: Transmission Hot in DIC display DTC P0218 & P0741



gunns
11-29-12, 10:49 PM
First things first – The Vehicle:
• ’04 Escalade Std. (not an ESV or EXT)
• All Wheel Drive
• 6.0 V8. Engine
• Pulling a toybox trailer over the same route we took last year with no problems. It ran perfectly.
• I changed the trans fluid and filter just before the trip

Driving home from Oklahoma on a long uphill grade the DIC suddenly displayed “Transmission Hot” (there was no chime like the “transmission hot idle” warning uses). The temperature was high but not yet in the red zone. I had been constantly scanning the gauges and the DIC as I was concerned about the gas mileage. So this warning had just been displayed and the temp must have gone up rather quickly.

I backed off the gas and monitored the trans temp gauge and watched as the temp slowly went down 10-15 degrees. As we approached a steeper grade the trans shifted down without warning to a much lower gear – possibly 2nd. The trans remained in this gear till we found a safe place to pull over off the road. The owner’s manual stated that the trans went into a “safe mode” because of the temp and to let the vehicle idle until the temp went below 265 and the trans would then return to its normal operation. I checked the fluid and it was frothy and reading high. When I changed the fluid before the trip I’d driven the vehicle for about 15 minutes to warm it up and the fluid level read in the hatched area on the stick. We waited until it went down to 245. If I took it easy the trans would operate normally but would shift late and the shifting was slow. If pressed to accelerate faster it would down shift abruptly to something like 2nd. And would do this down shift on any steep hills. Each time it down shifted I would slow down to about 25-30 mph to keep the revs down. Eventually we unhooked the trailer and drove the rest of the way home and the problem pretty much went away except for one really steep hill near our home.

I changed the fluid again. The fluid on the dipstick was again frothy. The trans operated better but had not returned to its normal functioning. Under normal demand it shifted pretty much normally but under heavy demand it shifted late and slowly. But if I backed off on the gas and allowed the RPMs to drop it completed the shift much faster. Once it completed the shift it held the gear with no apparent problem even when bearing down on the gas. It didn’t seem to be slipping. I hooked up my code reader and it came up with two codes (1) P0741 = Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Performance or Stuck Off and (2) P0218 = Transmission Fluid Overtemperature Condition.

After some research it seems that the TCC solenoid may need replacing. It appears that it is a simple process – drop the pan unplug the old solenoid and plug in the new one and replace the pan.

I was thinking of taking it to a shop and having them do a transmission flush to clear out any remaining fluid from the trip as well as what was left in the torque converter. Then I will replace the TCC solenoid.

My questions are:

• Does replacing the solenoid make sense?
• Why would the trans temp climb so quickly when it was working so well during the first 2,800 miles of the trip when climbing the same type of grades?
• Are there any other fixes that may need to be done?
• Am I on the right track?
• Has any one else had the same or similar problem?

My Chilton manual states that the 4L80 or 85 was used on the 6.0ltr engines and the 4L60 or 65 on the smaller V8 and V6s but the trans pan on my Escalade looks like the pans on the 4L60 or 65s. The window sticker (we purchased it new) states it has the Heavy Duty Trans but doesn’t specify which. The Service Parts Identification Label lists one of the many codes as M32. A check on the internet matched it up to a 4L60 Heavy Duty. Is that right for a code of M32? And if so what does the “Heavy Duty” imply?

Any help will be greatly appreciated as we are headed back east to welcome our son home from deployment in the near future - this time without the trailer.

the cadillac man
11-29-12, 11:29 PM
First things first – The Vehicle:
• ’04 Escalade Std. (not an ESV or EXT)
• All Wheel Drive
• 6.0 V8. Engine
• Pulling a toybox trailer over the same route we took last year with no problems. It ran perfectly.
• I changed the trans fluid and filter just before the trip

Driving home from Oklahoma on a long uphill grade the DIC suddenly displayed “Transmission Hot” (there was no chime like the “transmission hot idle” warning uses). The temperature was high but not yet in the red zone. I had been constantly scanning the gauges and the DIC as I was concerned about the gas mileage. So this warning had just been displayed and the temp must have gone up rather quickly.

I backed off the gas and monitored the trans temp gauge and watched as the temp slowly went down 10-15 degrees. As we approached a steeper grade the trans shifted down without warning to a much lower gear – possibly 2nd. The trans remained in this gear till we found a safe place to pull over off the road. The owner’s manual stated that the trans went into a “safe mode” because of the temp and to let the vehicle idle until the temp went below 265 and the trans would then return to its normal operation. I checked the fluid and it was frothy and reading high. When I changed the fluid before the trip I’d driven the vehicle for about 15 minutes to warm it up and the fluid level read in the hatched area on the stick. We waited until it went down to 245. If I took it easy the trans would operate normally but would shift late and the shifting was slow. If pressed to accelerate faster it would down shift abruptly to something like 2nd. And would do this down shift on any steep hills. Each time it down shifted I would slow down to about 25-30 mph to keep the revs down. Eventually we unhooked the trailer and drove the rest of the way home and the problem pretty much went away except for one really steep hill near our home.

I changed the fluid again. The fluid on the dipstick was again frothy. The trans operated better but had not returned to its normal functioning. Under normal demand it shifted pretty much normally but under heavy demand it shifted late and slowly. But if I backed off on the gas and allowed the RPMs to drop it completed the shift much faster. Once it completed the shift it held the gear with no apparent problem even when bearing down on the gas. It didn’t seem to be slipping. I hooked up my code reader and it came up with two codes (1) P0741 = Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Performance or Stuck Off and (2) P0218 = Transmission Fluid Overtemperature Condition.

After some research it seems that the TCC solenoid may need replacing. It appears that it is a simple process – drop the pan unplug the old solenoid and plug in the new one and replace the pan.

I was thinking of taking it to a shop and having them do a transmission flush to clear out any remaining fluid from the trip as well as what was left in the torque converter. Then I will replace the TCC solenoid.

My questions are:

• Does replacing the solenoid make sense?
• Why would the trans temp climb so quickly when it was working so well during the first 2,800 miles of the trip when climbing the same type of grades?
• Are there any other fixes that may need to be done?
• Am I on the right track?
• Has any one else had the same or similar problem?

My Chilton manual states that the 4L80 or 85 was used on the 6.0ltr engines and the 4L60 or 65 on the smaller V8 and V6s but the trans pan on my Escalade looks like the pans on the 4L60 or 65s. The window sticker (we purchased it new) states it has the Heavy Duty Trans but doesn’t specify which. The Service Parts Identification Label lists one of the many codes as M32. A check on the internet matched it up to a 4L60 Heavy Duty. Is that right for a code of M32? And if so what does the “Heavy Duty” imply?

Any help will be greatly appreciated as we are headed back east to welcome our son home from deployment in the near future - this time without the trailer.

Sounds like something isn't right but the tranny is a 4L65E heavy duty transmission mine has the rpo code for it
If the fluid is foamy that isn't right as it sounds as if there is a air pocket in there somewhere if the filter hasn't been replaced then it may be restricting the flow

6lbsofSound
11-30-12, 12:10 AM
Frothy transmission fluid is from 2 things either over filled or vent plug s blocked. Have a shop drain the fluid and change the TCC solenoid. The tranny doesn't sound like it slipping its definitely more of a TC issue. You are on the right path. Keep us posted

gunns
11-30-12, 01:18 AM
Cadillac man - If its a 4L65e then why the M32 code on the Service Parts Identification Label?

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Frothy transmission fluid is from 2 things either over filled or vent plug s blocked. Have a shop drain the fluid and change the TCC solenoid. The tranny doesn't sound like it slipping its definitely more of a TC issue. You are on the right path. Keep us posted

6lbsofSound
Glad to hear your thoughts. Cars were once fun to work on but that was before computers were put on them! I'll keep you posted!

the cadillac man
11-30-12, 01:19 AM
Cadillac man - If its a 4L65e then why the M32 code on the Service Parts Identification Label?

