: $45000 car with no GPS?!?!



joepop
11-25-12, 10:00 AM
I really want the new XTS but I'm not willing to go over about 46k or even higher than 519 in a lease. To be honest, it angers the hell out of me that Cadillac is so greedy that you are forced to pay 50k in order to get GPS.

Do you guys think they they will start offering GPS as a standard option in the next year?

It's really sad because I can go and get a very nice Hyundai Genesis or Volkswagen CC with everything for way less. 20k cars have GPS and leather. WTF. But I can wait a year if i have to, if they'll offer it.

thebigjimsho
11-25-12, 12:30 PM
Car and Driver had a sparsely equipped 5 series in their long term fleet. $57G. No nav.

Quit whining.

Ormond
11-25-12, 12:38 PM
Some people don't need navigation or want the CUE system. Cadillacs are supposed to be expensive.

marktanner
11-25-12, 01:42 PM
All Cadillacs have a form of GPS. It's called OnStar turn by turn directions. The service is free for the first year, then $100 more per year than the basic OnStar service. Works well, but no map, and no traffic integration. It's nearly hands-free, too.

rueben44
11-25-12, 02:53 PM
I have a question for you owners....once the phone is paired with the system and lets say you have the free google navigation system going on your phone does it send any of the driving alerts to your car? I am just curious about this.

CAPT Mike
11-25-12, 03:55 PM
Car and Driver had a sparsely equipped 5 series in their long term fleet. $57G. No nav.

Quit whining.

:yeah: I paid 1800 to BMW for NAV when I bought my 65K M3 convertible back in 2006. Let's see Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Toyota. Comparing transportation vs Luxury.

Ludacrisvp
11-25-12, 04:09 PM
Onstar ... What a joke I called a few weeks ago at 9:30 am on a wednesday it took 20 minutes for my call to be answered. I wanted them to run a diagnosis of a car issue but the issue I was having wasn't part of the monitored featureset.

thebigjimsho
11-25-12, 07:17 PM
:yeah: I paid 1800 to BMW for NAV when I bought my 65K M3 convertible back in 2006. Let's see Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Toyota. Comparing transportation vs Luxury.

Sure, you can get an Elantra with nav. You can also get a Genesis without.

b4z
11-25-12, 07:19 PM
I really want the new XTS but I'm not willing to go over about 46k or even higher than 519 in a lease. To be honest, it angers the hell out of me that Cadillac is so greedy that you are forced to pay 50k in order to get GPS.

Do you guys think they they will start offering GPS as a standard option in the next year?

It's really sad because I can go and get a very nice Hyundai Genesis or Volkswagen CC with everything for way less. 20k cars have GPS and leather. WTF. But I can wait a year if i have to, if they'll offer it.do the other luxury cars offer standard Mrc, HIDs, leather, fold down rear seat and 40" of rear legroom for $45k or $519 mo. With 0 down? NO THEY DO NOT!

truckinman
11-26-12, 07:47 AM
Any car now days can be had with the same features as any lux car. I mean hell, you can get a self park option on a ford focus just like what was originally offered in a 70k dollar Lexus. It's now offered in a 23k sub compact.

But what you've gotta ask yourself is the quality of which you want built around all these modern day gizmos. Do you want a bottom end ford (no disrespect to the current fords bc they actually are pretty nice) or do you want the quality of a premium luxury sedan.

Ludacrisvp
11-26-12, 08:10 AM
Navigation will likely not be standard on any cars for a few years still. Not because it couldn't be done but there are many people
that refuse to learn them or don't want to deal with what they believe to be an overly complex system. My parents refuse to buy
a car with Nav in them (they own 2 SRXs), there was a couple of SRXs that they passed on because of the Nav being in them.
Then there is also the idea of the more features in the car the more that can possibly go wrong / break. This mindset will need to
disappear before we start seeing cars that have these features included by default. They need to market the car to the least
sophisticated customer, which at this time this customer still includes those that don't want/like/need/care for Navigation.

Caddy Chris
11-29-12, 01:46 PM
Solution...buy an optima

HartfordGuy
12-05-12, 07:53 PM
The XTS gained some standard features that were optional on the base DTS and the price is lower too.

Not everyone wants a Nav system.

However It should be a stand alone option at a reasonable price. I'm sure Fleet (Livery) buyers would like to have the Nav in a base model.

hueterm
12-05-12, 09:37 PM
Why sell something that costs $100 to make for $1000, when you can sell several things that cost $250 combined for $5000...?

5.0 lsc
12-05-12, 10:05 PM
Isnt it on special for 499 now??

thebigjimsho
12-06-12, 12:02 AM
The XTS gained some standard features that were optional on the base DTS and the price is lower too.

