: TVS--1900 or 2300?



fre1102
12-22-12, 12:57 PM
I'd like to supercharge my V1. It seems like the TVS is the way to go, but requires a little more work. It also seems like there are two different units, a 1900 and a 2300. It seems like the 2300 is the 'larger' unit and pushes more air.

Can anyone point out places to look for more data, or will just one of these work on the V1 with the LS2? I'd like to get started on this over Christmas. So do I want the 1900 or the 2300?

Oh, if either work, I don't have any goals to have the highest RWHP numbers, I just want a faster daily driver. It'd be nice to be able to upgrade it more later, but I'm not looking to set any records.

OneFast V
12-22-12, 01:08 PM
Edelbrock eforce. Easiest solution thus far search eforce on lstech

fre1102
12-22-12, 01:17 PM
Search just in the CTS-V section, or will anything with an LS2 motor be the same? I thought there were fitment issues specific to the Cadillac.

FuzzyLogic
12-22-12, 01:59 PM
Search just in the CTS-V section, or will anything with an LS2 motor be the same? I thought there were fitment issues specific to the Cadillac.

You're not going to find a how-to guide. There are about 20 first generation CTS-Vs with superchargers other than the MP112 on them, and each one is unique as its owner.

You're going to be basically doing custom everything if you stick with the LS2. Frankly, your motor isn't robust enough to handle a TVS2300. See multiple recent threads about people blowing up their LS6/LS2 CTS-V motors with 8 psid+. If you're smart, you'll start by buying or building a new forged and balanced 402-416 CID LS3 shortblock with LSA heads ($6-8k), and then applying a G8 TVS2300 kit (another $7-8k). Between the motor swap and the supercharger, you'll want to budget around $7000 to build your own 8.8 kit, develop your own custom triple-pump fueling system with surge tank, and do a Viper spec T-56 overhaul.

FoD
12-22-12, 03:25 PM
And after you use your trusty calculator and add all of that up, a V2 starts to make A LOT of sense.

FuzzyLogic
12-22-12, 03:39 PM
And after you use your trusty calculator and add all of that up, a V2 starts to make A LOT of sense.

Except that a 418 TSP LS3 with a TVS2300 running 14 lbs of boost is going to do 725 RWHP, weigh 3850 lbs, and cost $20,000 (worst case) on top of what you have right now. I forgot to mention that the $7000 for the driveline upgrade factors in $3600 for the DIY 8.8 job, 1000 HP axles, and a 250 mph carbon fiber driveshaft. $1100 for a 1000 HP McLeod RXT clutch and flywheel leaves you with a very generous $2300 to do whatever you want to do with your stock T56.

A used stock V2 with 60,000 miles will cost $30k after your first generation CTS-V trade-in and weighs 4250 lbs. After you add an AIRAID and 2.55" pulley, it'll do 535 RWHP at 6000 RPM and 550 RWTQ at 3000 RPM.

Assuming you have a nicely modified CTS-V right now, making 400 RWHP, the cost of doing a motor/supercharger upgrade will cost you $61.54 per additional RWHP. Buying that second generation CTS-V will net you a used motor and cost you $222.22 per additional RWHP.

Final V1 weight/power: 0.1883
Final V2 weight/power: 0.1259 (50% less)

FoD
12-22-12, 05:16 PM
All the above is true. If you ever plan to sell you're car, and maybe you don't, but I'm sure others do, dumping 30k into a car worth no more than 20k now is bad juju for resale worth.

FuzzyLogic
12-22-12, 05:46 PM
All the above is true. If you ever plan to sell you're car, and maybe you don't, but I'm sure others do, dumping 30k into a car worth no more than 20k now is bad juju for resale worth.

Frankly, I don't care about resale. I care about two things:

1. How fast it is.
2. How desirable it looks (perceived value).

If you're hung up on model years, you'll be locked into a never-ending buy-sell loop and never own a truly awesome car. Unless you can drop $250,000 on a car that's awesome out of the factory.

OneFast V
12-22-12, 06:01 PM
Search just in the CTS-V section, or will anything with an LS2 motor be the same? I thought there were fitment issues specific to the Cadillac.

search in the CTS-V section for a thread by DMM. there is basically a "bolt on" edelbrock e-force that can be installed very near identical to that of the magnuson mp112. http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1586518-so-i-got-delivery-today.html

If you want a very simple install and dont want to source parts yourself you can buy the part of the 04-07 CTS-V magnuson MP112 kit that includes everything minus the blower/injectors/intake manifold. All you will need it to get creative with an air intake and get a dyno tune. this would be a very straight forward build and cost you between 6-7.5k

DMM
12-22-12, 08:18 PM
Working on the build thread now...will copy it to this site as well when completed.

rlj5
12-22-12, 09:44 PM
Frankly, I don't care about resale. I care about two things:

1. How fast it is.
2. How desirable it looks (perceived value).

If you're hung up on model years, you'll be locked into a never-ending buy-sell loop and never own a truly awesome car. Unless you can drop $250,000 on a car that's awesome out of the factory.


X2

Doesn't make any difference what it was , I've never been able to get my investment back when I'm building a
Toy to play with.
I guess that's why I've always kept vehicles till the wheels fall off & there worth nothing as long as it's what I
want it to be .
So,I have to agree 100% with FuzzyLogic on this one.............

fre1102
12-23-12, 01:54 AM
You're not going to find a how-to guide. There are about 20 first generation CTS-Vs with superchargers other than the MP112 on them, and each one is unique as its owner.

