vincentm
03-04-13, 01:04 PM
True. That begs the question, why? What was changed?

Made in Mexico OEM solenoids would be my only guess

RippyPartsDept
03-04-13, 01:19 PM
same solenoid for the pre-2000
same torque converters

gotta be something else different in there
maybe PCM tuning for TC lockup differently?

daveyhouse
03-04-13, 10:51 PM
Okay alternator is back together and installed

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0205_zps47d5768e.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0206_zps791ee3d2.jpg

Time to install the new seal from Chris @ Rippy thank you again sir. I remember seeing people having problems with non oem rear seals somewhere on this site, so we wanted the real deal for something we never want see again. Yes I cheaped out on the install but I couldn't see paying so much money to use a tool one time.
We went to Lowes and bought a short piece of 4" pvc pipe and four 2" metric bolts to fit into the crank. The pics will show how I cheated.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0207_zpsd39e2bf9.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0208_zps35c4fc1d.jpg

Once I ran out of threads I installed washers to drive the rest of the way.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0209_zps83806001.jpg

Now for the third time trying to prime the oil system the Bill Buttermore way (with a weed sprayer), I realized I still cannot prime because I was getting oil coming out the holes for the flywheel bolts. My black cloud strikes again. LOL

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0211_zpsfea360c3.jpg

stoveguyy
03-05-13, 10:38 AM
I forgot why u pulled motor? Headgaskets?

daveyhouse
03-05-13, 12:50 PM
Yes, My son bought the car with known head gasket problem. We trailered the car home because it was already partly disassembled when we got it. If I knew then what I know now. LOL Back then I said headgaskets? no problem. Kicking myself for that one now.

At least he doesn't have to pay a mechanic, he's been buying all the parts with his own money which isn't easy @ 9.00hr. That's why this build is taking so long, and also cold temps working on this out in the weather. I think we are taking care of everything with exception of the oxy sensors.

The previous owner tried fixing himself and botched the block and left head, this is a link to the original motor that was in the car http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/263867-worst-rusty-engine-you-have-seen.html so we had to get another engine from a bone yard.
Hope I get everything back to where it belongs.

vincentm
03-05-13, 01:10 PM
Oh, now i remember that thread, holy ****

daveyhouse
03-05-13, 07:12 PM
Okay went to Napa and got high temp thread sealant with PTFE and installed the new flywheel bolts from Chris @ Rippy (Another Plug for you sir:D)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0212_zps94de136d.jpg

Finally I was able to prime the oil with the Hi-Tech priming system. A $10.00 priming pump from Lowe's :D

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0213_zps5000b8aa.jpg

It is attached to the oil pressure port on the oil filter adapter. Learned that from one of AJxtcman's post's. He recommends at least 2 quarts with this procedure I filled the whole system like that until I was half way up the dipstick.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0214_zps97715afe.jpg

Tightened the Harmonic balancer bolt to 37' lbs + 120 degrees. I locked the flywheel likes this.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0215_zpsf90621d4.jpg

RippyPartsDept
03-05-13, 09:54 PM
You're too kind.

Did I tell you I love this thread?

CadillacLuke24
03-06-13, 01:23 AM
You're too kind.

Did I tell you I love this thread?

You're one cool dude! :D You deserve the recognition :thumbsup:

daveyhouse
03-06-13, 12:12 PM
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
You're one cool dude! :D You deserve the recognition :thumbsup:
Definitely, Chris has taken care of our every need.
We have a dealer here, but Chris supports the forum, so we support him.:leghump::D

RippyPartsDept
03-06-13, 01:01 PM
:leghump::D

:histeric:

daveyhouse
03-08-13, 12:25 AM
Update:
Hooked up the starter with the new battery he bought because the one that came that came with the car was shot. I'm glad I put assembly lube on every moving part, because I could not get oil flowing. i thought priming the system the way I did would have eliminated the oil priming problem. (Black cloud strikes again!) I must have did at least 10 thirty second runs on the starter. With a fan on the starter to cool it faster between tries.

Keep in mind that I had no spark plugs installed, so there was no pressure on the rod and main bearings, just free spinning. I opened one of the cam flow ports for less resistance to allow oil through, but I got nothing.

So then I put in 2 more gallons for a total of 4 gallons in the system. It took about ten more tries till I finally got oil flowing. I was starting to get worried that I did something wrong. I was about to tear the pump off again and put Vaseline in it. Then I finally got oil flowing. I then did all four cam flow ports with a hose hooked to each one at a time till I got oil through all of them. When it flows, it really flows, that thing puts out some volume let me tell you.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0223_zps7ee33017.jpg

I then closed them off with the PTFE thread sealant on all plugs and checked for pressure, I got the needle bouncing from 70 to 75 psi off of the starter free spinning. This gauge was hooked up to the same port that I primed through. (oil pressure switch port)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0222_zpsda2663b3.jpg

I was then satisfied and got the new spark plugs out and gapped them to .050, applied anti-seize to the threads, and dielectric grease to the contacts, and installed. Then put the new plug wires on from CHRIS @ RIPPPY CADILLAC :D Just to keep dust out of the holes.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0229_zps6396a1b1.jpg

Started to do the reinstall and I failed at that, so I came in and got drunk, screw it, not my car, LOL! Maybe tomorrow or Staurday, Stay tuned.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0230_zps14b2135e.jpg

Ranger
03-08-13, 12:26 AM
Now for the third time trying to prime the oil system the Bill Buttermore way (with a weed sprayer),
:hmm: Where do I know that name from? Bonneville site?

daveyhouse
03-08-13, 12:38 AM
fiero.nl or maybe, turbododge.com, or automotiveforums.com/
maybe even craiglist who knows, LOL it is kind of unique.

----------

OH, OH, The buttermore name, duh. mmmm donuts, there goes my education.

CadillacLuke24
03-08-13, 01:02 AM
Bill rebuilt a Northstar in his 99 (i think?) DeVille on this really cool site, CadillacOwners.com :D

daveyhouse
03-08-13, 01:16 AM
Actually it was just last year started here http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/257508-diy-northstar-head-gasket-crankcase-leak.html

----------

I better stop while I am conscious.:alchi:

Ranger
03-08-13, 12:07 PM
Ahh, that was it. I knew that name was familiar. Thank you!

daveyhouse
03-09-13, 12:06 AM
Progress!
Finally got the motor to mate with the tranny. After many hours of fighting it last night, and an hour tonight, I thought maybe I should try removing the motor mount from the engine.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0231_zps58295a09.jpg

I also removed the harmonic balancer BOLT earlier because that was the first thing that created problems for me.

Then came the silver lining of my black cloud, that thing slid right together. So I put some medium strength thread locker on the bolts and torqued them to spec.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0233_zps89b9d950.jpg

I did remove the alternator and ac/comp because I saw that there was not going to be enough room, now I am glad that I did. As mentioned earlier I am getting used to taking something back off to put something else on.

Sad part is the motor is suffering battle wounds going in. Now I am glad he did not spend the money on powder coating.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0234_zps5a5be5bc.jpg

Anyway back inside to hang with the captain (100 proof:D). Iv'e been laid off since Christmas so I am allowed to drink my sorrows away, I mean celebrate the engine mating.

Supposed to be nice weekend so hopefully have more updates for you guys.

Submariner409
03-09-13, 11:00 AM
If the engine mates, what will you name the result ?

RippyPartsDept
03-09-13, 11:35 AM
:histeric:

daveyhouse
03-09-13, 12:09 PM
I'm sure it would be something R rated and would have to be deleted from the forum.:bonkers:

Submariner409
03-09-13, 12:57 PM
Are you trying to tell us that this overhaul job has been done without magic words ??? (Call Guinness World Records - quickly !)

