: Thinking about trading in Jaguar XF for XTS. Need opinions on your XTS's...thanks.



TheLegend
12-17-12, 05:07 PM
I have a supercharged 09 Jaguar XF and I'm thinking of trading it in for the XTS. Not sure yet but I do like what Cadillac has done with the new design. I would like to get views and opinions of your XTS experience thus far, and pics if possible. Thanks.

CAPT Mike
12-17-12, 08:33 PM
Drive your Jag to the nearest Caddy dealer and drive an XTS. Pictures won't help you. Your car has far more power than the Caddy and drinks alot more fuel and Premium fuel as well. I've driven XJ's and they remind me of the "handling" of the old Mercury Grand Marquis; boatlike and zero feel to the road. My brother had your Jag model and it was beautiful but his happiest day was when he traded it in. But back to your situation, you need to put both vehicles side by side and decide which one you like more and then drive the Caddy and make up your mind. Personally, I just can't see myself buying a vehicle owned by TaTa motors out of India. Sorry. Buy American! [I know the car is built in Canada]

TheLegend
12-18-12, 08:21 AM
Well, I don't want to go to the Caddy dealer now because I'm afraid that I may be tempted to go against my own personal rules, which is buying a luxury car new. I don't want to be the one that suffers that big deprecation of 15K+ in the first year. I got my '09 for 42K because I purchased 20 months old, versus the brand new price of 68K. And most people still think it's new lol. One thing I've noticed is that the XTS is listed with about 17MPG city. I get 18MPG city and I have a V8 with a lot more horsepower. I was hoping to get more MPG if I'm going to give up my power.

CAPT Mike
12-18-12, 11:06 AM
18 vs 17mpg vs power - Don't waste your time, but don't forget regular vs premium fuel prices. Or go to your caddy dealer after you put your long pants on. Just kidding. You've got to drive the car to decide.

rjm
12-18-12, 12:52 PM
2011 XF here and thinking the same.

While the power in the XF is seductive, the rest of the Jag experience has left me cold. Service is beyond horrible and corporate Jag is completely useless. Not that I've had many problems with the car, but the dealer told me:"Yeah, They all suck!", and service tech told me:"You've been driving a Cadillac too long, you're expecting too much."

Thought of joining the Jaguar Forums just to reply to those guys telling you that getting a Cadillac is a downgrade. Based on my experience, it would be a significant upgrade.

Only reason I still have the Jag is resale value is in the cellar. Taking into account the significant discount I received buying an '11 when the dealer had already received a shipment of '12s, and I had a significant downpayment, I still owe more than its worth.

Taking everything into account, I'd never buy another Jag, new or used.

Cadillac Cust Svc
12-18-12, 03:10 PM
TheLegend, I'm excited you're considering an XTS! Have you already checked out the specifications on this helpful site? http://media.cadillac.com/media/us/en/cadillac/vehicles/xts/2013.html If you have any vehicle questions or would like me to send product information to your mailing address, please don't hesitate to email me anytime at Katie_Lucille@gmexpert.com.

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service

TheLegend
12-18-12, 05:58 PM
RJM,

Did you get your Jag brand new? If so, then you will be upside down most likely. I got mines for about 42K, and last I checked I owed about 33K. I don't think I would be upside down but you never know. And if that's the case then I'm stuck until I pay it off. But I never buy a luxury vehicle new. My cousin is a salesman for Mercedes and he told me to never buy these vehicles brand new. They are marked up to high for you not to lose a lot of value in the first few years. You buy a 62K vehicle and in one year it's worth about 45K maybe? After a couple years the value will stop dropping as much. And according to him, at that point is when it's good to buy one.

You are correct, Jaguar Corporate is a joke. I'm having a problem with my over-head dome light(map light). It's a fairly known problem where it comes on intermittently on it's own without touching it. I guess it's a little to touch sensitive. But I took it to the dealer twice and they worked a bulletin by Jaguar that says for them to clean the contacts inside the light. They did that twice, however that's really just a patch job as the problem comes back after a month or two. Now my warranty is up and I'm having problems with them fixing this issue that they patched along while it was in warranty. Now they trying to say they're no longer responsible. I called Jag corporate and they called me back and offered me 20% towards a new over-head light unit. Which is $1,000. I told them I didn't think it was fair for me to pay anything for the fix because they didn't fix it correctly while it was in warranty. But of course they think it's fair. I do have an extended warranty package but I was trying to get these clowns to fix it on their own cost and not threw my own insurance package. I have not had any other problems but this is not sitting well with me.

A few on the Jag forums is down talking the XTS like it's a HUGE drop-off and I really don't see it. I think the XTS is beautiful but I will continue to weigh it out.

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TheLegend, I'm excited you're considering an XTS! Have you already checked out the specifications on this helpful site? http://media.cadillac.com/media/us/en/cadillac/vehicles/xts/2013.html If you have any vehicle questions or would like me to send product information to your mailing address, please don't hesitate to email me anytime at Katie_Lucille@gmexpert.com.

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service

Thanks, I will check this out

rjm
12-18-12, 09:21 PM
TheLegend,

Yes it was purchased new. Normally I lease my luxury cars for many of the reasons you articulated, as well as learning from experience the costs associated with out of warranty repairs. Decided to purchase as her car--'03 CTS--was totaled in once-in-a-lifetime hail storm. Even with end of year discount--dealer had received a shipment of '12s--and substantial downpayment, could probably sell it for loan payoff. No way I could trade it. Fortunately, its been mostly trouble free. Purchased late September so really didn't have need of a/c until spring and found out the a/c blew cool air. Also discovered cooled seats didn't work. Dealers response was "Yeah, the all suck," and when I pressed them to fix it their response was "You've been driving a Cadillac too long, you're expecting too much." (I should add dealer knows our family had owned/leased Cadillacs for years.) That's when I contacted corporate. A nice young lady took the information and assured me someone would return the call. A customer who works in the motorpool overheard my conversation with corporate and offered to look at the car. Turns out the system was low on refrigerant. They couldn't do anything about the cooled seats, but at least the a/c was functioning. TWO MONTHS LATER, someone from corporate Jag phoned and while she was very polite/friendly, she was completely useless telling me: "Each dealer is independent of Jaguar USA and there is absolutely nothing we can do to force them to repair your car. Sorry. If there's anything else we can do for you, we're here 24/7. Thank you for being a loyal Jaguar owner." That's literally all she said to me. Unbelievable. Also have experienced the overhead map light flashing and the dealer quickly replaced the entire overhead console, under warranty. Problem wise, that's it. Granted the car has all of 6000 miles on it, and as little as its driven I'm very surprised its that high. Do try to drive it once a week to keep flat spots off the tires and ensure the battery remains charged. Remarkably, its not even been driven in the rain.

I've read the comments on the Jaguar Forums, and based on my experience, they're backward--its been a step down going to Jaguar.

While I'm not thrilled with the XTS, at least I know my Cadillac dealer respects/values me as a person and a customer and genuinely wants/appreciates my business.

Of course, I may just suck it up and get the S550 I said I was going to get before being talked into something else.

CAPT Mike
12-19-12, 10:04 AM
As iI said earlier, my brother SC Jag was beautiful and he was happiest the day he traded it in. BTW, with all the aggravation you're having with the TaTa Jaguar, how much is it worth to you to get rid of it and start fresh? And yes, sometimes when you need to do that, you need to stand ready to take it in the shorts. You won't be the first - take it from one who knows ;)

TheLegend
12-19-12, 10:08 AM
RJM,

Wow! So they never fixed the cooled seats? I think an alarming amount of people have had a problem with this touch sensitive map light(probably should've been a re-call). I would've just preferred a push button than go through this. Since the replacement of your unit, any problems? That S550 is nice with a nice price tag! lol Someone asked me about getting that Jaguar XJ and I'm sorry, I have to duck that price tag :duck:.

Yeah, on the Jag forums they completely dogged the XTS like it was nothing. I'm just going to wait until I see one close-up and the interior. A V8 version probably would seal the deal though. I'm not sure why Cadillac didn't give a option for V8.

This is probably my last Jag unfortunately. Not because of the problems I've had with their customer service, I think every car has some sub par customer service depending on the quality of the individuals at the local dealer. I'm sure some where there is a Cadillac dealer that don't do things the way they should. So its not necessarily a brand problem. But my reasoning is because of their lack of innovation. I don't think they put much design creativity into the 12's. Jag completely copied off Audi and the popular trend of LED lights. Which is cool if they done it originally with the XF, but they came late in the game with the LEDs, and with ZERO innovation. For example, Cadillac didn't just copy the popular trend, they were creative IMO with the vertical LEDs on the XTS. And Mercedes was a little innovative as well with their LEDs. Jaguar just pretty much copied the same style as Audi. I also don't like what they did with the back chrome strip bar. On our XF's, it has J A G U A R inscribed in the chrome strip, I love that. Why remove it? IMO, there is nothing about the new XF's that made me want to trade in my 09 and make me wish I had a newer model.

Also, you don't seem to impressed with the XTS. What is it that you may not like about it?
I like the aggressive front end of the XTS, and I do like the rear design. Cannot comment on the interior until I see it close-up. What I don't like is the 308HP and V6 at only 17MPG. The MPG don't bother me but in lieu, give me more horses. A V8 390-400 HP would've been nice.


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CAPT,

What problems your brother had with his SC?

Granted, the only problems I've had is the map light, which will get fixed. I do have an extended warranty coverage that I can use at any time, I'm just trying to make the dealership fix what they didn't fix while in warranty.

CAPT Mike
12-19-12, 04:05 PM
Truth is that I didn't listen to his incessant tale of woes [I hope he doesn't read this :) ]cause if it wasn't his car, it was his bills, his business overhead, his employees, etc etc. What I did hear was that for 16 months he owned the JAG, the dealer had it in his shop for repairs for over 5 months total. It was just ridiculous; no lemon law applied because it wa always something new failing. BTW, he purchased the JAG as a "new" vehicle; it was actually used by the wife of the owner of the dealership for a couple of months and only had 3500 miles on the odometer and, as such. saved 15,000 bucks.

rjm
12-19-12, 06:26 PM
TheLegend,

Very true!

The big Cadillac dealer here had been horrible for the last 20+ years, yet the owner (3rd generation) just couldn't understand why GM yanked their franchise during the bankruptcy. Seriously! They had a horrible reputation for sales and service, both new and used.

No, the Jag dealer never repaired the cooled seats, and being in the South they're used alot more than the seat heaters (which are excellent).

You're absolutely correct about innovation. Didn't play with any of the systems before purchase, but its unbelievable how basic many of the systems are. No direct tire pressure monitoring, halogen high beams, basic trip computer, very limited radio data display (although the Bowers & Wilkins system is fantastic!). Once you own one, you realize Jag really emphasizes style over substance. Also my last 2 DTS ('06 & '08) had LED lighting throughout the interior (as does the XTS), not just for accent as Jag uses. I was disappointed to see the the XJ has incandescent bulbs for most of its interior lighting. Yes, that overhead console is a known issue and its a question of when, not if it begins to mysteriously turn itself off and on!

My biggest complaints with the XTS are engine and wheelbase. Cadillac did an excellent job on such a short wheelbase as interior leg room rivals the S550, 750, XJ, A8. And the interior materials, especially the Platinum, rival those as well even though Cadillac cites the E350 and A6 as the XTS main competitors. Engine is adequate, as it gets the job done but (to me anyway) it just doesn't feel like a Cadillac engine. Cadillac did a good job of hiding the cars plebeian origins with cabin width being the only indication. Its an excellent car, but (again, to me anyway) I don't know, it just doesn't feel like a Cadillac. I can't easily articulate why, maybe its knowing the engine is a V6 instead of all the V8 Cadillacs I've always driven. I'm at a loss for words to describe what it is I don't like...what is it the French say...a certain je ne sais quois. Maybe if they could stuff the Escalade engine under the hood!

CAPT Mike
12-19-12, 07:53 PM
My biggest complaints with the XTS are engine and wheelbase. Cadillac did an excellent job on such a short wheelbase as interior leg room rivals the S550, 750, XJ, A8. And the interior materials, especially the Platinum, rival those as well even though Cadillac cites the E350 and A6 as the XTS main competitors. Engine is adequate, as it gets the job done but (to me anyway) it just doesn't feel like a Cadillac engine. Cadillac did a good job of hiding the cars plebeian origins with cabin width being the only indication. Its an excellent car, but (again, to me anyway) I don't know, it just doesn't feel like a Cadillac. I can't easily articulate why, maybe its knowing the engine is a V6 instead of all the V8 Cadillacs I've always driven. I'm at a loss for words to describe what it is I don't like...what is it the French say...a certain je ne sais quois. Maybe if they could stuff the Escalade engine under the hood!

My Premium XTS4 is a beautiful vehicle. It has plenty of power and pizzaz; luxury without "spitting in your eye" MB/BMW/JAG style. I have owned many vehicles, but the only other Caddy that I owned was a 1977 Eldorado. Can't compare the two. The Eldo had "mountains" of power; sitting in it was like lounging in your living room; smooth as glass; AND averaged 24 mpg just like my new 6 cyl; did have a hard time with the 8 Track player :). We are almost at 2013; it's a new age. If you want the power of old. get a Vette (like I did). If you need more thrills, ride a Harley (like I do). After many GM and Ford products, Renault, Triumph, Lexus and BMW products, I really like my XTS.

TheLegend
12-19-12, 09:38 PM
RJM,

lol!!!


I think it's the fact that you know the engine is a V6. Unless it has some ummp, I'm going to have a real problem giving up the XF SC. I don't expect the XTS to match the SC far as power/speed, but something adequate will suffice. Ride comfort and just little bit of power will probably do. Especially if it has that "floating" feeling that some of the experts are saying. The SC hasn't gotten me in trouble yet, but it's probably more dangerous than I realize as I often due 90MPH+.

DG2
12-19-12, 11:31 PM
XTS is a stunningly modern American luxury car that drives far more nimble then it's size says it should. Interior comfort will blow your Jag away. That said if your looking fir screaming V8 performance might I suggest a test drive in a CTS V coupe. You'll be trading that Jag in ! :)

BreakThrough
12-20-12, 12:01 AM
I have the CTS v coupe and the xts-4. Best of both worlds. Both cars are distinctively different. The xts is a refined, attractive, technologically advanced premium brand that expresses Cadillac's history and unique American style.

DG2
12-20-12, 08:47 AM
I have the CTS v coupe and the xts-4. Best of both worlds. Both cars are distinctively different. The xts is a refined, attractive, technologically advanced premium brand that expresses Cadillac's history and unique American style.

Well said.

rjm
12-22-12, 11:01 AM
Guys,

The XTS is an excellent car, no doubt about it. If I were in the market for a $50k-$60k car, I'd buy a Platinum in a heartbeat as it makes everything else in that price bracket seem ancient by comparison (save the engine). There really isn't anything to criticise, unless you get out a magnifying glass and start nit picking! (Wish Cadillac had carried over the massaging front seats from the DTS, though.)

Being the "big" Cadillac now, I was hoping that it might compare a little more favorably to the S-Class, 7-Series, A8, XJL, as that class is my next car purchase.

Soon be time for an oil change on the Escalade, and already told my salesman I want an XTS Platinum as a loaner!

CAPT Mike
12-22-12, 03:44 PM
Guys,

The XTS is an excellent car, no doubt about it. If I were in the market for a $50k-$60k car, I'd buy a Platinum in a heartbeat as it makes everything else in that price bracket seem ancient by comparison (save the engine). There really isn't anything to criticise, unless you get out a magnifying glass and start nit picking! (Wish Cadillac had carried over the massaging front seats from the DTS, though.)

Being the "big" Cadillac now, I was hoping that it might compare a little more favorably to the S-Class, 7-Series, A8, XJL, as that class is my next car purchase.

Soon be time for an oil change on the Escalade, and already told my salesman I want an XTS Platinum as a loaner!

You will want one after you get to drive it. And you really can't compare a 7 series to the XTS [90-110,000 vs 56-60,000]; pricewise comparison, compare it to a 5 series.