Not everyone wants a Nav system.

However It should be a stand alone option at a reasonable price. I'm sure Fleet (Livery) buyers would like to have the Nav in a base model.

The fleet version will not be bare bones and will be decently equipped.

CDN XTS
12-10-12, 11:09 AM
My fully equipted 2003 STS has NAV. I was very disappointed as my much older Garmin Street Pilot III was much more acruate and had more info then the supplied one in the STS, even after having paid at lot of money some years afterwards to have the software updated. Yes it had voice control but that never worked correctly, Most of the time it was "dead" and Cadillac having replaced every part never was able to fix it. Anyway, I recently bought a new Garmin unit which I can switch from car to car including live-time map and traffic info update functions. What a difference. I just hope my yet to be delivered XTS Platinum will also have a more modern, updated and feature rich GPS to compete with that new Garmin one. Otherwise I will just use the Garmin one even in the new XTS Platinum. So, my advice, buy the one without the GPS option, staying within your budget and buy a stand-alone GPS. They cost a lot less than the build-in ones and based on my experience are way supperior. There are other makes that just Garmin

CAPT Mike
12-10-12, 11:22 AM
And when you trade the vehicle in, the value is decreased substantially. Besides, you are comparing a 10 year old version of Navigation tech to what is today. Each of us can do what they think is best, but , seriously, any comparisons of technology from even last year to this year is not realistic.

CDN XTS
12-10-12, 09:15 PM
That's why I was disappointed when comparing my 2001 Garmin unit to the newer 2003 in the STS and found the STS version lucking as to coverage and acuracy. As to options there were pros and cons. Totally agree with you that one can't compare the 2003 Cady version even with updated maps to a standalone version of today. Technology is just changing too fast for that. I was just trying to give the post originator another option, given he prefers not to spent more for a model with a GPS feature.

thebigjimsho
12-11-12, 12:00 AM
A dashtop GPS in a luxury car looks cheap and goofy...

CAPT Mike
12-11-12, 12:26 AM
I hear you. I guess I'm of the school that if you have to nickel and dime when you are looking at a car that is north of 45K that you really should reevaluate what kind of vehicle that you can afford. But maybe I'm just weird that way.

Ludacrisvp
12-11-12, 11:42 AM
I hear you. I guess I'm of the school that if you have to nickel and dime when you are looking at a car that is north of 45K that you really should reevaluate what kind of vehicle that you can afford. But maybe I'm just weird that way.

Yeah I guess if a $2k option that includes more than just Nav is enough to break the bank when you are shopping in the 45k market it's time to reevaluate what you can afford. Especially if it's what $16 per month per $1000 when financing or something like that. If a monthly payment that is $32 higher makes it unaffordable then how do you afford gas?

gohawks63
12-11-12, 09:10 PM
A dashtop GPS in a luxury car looks cheap and goofy...

Especially on a premium luxury car.

Engelman
12-13-12, 01:29 AM
I have had Onstar, and used it, on every GM vehicle, since it's inception with no problems. I believe it to be the best feature on any automobile. A friend of mine is alive today because of it. I don't know what your problem was, but I am sorry that you are so disappointed.




Onstar ... What a joke I called a few weeks ago at 9:30 am on a wednesday it took 20 minutes for my call to be answered. I wanted them to run a diagnosis of a car issue but the issue I was having wasn't part of the monitored featureset.

TulsaVic
12-13-12, 12:11 PM
I just bought a Garmin for use in my DTS. Yes, it's a bit messy with the external power cord, and I haven't found a good flat place to attach the suction cup mounting bracket. But there are advantages with this set-up vs OEM:
--Price, which includes lifetime map updates and a traffice alert feature.
--I can place it right on the steering column where it only partically blocks the speedometer but means it's almost directly within my field of vision while driving, as opposed over and down on the right. And there's no risk of glare.
--Best of all: I can sit in the house, in my recliner, with a nice glass of Port, and program my next day's travels.

As for value lost on trade-in, if you're a lease guy who changes cars every 2 or 3 years, maybe yes. But if you buy and keep the car 5+ years, having or not having an ancient GPS in the car at that stage is going to net/debit you about $5.00 on a trade-in.

concorso
12-13-12, 01:19 PM
Onstar ... What a joke I called a few weeks ago at 9:30 am on a wednesday it took 20 minutes for my call to be answered. I wanted them to run a diagnosis of a car issue but the issue I was having wasn't part of the monitored featureset.It wasnt an emergency. Im ok with that call taking longer then neccessary, especially if lines might have been busy.