- if you need any, I have a bourbon case filled with them - all sizes, shapes, languages and colors. Free for the asking .........

daveyhouse
03-09-13, 08:14 PM
New torque converter bolts (from Chris) installed

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0236_zps85a37168.jpg

Got that PIA water log installed, after putting thread sealant on all the bolts. Then I realized I should have installed that little hose on the end first.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0238_zps3cbf1dc2.jpg

The o-ring for the water that came with gasket kit was a little too large. The new water pump from AZ had a o-ring that came with but was a little too small, so I stretched it a little coated it with oil and installed. Then put pump on.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0237_zpse117396a.jpg

New belt and belt tensioner from Chris

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0239_zps63152dff.jpg

My back was hurting so I had to give it rest, back at it tomorrow

Ranger
03-09-13, 10:09 PM
:shocked2: After all this work you used an AZ Don'tLast water pump?

daveyhouse
03-10-13, 10:49 AM
Yeah but after all this, it will be an easy change. It was one of the first things he bought last July. Then after more knowledge we learned the importance of genuine gm. That's when (Chris at Rippy Cadillac:D) gets a call.

daveyhouse
03-12-13, 10:46 AM
Got the intake and replaced all the o-rings on the injectors, then took off throttle body to clean.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0254_zps0a2b4b00.jpg

Cleaned carb and choke cleaner and a soft brass brush and ended up with this.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0256_zps0dd6fe15.jpg

Installed the alternator and ac/pump, again

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0241_zps758af937.jpg

New thermostat and housing from Chris

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0244_zps84c517ea.jpg

Intake installed. I was going to take the stainless fuel rail from the boneyard engine but quick connect connections went in a different direction so we were unable to use it.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0258_zps9f0e9db3.jpg

Put the radiator and condenser in and after many failed attempts at trying to bolt the upper support in, I found out why every time I raised the support to bolt it in the rad would fall towards the engine. WTF. After about six attempts I stepped back out of frustration and saw this.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0261_zpsaf759089.jpg

That dumb SOB that tried to fix this car the first must of tried to lift the car by that cross member. Thats the conclusion I came to anyway, because there is a kink in it where it looked like a hook from a chain was lifting it.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0262_zps9fe776e5.jpg

daveyhouse
03-12-13, 10:54 AM
So got a 2X4 laid it across the top and a sledgehammer and started relieving some built up anger, I mean attempting to beat the cross member down.
After anger management class was over I ended up with this. Now I am sure he will probably need new light bulbs.
At least the rad stays in now and doesn't fall back into the motor.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0263_zps7b96a93a.jpg

Started to install the reservoir tank and then noticed that the nipple that little line that comes across the intake connects to is broke. I never saw until I grabbed it, he had reattached with a good rubber glue probably windshield glue or something because it was to good of a hold for silicone. Well that is not gonna work on a pressurized system in my book. So off to the bone yard.

Ranger
03-12-13, 11:02 AM
So got a 2X4 laid it across the top and a sledgehammer and started relieving some built up anger, I mean attempting to beat the cross member down.
After anger management class was over I ended up with this.
When fineness fails, brute force prevails. :thumbsup:

Submariner409
03-12-13, 12:34 PM
The white marker numbers on the hoodlatch brace lead me to believe that's a junkyard replacement piece.

daveyhouse
03-12-13, 01:20 PM
The white marker numbers on the hoodlatch brace lead me to believe that's a junkyard replacement piece.

Yes I thought the same thing when I took the picture, but I think it was just the brace that was replaced. I didn't see any evidence that the cross member was disturbed at the ends. I will take a closer look when I get back at it.

We just got back from the bone yard with replacement tank and a MAF sensor.

We wanted to get a spare wheel and tire so he wouldn't have to deal with a donut spare when the time came. Problem was they removed all wheels from all cars. It's a u-pull so I guess they do it for insurance reasons, cause all cars are sitting on rotors.

The yard I like where we got the motor from is 2 hours away and not worth the drive for what we needed. All of their cars are sitting on concrete dead-man blocks, and wheels are on. The undersides are easily accessible. http://www.joesusedautoparts.com/EZPull.html

rodnok01
03-12-13, 02:18 PM
I think Sub's saying it was in an accident and the center brace was replaced. I agree, looks like an accident and that brace you beat down was bent and not fixed or replaced as it should have been.

daveyhouse
03-13-13, 12:20 AM
PS pump installed and new serpentine belt from you guessed it (Chris @ Rippy Cadillac :D) oh yeah new upper and lower radiator hoses from Chris also

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0269_zps78ecb89a.jpg

I bypassed the heater core with one the old heater hoses because I have them new from Chris also. The reason I bypassed the heater core was because I did not want any of the garbage that may be in their getting into the rest of the system. Once the car is running, we will take it out front so so I can put the hose to the core and flush it.
It looks like the hose kinked, but it is still collapsible.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0268_zps3f298484.jpg

We went with 2 gallons of peak full strength and 2 gallons of distilled water for a 50/50 mix and filled the system to the best of my abilities.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/caddy/IMAG0266_zpsb30d6e65.jpg

Hooked the new battery and hit the key and click is all I got. Now we are on hold for a rebuild kit for the starter. Hope it comes soon. Order already placed from http://rebuilderinabox.com/

----------

Oh another thing, because I have to remove the intake again, what are the chances of me reusing the intake gaskets because it never heat cycled, and I imagine they will relax for a couples days until the starter is done?

vincentm
03-13-13, 12:33 AM
If the gaskets for the manifold are still new, you can re-use them. GM TSB states that they can be re used

daveyhouse
03-13-13, 12:34 AM
good to know, thank you sir.

Manic Mechanic
03-13-13, 12:40 AM
You can reuse them without fear. I've reused head gaskets that were never ran. Just make sure that they stay in place. On the starter, you are a die-hard old schooler. I would have just ordered another one and stuck it in the box as a core or if money was the issue picked up a salvage part.

Vernon

daveyhouse
03-13-13, 12:52 AM
Yeah I learned the hard way not to buy electrical items from junk yard. Money is an issue at this point, $300 starter vs $36 for a rebuild kit that I feel confident that I can do I'm cheapen out again. Sorry Chris LOL

daveyhouse
03-13-13, 09:23 PM
Okay getting a starter ready for the rebuild kit when it gets here. This the starter we are using, it came off the bone yard motor that we rebuilt.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0270_zpse5c4d34f.jpg

Removed the nuts holding the wires on.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0272_zpse2ffe662.jpg

Removed the bolts holding the solenoid on. I think he mentioned it takes an E5 socket I was able to get them with a 1/4" drive 4mm socket. Ones of the bolts snapped, that's ok we have another starter to steal one from.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0274_zps08fffa98.jpg

Removed the bolts that hold the brush assembly in place these are an E6, I forget what I used, and the bolts holding the starter together.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0276_zpsea27d9cb.jpg

Gave her a pull and got this

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0278_zpsb22d9552.jpg

Another pull got us this

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0282_zps695db63a.jpg

Pulled the armature out of the magnetic housing.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0285_zps02508e3a.jpg

daveyhouse
03-13-13, 09:26 PM
Pull the brush assembly out


http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0286_zps37ba43c7.jpg

UH OH!

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0289_zps335db2a1.jpg

Pry this thingamajig out

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0290_zpsb8728795.jpg

Our planetary gears are now exposed

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0291_zps8b99309f.jpg

Pull the gears out

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0294_zps39bf6e7a.jpg

Pried the water seal out

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0296_zpsd7ae63a0.jpg

Attempt to tap the guts out no go.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0299_zps8734a738.jpg

daveyhouse
03-13-13, 09:35 PM
On with brute force carefully

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0300_zps34048486.jpg

Oh it wants more, gonna fight me to the end.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0301_zps4c8ed099.jpg

It's out

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0303_zpsf94876be.jpg

Now to remove the bendix. Start by removing the tophat of the spring clip housing. (poorly chosen words?)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0305_zps311a46a6.jpg

Then take a pair of channel locks and knock the clip housing down off of the clip.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0307_zpsc400d9df.jpg

Spring clip is now exposed.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0308_zps2cd8001a.jpg

I'm sure I did this wrong but I just could not get a bite on it with the channel locks. So I pried it off with a small screwdriver.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0310_zps03a4ad73.jpg

daveyhouse
03-13-13, 09:47 PM
Bendix is now removed and here is my basket case. I think I tell my son he has to put it back together and then walk away. LOL

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0312_zpsa83ca65c.jpg

The commutator was all tarnished up, I guess from the brush ride.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0314_zps598927e8.jpg

So I took sand paper to it. Started with 400 grit then 800 grit, and finished off with 1200 grit.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0315_zpsdac3a4af.jpg

Cleaned the other gunk off with carb and choke cleaner and a soft brass brush the compressed air.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0316_zpse7721a6a.jpg

We ended up with this result.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0318_zps97fdbc7b.jpg

Used a small 1/4" drive socket to and small hammer, oh wait I lost my hammer in this messy garage somewhere. So some gingerly taps with this worked to get the needle bearing out.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0331_zps1d4c672d.jpg

Put the magnetic housing in the blast cabinet

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0322_zpsb2707ac0.jpg

daveyhouse
03-13-13, 09:53 PM
Blasted some other parts also. Just the brush housing,the planetary gear plate, and nose of the starter.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0334_zpsc1a3b42d.jpg

Here I go getting stupid again. Painting a part that will never be seen.
Anyway put some die-electric grease on spots needed for ground. The brush assembly must have good ground through these bolt holes.That way when after the paint has dried just a quick wipe should leave me with bare metal.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter/IMAG0335_zpsb79041e7.jpg

Well that is enough for today. I hear the Captain calling.:D

Ranger
03-13-13, 10:37 PM
Man, when you say "rebuild", you DO mean rebuild.

RippyPartsDept
03-14-13, 12:14 AM
.... and there i was thinking that i couldn't love this thread any more ... :thumbsup:

vincentm
03-14-13, 12:17 AM
Srsly though, great thread, all the fine points are being worked out with a fine tooth comb, if my sons was old enough to drive and i had the skills, i'd definately rebuild him a Northstar Caddy

stoveguyy
03-14-13, 11:33 AM
U got junkyard starter? Where is original starter? Keep forgetting u had bad/flood motor? About 300 posts ago.

daveyhouse
03-14-13, 09:12 PM
Thanks guys


U got junkyard starter? Where is original starter? Keep forgetting u had bad/flood motor? About 300 posts ago.

