: V1 E-Force Thread



DMM
12-29-12, 12:42 AM
All right, it's been a while in the making but I have finally gotten everything installed. For reference, my vehicle is a 2004 CTS-V, with a factory replacement LS6 (motor was replaced before I purchased under warranty). The only modifications prior top installing the E-Force are .650" valve springs, LS7 lifters, and hardened push rod's.

First off, I want to thank Mark for all of his assistance here behind the scenes...his suggestions made things MUCH easier! Thanks man!

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1579051-cts-v-e-force-thread-open-all-e-force-builds-questions.html

This is the thread where I procured the majority of the items for the installation:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1586518-so-i-got-delivery-today-2.html

The reservoir/expansion tank did not work as I had planned, and am waiting on another one to complete the build.

The first thing I had to do was mount the front mounted HEX and pump, the pump being much larger than I had anticipated...so much that I had to get creative with the placement.

With the bumper cover and crash bar removed, I had to remove the inside tabs and captured nuts:

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0640_zps9e45a782.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0642_zps6927f97b.jpg


I cut a piece of steel "L" channel to span the lower retaining bolts, with two holes drilled to hang the HEX from:


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0647_zpscd6ffa09.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0649_zps4e68e3df.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0679_zps9bb4a548.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0678_zps3b8a1144.jpg


The P/S cooler bracket was trimmed and relocated to the top stud. The hoses reach without being extended, they just have to be loosened and readjusted.

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0676_zps37b12ae4.jpg


This HEX seems as if it made to the exact dimensions of our lower grille opening, it fits as if it was designed for this exact purpose!

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0658_zps79fcf826.jpg


The HEX pump was pretty big, and required a bit of thinking to find a place for it. I found that there was just barely enough room for it immediately behind the bumper cover, immediately to the inside of the fog lamp. I cut some sheet metal (sourced from a rolling filing cabinet lid, haha) and removed the PCM box. I put the trimmed metal over the studs, replaced the PCM box and tightened it down...which formed the bracket that I needed to the PCM box!


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0664_zpsd905952e.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0662_zps15cdcd02.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0683_zpsd8cb321e.jpg

DMM
12-29-12, 12:43 AM
I had to fab some lower supports for the HEX...I used "X" braces from a set of old utility shelves that never made it to the scrap man. You can see the P/S cooler and horns in the second pic...the horn bracket had to be flattened straight and was attached to the top HEX retaining bolt.


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0690_zpse12afaf4.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0695_zpsd1483940.jpg


HEX and pump were plumbed together using steel fittings...street 45* fittings and a closed nipple. I had to separate the motor from the pump housing, assemble the HEX and pump rotor housing using the steel fittings, and then reinstall the motor after the HEX was bolted to the car. PITA...but it worked!


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0686_zps69a6c93f.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0750_zps3a846e79.jpg


How'd it fit? Like a condom...but it's in there! Hahaha!


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0755_zpsa5b91e49.jpg


There were a few things that I wanted to change, and a few things that I had to change while I was installing the E-Force. I had an old coolant crossover vent from another LS motor (can't remember which one) and I removed the rear plugs and installed this vent. There are quite a few who advocate installing this second steam vent as they feel that it contributes to the #7 and #8 pistons/cylinder problems. It makes sense, if steam cannot get vented from the rear of the motor, it WILL cause hot spots and further damage.

Also, since I have and LS6, I broke the oil sender as there is not enough of a relief in the E-Force runner. I got a brass 3/8" street 90* from Home Depot...and it didn't fit the block. The brass fitting was 3/8" NPT, and the block is standard thread. I got a 5/8" tap and die and cut new threads on the brass 90* to fit the block. The oil sender fit fine, as it seals using the gasket.

The rear crossover and oil sender:

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0733_zpsc70cfca6.jpg

Plumbed into the surge tank line:

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0735_zpsd89009a2.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0736_zps408d6187.jpg


Oil sender:


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0729_zps1205e15f.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0731_zps6623386c.jpg


For the fuel fittings, I followed Mark's lead and used his specified parts. Only difference, I removed the center hold down bolt for the wiper module, found a longer bolt, and reinstalled the longer bolt into the sleeve. I then made a bracket (out of the same "X" bracing as the lower HEX brackets) and mounted the "Y" block since this was where the factory nylon fuel feed line naturally wound up.


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0701_zps4d20ef31.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0702_zpsb6efa6f5.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0705_zpsf471f25d.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0703_zps77fffee5.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0706_zps8d63da2b.jpg

DMM
12-29-12, 12:45 AM
I decided not to use the supplied Ford/Bosch TMAP unit. I am running a HP Tuners 2 BAR OS so I got the Cobalt 2 BAR MAP sensor. It doesn't have to be scaled (unlike the TMAP), and cost me less than the Ford TMAP connector. I made a hold down from the same "X" bracing (can you tell how glad I am that I never throw ANYTHING away? hahah) to keep the GM 2 BAR MAP sensor in place.


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0717_zps257a625d.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0716_zps875dcf7d.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0720_zps41c1b374.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0719_zps4607f065.jpg


Since I did not use the TMAP, I needed another IAT sensor. I used the 1/8" boost gauge tap for this. This places the IAT immediately after the intercooler, directly in the air stream unlike the Edelbrock TMAP design. I had a few Omega thermistors on hand from when I installed one in my old Maggie...so I got a short length of 3/16" steel brake line and trimmed it down. I soldered the thermistor to 20 gauge wire, heat wrapped it, and ran it through the 3/16" brake line. On the external side of the home made IAT, I epoxied the tube closed and soldered a 2 wire connector (sourced from and old ABS circuit). Note that when you solder the thermistor, you have to keep it from getting overheated....hence the sponge. LOL!


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0737_zpsccebe699.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0767_zps0a746714.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0773_zps0b4d5b89.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0775_zps43f1766e.jpg


After the E-Force was installed, I changed the intercooler fittings so that the 90* fittings were both on the passenger side, and both straight fittings were on the drivers side. I used 5/8" aluminum fuel line and a ratchet bender to get the 90* radius around the E-Force. I used the "FrozenBoost.com" remote inline filler in the (top) return line...which puts it at the highest point in order to bleed the air from the system. The expansion tank I had in mind did not work out, so I have another one on order.

I wrapped all of the aluminum tubing in 3/8"x5/8" Armaflex insulation.

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0739_zps4bc7c4a7.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0751_zpsad48db21.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0749_zps18cd4db8.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0762_zps3f42ef04.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0761_zps35b3bd78.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0754_zps117fe546.jpg

DMM
12-29-12, 12:46 AM
Continuing with the build...one thing I forgot to take pics of is the EVAP line. Since the EVAP connection is on the bottom of the inlet snout, I needed a 90* fitting. Turns out a '99+ Silverado EVAP line was the perfect fit...had a quick connect fitting and the nylon hose was perfectly molded to follow the exact angles of the E-Force manifold. I'll try to get a better pic of this line, maybe take the one off of my truck for documentation. The EVAP line is in Red, the PCV breather line is the Green arrow:


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0831_zps2e54ce37.jpg


The tensioner bracket requires that you remove the passenger side harness retainer (as the bolt hole must be used for the bracket). I straightened the harness and ran it under the bracket. Once installed, there is a two wire connector that needs to be re-routed under the other harness' (Red circle) as it touched the tensioner.