----------


Navigation will likely not be standard on any cars for a few years still. Not because it couldn't be done but there are many people
that refuse to learn them or don't want to deal with what they believe to be an overly complex system. My parents refuse to buy
a car with Nav in them (they own 2 SRXs), there was a couple of SRXs that they passed on because of the Nav being in them.
Then there is also the idea of the more features in the car the more that can possibly go wrong / break. This mindset will need to
disappear before we start seeing cars that have these features included by default. They need to market the car to the least
sophisticated customer, which at this time this customer still includes those that don't want/like/need/care for Navigation.No, they dont need to market the car to the least sophisticated luxury buyers. They just need to have a level of ATS available for those buyers. Marketing a car to the least sophisticated is a surefire way to kill Cadillacs reputation. I can see the storyline now. Cadillac, once the Standard of the World, is now the brand for people with IQ's that equal the the number of seats in the vehicle. Theres a misconception here that all people buy as much as they can afford, and sometimes more. I suppose the housing market is a prime example of this. It doesnt ring true for everyone, tho. When I ordered my CTS, I optioned a $3000 package that added a grill, spoiler, sideskirts, exhaust tips and wheels. I didnt bother with the luxury package, NAV, or the upgraded stereo because the options offered no benefit for me. The aftermarket coilovers I have cost more then the NAV option. My parents dont bother with OEM NAVs, as they have a few classic vehicles and the most practical way to have NAV in every one of those vehicles is to have an aftermarket standalone unit with uptodate maps. So why spend thousands on NAV units for each of their modern cars just because they can?, when they can just move a single unit from car to car? Until big screens are standard in a car, standard NAV is unnecessary.

gohawks63
12-13-12, 05:32 PM
I just bought a Garmin for use in my DTS. Yes, it's a bit messy with the external power cord, and I haven't found a good flat place to attach the suction cup mounting bracket. But there are advantages with this set-up vs OEM:
--Price, which includes lifetime map updates and a traffice alert feature.
--I can place it right on the steering column where it only partically blocks the speedometer but means it's almost directly within my field of vision while driving, as opposed over and down on the right. And there's no risk of glare.
--Best of all: I can sit in the house, in my recliner, with a nice glass of Port, and program my next day's travels.

As for value lost on trade-in, if you're a lease guy who changes cars every 2 or 3 years, maybe yes. But if you buy and keep the car 5+ years, having or not having an ancient GPS in the car at that stage is going to net/debit you about $5.00 on a trade-in.

Earlier I said that all of my most recent cars have GPS. With one exception.

About four years ago we bought a CPO Mustang convertible as a fun summer car. We only put about 3k miles a year on it. It didn't come with GPS so we bought a Garmin Nuvi that we use primarily for that car.

My wife and I hate it.

Now maybe the newer ones are a bit quicker, but our experience is the OEM integrated units are faster to search for POIs, I like that they are integrated with Bluetooth so that when I find a POI and I want to call it, I can just tell it to do so, and with the most recent models, I LOVE that when I am not in the car I can search for a location through Google on my OnStar app and then have it send the destination to the in-dash NAV.

So to use the example mentioned above, I can also plan my next day's destinations while on my coach with a glass of wine while looking up the destinations and sending them to the car. Once I get in the car and start it up, the destinations are queued up waiting for me.

As for having an outdated unit, we too tend to keep our cars a bit longer. My last daily driver was an Acura that I had for six years, and I did do an update (for about $200) about halfway through that. We owned my wife's previous daily driver (2004 Toyota Land Cruiser) for nine years. In those nine years we updated the NAV once, and having an older system wasn't a big deal for us.

Essentially from a features perspective you run into the same thing with the portable units. Over time newer products come out with more features that you may want, upgrading to those comes at about the same price as updating the NAV.

I get though that the portable units now offer unlimited lifetime maps and that is attractive, but I personally love the integration.

I also get that in the end everyone has their priorities on what is important to them. That's why things navigation and sunroofs are options.

thebigjimsho
12-13-12, 07:52 PM
With Onstar, I can Google my destinations and send it to my nav. All comfy on my couch with a nice Riesling.


Nah, I'm just kidding. I'm not that much of a dink...

gohawks63
12-13-12, 08:11 PM
With Onstar, I can Google my destinations and send it to my nav. All comfy on my couch with a nice Riesling.


Nah, I'm just kidding. I'm not that much of a dink...

LOL. Riesling is too sweet, a good Sirah, or Pinot Noir works for me. Besides, never acquired the taste for port.

... and technically I don't qualify as a DINK. I have two kids (16 & 14) and since my wife doesn't work, we are a single income family. :)

CAPT Mike
12-14-12, 12:24 AM
A little Cognac or good sipping scotch works best :) Keeping a car past 4 years is an option, but if you can afford a luxury vehicle to start, trading in every couple of years is nice. In my case, I am fortunate that I can buy a luxury car and trade it every 3 or 4 years as I get bored with it and want new.

thebigjimsho
12-14-12, 12:40 AM
LOL. Riesling is too sweet, a good Sirah, or Pinot Noir works for me. Besides, never acquired the taste for port.