Yeah the junkyard engine came complete w/everything. Alt Ac Ps even tranny still attached for 160 and they removed it and loaded it on the truck I borrowed from work.

The original starter is the one that is in the engine now and left us down. I did use it to crank the engine over with no compression before putting the engine back in. I did that to make sure I was getting oil flowing after priming. Although I did think it sounded weak with no compression in the cylinders.

Anyway the starter is out and tore apart, pics to follow.

----------

So I took the starter out today to tear apart and hopefully see some damage, but I didn't.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/starter%202/IMAG0338_zps13de5e32.jpg

I was expecting to see the commutator burnt or melted, but the only damage I see is some scoring.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/starter%202/IMAG0341_zps7e01c252.jpg

I must of had a bad connection somewhere??? Every connection that I disturbed, I clean with wire wheel and applied dielectric grease.

Exploded view

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/starter%202/IMAG0340_zps54645ebf.jpg

Now this starter does have a different housing than the other one. The magnetic housing is longer, and there is no brush holder housing, it is incorporated into the magnetic housing. Leaving just a cap on the back end of the starter. The over all length and nose are the same, along with inside components for the most part.
The parts that are different will have no affect on the type of rebuild parts that come in the kit.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/starter%202/IMAG0342_zps2870b916.jpg


Our rebuild kit is expected to arrive Saturday due to a mishap of stock, but he is giving me a discount on my next order. Which I will take him up on when I attempt that tranny rebuild on the Mountaineer I bought. His name is Michael and seems to be a down to earth guy that will work with in you in any way he can. He has been in constant contact through e-mail every step of the way, giving me tips, suggestions, and updates.
His communication is second to none.

I will try to do a thorough rebuild with lots of pics for you guys. It's definitely worth the cost difference. If you can get to the starter on these motors you are definitely capable of rebuilding the starter.
I just might go to bone-yard to pick a couple, rebuild them and sell em. :eyebrow:

daveyhouse
03-17-13, 04:21 PM
Package came in the mail on Saturday from Michael at http://rebuilderinabox.com/ The price for this kit was $36.00 including shipping for my location, might be different elsewhere IDK

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0345_zps929fdd33.jpg

This is what you get with his rebuild kit. A new solenoid, bendix, lock ring, for the bendix along with housing and cap for the ring, brush assembly, and 2 different size bushings. One for if you had a needle bearing and the other is you didn't have a needle bearing.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0348_zps9c495bff.jpg

I started by putting in the proper sized bushing with the broad end of a 3/8" extension. Then tapping with a hammer.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0358_zps048f8103.jpg

I put white lithium grease (we will call it WLG) on the sliding part of the bendix then installed.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0372_zps0d042e5e.jpg

Put the lock ring housing on then the lock ring, I used if I remember a 12mm socket to get the ring started.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0375_zps49896f20.jpg

Then pushed the lock ring to one side and used a pair of channel locks to lift the housing up around the ring, once started just chase the housing around until it is lock on. Once that is on you can put on that tophat.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0377_zps4e86989d.jpg

Then put the yoke on for the solenoid. It can obviously only go on 2 ways but only one correct. The solenoid must hook into where the arrow is marked, if you put it on backwards it will be unable to hook onto it and just slip off.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0382_zpsd88ddb2f.jpg

daveyhouse
03-17-13, 04:32 PM
I put WLG on the shaft that goes into the new bushing in the nose, then put the assembly in.
Put WLG on the spindles for the planetary gears.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0390_zpsff44d696.jpg

Installed the gears and put plenty more of WLG on, then install the water seal.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0404_zpsa5a39dc4.jpg

Then on with the gear cover

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0402_zps0afbb71d.jpg

Now onto the magnet housing. Because this starter is different from the other starter, there are different size tabs on the ends. I would imagine this is for polarity reasons. That way you don't put it on backwards and have it run backwards. I guess they put that on there just for me, because of my black cloud.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0409_zpsaa1ce8c2.jpg

You have to hold the armature as it goes in because of the strong magnetic pull so I could not take a pic while doing it.
Now that is in you can install the brush assembly. There is a disk to hold the brushes in place while insert it. It will push up and out as you install.
You can see in the pic the black ring pushing out the top.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0412_zps3ae228b3.jpg

I then put more WLG on the splines before inserting into the front half of the starter.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0417_zps45c57848.jpg

More to follow stay tuned.

daveyhouse
03-17-13, 06:55 PM
When securing the brush housing you will probably need to stick a precision screwdriver in one of the holes to align the brush assembly with mounting holes.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0413_zpsb8018d01.jpg

After starter is all back together put the bendix in the full engaged position as if were starting.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0418_zps9a8517a1.jpg

That will bring the yoke closer to the solenoid, you then can engage the solenoid shaft on the yoke and secure

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0419_zpsc6a7c63f.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0420_zpsada6ab7a.jpg

We end up with this.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/Starter%20assemble/IMAG0421_zpsbd00b020.jpg

When finished, hook a power line to it, ground and jump the solenoid to make sure everything is in working order. Oh and keep your hands and arms inside the vehicle until the ride comes to a complete stop. You can use your foot to stand on the starter for the test so it don't walk and jump away like a washing machine with an attitude.

daveyhouse
03-17-13, 07:25 PM
Here comes my black cloud.

I installed the starter hooked everything up primed the fuel system, told my son go for it. Screech/grind, what the h@ll was that noise? Tapped the key one more time same thing. Sounded like an evil super drill. Time to walk away for the night.

So I went back out today, tore it back down again to see what is going on.

I find this
Now why is the bendix not meshing with the flexplate? So I reinstalled the starter while holding up on it???, shorted the solenoid and got the same outcome.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/more%20starter%20problems/IMAG0430_zps3ad4ee0b.jpg


Take it back out and tear it down so I could compare the bendix to the old one. AH HA There's my problem.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/more%20starter%20problems/IMAG0431_zps42a1a596.jpg

Now only is the diameter different but so is the tooth count. The new one has 11 teeth and the old one has 9

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/more%20starter%20problems/IMAG0436_zpsacc3fdfa.jpg

So I figured I would take the better of the two old bendix's and use that one. (black cloud starts lingering) They are different also.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/more%20starter%20problems/IMAG0437_zps5bfdf994.jpg

Different housings equal different bendix's, I will have to inform him on this dilemma. The bendix size might have something to do with the starter being mounted where it is, as the tranny does have another starter location that is not used.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/more%20starter%20problems/IMAG0439_zps210e0e4a.jpg

So I select the bendix that is compatible with my cloud I mean starter and reassemble. Short the solenoid and eureka, it cranks. So I continue to put the top of the engine together AGAIN, prime the fuel and crank. It fired off immediately, I'm a talking almost just a tap of the key.
Which only opened a new can of worms for me. More on that tonight or tomorrow. I'm going to need some professional opinions on this next endeavor.

rodnok01
03-17-13, 09:33 PM
Glad I'm not paying you an hourly rate for this job. You have my kind of luck with most projects, Murphy and I are very good friends.
Can't wait for the next "dark cloud" installment.

daveyhouse
03-17-13, 11:14 PM
Yeah, Murph and myself are on a first name basis.

----------

If I was doing this for a living, you would see me on the corner with sign.

----------

Okay before I even tried starting it I hooked up my laptop to check for any codes set. There was none so I moved on.

Started the engine, it fired right up but is a rough idle, still no coeds set. When I tried to accelerating the engine, it would just fall on its face and bog down. I never could get the thing over 1200 rpm. The more I tried the more it fell

We then got a code P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
Cleared the code and tried again. Temp is holding fine and fans come slow around 220 something. No antifreeze oil leaks yet.

Then comes code P0307 Cylinder 7 Misfire Detected
Cleared the code and tried again.

This last time I got code P1108 BARO to MAP Sensor Comparison Too High
I don’t know if it was because I had the sensor from the airbox unplugged or not. This entire time I cannot throttle up the engine, without it bogging out.

I am beginning to wonder if the catalytic convertor is clogged.
I will post a vid of the oxy sensor reading hopefully tonight. It’s not high tech but maybe somebody can make something out of it.[COLOR="Silver"]

----------


Lets see if this works


http://s100.beta.photobucket.com/user/daveyhouse/media/run%20time/VIDEO0009_zpsc72ec5c1.mp4.html

and here is another


http://s100.beta.photobucket.com/user/daveyhouse/media/run%20time/VIDEO0010_zpsdb0bd432.mp4.html

If you notice the fuel trim is the blue bars on the left window. The upper one looks like it rides maxed out, once the it goes into closed loop

CadillacLuke24
03-18-13, 02:53 AM
Start with the basics. "Falls on its face and bogs down"? Is the engine getting fuel? How's the FPR?