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0713_zps3453e2e7.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0714_zps295accc2.jpg


For the PCV system, I went cheap...shocker, huh? LOL! Anyhow, I used the best that Harbor Freight had to offer instead of the $120+ catch can. I epoxied the bottom vent closed so it wouldn't leak, and then temporarily mounted it to the drivers shock tower. I will make a bracket for it after I get the new expansion tank for the HEX system. Say what you will...the damn thing works! After about 200 miles I have a little oil puddled in the trap.


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0744_zps20a7dd0b.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0833_zps073f89bf.jpg


For the PCV breather, I drilled a hole in the 4" aluminum intake tubing and installed a power brake booster check valve and grommet. From the check valve, hose connects to the breather vent on the passenger head. I did not want crankcase vapors being sucked through the intake, so this was a low buck method for maintaining correct flow through the system.


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0822_zps9c9d856f.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0832_zps300eb10b.jpg


The underside of the hood had to be modified before it would close. I used putty to mark the area's that required clearance, and trimmed as necessary. Note the I have since installed the RevShift trans insert which raised the rear of the trans substantially (since the mount was collapsed)...so I may have trimmed more than required.


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0836_zps2a132636.jpg


For power to the HEX pump, I wired the ground straight to the core support flange behind the driver headlamp since there was a threaded hole there. I ran the power line to the under hood fuse center and used the mini fuse tap (in a vacant switched fuse) with a 3 Amp fuse as control voltage to the relay. The 20 Amp fuse holder is secured to the stud for B+ to the pump side of the relay.


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0819_zpsaa1501cc.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0820_zps3ed47c6f.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0821_zps7cf9439e.jpg

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0835_zps5e47c430.jpg


Forgot the belt...I have the 3.25" pulley but need to go bigger to get the boost down.


http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o642/DMM416/IMG_0734_zps6feb468b.jpg


In addition to all of this, I installed a DW 300 fuel pump in the tank. I will be updating this thread as the new parts come in!

rand49er
12-29-12, 12:36 PM
Vids? Dyno results?

:bouncy:

DMM
12-29-12, 01:48 PM
Vids? Dyno results?

:bouncy:

My daughter has my GoPro at the moment...I'll get it back this weekend and throw some vids up. This thing is LOUD! Comparatively loud under normal driving to the Maggie at WOT...and the TVS was supposedly quieter...nope!

I need to get a bigger pulley before I mess with it too much...I have 6 lbs of boost @1600 RPM and 10 lbs @ 2800 RPM with the 3.25" pulley installed (which is supposed to be good for only 10 PSI). I haven't gone over 3k RPM as of yet, and don't think I will until I have the larger pulley installed.

I also have an issue with surging (possibly intermittent miss) in the low RPM/high load driving conditions. I have messed with the timing to no end but still cannot get it right. Beginning to think I may have a weak coil or questionable plug wire. Will have to get that diagnosed before I go any further.

Oh, one last thing...IAT's are ridiculously low. I know it's winter, but with the Maggie under normal driving I would see 100* IAT's even with sub 40* ambient temps (b/c the boost actuator recycles the charged/heated air after the rotors back into the inlet). I am seeing average of 20* over ambient temps! I thought this was wrong, so I opened the hood and felt the top lid and it was ice cold!

RyRidesMotoX
12-29-12, 05:12 PM
God this build sounds like it would be awesome.

Surging is a bitch. I had it on my old car when sensors would get dirty, or if the bypass valve wasn't working right, or the waste gate... My last car was turbod though. You can hunt down some of that stuff if you have a tuning program to help you see maf, map, or wideband O2 sensor readings.

Edit reread that you are using a cobalt 2 bar map and HP tuners. Sweet, I would recommend cleaning the map sensor since that was a huge reason why my car would act up ever. Those sensors are real finicky and like a woman, once you piss it off, you gotta clean er up and make nice. I had to spray off my MAF and MAP sensors after it rained every time or I would get misfires at wot and surging down low. After they all got cleaned, it ran fine. I'm not discounting that the surging could be something else but give a $5 can of maf/map spray a try.

Are you throwing any codes with the surging?

DMM
12-29-12, 05:46 PM
Thanks!

Yeah, I have modified the ETC and timing tables and it does feel MUCH better...but its still not 100%. Boost is instantaneous...6 PSI at 1600 RPM in an instant. I have had problems with the supercharger trying to suck the throttle closed at very low throttle input...PITA...but it is what it is. I think the vacuum bypass is adjustable, so I will look into slowing the transition into boost slightly. I will likely be calling Edelbrock on Monday and see if they can assist.

No DTC's at the moment...the P0068 has been disabled completely for the time being until I have everything dialed in.

RyRidesMotoX
12-30-12, 12:51 AM
When I would have terrible bucking issues at WOT it wouldn't throw a code. Next time you data log it, look at the MAF hz that was my only indication sometimes. If they are fairly constant you're probably ok, but if they bounce up and down like a set of boobies at a strip club your MAF is dirty. Also check the MAP sensors, the little rubber o ring things on them sometimes get messed up if you breath on them during install. Happened to me, it created a boost leak right next to the sensor and it took me ages to track it down. Check on the HPtuenrs forums about your throttle sensor code. That may be an indicator as to where you should start looking. I am not familiar enough with these cars yet to draw a conclusion as far as that goes but if your car doesn't know how far your throttle body is open in relation to the right foot, could cause some issues. Guys over at the HPtuner forums are really good at helping people out during the tuning stages of a build, which to me are the most difficult.

DMM
12-30-12, 09:38 PM
The more driving/logging I do, it seems like a possibly weak coil or injector (which are new). Since the only new thing here in the equation is the injectors, that's what i'm leaning towards at the moment.

RyRidesMotoX
12-31-12, 01:24 PM
It could be worse... Coils and plugs aren't to horrible to get to. Better to address it before it starts a new problem.

hXc95SLS
01-05-13, 07:21 PM
Awesome, awesome write up. I always wondered what a E-Force would be like on a V1. Subscribed for sure.

sssnake
01-08-13, 12:16 PM
Awesome build. I should finish up my sons car this weekend and start my own eforce build. I will likely pm you to pick your brain a bit.

DMM
01-08-13, 11:45 PM
Awesome build. I should finish up my sons car this weekend and start my own eforce build. I will likely pm you to pick your brain a bit.

Sure man, no problem! Mark (Cutter05) may have answers that I do not since he installed a LS3 before his E Force, and I retained the LS6. What are your plans for the HEX system? Are you going 2 BAR or staying MAF?

I found that most of my problem was too much boost. I ordered a bigger pulley for less boost and found that I had the 3.00" pulley installed instead of the 3.25". It looks as if the 3.00" will be good for probably 12 lbs of boost on my current setup which is way too much.

After the pulley change and expansion tank installation, it runs really well! No more hesitation issue's! Now that I can get some timing back into the tune the car feels stronger than it did with the Maggie even with only 6 lbs of boost. You can really feel the difference from about 4k on up, makes me realize how undersized the Maggie 112 really is for our application. Also, IAT's are running between 57* - 63* with the ambient temps around 45*.

sssnake
01-10-13, 11:26 AM
Sure man, no problem! Mark (Cutter05) may have answers that I do not since he installed a LS3 before his E Force, and I retained the LS6. What are your plans for the HEX system? Are you going 2 BAR or staying MAF?

