: BEHE Tuning in Maryland Strikes Again! (Long Post)



DMM
01-09-13, 12:19 PM
John B got me for $500 before I knew what to look for, or what the data meant. Long story short, stock MAF and VE tables, multiple DTC's disabled, and 22* advance on a hot air Maggie.

I got this post on another forum and though I'd share to save someone else the same fate.....


Edit: I was asked by the OP to take down his PM for the time being.

HAMSTAR
01-09-13, 12:34 PM
This makes me so angry. There are too many of these scam artists out in the performance world. Seems all it takes is come charisma and a fancy shop and you get business. On the other hand, there are honest guys out there who can't market for shit who get overlooked. Jeff Lowry is one of the good ones in Maryland. No nonsense, honest and good with both NA and boost.

RyRidesMotoX
01-09-13, 01:08 PM
Wow that is horrible. I would throw those pistons through his shop window. 22* of advance maybe if you are on straight ethanol with method/h20 injection or something. And almost $1k, hell a guy could buy hptuners for $400 and learn from the hpt forum better than the guy that tuned it for him. I have always used the same tuner for my cars he is legit and emails me tunes for hptuners. Once you find someone good and honest its a good idea to stick with them. The local guy that had the car with the blower set up for 8psi on the blower may have had it running a little slower but you gotta start somewhere.

wait4me
01-09-13, 02:08 PM
22 deg of timing is less than stock on the lsa supercharged ctsv..

Im sure there is probably more to the story. There always is....

Also, who is to say that the file posted is exactly really what was in the car. Deleting dtc codes will not hurt anything. ALOT of tuners do this. As for stock Ve tables, and maf tables, there are more than one way to setup for fueling. Depending on how a tuner tunes, he could do a lot of different routes to achieve goals. Some people use just Maf and ignore Ve, some use only Ve and ignore maf, some people tune different stuff in the background, As long as it hits the desired air / fuel ratio at wide open, and drives good at non full throttle, then according to some tuners, they have done their job.

Every tuner is different, every car is different, every engine combo is different. Just like the mod list...

Not my business, but seems kind of crappy to post this without you being the one involved.. There are always 2 real sides of a story..

----------

One more thing to add is, Obviously this car was pulled on the dyno to show what it was making, and was logged for data, if it was wrong or something was out of place, it would have been seen right away on the dyno right? So would it be the dyno operators fault as well if something was not right????

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One more thing to add again, lol, the person was using STOCK pistons at 630RWHP???, with UNKNOWN mileage on them and how does he know how those pistons where being used in the previous motor that he got them from? They die again on the same side, with the same exact issue? Why wouldn't the other side have had issues? Why the heck would you put in stock pistons that usually fail at 100hp less?

alradco
01-09-13, 03:18 PM
DMM, your motor didn't get hurt?

RyRidesMotoX
01-09-13, 04:10 PM
22 deg of timing is less than stock on the lsa supercharged ctsv.

But its on a GTO apparently... Do you have the file you can post up on here possibly? One pulled by HP tuners? I haven't seen one around and I'm on mobile right now so if you already posted one I'll check when I get home. 22* of timing seems a bit much for a forced induction motor unless you are running something better than pump gas. Especially one with a supercharger on to that holds in god awful amounts of heat under high continuous loads. Plus turbos flow a lot of air when they get in boost. A supercharger isn't as efficient as a turbo. I may be wrong about the LS timing with a turbo, but I have had a few turbo'd cars and none of them got up to that much timing advance unless it was on ethanol.