ALL of the connections FOR EVERYTHING snug, tight and clean?

daveyhouse
03-18-13, 03:33 PM
Thanks Luke, I couldn't find my gauge I used to test the oil pressure. I found an old air gauge hooked it up and got 50-55lbs. Started the engine and pressure was same but barely able to idle, except this time it backfired and died. Started again backfired and died again. Started a third just so we could shut it off with key.

I was always taught if you could start it, it would suck any fire back into the engine and decrease risk of fire. I almost lost my sbc fiero because of a backfire (carbed), but I couldn't suck the fire back in. Ruined a coat on that one, but got the fire out.

I did check the vacuum ports behind the throttle body and they all have vacuum so none of them are clogged.
Guess I'll start swapping sensors off the salvage motor one at a time. Starting with the map sensor.

daveyhouse
03-18-13, 05:41 PM
Changed map sensor no difference, changed iac / same, changed maf / same.
Check codes from onboard DTC WOW!!! Retrieved 25 codes, but only 2 were PCM, P1108 and P1599. Wrote all codes down as they all said they were history and cleared all. Tried again, rough idle backfire and shutdown. P1599 comes back and says History?, but it just happened.

I am going to pull the computer out of the box, check connections and apply dielectric grease there.

----------

List of codes coming, stay tuned

rodnok01
03-18-13, 05:54 PM
Did you hook the ground up for the coli packs. Gets left off alot and causes all kinds of issues. I agree with Luke about taking off all the connectors and inspecting them, sounds like one might have a bent pin or not making a good connection.

daveyhouse
03-18-13, 06:13 PM
Yep, clean all metal contacts to bare metal along with copper ends to shiny new copper applied dielectric grease, and grounded from coil pack base to bolt on corner of head just behind ps pump. I took a pic of where that came from and reinstalled to same location.
Yeah i'm kinda dielectric grease whore:D

Keep em coming / I'm still typing the code list LOL

----------

It has arrived LOL
NOTE THESE ALL WERE STORED AS HISTORY

PCM POWER CONTROL MODULE

DTC P1108 BARO to MAP Sensor Comparison Too High
DTC P1599 Engine Stall or Near Stall Detected


IPC INSTRUMENT PANEL

DTC B1552 Loss of BCM Keep Alive Memory


ACM AIR CONDITIONING

DTC B1348 Very Low A/C Refrigerant Pressure


SDM AIR BAGS

DTC B1136 Discr. Sensor Open or Short to Voltage
DTC B1147 Driver Side Air Bag System Malfunction
B1161 is "Lamp Circuit Failure" for the Airbag light / had search harder for that one
DTC B1327 Device Power #1 (Low Current #1) Circuit Low


TCS TRACTION CONTROL

DTC C1255 EBTCM Internal Malfunction


PZM BODY CONTROL MODULE

DTC B1552 Loss of BCM Keep Alive Memory
DTC B1558 BCM EPROM Checksum Error
DTC B1972 Low Power Driver Fault
DTC B1982 Source/Battery Voltage High
DTC B1983 Device Power 1 Circuit Low
DTC B2470 Daytime Running Lamps Fault
DTC B2472 Low Beam Fault
DTC B2473 High Beam Fault
DTC B2476 Parklamp Fault
DTC U1088 Loss of Communications with SDM


IRC Instrument cluster???

DTC U1300 Class 2 Short to Ground
DTC B1780 Theft Lock Enabled
DTC B1983 Device Power 1 Circuit Low
DTC U1129 Loss of Communications with AMP


RFA INTERGRATED RADIO SYSTEM

DTC U1300 Class 2 Short to Ground


MSM Memory seat module???

DTC B0856 Battery 2 Out of Range
DTC B1983 Device Power 1 Circuit Low
DTC U1300 Class 2 Short to Ground

How's that for a black cloud?

RippyPartsDept
03-18-13, 06:19 PM
those are all current???

drewsdeville
03-18-13, 06:31 PM
The 17 inches of mercury shown in the video should be just fine and doesn't really support the map code. Key on engine off, what does the PCM return for both the MAP output and BARO reference? Similar or very different? The difference in fuel trim between banks is also concerning. It appears that bank 1 is running lean, and that doesnt point to any sensors that have a global effect, lke the map. Whacked fuel trim on one bank, poor running, backfiring...I sure hope it was all timed correctly!

daveyhouse
03-18-13, 06:55 PM
Chris,
They are all history. I edited it, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Drew,
When I have everything back in I will get a reading of key on engine off for you.

I have the ecm out right now, but it looks like it was never disturbed very clean on contacts. The seal held up excellently, I hope I can get it to reseal in the same manner. Yeah I'll be putting dielectric grease on that too just in case.
The other video while I was giving it a little fuel, the mercury increased as high as 25 and change I think.

----------

I need a real scanner, but that won't help if I can't get it running. It is colder now, and it doesn't even want to idle now.
I appreciate the help

drewsdeville
03-18-13, 07:07 PM
The other video while I was giving it a little fuel, the mercury increased as high as 25 and change I think.
Didn't see that... I'd confirm with a regular vacuum gauge. That's not far from regular atmospheric pressure - meaning that if it were true, there'd be essentially no restriction at intake. You sure you didn't shoot a potato gun at the intake out of frustration or forget to install gaskets? :P

daveyhouse
03-18-13, 08:34 PM
I unhooked coil pack and checked cylinder compression in the left bank. After 2 or 3 pumps on the gauge they each went up to 180/185, and they leaked down pretty slow.
Put my hand over intake, and it seems to have good suction, I was worried about timing of the cams.

I might just change out intakes, after seeing what the head and block looked like when we got the car, makes me wonder.

----------

Also plugs in left bank were wet with gas

----------


Didn't see that... I'd confirm with a regular vacuum gauge. That's not far from regular atmospheric pressure - meaning that if it were true, there'd be essentially no restriction at intake. You sure you didn't shoot a potato gun at the intake out of frustration or forget to install gaskets? :P

It did make a deep growling sound like it is drawing alot of air through the throttle body, when it was idling yesterday.

stoveguyy
03-18-13, 09:28 PM
Plug wiring is correct? Funny how motor will idle ok but not rev if order is wrong

daveyhouse
03-18-13, 10:12 PM
I went by numbers on the coil pack I put 2 to cylinder #2 right bank / 3 to cylinder #3 left bank, so forth and so on. Double checked those last night.
It does not even want to idle now, get a couple revolutions, backfire and stop. I'm hoping it's the temperature affecting that.
I would at least get back to idling.

rodnok01
03-18-13, 10:25 PM
just a thought, but what are the differences between y & 9 engine cams and would the wrong cam cause these issues?
It almost sounds like the timing is off.

daveyhouse
03-18-13, 11:19 PM
just a thought, but what are the differences between y & 9 engine cams and would the wrong cam cause these issues?
It almost sounds like the timing is off.

Oh wow, you might be onto something. We did buy remanned heads. We gave the head numbers off the existing heads and we received matching numbers. Tonight I was wondering about the timing not being right. I did not even think about the cams that way.
Anyway to tell the difference on the cams by numbers?
I could go buy a vin 9 ecm from bone yard and see where that gets me. That won't work if only one is wrong. nevermind

----------


The 17 inches of mercury shown in the video should be just fine and doesn't really support the map code. Key on engine off, what does the PCM return for both the MAP output and BARO reference? Similar or very different? The difference in fuel trim between banks is also concerning. It appears that bank 1 is running lean, and that doesnt point to any sensors that have a global effect, lke the map. Whacked fuel trim on one bank, poor running, backfiring...I sure hope it was all timed correctly!

Maybe bank 1 is the one with wrong cam. Now is bank 1 left or right? My luck it is the right bank the one harder to get to, because left bank had gas wet plugs so that one is running rich not lean.

----------

I gotta log off :alchi:
but keep em cuming there gettin good

daveyhouse
03-19-13, 12:19 AM
Okay searching through the forums I found that the vin 9's open sooner and close later than the vin y's.
Found that here http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/122654-northstar-cam-specs.html

Okay back to captain sorry for the interruption. gotta luv spell check.

Manic Mechanic
03-19-13, 12:50 AM
Davey none of us are immune, even pro's go through this all the time, esp. on such a vast job as this. Most times you can't win so when you do it's a celebration. I put over 600 miles on mine in the last three or four weeks and Saturday I noticed my upper radiator hose clamp had never been tightened and the hose was about to pop off. That explains the slow and steady loss of coolant (less than a quart). Then I decided to adjust my shift linkage since it felt vague or loose, well it was. Evidently the trans tech loosened the manual lever on the shaft and never tightened it. So it was just about to fall apart. That's just two, now you know you have company.