I found that most of my problem was too much boost. I ordered a bigger pulley for less boost and found that I had the 3.00" pulley installed instead of the 3.25". It looks as if the 3.00" will be good for probably 12 lbs of boost on my current setup which is way too much.

After the pulley change and expansion tank installation, it runs really well! No more hesitation issue's! Now that I can get some timing back into the tune the car feels stronger than it did with the Maggie even with only 6 lbs of boost. You can really feel the difference from about 4k on up, makes me realize how undersized the Maggie 112 really is for our application. Also, IAT's are running between 57* - 63* with the ambient temps around 45*.

I will be moving to a super chiller once I complete the initial install and tune so no major work to upgrade the HEX.

My initial inclination is to stay MAF but the final decision will be made after I get initial MAF dyno tune and talk with my tuner.

After working on my sons fbody I am seriously considering biting the bullet and finding an LSA short block and doing the engine build outside the car and then doing a motor swap. I'm just too damn old and impatient to do all of the gymnastics I did on his engine build.

I am shooting for about 10lbs of boost but that is really a nebulous number in my mind. Better engine flow lowers boost readings but improves performance so... You get my point.

It has been killing me to have all of these parts laying around gathering dust but my sons car has been inoperable for longer than it has worked.

DMM
01-11-13, 08:57 PM
I will be moving to a super chiller once I complete the initial install and tune so no major work to upgrade the HEX.

My initial inclination is to stay MAF but the final decision will be made after I get initial MAF dyno tune and talk with my tuner.

After working on my sons fbody I am seriously considering biting the bullet and finding an LSA short block and doing the engine build outside the car and then doing a motor swap. I'm just too damn old and impatient to do all of the gymnastics I did on his engine build.

I am shooting for about 10lbs of boost but that is really a nebulous number in my mind. Better engine flow lowers boost readings but improves performance so... You get my point.

It has been killing me to have all of these parts laying around gathering dust but my sons car has been inoperable for longer than it has worked.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. This build was a PITA and I have my own shop complete with lift and every tool that one would ever need (from my dealership days long ago). My problem was all the little crap I had to run out looking for (the tap and die set to re-thread the oil pressure sensor for example). It's done now though, and you'll have less issue's than I did.

I was thinking about the killer chiller as well, but will likely wait until summer gets here and I see what IAT's I have to make a final decision. They're much lower than they ever were with the Maggie. I don't know if that's in part to the more efficient intercoolers inside the E Force, or the huge dual pass HEX...or the combination of both of them. Guess we'll see this summer.

I would at a minimum try to install the rear steam vent as I did, they make several aftermarket kits for this however it's pretty easy using another front steam vent tube assembly and piping it into the existing line.

sssnake
01-14-13, 04:28 PM
It is funny that you mention the coolant crossover pipe. My son wanted to ditch the old ls1 pcv system so we did the ls6 valley cover and associated mods. The one component we stuck with was the ls1 crossover tube. It had to be "adjusted" quite a bit to fit under his intake but we kept it for the same reasons you mentioned (hot spots on 7&8). I will come up with something to vent mine as well.

253ctsv
01-12-14, 09:16 PM
Builds finished? Numbers? Hows everything holding up. Im reading all these old builds trying to figure out what I want to do. I like the idea of keeping the ls6 and going fi but I dont think the maggie is enough for me...

DMM
01-13-14, 01:50 AM
Never had mine dyno'd since I do my own tuning. I now have more power than I think the Maggie could ever produce and am currently at 10 lbs of boost with cam and heads. I still have two pulley sizes and an OD crank pulley I can go when I get a forged shortblock. Unless you can get a complete Maggie for $3500-$4000 I wouldn't even consider it.

E-Force FTW!!!

253ctsv
01-13-14, 07:55 AM
Nice. What heads you running? If you could go back would you go a different route? Because a sc and forged bottom end is going to be in the neighborhood of a motor build right?

DMM
01-13-14, 04:31 PM
Here's the thing...FI serves to emulate larger displacement. To make power in an internal combustion engine you need oxygen, fuel, compression, and timing. Obviously, the more oxygen you can get into the the combustion chamber, the more fuel can be added, the more power you will ultimately make. You can employ a few different strategies here:
- Increase combustion chamber size to allow more oxygen under atmospheric pressure
- Use a compressor to pressurize the combustion chamber, thereby increasing available oxygen (Turbo; Supercharger)
- Use a chemical process to inject additional oxygen into the combustion chamber (N20)

The drawback of larger displacement is that you ALWAYS have the larger displacement, thus you will always have to fuel the additional displacement. Compressors allow a smaller, more fuel efficient engine to make comparable power and torque to a larger displacement engine without the handicap of excessive fuel consumption since the boost is load biased, and therefore not used in normal driving. If you're smart about it, you can spend about equal amounts of money and have similar performance and longevity between the two, however a smaller boosted engine will always be more fuel efficient. N20 is just a PITA to have to refill all the time, and it goes quick. It's very cheap, reliable power quickly though.

I am anticipating just forging the pistons and rods with a stock crank with stock displacement. I may end up having $2k in this endeavor. All told, I will still have less in my total build than if I were to purchase an LS7. Hope this answered all of your questions.

Here are some links to my build (sorry Mods, Google favors LS1Tech):

- Where I sourced everything: http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1586518-so-i-got-delivery-today.html
- Initial Build: http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1610867-2004-2007-cts-v-e-force-build-thread.html
- Stage II (Cam and Heads): http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1653334-e-force-stage-ii-cam-heads.html

253ctsv
01-13-14, 07:57 PM
Awsome thanks man. I know im building something. Realistically 1.5-2yrs out. But id like to figure out what im doing before I blow a bunch of money on something I didnt really want. ..

sssnake
01-16-14, 04:40 PM
Came in at 650 hp and 6lbs of boost w the EForce. If I had to do it over the only thing I would do differently is tune it myself and not buy the box 2 portion of the kit. Iwas garbage.

Damian,

You are the only other person I have ever heard describe what I like about a FI build, it is really displacement on demand. BTW I need toouch base with you on the videos again. Check your PM.

Charles

253ctsv
01-16-14, 06:31 PM
Thats pretty sweet. What motor?

farsighted770
01-17-14, 11:37 PM
Kay... Do mine next.

sssnake
01-20-14, 03:42 PM
Thats pretty sweet. What motor?

Stock bottom ls2

FuzzyLogic
01-20-14, 04:38 PM
650 crank horsepower?

RyRidesMotoX
01-20-14, 05:20 PM
That's pretty impressive for only 6psi. What tune are you running? Is it a custom tune or is it an edlebrock stock tune for their blower? I'm guessing custom since an edlebrock tune would be very conservative.

sssnake
01-21-14, 10:29 AM
650 crank horsepower?

whp - not into dyno racing (comparing my own measurements only) and yes I realize it is a pretty big number. I didn't check for corrections applied or anything else. Comparatively the stock engine was showing around 350hp and 370trq.