The rpo code is used for both I asked my uncle and he said there ain't much of a difference 4l60-e hd and the 4l65-e as they both got the same treatment(he worked in the transmission plant at gm)

gunns
11-30-12, 02:37 PM
The rpo code is used for both I asked my uncle and he said there ain't much of a difference 4l60-e hd and the 4l65-e as they both got the same treatment(he worked in the transmission plant at gm)

Since he worked in the trans plant at GM did he have any thoughts on the trans problems I'm having? Just curious. Thanks on the code info!! It's not the first time a service manual (Chiltons) was wrong. When servicing my Indian motorcycle's clutch the manual stated to torque the clutch basket bolts (I think they were 6mm) to something like 84 ftlbs. which I DIDN'T! Turned out it was supposed to be inch pounds.

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The rpo code is used for both I asked my uncle and he said there ain't much of a difference 4l60-e hd and the 4l65-e as they both got the same treatment(he worked in the transmission plant at gm)

Could you ask your dad if there are any markings on the outside of the trans that indicate which one it is - 4L60eHD or 4l65e?

6lbsofSound
11-30-12, 03:38 PM
You need the 4l65e for the escalade. The 4l60e was used from 96-2000. The difference between the two is that 65e has a 5 ring planetary gear and the 60e used a 4 ring set up. They are identical in size and shape and parts except for the planetary gears.

the cadillac man
11-30-12, 06:29 PM
You need the 4l65e for the escalade. The 4l60e was used from 96-2000. The difference between the two is that 65e has a 5 ring planetary gear and the 60e used a 4 ring set up. They are identical in size and shape and parts except for the planetary gears.

Yep that is the one I ran the codes lately to be sure before I mentioned but it looks as if 6lbsofsound beat me to it
I forgot the planetary rings being different(my uncle told me one time but I have since forgot I know his truck has the 4L60e because his truck is a 2000 model still don't explain why gm used the same rpo code for both though.

gunns
12-01-12, 01:36 PM
Since he worked in the trans plant at GM did he have any thoughts on the trans problems I'm having? Just curious. Thanks on the code info!! It's not the first time a service manual (Chiltons) was wrong. When servicing my Indian motorcycle's clutch the manual stated to torque the clutch basket bolts (I think they were 6mm) to something like 84 ftlbs. which I DIDN'T! Turned out it was supposed to be inch pounds.

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Could you ask your dad if there are any markings on the outside of the trans that indicate which one it is - 4L60eHD or 4l65e?


Aaaah Oooooops! I meant your "Uncle". Sorry about that!

the cadillac man
12-01-12, 03:20 PM
Aaaah Oooooops! I meant your "Uncle". Sorry about that!

Don't feel bad it happens to me also

gunns
12-24-12, 05:44 PM
Well, I'm back. I've been real busy lately. Turns out I needed a complete rebuild to the tune of $3200. I found out one thing. I'm sure glad I don't have one of the Cadi Sedans with their front wheel drive units. Rebuilds were around 5K. Well, it's only money right? I know you can't take it with you but I was planning on leaving some of it behind. In any event now it's fixed and has a warrantee to 2yrs that's recognized across the US. Just might come in handy!

Just want to thank all of you for your input!

the cadillac man
12-24-12, 08:27 PM
Well, I'm back. I've been real busy lately. Turns out I needed a complete rebuild to the tune of $3200. I found out one thing. I'm sure glad I don't have one of the Cadi Sedans with their front wheel drive units. Rebuilds were around 5K. Well, it's only money right? I know you can't take it with you but I was planning on leaving some of it behind. In any event now it's fixed and has a warrantee to 2yrs that's recognized across the US. Just might come in handy!

Just want to thank all of you for your input!

Glad to help merry Christmas and a happy new year

gunns
12-24-12, 11:57 PM
Glad to help merry Christmas and a happy new year

And a Very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you and your families!!!