There's a lot of information to wade through here, I've been studying it and I watched your videos.
What I hear is an engine that is idling fine (as best I can tell).
What I see it that the bank one O2 reading (rear most head in the car, left if facing the timing chain end) isn't budging above .600mv, meaning it is reading excessive oxygen in the exhaust even with the closed loop fuel trim maxed out giving it all the fuel it can to burn off all of this "read" oxygen. Mean while the Bank 2 sensor (front or right) is reading pretty much perfect.
What I read is that it won't rev. And that you've pulled the plugs on that lean reading bank and they are wet with fuel and that compression is on the high side. That measured compression would support combustion so I'm not sure on the incorrect valve timing yet. When cam timing is off an engine will usually idle pretty rough and you'd have misfires on every cylinder effected. But not being able to rev is something else, if anything the engine should free rev off the other four holes alone. I don't know about that yet, and I'm not sure the two are related.

So why is it doing this (flooding the rear bank but still not burning the oxygen out of the air)? My first thought is that that Bank 1 O2 sensor is extremely biased junk. I mean how does an engine get so far off on only one bank when it idles that smooth and has good compression? What's the history with the O2 sensors? If any of them have been exposed to a blown head gasket style steam treatment then they should get tossed at the first sign of trouble. The Silicone in the coolant will coat and bias the sensor element, making them read way off lean, and therefore destroying them. If you bought new ones take that one back and get another. If you have others from your spare parts collection then swap it with the best spare one. If you have no others swap the O2 between banks and see what then happens with the fuel trims. If the problem reading follows the sensor you know it itself is the problem and not the actual Air/Fuel ratio of Bank 1.

I think your intake may be flooded with fuel and that's why it quit running and starting. Try turning the key on then holding the pedal to the floor and then cranking. This put the fuel injection into "clear flood" mode and shuts down all fuel injectors until you let off the pedal. This will dry out the intake and cylinders while you crank air through them.

Second+ thoughts, I haven't followed your saga from the beginning, just recently. You've mentioned a parts engine and several trips to the salvage yards. Are all of your fuel injectors from the same engine? If so check right now with a flash light that the bank one injectors all have their lower O-ring seals and are sealed in the intake all the way.
This is a transformer style <--my description coil pack engine, therefore I have to ask exactly which spark plugs did you use? Bosch platinum would be the worse choice due to the insulated firing electrodes but usually they work better than that for a few thousand miles.

It could be the valve timing, but let's eliminate sensor error first. As one of the guys mentioned it would be a sensor that effects just the one bank, not a sensor that effects all the same. That leaves the O2, and we see that it reads drastically different from expected. If it is indeed reality then valve timing needs to be investigated on said bank.
The Map code is triggered by the high level of pressure in the intake at idle for more than 11 seconds. This means either that the idle air control was running wide open (the sound you heard) just to run the engine at idle or you have a bank one majority vacuum leak (the missing back row injector o-rings theory). Since the PCM has to see this code setting condition for 11 ticks that kind of rules out it being caused by a random back fire. If it was a clogged cat you would see the same readings and conditions on both banks since there is only one cat. But if you keep running it long enough to get it fully hot like this the cat will clog up soon enough, a lot of that unburned fuel is now burning in the cat. That will melt the ceramic brick closed. So do your testing in short runs like 2 minutes with cool down time (10 minutes) between them.

I'm going to be very busy during the next week, my wifes work car just blew a head gasket at 194K. It's a Pontiac OHC 2.0 that she delivers mail in. Down time is a big deal in this car. Don't know why it blew because it doesn't overheat and is really well maintained even though it is used hard. In any case I'll try to help you guys figure yours out when ever I can.

Vernon

daveyhouse
03-19-13, 01:07 AM
Thank you so much Vernon, for your Lehman terms. I will report back tomorrow with what I have, and findings.
I'm sorry you had to write so much, but it all made sense.

stoveguyy
03-19-13, 11:20 AM
U did have the intake on/off to fix the starter. R u sure the injector o-rings are seated and not torn? Fuel rail is on correct? Do u have plastic rails or steel?

daveyhouse
03-19-13, 01:38 PM
U did have the intake on/off to fix the starter. R u sure the injector o-rings are seated and not torn? Fuel rail is on correct? Do u have plastic rails or steel?

Yeah had each injector out and installed new o-rings on all, applied a little oil for slipment. Throttle body was off for cleaning with new gasket installed.
Fuel rail is plastic. We were going to put the stainless on from the salvage engine but the stainless has 90* at the end and fuel line from vehicle is unable to accommodate the bend.

So out this morning to get the oxy sensor off right bank. An hour or two later some cussing and wrench throwing, and looking for that potato gun, finally got it off.
While I am down there I decided to separate the Y pipe from the cat (snapped one bolt in the process), just to satisfy my curiosity about it being clogged.
Well what do know the honeycomb is full of HONEY

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/IMAG0447_zpsf4da582e.jpg

Once it is off I will try to get better pictures.

rodnok01
03-19-13, 02:13 PM
That cannot be a good thing me thinks....

stoveguyy
03-19-13, 02:19 PM
I had plastic fuel rails but got steel replacements yrs ago. I assume u need to find 96-97 donor car for proper fit.

drewsdeville
03-19-13, 03:22 PM
did you try running it with that mess of a cat disconnected to see if it solves any problems?

stoveguyy
03-19-13, 03:54 PM
Bet it would be loud with no exhaust pipe. Was walking the other day and aurora passed by. Had a nice rumble. Could see stock exhaust tips. It sounded good, not hole in muffler bad.

vincentm
03-19-13, 05:00 PM
Dealer will install a stainless steel fuel rail per recall and for free if i remember correctly

RippyPartsDept
03-19-13, 05:13 PM
yes... saftey recall campaign #04014C

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and the parts are in stock at GM warehouses so there should be no problem getting the parts ... might be worth calling your nearest Caddy dealer (recalls have to be done by the branded dealership)

stoveguyy
03-19-13, 05:15 PM
Seems to me there are some plastic runner fuel lines that have ok material? Depends on whether plastic does or does not have lettering? I think the 95-96 cars were under the recall but the 97-98 cars may have been ok?

RippyPartsDept
03-19-13, 05:19 PM
Yes, it's in the campaign bulletin ... not with or without lettering but if specific lettering... let the dealer decide ... they might just replace it anyway since it's such an old campaign they might not remember the nuance and forget to check and just order you a steel rail

daveyhouse
03-19-13, 06:57 PM
did you try running it with that mess of a cat disconnected to see if it solves any problems?

Good idea, Its alive and loud.

Vernon,

You hit the nail on the head about that oxy sensor in right bank, thank you so much. Put the new sensor in. Then reinstalled the the Y pipe. Some more cussing, and wrench's dropping on my face, but the pipe is back.

I bet I have taken at least half the parts off on this build twice.

Hit the switch and it runs, it ran rough for a while till the cylinders cleaned out all that loaded up junk and oil soaked pistons, but it just keeps running smoother and smoother. At least it can throttle up now.

The mercury is much lower on the vacuum now that the exhaust has somewhere to go.

Thank you everybody for all the help.

Here is a vid of where we are now.
http://s100.photobucket.com/user/daveyhouse/media/run%20time/VIDEO0015_zpsfec2152d.mp4.html

Walker cat will be here Thursday.

drewsdeville
03-19-13, 09:33 PM
Never expected that since the car didn't display any symptoms before disassembly...or did it???

Manic Mechanic
03-20-13, 12:37 AM
Good to hear it's going right again. If I understand correctly the catalyst was also clogged up? That would explain the MAP code and inability to rev. Sorry I just reread it and answered my own question. Automotive overload today. Took the Sunbird in on the trailer, worked on a Powerstroke transmission valve body and some other stuff earlier I can't remember. Then at quitting time I stayed for another three hours and left with the Sunbird cylinder head in hand. Now I'm about to crash into my bed.

Davey I'm glad you're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Pray it's not a train! LOL

Vernon

stoveguyy
03-20-13, 10:49 AM
U could take off cat and sell at recycling center. Cats are high $$$. So I've been told

RippyPartsDept
03-20-13, 11:04 AM
there is platinum inside a cat converter ... not much but still some

daveyhouse
03-20-13, 02:53 PM
I will have to look into that recall


Never expected that since the car didn't display any symptoms before disassembly...or did it???

Bought the car as a basket case. The PO already tried to fix it and created a catastrophe. It was already partially dissembled when we bought it so we never heard it run. If you saw the first engine, you can imagine was went into that exhaust.

----------




Davey I'm glad you're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Pray it's not a train! LOL


Vernon

You know it's just some guy in there with a flashlight teasing me. Still better than a train I guess. I did have a feeling on that cat right after I started it on page 12 post 169. Thank you again sir. We are going to replace the 2 sensors downstream as well because of the mess in the exhaust.

----------


U could take off cat and sell at recycling center. Cats are high $$$. So I've been told

Anywhere from $5.00 to $200 They make offers on them. Aftermarkets are only about half the price of oem's. The one that came is oem so we will find out. I'll report back on that one.

----------


there is platinum inside a cat converter ... not much but still some

Yep and that price is just under the price of gold. almost 1600 an ounce. The coating in them is almost microscopic but it's in there and valuable.

----------

My black cloud is back.