Custom tune.

FuzzyLogic
01-21-14, 11:21 AM
That horsepower value doesn't make sense, based on a simple sanity check. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi at sea level, and you're realizing an additional 6 psi. 350*((14.7+6)/14.7)= 493 RWHP.

At higher and higher boost pressures, this sanity check becomes increasingly non-conservative because it does not account for the decreasing density of the hot air charge and supercharger losses. For instance, it would predict that a 416 CID LS3 with 9:1 SCR (475 RWHP) would make 992 RWHP. But we know that that exact setup makes 750 RWHP on a V1.

sssnake
01-21-14, 11:45 AM
My build includes heads, cam, exhaust, fuel pump, BAP, and other goodies. Heads are the V2 heads that have been ported and polished. This thing flows pretty well. I have the dyno sheet from the next to last dyno session on my phone but the forum says it is too big. I'll see if I can get it to upload but it is in my build thread already. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/272785-parts-list-build-4.html

----------


That horsepower value doesn't make sense, based on a simple sanity check. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi at sea level, and you're realizing an additional 6 psi. 350*((14.7+6)/14.7)= 493 RWHP.

At higher and higher boost pressures, this sanity check becomes increasingly non-conservative because it does not account for the decreasing density of the hot air charge and supercharger losses. For instance, it would predict that a 416 CID LS3 with 9:1 SCR (475 RWHP) would make 992 RWHP. But we know that that exact setup makes 750 RWHP on a V1.

The temp of the air charge was definitely causing issues for me initially. The HE and pump provided in the kit had my IATs peaking around 150 degrees (on a 60 degree night). Now they are within 10 degrees of ambient. That allowed timing adjustments that resulted in most of my gains from 550 whp.

Other than that I dont believe you are accounting for my other mods. If u are the I guess I am just lucky :)

Kidding aside the thing pulls like an ox right now and I couldn't use more power if I had it. A new rear end is in my near future.

philistine
01-21-14, 11:58 AM
Came in at 650 hp and 6lbs of boost w the EForce.

That's believable. I've seen dyno sheets with heads, cam, intake giving 450whp on LS6. Rule of thumb is 25whp for every 1psi...so that is in the ballpark of 600whp. Give it some aggressive timing with 93 pump gas and you're there.

I bet it's a blast to drive!

I've been trying to understand the merit of forging the bottom which comes-n-go with FI discussions. Back in the day (2 decades ago) you rebuilt with forged because the manufacturing process for aftermarket pistons was much much cheaper than expensive casting process for the varieties of engines and rebuilds etc. So you basically got forged...that and custom grinds for compression. I recall them being very noisy till the engine warmed up.

^^^Having said all that, other than a little more knock protection I don't see where it is a necessity to forge a bottom for moderate power goals taking the LS2/LS6 to 600-700whp with a great flowing engine.

I am far from an expert with engine builds just trying to understand why sometimes the 'hype' of forging the bottom end becomes a necessity with some crowds when it comes to moderate power gains with FI. I do understand the differences with the grains and grain boundaries with forging vs casting as well as the manufacturing process.

sssnake
01-21-14, 12:10 PM
That's believable. I've seen dyno sheets with heads, cam, intake giving 450whp on LS6. Rule of thumb is 25whp for every 1psi...so that is in the ballpark of 600whp. Give it some aggressive timing with 93 pump gas and you're there.

I bet it's a blast to drive!

I've been trying to understand the merit of forging the bottom which comes-n-go with FI discussions. Back in the day (2 decades ago) you rebuilt with forged because the manufacturing process for aftermarket pistons was much much cheaper than expensive casting process for the varieties of engines and rebuilds etc. So you basically got forged...that and custom grinds for compression. I recall them being very noisy till the engine warmed up.

^^^Having said all that, other than a little more knock protection I don't see where it is a necessity to forge a bottom for moderate power goals taking the LS2/LS6 to 600-700whp with a great flowing engine.

I am far from an expert with engine builds just trying to understand why sometimes the 'hype' of forging the bottom end becomes a necessity with some crowds when it comes to moderate power gains with FI. I do understand the differences with the grains and grain boundaries with forging vs casting as well as the manufacturing process.

Like you said it comes down to safety margin. With all the additional systems in an FI build and aggressive tuning we have added complexity and reduced tolerance for issues. If you are not careful something will bite you. When you throw in the possibility of getting a low octane/bad batch of gas things can get ugly quick.

----------

Forgot to mention one thing, it is NOT a blast to drive right now as my professionally installed clutch is dragging and my power steering rack bit it. Once I get these worked out you can stop by and take it for a spin. We need to get together at one of the Huntsville autocross events anyway.

FuzzyLogic
01-21-14, 12:19 PM
It sounds like we're dealing with another case of the NA correction factor being applied to a FI build. Ssnake, can you check your dyno sheet to see if SAE or STD was applied?

sssnake
01-21-14, 12:49 PM
I'll try to dig them out. This is one of four cars I am modding right now so I try to keep everything electronically. So if it is not in the pic in my build thread (didn't see it when looking via phone) I likely won't have it.

----------

Actually there is a dropdown window that has SAE J1349 selected. I guess I need to read up on why that is not correct for FI cars.

philistine
01-21-14, 01:22 PM
Like you said it comes down to safety margin. With all the additional systems in an FI build and aggressive tuning we have added complexity and reduced tolerance for issues. If you are not careful something will bite you. When you throw in the possibility of getting a low octane/bad batch of gas things can get ugly quick.

Thanks.



Forgot to mention one thing, it is NOT a blast to drive right now as my professionally installed clutch is dragging and my power steering rack bit it. Once I get these worked out you can stop by and take it for a spin. We need to get together at one of the Huntsville autocross events anyway.

That's the 3rd bad rack reported in the last 2 months here and LS1tech - sheesh! Are you having disengagement problems with your clutch? There is an interesting thread on LS1tech modifying the clutch master cylinder:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1698529-tick-performance-c6-master-cts-v.html

sssnake
01-21-14, 04:10 PM
Yep, disengagement problems. I saw the thread and was following but thanks for the heads up.

ranger2525
01-21-14, 05:09 PM
What happened to kit that was being developed a couple of months ago? Is it more straight forward than this?

DMM
01-21-14, 06:40 PM
What happened to kit that was being developed a couple of months ago? Is it more straight forward than this?

No kit and most likely never will be. The LS2 is easy, the LS6 is a little more work although the hard stuff had already been figured out.

A member on the other board is working with a vendor to get what we can use for a decent price for the box1 pieces. Everything else is easily sourced. If you cannot order the stuff separately I'll gladly take the markup.

ranger2525
01-21-14, 06:57 PM
The OP on the other thread quoted me a price of $6550 and some change. Said it came with everything including instructions. I wouls have to get an LS2 TB and strut brace. Also modify my hood.

philistine
01-21-14, 09:11 PM
The OP on the other thread quoted me a price of $6550 and some change. Said it came with everything including instructions. I wouls have to get an LS2 TB and strut brace. Also modify my hood.

I believe DMM & sssnake have identified parts of the kit that are inefficient and/or waste of money that would ultimately not be used. Basically meaning that if you can shed the kit for the core components and save some cash, you could apply that money towards better components.