wait4me
01-09-13, 04:14 PM
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46.500000 46.500000 46.500000 46.500000 46.500000 44.000000 41.500000 40.500000 40.000000 38.500000 38.000000 37.500000 37.000000 37.000000 37.000000 35.500000 30.000000 31.000000 30.500000 28.500000 28.500000 27.500000 25.500000 24.500000 24.500000 24.000000 23.000000 23.000000 21.000000 20.500000 20.000000 19.500000 19.000000
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51.000000 51.000000 51.000000 51.000000 51.000000 50.000000 49.000000 47.500000 46.500000 45.000000 44.000000 43.500000 42.000000 44.500000 40.000000 35.000000 32.000000 33.500000 32.000000 29.000000 27.500000 26.500000 25.500000 25.000000 24.500000 22.000000 23.500000 22.500000 20.500000 20.000000 20.000000 19.500000 18.500000
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52.000000 52.000000 52.000000 52.000000 52.000000 50.500000 49.500000 48.000000 47.000000 45.500000 44.500000 44.000000 42.500000 45.000000 40.500000 35.500000 32.500000 34.000000 32.500000 29.500000 28.000000 27.000000 26.000000 25.500000 25.000000 22.500000 24.000000 23.000000 21.000000 20.500000 20.000000 19.500000 18.500000
52.000000 52.000000 52.000000 52.000000 52.000000 50.500000 49.500000 48.000000 47.000000 45.500000 44.500000 44.000000 42.500000 45.000000 40.500000 35.500000 32.500000 34.000000 32.500000 29.500000 28.000000 27.000000 26.000000 25.500000 25.000000 22.500000 24.000000 23.000000 21.000000 20.500000 20.000000 19.500000 18.500000

This is not counting the adders, like pe or iat, or coolant, ect...

thebigjimsho
01-09-13, 06:15 PM
I'm over 30,000 miles with track days, auto crosses and a few dozen passes down the drag strip on a Behe tune. I'm still happy...

AAIIIC
01-10-13, 09:18 AM
So is that entire story not DMM's experience? I'm confused. How about some [quote ] [/ quote] tags around the story from someone else?

The only two folks that I've met that BEHE tuned (Big Jim and a GTO guy that I used to auto-x with up in the DC area) are both happy with what BEHE has done for them.

DMM
01-11-13, 08:07 PM
Jessie...I guess you have not heard of John's handy work, this is quite typical of his work...stock MAF and VE tables, raping the PE, changing only the injector flow rate (and nothing else at all), and then driving it for two whole days to build the fuel trims to get some type of drivability out of it...only after achieving ridiculous dyno numbers that is. He is very well known by every tuner in this area, his timing table and injector data tables are his trademark that give him away.


To further answer everyone's questions, yes...the SOB got me as well...for $500. He said the car would be ready and I arrived to have to wait for three hours since Ryan was still driving it out on the road. I didn't drive the car since I was in Iraq at the time, when I returned I was driving it and it felt like a broken motor mount under normal around town driving (it turned out to be the PE kicking in @ 18% throttle @2k RPM's). I have posted this link several times on this forum, so I'll go ahead and throw my original post up...



This is a dyno tune from a reputable shop/tuner here in Maryland, one that specializes in tuning Magnuson equipped LS motors ironically enough. This is on a 2004 CTS-V with an LS6, Maggie, LT headers, and cat back exhaust. I started looking at the tune b/c at lower speeds on tip in it felt like a motor mount was broken even with solid mounts already installed.

Long story short, MAF and VE tables are stock (yes, completely stock) PE tables have been raped, O2 sensor rich/lean vs. airflow has been changed, injector flow rate changed but nothing else. Oh, and EVERY O2 sensor DTC for rich, lean, X-counts, slow response, etc have been disabled along with opening up the DTC parameters for the TPS calculated airflow and MAF airflow error. The latter I think is a real slap in the face, you know the MAF and VE tables are wrong so you open up the DTC parameters so a code doesn't set. Total garbage.

All courtesy of John B. of Behe Performance.


And here is the link to the original post (Nov 2011) that has the BEHE $500 tune: http://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/1486102-another-500-dyno-tune.html

DMM
01-11-13, 10:37 PM
I'm over 30,000 miles with track days, auto crosses and a few dozen passes down the drag strip on a Behe tune. I'm still happy...

Have you ever had your tune looked at? I have the actual tune from John posted and know exactly what's in it, and what isn't. It's all there, just as it has been for over a year now...and has been independently critiqued by several accredited tuners all who came arrived at the same conclusion...all of the O2 DTC's should never be set to "No Error Reported" and it's about the farthest thing from professional work.

Don't get me wrong BigJim...I very much respect both your opinion and your status here on the forum's, however I have the evidence of his actual work and it speaks for itself.


So is that entire story not DMM's experience? I'm confused. How about some [quote ] [/ quote] tags around the story from someone else?

The only two folks that I've met that BEHE tuned (Big Jim and a GTO guy that I used to auto-x with up in the DC area) are both happy with what BEHE has done for them.