A couple revs on the engine and it sputtered and starting missing real bad. It leveled out some but it still has a constant dead miss on at least one cylinder.

I'm thinking piece's of carbon out of intake, and one stuck on an electrode of plug. I will pull the plugs to check.

daveyhouse
03-20-13, 10:06 PM
Okay,
Pulled all plugs and figures, the last one I pull is the one wet and not firing. (#1 cylinder). While all plugs were out, I did a compression check on that cylinder. Hit almost 200. At least I know nothing was banged up in there. Swapped the plugs from side to side 1 to 2, 3 to 4 and vise versa. Hit the ignition fired and ran smooth.

I guess multiple throttle responses flooded the cylinders because the pcm hasn't learned parameters yet, and no cat and no back oxy sensor.

Still getting P0300 = Multiple misfire. So I put wire loom on all the plug wires. Haven't run it since though.

Went and put insurance on the car today. Tomorrow hopefully the cat comes so I can install it and finish it. Can't put the bumper on until it's ready to leave the garage. (Small garage) Register with state, and hopefully they give me a couple days before needing inspection so I can get the pcm to run all test without throwing codes. We are an emission location, any codes is an automatic failure. PCM must be finished with all the test also or no pass.

drewsdeville
03-20-13, 11:56 PM
If you are worried about flooding or rich running next cold start, you can reset the maxed-out fuel trim by simply disconnecting power to the pcm...just remove the neg batt cable. Else, it'll eventually relearn it during next closed loop session.

daveyhouse
03-21-13, 12:53 AM
If you are worried about flooding or rich running next cold start, you can reset the maxed-out fuel trim by simply disconnecting power to the pcm...just remove the neg batt cable. Else, it'll eventually relearn it during next closed loop session.

So clearing the codes through the dash don't count as resetting? It's all new to me.
Thanks in advance,
I think I should rename my user ID as The Dark Cloud

drewsdeville
03-21-13, 08:05 AM
So clearing the codes through the dash don't count as resetting? It's all new to me.
Correct

daveyhouse
03-21-13, 10:48 AM
So clearing the codes through the dash don't count as resetting? It's all new to me.

Correct

Thank you Drew,
I will wait till I install the new cat and new downstream sensors before I start with a new slate. I will clear all codes and unhook battery.

stoveguyy
03-21-13, 01:31 PM
Each manifold has sensor. And there is sensor in front of cat. Which is about 18" from rear manifold sensor. Why are there 2 sensors so close to each other? I know the front and rear manifold exhaust streams mix in the y pipe and they both flow into the cat. But if the stream frm each manifold is monitored and computer says it good, why does it need to be monitored again before it enters cat?

vincentm
03-21-13, 01:40 PM
Here's what Alldata says for mine:

Description

Four Heated Oxygen Sensors (HO2S) are mounted in the exhaust system where they monitor the oxygen content in the exhaust stream. There is an oxygen sensor mounted in each exhaust manifold and one on each end of the catalytic converter. The oxygen sensor located in the front exhaust manifold is the Bank 2 Sensor 1 (Front) sensor. The oxygen sensor located in the rear exhaust manifold is the Bank 1 Sensor 1 (Rear) sensor. The oxygen sensor located in the Y-pipe ahead of the catalytic converter is the Bank 1 Sensor 2 (Pre-converter) sensor. The oxygen sensor located in the catalytic converter outlet is the Bank 1 Sensor 3 (Post-converter) sensor.

Operation

An oxygen sensor acts like a battery because it creates its own signal voltage once it reaches operating temperature. This voltage is produced when the oxygen content in the exhaust stream is different than the oxygen content in the atmosphere. A lean condition (high oxygen content in exhaust) will produce a low voltage (near 0 volts) and a rich condition (low oxygen content in exhaust) will produce a high voltage (near one volt). The PCM provides a reference signal voltage (0.45 volt) and a ground to the sensor. The PCM reference voltage is necessary because the oxygen sensors do not provide their own voltage until they reach operating temperature.

Fuel Control Heated Oxygen Sensors (Bank 1, HO2S 1) (Bank 2, HO2S 1)

The main function of the fuel control heated oxygen sensor is to provide the control module with exhaust stream information in order to allow proper fueling and maintain emissions within the mandated levels. After the sensor reaches the operating temperature, the sensor generates a voltage inversely proportional to the amount of oxygen present in the exhaust gases.

The control module uses the signal voltage from the fuel control heated oxygen sensors in a closed loop in order to adjust the fuel injector pulse width. While in a closed loop, the Control Module can adjust fuel delivery in order to maintain an air to fuel ratio which allows the best combination of emission control and driveability.

If the oxygen sensor pigtail wiring, connector or terminal are damaged, replace the entire oxygen sensor assembly. Do not attempt to repair the wiring, connector, or terminals. In order for the sensor to function properly, the sensor must have a clean air reference provided to it. This clean air reference is obtained by way of the oxygen sensor wires. Any attempt to repair the wires, connectors or terminals could result in the obstruction of the air reference. Any attempt to repair the wires, connectors or terminals could degrade oxygen sensor performance.

Catalyst Monitor Heated Oxygen Sensors (Bank 1 HO2S 2 and Bank 1 Sensor 3)

In order to control emissions of Hydrocarbons (HC), Carbon Monoxide (CO), and Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx), the system uses a three-way catalytic converter. The catalyst within the converter promotes a chemical reaction which oxidizes the HO and CO present in the exhaust gas, converting them into harmless water vapor and carbon dioxide. The catalyst also reduces NOx, converting it to nitrogen. The Control Module has the ability to monitor this process using the Bank 1 HO2S 2 and the Bank 1 HO2S 3 heated oxygen sensors. The Bank 1 HO2S 2 sensor produces an output signal which indicates the amount of oxygen present in the exhaust gas entering the three-way catalytic converter. The Bank 1 HO2S 3 sensor produces an output signal which indicates the oxygen storage capacity of the catalyst; this in turn indicates the catalyst's ability to convert exhaust gases efficiently. If the catalyst is operating efficiently, the Bank 1 HO2S 2 signal will be far more active than that produced by the Bank 1 HO2S 3 sensor.

In addition to catalyst monitoring, the Bank 1 HO2S 3 heated oxygen sensor has a limited role in controlling fuel delivery. If the Bank 1 HO2S 3 signal indicates a high or low oxygen content for an extended period of time while in a closed loop, the Control Module adjusts the fuel delivery slightly in order to compensate.

Catalyst Monitor Diagnostic Operation

The ODBII catalyst monitor diagnostic measures oxygen storage capacity. In order to do this, the heated sensors are installed before and after the Three-Way Catalyst (TWC). Voltage variations between the sensors allow the control module to determine the catalyst emission performance.

As a catalyst becomes less effective in promoting chemical reactions, the catalyst's capacity to store and release oxygen generally degrades. The OBD II catalyst monitor diagnostic is based on an correlation between conversion efficiency and oxygen storage capacity.

A good catalyst (e.g. 95% hydrocarbon conversion efficiency) shows a relatively flat output voltage on the post-catalyst Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S). A degraded catalyst (65% hydrocarbon conversion) shows a greatly increased activity in output voltage from the post catalyst HO2S.

The post-catalyst HO2S 2 is used to measure the oxygen storage and release capacity of the catalyst. A high oxygen storage capacity indicates a good catalyst; low oxygen storage capacity indicates a failing catalyst. The TWC and both the Pre and Post Converter HO2S must be at operating temperature in order to achieve correct oxygen sensor voltages like those shown in the Post-Catalyst HO2S 3 Outputs graphic.

The catalyst monitor diagnostic is sensitive to the following conditions:


Exhaust leaks
HO2S Contamination
Alternate fuels
Exhaust system leaks may cause the following results:


Prevent a degraded catalyst from failing the diagnostic
Cause a false failure for a normally functioning catalyst
Prevent the diagnostic from running Some of the contaminants that may be encountered are phosphorus, lead, silica, and sulfur. The presence of these contaminants prevents the TWC diagnostic from functioning properly.
The control module must monitor the Three-Way catalyst system (TWC) for efficiency. In order to accomplish this, the control module monitors the pre-catalyst and post-catalyst oxygen sensors. When the TWC is operating properly, the post-catalyst (2) oxygen sensor will have significantly less activity than the pre-catalyst (1) oxygen sensor. The TWC stores oxygen as needed during its normal reduction and oxidation process. The TWC releases oxygen as needed during its normal reduction and oxidation process. The control module calculates the oxygen storage capacity using the difference between the pre-catalyst and post-catalyst oxygen sensor's voltage levels.

Whenever the voltage levels of the post-catalyst (2) oxygen sensor nears the voltage levels that of the pre-catalyst (1) oxygen sensor, the catalysts efficiency is degraded.