This is where a group buy on a core kit would be awesome if a vendor would release it at rock bottom prices. There is enough info floating around to piece together the rest.

DMM
01-21-14, 10:13 PM
Right - Tommy is negotiating with a vendor right now that has already given us a substantial discount on a group buy in the past, so it may be worth it to keep an eye over on the LS1Tech CTS-V forum for when something comes up. I am trying to document all of the parts that I used during my build (the final version) as the vendor may be able to provide these as well.

The thing to keep in mind here is the LS2 is much less involved and less expensive. You can also opt to use LS3/L92/LSA heads on an LS2 and use the square port version (I believe the Camaro/G8 Box 1).

For the LS6, you'll have to supply these additional parts over and above the LS2 '06 - '07 CTS-V's:
- Standard LS1/LQ4-9/L33 valley cover. You will have to drill the bolt holes so the counter sunk bolts can be installed.
- Must upgrade to the LS2 Throttle body/harness
- Must upgrade to the '06 - '07 strut tower brace. Have no idea if the '09+ will fit our application.
- Use a brass 3/8" NPT street 90* (re-threaded to fit the block) for the oil pressure sensor.

After Tommy gets a final deal on everything I'm sure he'll start a separate thread, which will likely be linked here.

ranger2525
01-22-14, 03:09 PM
Should I work the ls6 heads or go with another set of heads?
Also plan on using whatever cam tick racing recommends unless you guys know a better option.

philistine
01-22-14, 03:26 PM
Here is some fun reading material:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/317323-interesting-flow-data-long-thread.html

Hit or miss on the porting the LS6 heads but resale price is always good. Mamofied AFR heads flow really well based on the numerous threads floating around with flow data and dyno numbers. Might want to add Tony Mamo to your call list.

***Edit***
Without getting into specifics, just as you would get a custom cam for your set-up, you need the same with the heads. Chicken vs the egg which decides what. You can go with larger port volume/combustion chamber to lower CR and make it boost safer but still have to have the flow velocity - and a good cam to mate with those heads and supercharger.

Get all that and nice flowing exhaust, fueling, and great tuner - take it up to 8psi and snap some axles.

Mix-n-match incorrectly (or not optimized) and you're a tuner's nightmare.

ranger2525
01-22-14, 04:12 PM
I am trying to reach around 600whp as efficiently as possible. I have about 8k to spend. I am tossing around all options. It seems so far FI is the way to go. I don't want to have to custom fab a bunch of stuff. Maybe I dont have enough budget to get to my goals.

DMM
01-22-14, 04:26 PM
Should I work the ls6 heads or go with another set of heads?
Also plan on using whatever cam tick racing recommends unless you guys know a better option.

If you plan on more than 5-7 lbs of boost, you're going to have to reduce your static compression ratio (SCR). I do not care what anyone tells you. If you cannot do this through piston reliefs you will have to step up to a cylinder head with a larger combustion chamber. I chose the latter and went with LQ4/9 "317" heads as they have the exact same ports, valves, etc only with a larger 72cc chamber.

Martin Smallwood knows his stuff and you'll be in good hands. I used a Brian Tooley Stage 1 blower cam, and it works great. I suspect Martin would spec something in the same neighborhood.

lollygagger8
01-22-14, 04:29 PM
Right - Tommy is negotiating with a vendor right now that has already given us a substantial discount on a group buy in the past, so it may be worth it to keep an eye over on the LS1Tech CTS-V forum for when something comes up. I am trying to document all of the parts that I used during my build (the final version) as the vendor may be able to provide these as well.

The thing to keep in mind here is the LS2 is much less involved and less expensive. You can also opt to use LS3/L92/LSA heads on an LS2 and use the square port version (I believe the Camaro/G8 Box 1).

For the LS6, you'll have to supply these additional parts over and above the LS2 '06 - '07 CTS-V's:
- Standard LS1/LQ4-9/L33 valley cover. You will have to drill the bolt holes so the counter sunk bolts can be installed.
- Must upgrade to the LS2 Throttle body/harness
- Must upgrade to the '06 - '07 strut tower brace. Have no idea if the '09+ will fit our application.
- Use a brass 3/8" NPT street 90* (re-threaded to fit the block) for the oil pressure sensor.

After Tommy gets a final deal on everything I'm sure he'll start a separate thread, which will likely be linked here.

Well I have the Mamo AFR 215 heads but Tony said I'm around 11:1. I could sell the heads/cam/102 intake/TB/ <- since I'm guessing that won't fit on the S/C opening. Maybe I'd be better going with LS2 heads P&P'd? Maybe get a better blower cam?

LS6 here. And I want this "kit".

Badly.

ranger2525
01-22-14, 04:45 PM
Who am I kidding? LOL I am going to do the E-force. So I will call Martin and see what he suggests on the heads and cam. Is Tommy Compton working on this? And I don't see anything recent on the other forum. I am going to have some dead presidents burning a hole in my pocket next week and don't want to spend them on a hooker. So let's hurry this along shall we? :thumbsup:

253ctsv
01-22-14, 07:51 PM
I am trying to reach around 600whp as efficiently as possible. I have about 8k to spend. I am tossing around all options. It seems so far FI is the way to go. I don't want to have to custom fab a bunch of stuff. Maybe I dont have enough budget to get to my goals.

You dont. Even if you do it all your self and labor is ex-pen-sive. Im in pretty much the same boat as you. My current budget is 0. But after my car is paid off it will be about 1000 a week. From what ive seen you can expect about 10k+ just in parts to go over 600whp anotger maybe 5 or 6 in labor (estimated)

DMM
01-22-14, 10:41 PM
Well I have the Mamo AFR 215 heads but Tony said I'm around 11:1. I could sell the heads/cam/102 intake/TB/ <- since I'm guessing that won't fit on the S/C opening. Maybe I'd be better going with LS2 heads P&P'd? Maybe get a better blower cam?

LS6 here. And I want this "kit".

Badly.

Lolly!!

If you're really interested in an E-Force I would not worry about the heads...you still have the stock bottom end, correct? You can definitely get a cathedral head version of the supercharger to keep the Mamofied heads, just forge the pistons and rods and drop the compression ratio that way. Just keep in mind that you need to stay around 9.8:1 Max (preferably lower) or it will be a dog to drive on the street. This is what happened to me, I had to pull every bit of timing out of the tune in lower RPM or it would knock pretty hard.

philistine
01-22-14, 11:27 PM
If you plan on more than 5-7 lbs of boost, you're going to have to reduce your static compression ratio (SCR). I do not care what anyone tells you. If you cannot do this through piston reliefs you will have to step up to a cylinder head with a larger combustion chamber. I chose the latter and went with LQ4/9 "317" heads as they have the exact same ports, valves, etc only with a larger 72cc chamber.

Martin Smallwood knows his stuff and you'll be in good hands. I used a Brian Tooley Stage 1 blower cam, and it works great. I suspect Martin would spec something in the same neighborhood.

Yeah the LS6 with 243 heads w/64cc chamber (stock) are 10.5:1 CR. Slapping on some 317 heads w/72cc chamber drops it to 9.5:1 CR. No decking and just slap on a 317 head gasket.