... and technically I don't qualify as a DINK. I have two kids (16 & 14) and since my wife doesn't work, we are a single income family. :)

Dink, no. Goober, maybe. Hahaha

gohawks63
12-14-12, 11:20 AM
Dink, no. Goober, maybe. Hahaha

Again, in case it was lost on you I was playing off of the previous poster who said he could program his GPS while sipping port.

thebigjimsho
12-14-12, 03:14 PM
Someone needs to chill and recognize harmless internet banter. Geesh...

gohawks63
12-14-12, 03:17 PM
Someone needs to chill and recognize harmless internet banter. Geesh...

I'm good. I even played along, but wasn't sure as it progressed.

All is good.

DTS man33
12-15-12, 04:06 PM
I remember my first GPS in my 2000 Deville DTS. It was Cadillac's first nav system and at the time it was awesome. I remember when I got the car in 2002 showing friends and co-workers the system and almost everyone said it was a waste of money and who needs that when you could just use a map. Now people can not live without having some sorta GPS in their car. The one I had on my 2000 was CD-ROM and had 12 discs that came with it for differnet areas of the US. Luxo car buyers now do not know how nice they have it. lol

But one thing I do think should of been included on the base XTS is at least heated seats. I mean at $45K who thinks of Cadillac not having heated seats. Even more so a supposed range topper like the XTS.

gohawks63
12-15-12, 04:39 PM
I remember my first GPS in my 2000 Deville DTS. It was Cadillac's first nav system and at the time it was awesome. I remember when I got the car in 2002 showing friends and co-workers the system and almost everyone said it was a waste of money and who needs that when you could just use a map. Now people can not live without having some sorta GPS in their car. The one I had on my 2000 was CD-ROM and had 12 discs that came with it for differnet areas of the US. Luxo car buyers now do not know how nice they have it. lol

But one thing I do think should of been included on the base XTS is at least heated seats. I mean at $45K who thinks of Cadillac not having heated seats. Even more so a supposed range topper like the XTS.

Agree on the heated seats. Should be a given

CAPT Mike
12-15-12, 07:31 PM
Agree on the heated seats. Should be a given

Buy a BMW and you'll have to fork over more $$ for heated seats. If you want it all - options that is - buy a Ford Taurus SHO for 45K. You want the luxury car, a Cadillac, BMW, MB? You've got to put out more $$ for additonal bells and whistles.

gohawks63
12-15-12, 09:17 PM
Buy a BMW and you'll have to fork over more $$ for heated seats. If you want it all - options that is - buy a Ford Taurus SHO for 45K. You want the luxury car, a Cadillac, BMW, MB? You've got to put out more $$ for additonal bells and whistles.

Yeah, I know . My wife's daily driver is a 2011 BMW X5. Ours has the premium, comfort and tech package that includes all of the goodies, but the base model doesn't include heated seats or even Homelink for that matter (which is inexcusable IMO).

CAPT Mike
12-16-12, 12:49 PM
Yeah, I know . My wife's daily driver is a 2011 BMW X5. Ours has the premium, comfort and tech package that includes all of the goodies, but the base model doesn't include heated seats or even Homelink for that matter (which is inexcusable IMO).

That's what I traded in on my Premium XTS4. More bells and whistles and 10k less on MSRP. Smoother ride and more luxurious.

gohawks63
12-16-12, 03:04 PM
That's what I traded in on my Premium XTS4. More bells and whistles and 10k less on MSRP. Smoother ride and more luxurious.

To be fair though, they are two entirely different vehicles. The X5 is a performance oriented SUV, and the other is an luxury cruiser.

CAPT Mike
12-17-12, 01:16 AM
To be fair though, they are two entirely different vehicles. The X5 is a performance oriented SUV, and the other is an luxury cruiser.
Yeah, I know; BMW calls them SAV not SUV. Unless you have the V8 version (I had the 35d version), performance SUV is an oxymoron. Both vehicles are AWD, HP is about the same (as my 35d), techno laden, about the same. Now the Porsche SUV is a performance SUV as one would expect for 95K.

gohawks63
12-17-12, 09:37 AM
Yeah, I know; BMW calls them SAV not SUV. Unless you have the V8 version (I had the 35d version), performance SUV is an oxymoron. Both vehicles are AWD, HP is about the same (as my 35d), techno laden, about the same. Now the Porsche SUV is a performance SUV as one would expect for 95K.

