: 94 Eldo Northstar No Spark - Why?



startacus
12-20-04, 04:23 AM
Hello. What would cause no spark whatsoever in a 1994 Eldorado ETC Northstar? I've changed the coil pack and module. Thanks

growe3
12-20-04, 08:33 AM
Need more information to help out here.

What error codes are stored?

What happened just before the car quit running? I.e.,:
Was the oil being changed?
Were you working on something in the engine compartment?
Did you just install an aftermarket "gizmo" and tap into the electrical system?

-George

startacus
12-20-04, 01:31 PM
Need more information to help out here.

What error codes are stored?

What happened just before the car quit running? I.e.,:
Was the oil being changed?
Were you working on something in the engine compartment?
Did you just install an aftermarket "gizmo" and tap into the electrical system?

-George

George,

I changed the alternator right before it happened. My sister was driving the car so I don't know if the oil was being changed or not. The car had sat up at her house for about a month before I changed the alternator. The car seemed to run okay after that and I drove it about 25 miles before it quit on me. It was difficult to get it restarted but it did which allowed me to drive it about a block before it quit again. That time - for good! Luckily I was able to drag it back to my house but it has not started since.

Upon starting the car it just cranks and cranks. It did backfire once or twice but outside of that no other life from the car. Since then I've had the compter changed, the coil pack and coils changed, and one of the two crank sensors. But I am not getting ANY spark!!! Which I find very strange.

Also, I did have some problems with the car idling erratically and cutting off without restarting but that problem was fixed by an electrical shop earlier in the summer. The only reason why I mention this is becase the new shop found wires going to the coil pack module on top of the exhaust where they were melting. They fixed those wires.

I just wished I could get it to start. At least show life that it would eventually start. I am willing to try anything.

Any thoughts?

BeelzeBob
12-20-04, 08:38 PM
I think I would check for 12 volts at the coil pack....

Also, maybe recheck those repaired/melted wires to the coil pack....

Eldobroken
12-21-04, 10:56 AM
Hello. What would cause no spark whatsoever in a 1994 Eldorado ETC Northstar? I've changed the coil pack and module. Thanks
Yep I would say the same thing the coil packs should first off all ohm out the same then make sure the 12V is there in the first place. I know there is a fuse or mabye it was a breaker but I do not remember where.

startacus
12-28-04, 01:18 AM
Okay Bbobynski & Eldobroken, I've verified that there is NO 12 volts at the coil pack! This shop the car is at supposedly checked that and had me replace the coil pack and the computer.

Should I rewire? I've got experience with automotive wiring but do not know where these wires go.. I do know these wires have been rewired before because the wires on the left hand side are all white (not factory) and were supposedly laying on the exhaust pipes (where I guess they could've melted).

What's the easiest thing to do to supply power to the coil pack to see if it will fire?

Thanks in advance...

oldgamer
12-28-04, 03:13 PM
Just to be sure if it'll start you can supply 12V easilly.
All 4 coils have one connector common (it should be +12V) and other connectors connected to the PCM. If you have ohm meter or tester it's easy to check. Set tester to check diods (it should beep if you do contact tester's wires between themself) or if you have the ohm meter set it to measure the lowest resistance. Then find common connectors (it should beep when you check resistance between them or show 0 ohm). After that just connect this connector (of any of coils) to the +12V on your battery and start the engine.
Be very carefull, because if you connect +12V to the wrong connector (connected with PCM) you'll BURN PCM after turning the key on.
If it starts then you should just find a fuse or wharever the reason. And its better to check fuses in a beginning of course.

startacus
12-28-04, 03:22 PM
Odgamer - I've checked everywhere for this fuse and cannot find it. I've checked all the fuses in the trunk and the ones in the engine compartment. I've even checked maxi fuses. Something has to not be right because there's no 12 volts!

I wished I knew just which wire it was to connect the 12 volts to. Would make diagnosing it much easier..

oldgamer
12-28-04, 03:32 PM
Odgamer - I've checked everywhere for this fuse and cannot find it. I've checked all the fuses in the trunk and the ones in the engine compartment. I've even checked maxi fuses. Something has to not be right because there's no 12 volts!

I don't have the diagram in front of me, just after I'll got home...
Try to follow the wires and may be it's possible to find out where the fuse is.
Check the coils wires carefully, cause fuse not just burn without reason.
If I was you I take the bulb for 4-15W with two wires and connect one wire to +12V on a battery and other to common wire on a coils. If light goes bright I'll check for close between +12V coil connector and ground.

startacus
12-28-04, 06:13 PM
That's a good idea. I'll do that tomorrow. If you find that schematic of where those coil wires run please let me know. Thanks a bunch.

oldgamer
12-29-04, 10:08 AM
It looks like all four coils connected to ICM (ignition control module) and ICM connector C3 connected to the fuse A13 (20AMP) in engine compartment fuse blok with pink wire. It reads "hot in run, bulb test or start", so I think 12V on that fuse should be just if you start or run engine, not if you just turn key on. Check if ICM connector is OK. And if you got +12V on ICM connector C3 it should be on coils too.

startacus
01-09-05, 01:08 AM
HI, I found the wire, hit it with 12 volts, and the car fired up!! I really appreciate the advice. I was able to get the car out of that shop and to my house. But not before having to shell out $200 for the shop's diagnostic and labor time! What gives?!

Anyways, now things are strange with it. Since firing it up like that, I hotwired it to the fuse block so that it would work like that all of the time. Well it doesn't. Sometimes it fires up and sometimes it doesn't. But when it is wired directly to the battery it fires up all of the time but when the ignition is off it doesn't cut off until the wire is disconnected. Most notably, now the car starts and runs without having it jumped at all. But I did keep the wire there just in case it does it again. Anyone know what this problem might be?

Also, now, driving down the road, the car feels like the rubber band man! At any speed, the car lunges forward and back while driving constant speed. Full acceleration is no problems but when you steady the gas it starts back again. The car acts better at higher speeds than highway speed or lower. At idle, the car will idle okay for about 10-15 seconds, then die down like its going to cut off but the computer seems to give the car gas which takes the idle up for a few seconds before leveling off. Many times, when I put the car into drive it will cut off. Also at idle at a stoplight it will sometimes die down and just cut off alltogether, which requires restarting. And sometimes the car is hard to start, taking two-three times to start.

The codes pulled from the engine at idle are as follows:

C=Current H=History

PO34C PO47H PO52H PO53H PO59C PO65C

PO95H PO107H PO109H PO117H PO137H

IO32H IO52H AO10C AO47C SO33C SO83H

Hope this helps. If anyone can help I'd surely appreciate it. Thanks a bunch!

oldgamer
01-09-05, 03:04 PM
Now you know that problem was 12V. You gotta find out why it's not there, this is it.

zonie77
01-09-05, 08:11 PM
Not sure if there is any commonality here but a friend of mine spent months hunting a similar problem on a newer Camaro. It turned out to be a bad ignition switch.

dkozloski
01-09-05, 09:06 PM
It seems to me that at one time, if the ignition switch was off, not only was power disconnected from the ignition but the circuit was grounded through the switch. If the switch was off and someone came along and tried to jog the starter with one of those pushbuttons or a screwdriver to the starter contacts, the contacts in the starter solenoid that bypass the ignition ballast resistor to the ignition circut would burn up the contacts in the ignition switch.

startacus
01-11-05, 02:40 PM
But would a faulty ignition explain the sporatic performance problems I've been having? I mean I cant even get down the street before thinking I'm riding on a camel!

oldgamer
01-11-05, 03:21 PM
I think it's possible if it has intermittent contact problem in ignition switch.
Again, now you should to find out what the cause absence of 12V. I just have no electrical shceme.

startacus
01-26-05, 12:19 AM
Hi Guys,

Well since I was last here and the car started, I have not been able to find anything wrong. I was able to disconnect the jumper wire and the car starts up fine. However, today I was driving the car and I got something strange. The PCM said 'Switch Problem' when I started it. This stayed on throughout the day. Anyone had this problem?

Also, the car does drive better however it still acts funny. At idle it idles okay, occasionally dying down to almost cut off when the car overcompensates, revs up and returns to a normal idle. Occasionally it will stall - and that seems to happen moreso when stopping at stop lights. When I let off the brakes, if I dont ease on the gas gently the car will act like it's going to stall - then it will go. When driving the car it seems to be jerking back and forth a few hundred RPMs as long as I am on the throttle. This is as best as I can describe what's happening.

I did clear the codes and when I did the car really acted crazy! About 2 minutes into it I turned the car off for 5 minutes and upon restart it went back to the problems mentioned above. Code that popped up was PO34 - and I've noticed now that if PO34 is not showing up the car will not run well at all - almost like its about to die -automatically gassing itself several times a second and automatically sputtering! I figure its going back into some sort of safety mode when PO34 shows up.

growe3
01-26-05, 07:54 AM
Hi Guys,

Well since I was last here and the car started, I have not been able to find anything wrong. I was able to disconnect the jumper wire and the car starts up fine. However, today I was driving the car and I got something strange. The PCM said 'Switch Problem' when I started it. This stayed on throughout the day. Anyone had this problem?

Also, the car does drive better however it still acts funny. At idle it idles okay, occasionally dying down to almost cut off when the car overcompensates, revs up and returns to a normal idle. Occasionally it will stall - and that seems to happen moreso when stopping at stop lights. When I let off the brakes, if I dont ease on the gas gently the car will act like it's going to stall - then it will go. When driving the car it seems to be jerking back and forth a few hundred RPMs as long as I am on the throttle. This is as best as I can describe what's happening.

I did clear the codes and when I did the car really acted crazy! About 2 minutes into it I turned the car off for 5 minutes and upon restart it went back to the problems mentioned above. Code that popped up was PO34 - and I've noticed now that if PO34 is not showing up the car will not run well at all - almost like its about to die -automatically gassing itself several times a second and automatically sputtering! I figure its going back into some sort of safety mode when PO34 shows up.


The P034 is a MAP error(signal to high). While the MAP may be going bad or poor connection I would reccommend doing the following to try and fix the surging/sputtering issue. It may also fix the MAP error.

Perform the Throttle Position Sensor/Idle Learn Procedure.

I have attached an MS Word file that describes how to do this. It is not hard to do, but you must follow all of the steps as outlined. The procedure is all done from the drivers seat, no tools.

Post back later and let me know if this suggestion helped you.

-George

oldgamer
01-26-05, 09:52 AM
startacus: Are you still running with temperary wire 12V to ICM? You should find the cause of absence of 12V first, then try anything else.

startacus
01-26-05, 02:04 PM
Oldgamer I disconnected the temp 12 volts about a week ago and haven't needed to do it since. Strange?

Grow3 - will try this later on this afternoon and post back.

Thanks to both of you for all of your insight and help! Hope this helps..

oldgamer
01-26-05, 03:01 PM
I don't think it's strange. It's very possible that problem with 12V is intermittent (obviously is) and that can be a cause all these simptoms. Who knows? The contact somewhere may be bad for a split of a second or couple second (and that is what you call engine dying). Do this: connect the voltmeter or a small 12V lamp to the +12V where you connected wire before. When engine goes crazy check the voltmeter/lamp. It should be stable 12V. I know, it's possible the problem somewhere else, but it worth to try.