2007V
01-23-14, 12:53 AM
You dont. Even if you do it all your self and labor is ex-pen-sive. Im in pretty much the same boat as you. My current budget is 0. But after my car is paid off it will be about 1000 a week. From what ive seen you can expect about 10k+ just in parts to go over 600whp anotger maybe 5 or 6 in labor (estimated)

Eforce $6000
Froozen boost IC $200
Bosch IC pump $100
Hose, relays, wiring, hardware $100
DW300 fuel pump $200
Tune HPtuners $600
Wideband $200
That would be dang close but also the absolute minimum

Additional:
Forged engine
Headers
317 heads
Gaskets
Arp hardware
Mizeren IC pump
iC fans
Water meth injection
Pulleys / ecs tensioner

253ctsv
01-23-14, 08:59 AM
Eforce $6000
Froozen boost IC $200
Bosch IC pump $100
Hose, relays, wiring, hardware $100
DW300 fuel pump $200
Tune HPtuners $600
Wideband $200
That would be dang close but also the absolute minimum

Additional:
Forged engine
Headers
317 heads
Gaskets
Arp hardware
Mizeren IC pump
iC fans
Water meth injection
Pulleys / ecs tensioner

Yeah. I'm surely no expert, but I dont think the minimum would get you around 600hp. And going into a build I think id rather over estimate cost.

FoD
01-23-14, 09:41 AM
The top list would be close, but from what I've seen from other builds, Headers, Cam/Springs would be almost necessary for you to hit 600RWHP.

ranger2525
01-23-14, 01:00 PM
I have full OBX headers now. I can do the labor myself. If I go with the "kit" And it's around 6k. I do a head/cam package from tick.around 3.5k. Do you think that gets me there? With a retune/dyno from my tuner of course.

----------

I should also be able to recoup some from selling the ls6 heads, manifold and Ported throttle body shouldn't I?

253ctsv
01-23-14, 03:04 PM
I have full OBX headers now. I can do the labor myself. If I go with the "kit" And it's around 6k. I do a head/cam package from tick.around 3.5k. Do you think that gets me there? With a retune/dyno from my tuner of course.

----------

I should also be able to recoup some from selling the ls6 heads, manifold and Ported throttle body shouldn't I?

Id think so. Thats my plan. Except probly port ls6 heads

ranger2525
01-23-14, 03:54 PM
That sounds good as well. But Your compression is going to be a problem as far as what i am understanding. I want the larger chambers to lower my compression. I can run more agressive tune and get far more from the TVS if I am understanding what I am reading.

darkman
01-23-14, 09:59 PM
I should also be able to recoup some from selling the ls6 heads, manifold and Ported throttle body shouldn't I? Yes. There is a robust market, largely from the F-body crowd, for LS6 heads and LS6 intakes. The marketability of a ported a throttlebody depends on largely on who did the porting.

253ctsv
01-23-14, 11:20 PM
That sounds good as well. But Your compression is going to be a problem as far as what i am understanding. I want the larger chambers to lower my compression. I can run more agressive tune and get far more from the TVS if I am understanding what I am reading.

My tuner said when they do the porting they can make the chamber bigger. That will solve the compression prob. He also said tge 243s with a good port job flow really well. Better than a lot of aftermarket heads.

tommy compton
01-24-14, 01:13 AM
Apparently the vendor hasn't heard back from his sales rep from Edelbrock, so is now waiting to hear back from the VP of sales at Edelbrock

lollygagger8
01-24-14, 03:11 PM
Lolly!!

If you're really interested in an E-Force I would not worry about the heads...you still have the stock bottom end, correct? You can definitely get a cathedral head version of the supercharger to keep the Mamofied heads, just forge the pistons and rods and drop the compression ratio that way. Just keep in mind that you need to stay around 9.8:1 Max (preferably lower) or it will be a dog to drive on the street. This is what happened to me, I had to pull every bit of timing out of the tune in lower RPM or it would knock pretty hard.

I know! I totally dig being N/A....but I want/need the extra HP. You know how it is...you get to 400 you want 500. You get to 500 you want 600. :lildevil:

Ya, stock bottom still. If I forge, how many more lbs could I crank up the boost? I read that 8 is max you want to run on a stock engine.

Would my best bet be to go back to stock heads (maybe get em ported?) and sell the Mamo heads/intake? Obviously get a different blower cam.

253ctsv
01-24-14, 07:00 PM
While theres definately some knowledgeable people here I think lots of people (like myself) just regurgitate shit we heard or read. Whitch might be good to get ideas but I think for trying to decide what heads to use and stuff people might wanna talk to an actual ls builder who really knows their shit... just my opinion tho

jweymar
01-25-14, 12:20 AM
10k for blower and heads...

ranger2525
01-28-14, 01:14 PM
I have talked to Martin @ Tick. Going to go with a set of the trick flow cnc 225s. and a NA cam for now. He says about 110hp gain. When they get this shit sorted out with the TVS I ill change cam profile and get stupid. I have done a katech ls9 clutch, last gen rear end geforce axles 1000hp.
So besides beafing the T56 and an 8.8 I have done the basics. We will see how long those 2 items and my stock bottom end last.

tommy compton
01-28-14, 02:38 PM
Just a bit of an update, I just got pricing on it and I think everyone will be quite pleased, I know I am. I waiting on an email back to finalize the purchase, once I do I'll put up the parts list and vendors name (once I check with him).

philistine
01-28-14, 02:41 PM
I have talked to Martin @ Tick. Going to go with a set of the trick flow cnc 225s. and a NA cam for now. He says about 110hp gain. When they get this shit sorted out with the TVS I ill change cam profile and get stupid. I have done a katech ls9 clutch, last gen rear end geforce axles 1000hp.
So besides beafing the T56 and an 8.8 I have done the basics. We will see how long those 2 items and my stock bottom end last.

What combustion chamber? I wonder how these compare with the AFR 215. Apparently Tony 'Mamofied' heads is the way to go searching LS1tech. I've sent him a couple PMs but haven't discussed price - I'm guessing astronomical.

----------


Just a bit of an update, I just got pricing on it and I think everyone will be quite pleased, I know I am. I waiting on an email back to finalize the purchase, once I do I'll put up the parts list and vendors name (once I check with him).

PM that price :)

tommy compton
01-28-14, 02:45 PM
Not letting the cat out of the bag untill I have mine purchased, and Vendor OK's it LOL

ranger2525
01-28-14, 03:18 PM
They are the same combustion chamber as the 243s. According to Martin they run these quite often with our ls6 with the TVS 2300 and have awesome results. I am by no means a tuning expert. But There is a guy in my area that has proven results with this setup and his tune according to Martin. Again I am shooting for about 600 whp and he is convinced that with his heads/cam and this guys tune I can achieve my goal.

DMM
01-28-14, 08:30 PM
I know! I totally dig being N/A....but I want/need the extra HP. You know how it is...you get to 400 you want 500. You get to 500 you want 600. :lildevil:

Ya, stock bottom still. If I forge, how many more lbs could I crank up the boost? I read that 8 is max you want to run on a stock engine.

Would my best bet be to go back to stock heads (maybe get em ported?) and sell the Mamo heads/intake? Obviously get a different blower cam.