I don't know abut that. Maybe it's comparable between the 35d and the XTS. I have the turbo inline 6 gasoline version of the X5. That thing scoots and corners flat and tight. HP may be the same, but seat of the pants feels like it may even be quicker than my CTS and my CTS has 318 HP. BMW is notorious for understating their HP numbers.

Ludacrisvp
12-17-12, 11:02 AM
BMW is notorious for understating their HP numbers.
Perhaps everyone else overstates it? :)
It's likely just that BMW has more of a flattened out power band that gives more even power throughout the rpm range making you feel like its got more power than it's peak power implies.

CAPT Mike
12-17-12, 12:17 PM
Or, from an ex-BMW owner (1984 318i, 2003 330xi,2006 530xi, 2006 M3, 2011 X5 35d), you believe the BMW hype about being a driver's car. From my ownership experience the M3 was a let down, power wise; the X5 with the turbo diesel was quite torquey and had some power even more so that the X5 with the turbo 6 that you refer to. BTW, the seat of your pants effect is only valid if it compelled you to change your underwear following a run:histeric:

gohawks63
12-17-12, 03:06 PM
Or, from an ex-BMW owner (1984 318i, 2003 330xi,2006 530xi, 2006 M3, 2011 X5 35d), you believe the BMW hype about being a driver's car. From my ownership experience the M3 was a let down, power wise; the X5 with the turbo diesel was quite torquey and had some power even more so that the X5 with the turbo 6 that you refer to. BTW, the seat of your pants effect is only valid if it compelled you to change your underwear following a run:histeric:

Well this is my first BMW, and didn't start out with the intent of buying one. I believe no one's hype and rely on my personal experiences, and for the time i have owned it, it feels sportier than any SUV I have owned (and i have owned plenty). It was a replacement for my wife's 2004 Toyota Land Cruiser that served us faithfully for 160k miles. We planned to downsize and my wife liked the looks of the X5. Compared with the Land Cruiser which had no "sport" about it, unless you took it off road, the X5 is definitely more fun to drive, again as far as SUVs go. Having said that, the Germans definitely have a unique way of designing their vehicles that takes some getting used to.

I bought it as a CPO and really don't plan to own it much beyond when the CPO warranty runs out. I have no illusions that it will give me the same level of reliability the Land Cruiser did. It's been trouble free for three months I have owned it, but just like sport and Land Cruiser didn't got together, neither does reliability and BMW go together either.

----------



Perhaps everyone else overstates it? :)
It's likely just that BMW has more of a flattened out power band that gives more even power throughout the rpm range making you feel like its got more power than it's peak power implies.

That is a good point. The power does feel more immediate, and there is virtually no lag from the turbo.

CAPT Mike
12-17-12, 04:56 PM
Toyota to BMW. Your seat of the pants comparison is accurate:) As far as reliability, the probability of problems is the luck of the draw. The biggest problem is in the cost of service. Check your book and you will find major services at 25K miles. If you are beyond your service warranty, you can expect to pay $750-1000 dependent on where you live. That was my main concern having rebuilt the 318i for my son back in 2000 and knowing how much parts cost, special tools, etc. and that was an easy car to work on with minimal electronics. I wouldn't and didn't attempt to do work on the newer BMW's and hence when the fourth year of warranty was closing in, I was deciding on which new vehicle to buy. The X5 was nice looking but it was actually less roomy compared to my '06 530xi with the exception that the second row of seats folded down. I used it once 'cause I have my old trusty F-150 for hauling stuff. And last but not least, I bought the diesel to try to be green. I averaged 25 mpg. Shortly after I bought it, diesel prices went soaring and around where I live in PA, diesel averages 65 cents more per gallon than regular, making the Cadillac "greener" to my wallet.

gohawks63
12-17-12, 05:36 PM
Toyota to BMW. Your seat of the pants comparison is accurate:) As far as reliability, the probability of problems is the luck of the draw. The biggest problem is in the cost of service. Check your book and you will find major services at 25K miles. If you are beyond your service warranty, you can expect to pay $750-1000 dependent on where you live. That was my main concern having rebuilt the 318i for my son back in 2000 and knowing how much parts cost, special tools, etc. and that was an easy car to work on with minimal electronics. I wouldn't and didn't attempt to do work on the newer BMW's and hence when the fourth year of warranty was closing in, I was deciding on which new vehicle to buy. The X5 was nice looking but it was actually less roomy compared to my '06 530xi with the exception that the second row of seats folded down. I used it once 'cause I have my old trusty F-150 for hauling stuff. And last but not least, I bought the diesel to try to be green. I averaged 25 mpg. Shortly after I bought it, diesel prices went soaring and around where I live in PA, diesel averages 65 cents more per gallon than regular, making the Cadillac "greener" to my wallet.