Stepped or staged testing levels allow the control module to statistically filter test information. This prevents falsely passing or falsely failing the oxygen storage capacity test. The calculations performed by the on-board diagnostic system are very complex. For this reason, do not use post catalyst oxygen sensor activity in order to determine the oxygen storage capacity unless directed by the electronic service information

Three stages are used in order to monitor catalyst efficiency. Failure of the first stage indicates that the catalyst requires further testing in order to determine catalyst efficiency. Failure of the second stage indicates that the catalyst may be degraded. The third stage then looks at the inputs from the pre and post 02 sensors more closely before determining if the catalyst is indeed degraded. This further statistical processing is done to increase the accuracy of oxygen storage capacity type monitoring. Failing the first (stage 0) or second (stage 1) test Does Not indicate a failed catalyst. The catalyst may be marginal or the fuel sulfur content could be very high.

Aftermarket HO2S characteristics may be different from the original equipment manufacturer sensor. This may lead to a false pass or a false fail of the catalyst monitor diagnostic. Similarly, if an Aftermarket catalyst does not contain the same amount of cerium as the original part, the correlation between oxygen storage and conversion efficiency may be altered enough to set a false DTC.

drewsdeville
03-21-13, 02:01 PM
That. The downstream sensors are only to monitor cat converter efficiency. They are not involved with engine management in any way.

daveyhouse
03-21-13, 02:15 PM
That. The downstream sensors are only to monitor cat converter efficiency. They are not involved with engine management in any way.

From what I read there it does play a small part over an extended period of time.

"In addition to catalyst monitoring, the Bank 1 HO2S 3 heated oxygen sensor has a limited role in controlling fuel delivery. If the Bank 1 HO2S 3 signal indicates a high or low oxygen content for an extended period of time while in a closed loop, the Control Module adjusts the fuel delivery slightly in order to compensate."

drewsdeville
03-21-13, 02:26 PM
Ahhh Lesson for me to learn - read the whole thing! That sounds really bizarre to me though. I wonder just how 'slight' these adjustments are?

daveyhouse
03-24-13, 12:26 PM
Sorry I haven't kept you guys posted. This is going to be a long one.

Anyway Michael at http://rebuilderinabox.com/ got back to me and realized where he went wrong with the bendix, fixed his cross references, and offered to send me the correct bendix. I saw no need so I declined because I did not want to remove it AGAIN. The brush assembly would not have worked in the other starter housing either (got lucky there). This what he told me, so I went and compared the 2 brush assemblies and he was correct they are also different.

Okay onto the cat.
Took a saws-all with metal cutting blade and hacked off the old one.
Got a better shot of the inside. You can see there were only a couple of small holes that were able to allow the exhaust to escape at the bottom. Hence the no throttle response.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/IMAG0456_zps06940f94.jpg

The new cat came. You can definitely see the difference between the walker and oem. Here we go with, you get what you pay for.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/IMAG0458_zps7e606517.jpg

After a couple of adapters from a local parts store and got the new cat in it's final resting place, or at least until it leaves us down for not being oem. I used stainles hardware with anitiseize where it mounts to the Y pipe.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/IMAG0464_zps807967f2.jpg
Yeah look at that slop up there. This thing must of had a mushroom cloud following it. LOL

So now we have a new cat and 3 new oxy sensors. Since the sensor in bank 2 was operating normally, we kept that one. We all saw that bank 1 sensor was not working so that one was replaced. We also replaced the one before and after cat because of the antifreeze bath they received.

Onto story time.
We went and got insurance and tags. Put the bumper back on, started it and pulled it out of the garage where she sat since May 21, 2012
It seemed to be idling smooth but it kept throwing a code
PCM P0300 = Random multiple misfire.

We didn't notice it until we put in in gear, then you could definitely feel the missfire. I figured it just needed cleaned out still. I throttle it up to about 2000 rpm and it smoothed out. When it would idle back down same thing, throttle up same thing again.

We changed coil pack with the one from the salvage motor same result. Then I started pulling the plug wires one at time with a pair of insulated pliers. Did the easy ones first, 2, 4, 6, and 8. All four of them made it rougher so I knew they were working.

Couldn't get to 1, 3, 5, and 7, so I pulled the boots off the coils one at a time, last one was #7 and it rapped me a good one. :crybaby: So now we know which cylinder it is. Swapped the plug with #8 still same result.

Pulled the plug again inserted into boot grounded the plug and checked for spark. Plenty of spark. So I thread my compression tester in there and UH OH only got 100psi running. Now I am worried thinking something is damaged in there. IDK, maybe the rings aren't seating, so back to more revs on the motor. I ran her at 2500 rpm for at least 5 minutes with a couple of gooses in between. Didn't work.

I figured only one "easy" fix left. So I grabbed the stainless fuel rail from the salvage motor and stole the injector from the same cylinder location, and swapped it. Eureka no more miss no more code. Purring like a kitten, running smooth and strong.

So I guess that injector was putting too much fuel in and wiping all the oil off the cylinder walls. The injector did not leak when the engine was off. Ask me how I know when I forgot to depressurize the fuel line and yank an injector over a hot engine. I was standing there with my finger over the hole. Luckily I had my phone and I text-ed the better half to send one of the kids out to get me a rag. My finger was getting sore waiting there, when I realized I texted my son instead who is at work :banghead:
I then texted the right number and help came in 30 seconds. Got a rag and caught the rest of the gas.
It was scary because you could hear and see the gas boiling off the hot engine. Phew

Monday we plan to go for inspection. I am going to call this rebuild a success. My son is extremely happy with it. Even though he has more money in the car than the car is worth. He said it was worth it.

Sorry for all the paragraphs but I find it easier to read than long paragraphs. Is that ADD that I have :D

I want to thank everybody that helped me with this rebuild, and all the replies I received they were ALL very helpful.:cheers: I am so glad I joined this forum for the wealth of knowledge that is here. Easy to navigate, excellent results on searches etc. etc. :2thumbs: Mmmmmm dohhnuts.

Oh and Chris at RIPPY CADILLAC for the parts. :D

rodnok01
03-24-13, 12:36 PM
You def put some OT in on his car, I'm a sucker for punishment too so I get it. I've bought some real creme puffs. You should start a shop & work on these now, think you've ran across every possible roadblock.
Got any pics?
... the cloud is now lifting ...

daveyhouse
03-24-13, 12:51 PM
You def put some OT in on his car, I'm a sucker for punishment too so I get it. I've bought some real creme puffs. You should start a shop & work on these now, think you've ran across every possible roadblock.
Got any pics?
... the cloud is now lifting ...

I would be in the poor house if I did this for a living. I did learn a lot though.

Well he is at work right now and will be until late tonight. So no pics today. Tomorrow they are calling for snow. I will definitely get pics and a video of the car running, Before the end of the week for you guys.

Oh yes my cloud LOL. See every black cloud does have a silver lining. Of course I think mine is lead, maybe even pewter.

stoveguyy
03-24-13, 01:22 PM
Have u driven it enough to verify trans is ok? OD works, no codes?

vincentm
03-24-13, 01:35 PM
Have u driven it enough to verify trans is ok? OD works, no codes?

I think he put in new TCC solenoids, cant remember, congrats davey. Im sure you covered almost every single thing that could be possibly be replaced mechanical wise. Glad to be witness to this story. And definately glad to see another Northstar on the road. Now for some WOT runs!

daveyhouse
03-24-13, 01:48 PM
Yep drives great I reset the avg mileage and was getting 16 in city. Cruise control works.
So far no more gremlins

Oh and yesterday before he went to work I brought the car out front and got the new heater hoses from Chris @ RIPPY CADILLAC :D and put them onto the heater core and flushed it with lots of water in both directions, a lot of rusty water came out. I went in each direction at least 6 times.

Took it out back blew it out with compressed air. I then felt satisfied with tapping the heater core into the system. He now has heat.
As of right now we only have the ac dryer to re-install. I currently have the lines taped off to keep debris out.

----------


I think he put in new TCC solenoids, cant remember, congrats davey. Im surenyou covered almost everysingle that could be possibly be replaced mechanical wise. Glad to be witness to this story. And definately glad to see another Northstar on the road. Now for some WOT runs!

Haven't taken it out the highway yet. She is still stretching her legs. I must say, I am impressed with the power that it does have.

No I bought the tcc solenoid but did not install it. The trans was still mounted in the vehicle, and I couldn't see a way to properly seal that pan back up since you are unable to remove it while it is in the vehicle. But at least we have it when it does go hopefully it don't, but Chris mentioned that it wasn't a problem on the 98's.

drewsdeville
03-24-13, 02:33 PM
But at least we have it when it does go hopefully it don't, but Chris mentioned that it wasn't a problem on the 98's. That's surprising...seems that the tcc was a weak point on all vcc equipped GM transmissions, no matter what the year.