You're going to be basically doing custom everything if you stick with the LS2. Frankly, your motor isn't robust enough to handle a TVS2300. See multiple recent threads about people blowing up their LS6/LS2 CTS-V motors with 8 psid+. If you're smart, you'll start by buying or building a new forged and balanced 402-416 CID LS3 shortblock with LSA heads ($6-8k), and then applying a G8 TVS2300 kit (another $7-8k). Between the motor swap and the supercharger, you'll want to budget around $7000 to build your own 8.8 kit, develop your own custom triple-pump fueling system with surge tank, and do a Viper spec T-56 overhaul.

I don't mind some custom work, but I don't want to be the first guy to do anything. If I can't have a kit or a how-to, I at least want another couple guys that have done the same thing to be able to ask questions.

I'll have to think long and hard about a V2, I guess. It looks like I can get a V2 for about $20k more than my V1. If I'm spending $20k anyway, I'll have to decide if I like the V2 better. It'd be nice if I'd have a better car if I dump $20k into the V1, but I have to wonder if the V1 can compete with the V2 as a daily driver. It's hard to find a V2 in a manual, though. At least harder than I thought it would be.

I'll go test drive some V2s. I guess if I can find someone with a supercharged V1 and they'll let me drive it, or take me for a ride, I'll see if I think it's worth the money.

I saw ads for Magnusen superchargers for $4500, I was hoping to scrounge and cobble together a kit for less if I could. Then follow the DIY Ford rear end thread, it looks like you'll be able to make your own brackets soon enough and I can build the rear end.

But there's simply no way I'm doing a motor swap. If that's what it takes, I'll just buy a V2. That's a shame--I'd have thought the LS2 was up to it. But I'm not going to drop $20k into this car just to be as good as a V2. I don't like the V2 as much as the V1, and it's heavier, and I don't need it to make complete economic sense. But for the same money as a V2, I'd need a good argument for not just buying a V2.

So if I don't want to crack open the motor, should I just stick with the Magnusen? Is the TVS really not to be used with an OEM LS2? Guys are advertising Magnusens for ~$4,000. I'd try that.

OneFast V
12-23-12, 02:09 AM
I don't mind some custom work, but I don't want to be the first guy to do anything. If I can't have a kit or a how-to, I at least want another couple guys that have done the same thing to be able to ask questions.

I'll have to think long and hard about a V2, I guess. It looks like I can get a V2 for about $20k more than my V1. If I'm spending $20k anyway, I'll have to decide if I like the V2 better. It'd be nice if I'd have a better car if I dump $20k into the V1, but I have to wonder if the V1 can compete with the V2 as a daily driver. It's hard to find a V2 in a manual, though. At least harder than I thought it would be.

I'll go test drive some V2s. I guess if I can find someone with a supercharged V1 and they'll let me drive it, or take me for a ride, I'll see if I think it's worth the money.

I saw ads for Magnusen superchargers for $4500, I was hoping to scrounge and cobble together a kit for less if I could. Then follow the DIY Ford rear end thread, it looks like you'll be able to make your own brackets soon enough and I can build the rear end.

But there's simply no way I'm doing a motor swap. If that's what it takes, I'll just buy a V2. That's a shame--I'd have thought the LS2 was up to it. But I'm not going to drop $20k into this car just to be as good as a V2. I don't like the V2 as much as the V1, and it's heavier, and I don't need it to make complete economic sense. But for the same money as a V2, I'd need a good argument for not just buying a V2.

So if I don't want to crack open the motor, should I just stick with the Magnusen? Is the TVS really not to be used with an OEM LS2? Guys are advertising Magnusens for ~$4,000. I'd try that.


Edelbrock eforce.... I have an mp112 and am continually considering switching. You could definitely complete it for under 7k if you source a lot of the parts yourself.

fre1102
12-23-12, 03:37 PM
Edelbrock eforce.... I have an mp112 and am continually considering switching. You could definitely complete it for under 7k if you source a lot of the parts yourself.

I don't mind ordering all the parts myself and even fabbing some stuff up. I just don't want to stuff a round peg into a square hole. Do you know anyone else that has one in a V1 on a LS2? I saw the psychobilly thread, but it looks like he's got an LS3 or LSA. If I'm getting a new engine, it'll have a V2 wrapped around it.

FuzzyLogic
12-23-12, 03:42 PM
I don't mind ordering all the parts myself and even fabbing some stuff up. I just don't want to stuff a round peg into a square hole. Do you know anyone else that has one in a V1 on a LS2? I saw the psychobilly thread, but it looks like he's got an LS3 or LSA. If I'm getting a new engine, it'll have a V2 wrapped around it.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1588197-argh-blew-motor.html

Blew up a stock LS6 CTS-V motor using only 9 psid.

OneFast V
12-23-12, 04:57 PM
http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1588197-argh-blew-motor.html

Blew up a stock LS6 CTS-V motor using only 9 psid.

That was a 3.3l whipple, one of the largest blower you can get... At 9 Psi thats very different than a Tvs 1900 or 2300.

etcts-v
12-24-12, 04:14 AM
I like Fuzzy's logic makes me feel better about dropping another $15k in my motor and drivetrain! mod hell never ends...

I8URSVT
12-24-12, 05:30 PM
personally i think the v1 looks better than the v2. i'm planning to do a ls3 based motor with an e-force down the road. with a built rear-end and trans and some suspension work, a built v1 should run circles around its heavier brother.

also, once you start doing more than the "simple" bolt ons on the v2 it gets very expensive as well. Gatta pay to play.

etcts-v
12-26-12, 02:29 PM
^^ Amen, the only thing I don't like about my car is the interior, the V2 interior is gorgeous in my opinion.

The LS3 route Fuzzy is going is what I would like to do, I think he's laid out a great powerplant and drive train plan.

TheLostDriver
12-26-12, 03:08 PM
Just get a Maggie. Doesn't sound like you're power hungry. Blower cam, head job, fast intake and be done.