I hear you on the cost of service. I still have 16k miles on the service warranty and I am undecided if I should purchase the extension of that. I think I was quoted a little over $2k when I bought it, and given when the car would be due for brakes and other service, it was a toss-up on whether I would get my money's worth. For example, Front brake service was recently performed and according to the computer, the rears are due before the service warranty expires. Given the extended oil change intervals, and when the computer is calling for certain service, when I did the math, it looked like at best I would break even.

CAPT Mike
12-17-12, 09:42 PM
The bigger question is whether you are going to keep the X5 past 16K miles. I did the math also for all my BMW's and you will come up on the short end of the stick. I did not go for the extension because 4 years is more than I can stand one vehicle (except my Vette and my Harley) :) If you want to keep it, haggle with the dealer on the price. You should be able to get it for around 15-1650 for the extended warranty. Remember, it's oil changes, brake fluid changes, major checkup at 25 and 50K miles (alone will cost around 1500 for both), rear brakes, transmission service, cooling system service, fuel/air/cabin filters, and if any electrical gremlin pops up, well you get the idea.

gohawks63
12-17-12, 10:48 PM
The bigger question is whether you are going to keep the X5 past 16K miles. I did the math also for all my BMW's and you will come up on the short end of the stick. I did not go for the extension because 4 years is more than I can stand one vehicle (except my Vette and my Harley) :) If you want to keep it, haggle with the dealer on the price. You should be able to get it for around 15-1650 for the extended warranty. Remember, it's oil changes, brake fluid changes, major checkup at 25 and 50K miles (alone will cost around 1500 for both), rear brakes, transmission service, cooling system service, fuel/air/cabin filters, and if any electrical gremlin pops up, well you get the idea.

I have a CPO warranty for the next 4 years or 100k miles so I'm covered on repairs. It's the maintenance contract I'm talking about.

Well I have a little over a year or 16k miles to think about that.

Sorry for hijacking this thread

RicktheRealtor
12-18-12, 02:07 PM
never mind no gps on a $45K car. They don't even give you a spare tire anymore!

CAPT Mike
12-18-12, 04:53 PM
I have a CPO warranty for the next 4 years or 100k miles so I'm covered on repairs. It's the maintenance contract I'm talking about.

Well I have a little over a year or 16k miles to think about that.

Sorry for hijacking this thread

I was referring to maintenance not what's warranted on your CPO contract. BTW, if you join the BMW Car Club of America, the gurus/tech advisers will strongly recommend that if you plan to keep the BMW vehicle that you change the oil more frequently than every 15000 amongst other items. Again, it is up to you regarding how long you intend to keep the vehicle.

----------


never mind no gps on a $45K car. They don't even give you a spare tire anymore!

When was the last time you had a flat tire? Why carry weight (tire + jack) around for nothing? Besides, Cadillac gives you 5 or 6 years of emergency service (gas, flats, lockout, etc) as well as the compressor and "Slime." BTW, no spare is not new. The 2006 BMW M3, that I bought new, came with std/non-runflats tires - no spare - just the German version of a compressor and (I guess)"German Slime." Did I forget to mention that the car cost $66K?

neuronbob
12-18-12, 10:25 PM
^^^^
Yeah, but with a spare tire, a flat is a 15-minute inconvenience. Without....the last time I had a flat, I had to wait two hours for a tow in a snowstorm.

No, thanks. GPS I can live without in a luxury car, but this tendency toward no spares is where I draw the line.

gohawks63
12-18-12, 11:15 PM
^^^^
Yeah, but with a spare tire, a flat is a 15-minute inconvenience. Without....the last time I had a flat, I had to wait two hours for a tow in a snowstorm.

No, thanks. GPS I can live without in a luxury car, but this tendency toward no spares is where I draw the line.

The fix-a-flat is worthless if you have a blowout. I have been contemplating buying a spare for my coupe. I would prefer run flats instead. My preference would be spare > RFTs > compressor with fix-a-flat.

thebigjimsho
12-19-12, 08:54 AM
Blowouts are non-existent with today's high quality tires. If you buy no name specials at your low cost tire store, maybe.

As for nails in tires, yes that happens. A Hankook on my V is patched. As is a Michelin on my Town Car.

So I keep a tire plug kit in my V. Anyone can do this, with little practice. If the tire is in the front, you don't need to even to remove it.

Ludacrisvp
12-19-12, 10:28 AM
If you buy no name specials at your low cost tire store, maybe.