RippyPartsDept
03-24-13, 02:45 PM
I can't remember us ever doing a P0741 TCC job on a pre-2000 northstar ... in the last decade no less

that doesn't mean we've never done one... but if i can't remember it then it's not very common

daveyhouse
03-24-13, 08:48 PM
Okay they sent him home early so we got some pics.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/IMAG0471_zpsa4d9858a.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/IMAG0467_zps1ed81e3e.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/IMAG0468_zpsdd682ca0.jpg



Running video in the link below. Now this phone picked up noises that I cannot hear. Definitely sounds better in person.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/th_startup_zps2823a842.jpg (http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/startup_zps2823a842.mp4)

And a WOT for Vince
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/th_WOT2_zpse24b60fe.jpg (http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/run%20time/WOT2_zpse24b60fe.mp4)

As of right now we have 2 codes

P0463 = Symptoms of a P0463 DTC may include: Mil (Malfunction indicator lamp) illumination Fuel level gauge may fluctuate abnormally, or read empty, or full Fuel light may illuminate and sound alarm

Potential causes of a P0463 code include: The signal circuit to the fuel sender is open or shorted to B+ (Battery voltage) The ground circuit is open, or ground path may have high resistance due to rust or missing ground strap on fuel tank Damage to the fuel tank could cause problem in fuel level circuit There's an open in the fuel lever sensor's resistor to ground Possibly faulty instrument cluster Less likely is the possibility that the PCM, BCM, or Fuel pump computer module has failed

This came about after he filled the tank with premium from shell. He is going to stay with top tier Submariner, thanks for the tip.

The other code is
B1348 Very Low A/C Refrigerant Pressure.
Not a problem YET, because we do not know the condition of the ac system. It was empty when we got it. We have all new o-rings for it along with a new dryer and screen. Just need a vacuum pump to pull it down to get all moisture out before we charge it.

CadillacLuke24
03-25-13, 01:28 AM
SWEET!! GREAT FOR YOU! Glad you got another Northstar back on the road. It's running great! :thumbsup:

vincentm
03-25-13, 02:23 AM
For the B1348, is the clutch at least engaging? Once recharged (dont forget the orifice tube ) clear the code that will re-enage the clutch.

daveyhouse
03-25-13, 11:02 AM
Thanks Luke


For the B1348, is the clutch at least engaging? Once recharged (dont forget the orifice tube ) clear the code that will re-enage the clutch.

The system is currently empty. I don't think I want the clutch engaging yet. Once we get a vacuum pump we will pull it down and get the moisture out, then charge it up.

stoveguyy
03-25-13, 01:01 PM
I could not see pics of cat very well. What exactly does it look like? Is it full of crud? Can u pic it out or poke at it? Does it flake off? Or is it a fused mass?

KidCavanna
03-25-13, 01:36 PM
There are so many ups and down in this thread I feel like I'm at the movies!! Davey you got my vote for best actor!! Dare there be a sequel??

vincentm
03-25-13, 01:37 PM
Love that vid of the WOT, thanks for that Davey lol

RippyPartsDept
03-25-13, 01:47 PM
let me just profess my love for this thread one more time (almost said one last time, but the way this thread has been going anything could happen)

:cloud9::worship::2thumbs::dance::cheers::rose::he art::heart::heart::heart::rockon::rockon::sunnynan a::sunnynana:
:nanaparty:

daveyhouse
03-25-13, 07:04 PM
I could not see pics of cat very well. What exactly does it look like? Is it full of crud? Can u pic it out or poke at it? Does it flake off? Or is it a fused mass?
We are going to call it a fused mass. I tried tapping the cat on concrete to knock some of it out, and nothing came out. I didn’t want to go digging around in there because taking it to a scrap dealer, just to have them say I tampered with it and not pay us as much.

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There are so many ups and down in this thread I feel like I'm at the movies!! Davey you got my vote for best actor!! Dare there be a sequel??
Thanks Kid,
So you want a sequel?
My next endeavor is attempting to rebuild an automatic transmission out of a 98 Mercury Mountaineer AWD. Picked it up for $300.
I guess you will have to join another forum, it being a Ford product and all. I am still trying to find a popular forum to do it where I can get plenty of help like I got here. I'll post the forum when I choose one.
I’ll be watching for your HG repair on here.


----------


Love that vid of the WOT, thanks for that Davey lol
Anything for you Vince, a friend of Tim Carroll’s is a friend of mine. :D

----------


let me just profess my love for this thread one more time (almost said one last time, but the way this thread has been going anything could happen)

Chris, I think I should dedicate this thread to you since you love it the most. Thank you again for all the parts and quick shipping.
Chris @ RIPPY CADILLAC rules :D

stoveguyy
03-26-13, 11:03 AM
What does computer do if u unplug rear cat o2 sensor? #4? I believe it is only to verify cat performance and does not affect motor operation in any way?

For starters, it will set O2 sensor (B1S3) and cat efficiency codes, set the SES light, and the car fails emissions ..............

KidCavanna
03-27-13, 03:26 AM
Let me know how you make out on that ford forum. I got a 351 Windsor to rebuild out of my 85 F150. I can't imagine it being as complicated as the caddy.

Submariner409
03-27-13, 11:19 AM
The 351W is a great engine and can be made to RUN pretty cheaply - there are skrillions of goodies and parts for that engine.

KidCavanna
03-27-13, 08:50 PM
It's a great truck. Also saved from the crusher and a rolling Frankenstein of parts.

daveyhouse
03-29-13, 10:06 PM
Update

Only part of the obd2 system that was not completed was the evaporative system monitor, but here in Pa were allowed to have 2 uncompleted for a 98 model. So we went for inspection and passed. Now he is good for a year.

We changed the oil after a half tank of gas.

Sub, what is the best way to open the oil filter for inspection? That way we can have more pics to share and scare everybody :D

Oh, and the forum I chose for the tranny rebuild on the Mecury is http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/. Looks like a lot of knowledge there. Now that I am back to work it will probably take me till Xmas to complete. LOL

vincentm
03-30-13, 01:37 AM
Good to hear davey, now that this project is complete, dont be a stranger here.

daveyhouse
03-31-13, 08:04 PM
Good to hear davey, now that this project is complete, dont be a stranger here.

I'll try not to Vince

Okay, so I took the sawsall that I hacked the cat off with and opened up the oil filter. It was actually about a whole tank of gas before the first oil change. Anyway on with pics

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/oil%20filter/IMAG0481_zps73101a20.jpg

I don't know how much I contaminated the scene with the saw and playing around all the metal shavings, because I was trying to keep my mess localized.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/oil%20filter/IMAG0483_zpsde0dab50.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/oil%20filter/IMAG0485_zps06f42011.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/oil%20filter/IMAG0486_zps758b40e5.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/daveyhouse/oil%20filter/IMAG0487_zpscfb86f70.jpg

CadillacLuke24
03-31-13, 11:50 PM
I'm no expert, but I'd say it looks good :thumbsup:

daveyhouse
04-01-13, 12:11 AM
I'm no expert, but I'd say it looks good :thumbsup:

Admit it Luke, you just like picachures. LOL

Submariner409
04-01-13, 12:10 PM
Sub, what is the best way to open the oil filter for inspection? That way we can have more pics to share and scare everybody

The BEST way is to chuck the tapping plate end in a lathe and roll the case apart just at the plate. BUT, you can clamp the tapping plate end in a vise and use a hacksaw 1/5 at a time. Of course, discount the paint and metal chips on that end of the media.

At the first change few bright flecks and sealant bits are normal, metallic sand and chunks are not. After that, essentially nothing should show in the pleats.

When you break apart the media into 10-pleat sections, squeeze each set of pleats (like squeezing a closed accordion) in the vise to dry it out - that makes analysis much easier and oils the vise and floor in the process. Remember: Oil flows through the media from the can to the center tube; particles will be trapped on the can side of the media.

Your pictures - the Sawzall contaminated everything. That media tells you nothing.

http://www.minimopar.net//oilfilters/index.html

rodnok01
04-01-13, 09:02 PM
I drill a hole big enough to fit my snips and cut apart that way, can be difficult but very few shavings inside then.

big greg
05-31-13, 10:00 AM
I stayed up way to late reading this. Lol awesome thread and great documentation. Hows she running to date?

daveyhouse
06-02-13, 06:23 PM
it is running great thanks for askingit has no problem spinning tires taking off. he did have one problem the other day it would not start for him I think it was just a chip in the key not making contact or something because it would not even try to crank. the only issue bother him right now is the AC vents it keeps blowing AC to defrost.

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while I am on the subject does anybody know if the 98 Deville as a cabin filter on the hvac

maeng9981
06-02-13, 11:04 PM
No. No cabin air filter for a 98. 2000+ ones have one.

daveyhouse
06-04-13, 04:03 AM
Thank you for the answer.

big greg
06-04-13, 11:26 AM
Thanks for the awesome thread

daveyhouse
06-07-13, 08:16 AM
Well he finally left me take it to work yesterday, and i got 26.5 avg mpg .He is running Shell premium. Average speed was 75 mph when i could. Don't tell him but at one time i was up to 105 mph.:D:lildevil: .

There is a pulsing at low speed that i thought at first was transmission trying to decide to shift or not, but it does it in all gears. So when I get a chance i will swap out the TPS with the spare one to see if that is the culprit.