Yes...I did quote another person anonymously. I was taken for over $500 ($582 actually, since BEHE charged me to REMOVE the fully functional Magnavolt as they said it wasn't necessary). While the actual dollar amount is quite trivial to me (it's about 10% of my avg monthly AMEX bill), I would much rather save someone else from the same fate who is not in the same financial situation.

Here's the thing...a tune is a tune...the work is already done and it won't ever be refunded. Just as with a private contractor that you hire to remodel your home, if they do crap work you'll never expect to see the money back. What's done is done. In all honesty, if the so called "professional" in question knew what they were doing was wrong, it would have never been done that way in the first place...so good luck getting them to identify/agree that they screwed up, much less giving you a refund.

So, much as with the crappy home improvement contractor, you don't put your efforts into getting your money back from them...you pay again to have a legitimate professional fix it correctly and you try to spread the word in an attempt to save anyone else that may fall for their endless self promotion (which is what I am trying to do BTW).

Jessie (Wait4Me)...the tune that I paid for is posted in the previous link. Go ahead and look at the tune yourself. If you truly believe this work is commensurate for a "professional", with three days and in excess of $500 of work using EFI Live, I will completely remove this entire post and everything associated with it.


Edit: Here's the timing map's...stock 2004 CTS-V, my BEHE 8 lb. Maggie Tune, and a 2009 CTS-V map. Keep in mind the 2009 has 9:1 SCR vs the LS6 10.5:1 SCR and can take additional timing.

Stock:

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/Stock_CTSV_Timing_zpse68910d3.jpg

BEHE 8lb Maggie Tune:

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/BEHE_Maggie_Timing_zps769bf8de.jpg

2009 CTS-V:

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/2009_CTSV_Timing_zps460bbc45.jpg

wait4me
01-12-13, 01:35 AM
You are correct, the timing is to much based on that table.
I did look at the tune and it was odd. Sorry for defending someone...


The reason for the V2 to have so much timing is from the swirl port in the intake runner.

DMM
01-12-13, 01:51 AM
You are correct, the timing is to much based on that table.
I did look at the tune and it was odd. Sorry for defending someone...


The reason for the V2 to have so much timing is from the swirl port in the intake runner.

Thank you for your candid response! I don't mean to put you in this position, but you are well respected here and i'm just the guy with bad news that nobody wants to hear from. Thanks again.

RyRidesMotoX
01-13-13, 05:56 PM
Thank you for your candid response! I don't mean to put you in this position, but you are well respected here and i'm just the guy with bad news that nobody wants to hear from. Thanks again.

X2... Everything I heard about W4me has been good. I understand him wanting to defend a fellow tuner seeing as he has probably been scrutinized in the same way. If I wasn't capable of my own tuning W4Me would have my business

thebigjimsho
01-15-13, 12:28 PM
DMM, I'm not trying to fight against you. No, I have not had my tune looked at. Maybe I'll swing it down to Slowhawk one of these days. But I would think if something was way off, I'd have had major issues by now with the paces I've put my V through.

So I just give my experience as a caveat...

MIKEC
01-16-13, 10:44 AM
Im glad i read this i just gave them a call a few weeks ago to make arrangement to have them install a blower cam on my maggied ls6 along with timing set and oil pump. For some reason they say that changing the oil pump was a pain in the ass and not recommended Unless absolutely needed.

NC-V
01-18-13, 10:12 PM
Im glad i read this i just gave them a call a few weeks ago to make arrangement to have them install a blower cam on my maggied ls6 along with timing set and oil pump. For some reason they say that changing the oil pump was a pain in the ass and not recommended Unless absolutely needed.

Well that's funny because they can't change the timing set out without removing the pump anyways, and at that point it is no more work to change out the oil pump. I always recommend changing the oil pump out when doing a cam swap, it is relatively cheap insurance against a part that has had known failures and it costs no more labor to replace when doing a timing set. If you have any kind of miles on your Maggied V I would definitely put a pump and timing set on and steer clear of any shop that doesn't recommend it because it is a "pain in the ass"... that's just my professional opinion.

sssnake
01-19-13, 09:01 AM
The reason for the V2 to have so much timing is from the swirl port in the intake runner.

This may be s little off topic but could you explain? I have lsa heads going on my ls2 tvs 2300 build. I started to PM you but thought others would be interested.