I don't think I'll ever understand why people always skimp out on the what are basically the two most important safety features of the car. Being brakes and tires. Get a quality set of both and you may end up saving lives. Quality tires and brakes are always cheaper than dealing with accidents and possible life long injury or death.
I also believe all cars should run LED brake lights as they turn on faster thereby increasing the amount of time the person behind you has to react to your actions (or you to the person in front of you). The .5 second difference in time can be like 60 feet of additional warning time. That can mean the difference between colliding and not.

thebigjimsho
12-19-12, 12:15 PM
I don't think I'll ever understand why people always skimp out on the what are basically the two most important safety features of the car. Being brakes and tires. Get a quality set of both and you may end up saving lives. Quality tires and brakes are always cheaper than dealing with accidents and possible life long injury or death.
I also believe all cars should run LED brake lights as they turn on faster thereby increasing the amount of time the person behind you has to react to your actions (or you to the person in front of you). The .5 second difference in time can be like 60 feet of additional warning time. That can mean the difference between colliding and not.I'm running Hankook evos on my V. In part because so many people were raving about them. They are excellent tires, but they aren't as good as the pricier Michelins. That, to me, is about the cheapest I'll ever get in buying tires. And that's still $800/set. When I go to Town Fair Tire or ebay and see these uber-cheap tires, I cringe...

gohawks63
12-19-12, 01:29 PM
I'm running Hankook evos on my V. In part because so many people were raving about them. They are excellent tires, but they aren't as good as the pricier Michelins. That, to me, is about the cheapest I'll ever get in buying tires. And that's still $800/set. When I go to Town Fair Tire or ebay and see these uber-cheap tires, I cringe...

I agree on not skimping on tires? just replaced the tires on my son's 2009 Mazda 6 Grand Touring S (V6). That car comes with 18" Michelin HX MXM4 (same as what is on my CTS coupe), except they aren't staggered on the Mazda. The Michelins cost me $1,400 mounted, balanced, tax and disposal with the road hazard warranty, minus the $70 rebated from Discount Tire. They were the most expensive tire and I contemplated less expensive, but the Michelins are what came with the car.

As for the tire repair kit, I have done that before, but recently my wife had a flat on her truck. My son went out there with a portable compressor to try to get enough air in the tire to get to a place to repair it. It wouldn't hold air and what punctured it was like a hollow tube so the air would go right through it. The fix-a-flat stuff wouldn't have worked for her and I don't see my wife repairing the tire on the side of the road. She ended up calling AAA to replace the tire (the vehicle was a 2004 Toyota Land Cruiser with oversized tires). That's why I'm glad her current car has run-flats.

CAPT Mike
12-19-12, 04:58 PM
As for the tire repair kit, I have done that before, but recently my wife had a flat on her truck. My son went out there with a portable compressor to try to get enough air in the tire to get to a place to repair it. It wouldn't hold air and what punctured it was like a hollow tube so the air would go right through it. The fix-a-flat stuff wouldn't have worked for her and I don't see my wife repairing the tire on the side of the road. She ended up calling AAA to replace the tire (the vehicle was a 2004 Toyota Land Cruiser with oversized tires). That's why I'm glad her current car has run-flats.

If a tube punctured the tire and it was over 3/8" in diameter, it's unlikely that anything would help. What would have saved time would have been if your son looked at the tire. Since he came out to your wife, he could have brought a jack to lift the vehicle and rotate the tire. If he saw a "smaller" tube size and if he had a plugger, he could have plugged the tire, "SLIMED" with the green slime meant for tubeless tires and pumped her up. You may still have needed a new tire, but your wife would have been able to roll away. Runflats have a very stiff sidewall and cost more - ride suffers. I've been driving for 50 years and I have had one flat from a vandal's ice pick while parked and another from a nail that resulted in a slow leak that I plugged and ran over 30000 more miles on that tire. I'll play the odds and when I get new tires, put the difference into a higher quality tire like Michelin, etc.

gohawks63
12-19-12, 05:11 PM
If a tube punctured the tire and it was over 3/8" in diameter, it's unlikely that anything would help. What would have saved time would have been if your son looked at the tire. Since he came out to your wife, he could have brought a jack to lift the vehicle and rotate the tire. If he saw a "smaller" tube size and if he had a plugger, he could have plugged the tire, "SLIMED" with the green slime meant for tubeless tires and pumped her up. You may still have needed a new tire, but your wife would have been able to roll away. Runflats have a very stiff sidewall and cost more - ride suffers. I've been driving for 50 years and I have had one flat from a vandal's ice pick while parked and another from a nail that resulted in a slow leak that I plugged and ran over 30000 more miles on that tire. I'll play the odds and when I get new tires, put the difference into a higher quality tire like Michelin, etc.

My son was barely 16 at the time, he was just learning how to drive much less be able to change a flat on that beast. hecould have brought a floor jack, but the Land Cruiser is a 3 ton vehicle. I changed a flat on it once using the standard jack and it was a bit unnerving. The tires are also pretty big and heavy. The tire was able to be saved with a patch from the inside.