If the tune is correct, you won't need to worry about how much boost. I'm currently at 10 lbs with a lowered SCR (static compression ratio). While not ideal, it's holding together quite well. You could keep the Mamo heads and use them or get ported stock castings. Ported heads do not make near the power difference on FI as they do NA (although they do help) since the runner is pressurized vice being vacuumed by the cylinder.

If you're going this route, plan about $10k as stated.



They are the same combustion chamber as the 243s. According to Martin they run these quite often with our ls6 with the TVS 2300 and have awesome results. I am by no means a tuning expert. But There is a guy in my area that has proven results with this setup and his tune according to Martin. Again I am shooting for about 600 whp and he is convinced that with his heads/cam and this guys tune I can achieve my goal.

Martin is a bad mofo when it comes to this stuff. However, in my personal experience, daily drivability suffers if you do not reduce the SCR. Changing the DCR (dynamic compression) did nothing to help. Just my experience. Still made good power up top at the expense of feeling like crap during normal driving. I don't need a dyno queen.

If it were me, I'd see what the heads, intake, and cam could go for to help offset the cost and then make the decision.



Just a bit of an update, I just got pricing on it and I think everyone will be quite pleased, I know I am. I waiting on an email back to finalize the purchase, once I do I'll put up the parts list and vendors name (once I check with him).

Kudos, Tommy! Glad you have been able to work something out! Will they offer the additional parts to make it a kit or would everyone still have to piece everything out?

tommy compton
01-29-14, 12:26 PM
It's not a kit, but like you, and thanks to your guidance , a partial kit with only the parts you need or want. Then sourcing out the few odds and ends.
It appears to be on par with what you paid DMM, maybe even cheaper, I opted for a few extra pieces that you did not so my price was just a tad over. I wanted the coil covers to see if I could make them work. I also ordered the wiring harness, not that I need it either, I already have my stuff rerouted and re wired for what I need. But if ordered without those pieces, price would probably be just under 5k.

2007V
01-29-14, 02:17 PM
Great! so who do we call? :)

lollygagger8
01-29-14, 02:30 PM
1-800-Ghostbusters?

Hook us up man!

2007V
01-29-14, 02:55 PM
Re-subscribing

tommy compton
01-29-14, 03:01 PM
Patience, I'll give all the info soon enough. I'll post up a parts list and all. I'd rather have the unit in hand and verify 100% fitament, but if others want the info before that, I'll post it up shortly.

2007V
01-29-14, 03:53 PM
Post it! Woohoo

BigDaddy-V
01-29-14, 04:05 PM
Hey Tommy,

Is this just a continuation of your other build you were doing? I was following along with that one and all your pics of the build and then it just seemed to vanish. Last I remember you were power cleaning your exhaust.

BDV

tommy compton
01-29-14, 06:07 PM
That other blower didn't work out for me, the manifold design for the whipple was crap, and my built engine and lower compression made the short comings of the manifold design worse. Basically the manifold was too small for my engine, so I could either build a one off of a better manifold design, or buy a different manifold and build a mounting plate to make it work. But I got sick of spending money on tune time, and not driving my car. So this is what I'm doing instead, something a little more bolt on.

BigDaddy-V
01-29-14, 07:09 PM
that makes sense then. Just hadn't seen it in awhile and then saw you posting here. Still can't decide if I want to go FI someday or not. The car will be a DD for a while to come so I have plenty of time to decide or not, and there might be several more options out there come my turn. With everybody seeming to be going turbo anymore I don't want to be left in the dust! Also more people seem to be off the maggies and onto the E-Forces now it is getting a little more confusing on which to do.

BDV

DMM
01-29-14, 07:23 PM
Forgot about the fuel line parts:

(1) RUS-644020 ADAPTER FITTING
(1) RUS-650400 BILLET Y BLOCK
(1) RUS-670343 FITTING
(6) SUM-220166B -6 O-RING TO -6 FLARE FIT BLK
(4) SUM-220687B Fitting, Hose End, 90 Degree, -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN, Aluminum, Black Anodized, Each
(2) SUM-220690B Fitting, Hose End, Straight, -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN, Aluminum, Black Anodized, Each
(4) Ft bulk -6 Braided Steel Line

I used standard braided steel line...have not had an issue at all. If you step up to Teflon line you'll ave to change the hose end fitting however everything else will be the same. The RUS-670343 is required on the passenger side to extend the fitting so the female 90* as the E-Force manifold will interfere otherwise. This will allow placement of a fuel pressure sensor (not really enough room for a gauge) to be installed is desired.

tommy compton
01-29-14, 08:23 PM
Here's the list
Eforce 15440
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/tommycompton/CEEE1B3E-C45C-43FF-981D-0351B78041FE.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/tommycompton/media/CEEE1B3E-C45C-43FF-981D-0351B78041FE.jpg.html)
the vendor
Mike F
S-K Speed Racing Equipment
The Professional Performance People
www.skspeed.com (http://www.skspeed.com/)

Few things that I ordered that probably aren't needed, like the pump bracket, but I wanted to check it out.
DMM has all the other parts listed on his threads. Once I get all the parts I'll eventually post all in one thread.
Mike says throw him a message for pricing.

2007V
01-29-14, 09:24 PM
Looks great!

Anyone want to buy a Magnacharger?

BigDaddy-V
01-29-14, 09:30 PM
If you have a lay a way plan I will take it! HEHE.

BDV

253ctsv
01-29-14, 09:58 PM
Thats the guy from the mcleod group buy. Was pretty cool and easy to work with. Email sent!

tommy compton
01-30-14, 10:50 AM
Should also note, some people may need the MAF and such.
Plus Ls6 guys will need some extras, like ls2 throttle body, valley cover.
It's probably best to get the parts list from Mike and check off what you want and don't want.
I think I have a full list I can post up too.

tommy compton
01-30-14, 01:34 PM
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/tommycompton/C53717FF-4894-4017-99B8-F3C38BB99985.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/tommycompton/media/C53717FF-4894-4017-99B8-F3C38BB99985.jpg.html)

What I crossed off


http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/tommycompton/41256330-DF8E-4FD3-B4C2-4A1BEE27DC4F.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/tommycompton/media/41256330-DF8E-4FD3-B4C2-4A1BEE27DC4F.jpg.html)

philistine
03-12-14, 11:17 AM
Once I get all the parts I'll eventually post all in one thread.
Any updates? Eforce builds/install seem to be scattered like information relics in performance section/general section and LS1tech. I think what's needed is a comprehensive parts list.

1) Parts needed from an Edelbrock vendor e.g. core kit, no extras
2) Parts needed to complete the kit with better aftermarket e.g. Heat exchanger and associated fittings
3) Conversion parts to make the kit fit with LS2 or LS6
4) Replacement sensors or any relocation to upgrade OEM parts for something more robust.
5) Recommended spark plugs, injectors, and cam that go well with the kit.

FuzzyLogic
03-12-14, 02:09 PM
Philistine, if you really want the best parts list for a TVS2300, I recommend contacting S-Cam on LS1Tech, who has a functioning 750 RWHP CTS-V with a 416 CID LS3.

He may or may not elect to help, since he's one of the more reticent members (I don't think he likes being bothered), but he can be an absolute wealth of knowledge when he wants to be. As far as I know, his build has been functioning for the last two years or so without fault.


416 ci LS3, 10.5-1 compression, custom ground ed curtis cam, lsa stage 2 ported cnc'ed west coast cylinder heads, 1 7/8 headers, overdriven innovators west crank pulley, 2.7 upper pulley, over driven cog drive, meth injection, TVS 2300 from a g8 gxp kit, ported throttlebody, 4 inch intake, 18.5 lbs of boost , surge tank fuel system with dual bosch 044s being fed by an upgraded intank pump, full return fuel system, 850 cc injectors, phenolic spacer in the tvs, port matched lower tvs base to the lsa ported heads, engine oil cooler...

Thats the quick and dirty build list on the motor....

tommy compton
03-12-14, 04:32 PM
Any updates? Eforce builds/install seem to be scattered like information relics in performance section/general section and LS1tech. I think what's needed is a comprehensive parts list.

1) Parts needed from an Edelbrock vendor e.g. core kit, no extras
2) Parts needed to complete the kit with better aftermarket e.g. Heat exchanger and associated fittings
3) Conversion parts to make the kit fit with LS2 or LS6
4) Replacement sensors or any relocation to upgrade OEM parts for something more robust.
5) Recommended spark plugs, injectors, and cam that go well with the kit.
Still waiting on delivery of the eforce, apparently edelbrock just did a production run onthe head units. so any day now it should be getting shipped out.

DMM
03-12-14, 09:00 PM
Any updates? Eforce builds/install seem to be scattered like information relics in performance section/general section and LS1tech. I think what's needed is a comprehensive parts list.

1) Parts needed from an Edelbrock vendor e.g. core kit, no extras
2) Parts needed to complete the kit with better aftermarket e.g. Heat exchanger and associated fittings
3) Conversion parts to make the kit fit with LS2 or LS6
4) Replacement sensors or any relocation to upgrade OEM parts for something more robust.
5) Recommended spark plugs, injectors, and cam that go well with the kit.


I have listed everything required many, many times on several threads on both forums. I'm not taking the time to link everything on my iPhone while I'm out of the country, if you need a list and cannot find it through searching the threads PM me and I will give you the info. The only main diff is the valley cover and throttle body. My thread has everything required for an '04-'05 with knock sensors in the "V" of the engine.

tommy compton
03-27-14, 09:07 PM
Update!!! Got a delivery today.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/tommycompton/42B4B2C8-D7BA-491D-91DE-44B9C9BB8B4E.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/tommycompton/media/42B4B2C8-D7BA-491D-91DE-44B9C9BB8B4E.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/tommycompton/7A7BB8DA-2C8A-48B4-8EDB-0C020E8C4579.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/tommycompton/media/7A7BB8DA-2C8A-48B4-8EDB-0C020E8C4579.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/tommycompton/FE3E5B68-7CCB-45AC-9F79-79DE165B8E2D.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/tommycompton/media/FE3E5B68-7CCB-45AC-9F79-79DE165B8E2D.jpg.html)
Thanks to Mike at SK speed for making this happen and all the extra goodies he sent!
Was well packaged and worth the wait.
As you can see from the pics the snout is facing the right direction :)

philistine
03-27-14, 09:35 PM
That's awesome! I'm excited too! Curious, did you go with cathedral or rectangular ports? I'm trying to come up to speed on this.

tommy compton
03-27-14, 09:49 PM
That's awesome! I'm excited too! Curious, did you go with cathedral or rectangular ports? I'm trying to come up to speed on this.
Cathedral ports, I have AFR heads, so no getting rid of those.

darkman
03-27-14, 10:00 PM
Are you gonna paint it yellow?

tommy compton
03-27-14, 10:02 PM
not likely, not sure it would look as good as the whipple.

07cadv
03-28-14, 02:28 PM
That is a sweet looking setup. Wish I had the cash laying around to do one.

lollygagger8
04-01-14, 03:03 PM
Can't wait for the writeup Tommy....that looks phenom!!

LumberjackHering
04-12-14, 08:48 AM
Now I have all this money and I'm waiting for the e force to be finalized.

grocerygetter
04-27-14, 08:32 AM
I emailed them, he said it is ready to go and shot me pricing.
What shop is it? Sk speed? I asked him and I can post here too...is this kit turn key complete other than fabbing an air intake tube? With fuel system? ...just need a custom tune?
I would be in if I could order it turn key plus sort this stuff out to order myself:
- Standard LS1/LQ4-9/L33 valley cover. You will have to drill the bolt holes so the counter sunk bolts can be installed.
- Must upgrade to the LS2 Throttle body/harness
- Must upgrade to the '06 - '07 strut tower brace. Have no idea if the '09+ will fit our application.
- Use a brass 3/8" NPT street 90* (re-threaded to fit the block) for the oil pressure sensor.

2007V
05-04-14, 09:35 PM
Do you know the blower PN for retangular port heads?

cutter5o
05-26-14, 09:37 AM
I emailed them, he said it is ready to go and shot me pricing.
What shop is it? Sk speed? I asked him and I can post here too...is this kit turn key complete other than fabbing an air intake tube? With fuel system? ...just need a custom tune?
I would be in if I could order it turn key plus sort this stuff out to order myself:
- Standard LS1/LQ4-9/L33 valley cover. You will have to drill the bolt holes so the counter sunk bolts can be installed.
- Must upgrade to the LS2 Throttle body/harness
- Must upgrade to the '06 - '07 strut tower brace. Have no idea if the '09+ will fit our application.
- Use a brass 3/8" NPT street 90* (re-threaded to fit the block) for the oil pressure sensor.

I can take a picture of my intake setup. Its pretty easy. I used some marine exhaust elbows and 4 inch pipe. I think its stainless. Ill look up the elbows and post the part numbers if I can find them

cutter5o
05-26-14, 10:00 AM
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/product.do?part=111021&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=product_ad&gclid=CjgKEAjwzIucBRDzjIz9qMOB3TASJABBIwL155qwkTg9 zsWIVFC0s1rbwgpluNWSGH5lB2SGkEsFePD_BwE#

You have to trim the elbows some. The red stuff is plastidip I still need to work on removing. I sprayed it to show where I had to carve up my hood so it would close over the throttle body and supercharger

cutter5o
05-26-14, 10:07 PM
Also if your doing the E-Force and you plan to upgrade beyond the stock pulley then it is recommended that you do the following fix to the fuel rails. As shipped the fuel feeds one side of the fuel rails, crosses the front and then dead heads on the other side. When more fuel is required after upgrading the last two cylinders are starved for fuel. Jannety racing came up with a solution for the Camaro guys. Its a Y fitting that feeds both sides of the rails with the crossover in the front. This is a list of the part numbers needed to make it work on the V kit
FRA-371012 HOSE ASSY STR X STR ALUM NUT A $22.95 2 $45.90
RUS-644020 ADAPTER FITTING A $11.95 1 $11.95
RUS-650400 BILLET Y BLOCK A $17.95 1 $17.95
RUS-670343 FITTING $13.95 1 $13.95
SUM-220166B -6 O-RING TO -6 FLARE FIT BLK A $6.95 4 $27.8

All parts ordered from summit to make the Y setup that connects to the E-Force fuel rails