My wife now has BMW X5 with run flats. I had read people complaining of the ride, but honestly it's really not that bad. Replacement cost is another. Thing, but as I posted earlier, I am used to pricey tires.

CAPT Mike
12-19-12, 06:38 PM
My son was barely 16 at the time, he was just learning how to drive much less be able to change a flat on that beast. hecould have brought a floor jack, but the Land Cruiser is a 3 ton vehicle. I changed a flat on it once using the standard jack and it was a bit unnerving. The tires are also pretty big and heavy. The tire was able to be saved with a patch from the inside.

My wife now has BMW X5 with run flats. I had read people complaining of the ride, but honestly it's really not that bad. Replacement cost is another. Thing, but as I posted earlier, I am used to pricey tires.

My "kids" are 30, 37, 40 and 41, but I remember when they were 16. Helpless. But that's another story. The X5 I traded had runflats and the ride is diffferent with std tires but not horrendous as some have complained about. The difference, for example, for Michelin Sport A/S vs RunFlat for a set of four is only 4o to 60 dollars so it's pricey either way you go.

gohawks63
12-20-12, 12:02 AM
My "kids" are 30, 37, 40 and 41, but I remember when they were 16. Helpless. But that's another story.

You understand then. So there is hope? :)

CAPT Mike
12-20-12, 12:28 AM
You understand then. So there is hope? :)

Maybe ;) . But I have to warn you, you will lose your hair and develop a taste for scotch and cognac on alternating days.:D

gohawks63
12-20-12, 12:39 AM
Maybe ;) . But I have to warn you, you will lose your hair and develop a taste for scotch and cognac on alternating days.:D

They're really good kids, but I'm already there with the alcohol.

CAPT Mike
12-20-12, 09:00 AM
They're really good kids, but I'm already there with the alcohol.

Yes, they really are good kids. Wait till they are older, have their own kids and come to your house for a festive occasion. You are sitting around and having a drink with the "kids" and out comes the tales of truth of what they did as teenagers. As a military person, there were times that I was not at home and the little darlings would take my Vette or Harley out for a ride or a car I just restored (70 1/2 Camaro, 64 Impala SS,etc) to show off and occasionally cause a little damage to my toys and the scrambling to get it fixed before the DADA came home. Or the time they almost burned down the barn when we were stationed in CA. Oh the list goes on. I can laugh at it all now. Good luck, my friend :)

gohawks63
12-20-12, 09:18 PM
Yes, they really are good kids. Wait till they are older, have their own kids and come to your house for a festive occasion. You are sitting around and having a drink with the "kids" and out comes the tales of truth of what they did as teenagers. As a military person, there were times that I was not at home and the little darlings would take my Vette or Harley out for a ride or a car I just restored (70 1/2 Camaro, 64 Impala SS,etc) to show off and occasionally cause a little damage to my toys and the scrambling to get it fixed before the DADA came home. Or the time they almost burned down the barn when we were stationed in CA. Oh the list goes on. I can laugh at it all now. Good luck, my friend :)

Oh I am sure. My parents were for the "old country" and pretty strict and we still found out ways to "do stuff" and we too have shared stories with my parents about the things we did. Appreciate it. :)

thebigjimsho
12-21-12, 12:06 AM
Old people takin' over this thread!

CAPT Mike
12-21-12, 12:22 AM
Old people takin' over this thread!

Hey Little Jimmy - Who you calling "old?" :devilheh::xlol:

thebigjimsho
12-21-12, 12:46 AM
Anyone older than me...

CAPT Mike
12-21-12, 11:20 AM
ASSUming you are under 66, I guess you can be referred to as a whippersnapper?:yup::yup::D

gohawks63
12-21-12, 01:07 PM
ASSUming you are under 66, I guess you can be referred to as a whippersnapper?:yup::yup::D

Being 49, I guess that includes me too.

thebigjimsho
12-21-12, 01:09 PM
I'll be turning 40 next year. But I've been told I look 25. So I've got that going for me, which is nice...

CAPT Mike
12-21-12, 01:39 PM
Hey guys; love the banter and the info passed on this forum, the Corvette forum and the Harley forum. Never too old to learn from you "whippersnappers":D:lildevil: and maybe, occasionally, you get a little help from the old man.:cheers:

gohawks63
12-21-12, 01:48 PM
Hey guys; love the banter and the info passed on this forum, the Corvette forum and the Harley forum. Never too old to learn from you "whippersnappers":D:lildevil: and maybe, occasionally, you get a little help from the old man.:cheers:

As the saying goes....

"Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill"