: Dealership put excessive miles on my '12 CTS-V when it was in for repairs



quikag
10-23-12, 10:01 PM
I took it in for that rear end bearing type noise a few weeks ago. Supposedly 3 different people drove it a total of 17 miles and couldn't hear the sound. Whatever. I take it back to them yesterday and take the shop foreman for a ride and he hears it. I drop the car off and use the Onstar Iphone App to check the mileage. It was at 8,036 miles. I just checked the mileage as I'm going to pick it up tomorrow morning. It was at 8,073 and I couldn't believe it. They put 37 miles on my car after I took the foreman for a ride so they could diagnose the noise and then left the car in their care.

I just don't know what to think at this point. How much they burned the tires off, how much they ragged out the engine/transmission. There is just no reason to put 37 miles on a 556hp CTS-V to verify repairs or anything else other than to rag the car out and have fun with it. I am pissed. I have already emailed the service advisor expressing my thoughts and I said I would be there in the morning and I will need to speak with the service manager.

FSTMRFR
10-23-12, 10:13 PM
Make sure u mention to the service advisor u have an appointment with your attorney in the afternoon... And watch him choke......

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Oh don't forget to get the onstar printout of GPS location, route driven and mph during thoes times they were at dealership.... Onstar also should be able to track engine management too... Tell u engine rams during those times they were at dealership as well.... Be sure and ask them before going to dealership.... So ur ducks are in a row!!! This is your 70k!! You and only who u allow should be dicken around in your car!!!

dennych
10-23-12, 10:43 PM
Which dealer? Oh man.... not another one of these again. Remember, you can always put a recorder in the car like the camaro guy.

quikag
10-23-12, 10:54 PM
FSTMRFR (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/member.php?u=177717) How can I get one of these Onstar printouts?

Jinx
10-24-12, 02:03 AM
Isn't it possible that, if they had a hard time hearing the problem before the repair, it might be reasonable to have more than a trip around the block to verify that the problem is resolved?

.Jinx

dennych
10-24-12, 04:08 AM
Isn't it possible that, if they had a hard time hearing the problem before the repair, it might be reasonable to have more than a trip around the block to verify that the problem is resolved?

.Jinx

for 37 miles even after he drove them around to show them the issue? That seems awfuly excessive

nynd
10-24-12, 08:43 AM
37 is excessive... at most I'd give them 5 miles around the area. Not 20 miles to show a buddy the car and rip the crap out of it.... we know what goes on when they get behind the wheel....

DTS Diamond
10-24-12, 09:51 AM
I had the same problem with a 1964 Corvette I took in for a clock face replacement. Service writer put 22 miles on the car test driving the clock. Had a meeting with the dealership owner and the end result was a fired service writer and shop hand who went along for the ride. I can only imagine the thrashing my car got in those 22 miles. Doug-J

Jinx
10-24-12, 11:47 AM
37 is excessive... at most I'd give them 5 miles around the area. Not 20 miles to show a buddy the car and rip the crap out of it.... we know what goes on when they get behind the wheel....

It doesn't seem excessive unless you already disbelieve that three techs went a total of seventeen miles and couldn't hear the problem. (If I disbelieved that, I'd have pulled my car right there and gone to another dealer.) So really the complaint isn't 37 miles, it's 54 miles... after all, if you're going to call them on BS, call them on all of it and get full satisfaction.

Is there a handy gadget one can leave in the car to record what happened while one was away? Or, doesn't OnStar have an optional Suspicious Offspring mode now? Maybe it would also be appropriate to keep joyriding dealers in check.

quikag
10-24-12, 11:58 AM
Picked the car up and after 20 minutes of expressing my disappointment to the service manager and service advisor, I think they were happy when I left.

I turn on my radio and it's on 104.5. That is a younger "we pay your bills" rap, hip hop, R&B station that I NEVER listen to. They said the shop foreman, an older country guy was the only one that should have driven my car. I very highly doubt he listens to 104.5 In short, I think a porter or younger mechanic decide to turn on 104.5 on the FM radio and go for a 37 mile joy ride. Luckily, the car didn't have any visible body damage and the car otherwise seems okay, at least on my 20 mile drive to my office.

I'm pissed and will not be going to back to that dealership. Luckily, there are several DFW Cadillac dealers and I plan to to one that respects other's property.

Xaqtly
10-24-12, 12:24 PM
Isn't it possible that, if they had a hard time hearing the problem before the repair, it might be reasonable to have more than a trip around the block to verify that the problem is resolved?

How many trips around the block do you think they need? They drove it 37 miles on top of the initial 17 miles. The service manager had already confirmed he could hear the noise, so it wouldn't take him more than a mile to confirm if the noise was still there or if it was gone after the repair. 37 miles, are you kidding me? That is blatant abuse of the OP's car, and they need to be called out on it.

Darnell
10-24-12, 12:30 PM
I know I've made a similar post about my car, but in this case I wonder if they did in fact have to replace/repair something in the rear end if break in miles would be needed.

dennych
10-24-12, 12:43 PM
voice recorder guys :)
worked for that camaro guy.

Things like this piss me off to no end. There should really be more repercussions for people who don't respect customer's vehicles.

quikag
10-24-12, 12:52 PM
I have a voice recorder in my bag, it's Sony and its small, and it can be configured to record automatically when it detects a sound. You can count on this being hidden in any car I take into the dealership from this point forward.

My car doesn't seem any worse for wear, but I am still pissed. It's the utterly lack of regard for other people's property that really pisses me off. The service manager asked if there was anything he could do to make me happy and I told him honestly, "No." He can't rewind the miles and we can't determine if my car was damaged as visibly it looks fine. Even if they gave me a few hundred bucks for possible damage to my rear tires, that really doesn't matter to me. That amount of money doesn't affect my life at all. It's the principle of the matter that just irks me.

James Wood Denton. I wouldn't recommend going to this dealership in DFW for any service/maintenance/ or warranty work based on my experience. They disrepect other people's property.

oneman42
10-24-12, 01:59 PM
Sorry to hear that.
As a recommendation, I bought this Ottomate device (it has the size of a radar detector). It detects movement and it is plugged into your cigarette lighter. It will also record the speed, the acceleration and the brake force and you can download the trip on your computer and it will show you the trip on Google Earth and the speed of your car at a preset interval (1 sec, 2 sec, etc). It has the street speed limits, pedestrian crossings, school zones, etc. and it flashes in different colors when you exceed the speed limit or you are approaching a crossing. I put it in my GTP when the daughters started driving but I will move it into my V when the time will call even for an oil change. The cost is around $300 new and Iíve got mine on sale for $100.
George

mrkool
10-24-12, 02:04 PM
Last time i took the car in they put 81 miles on the car :) i did complain to the service advisor and he said they had to take the car out multiple times. The Shop supervisor did look concerned when i told him that his guys put 81 miles on the car but i am not sure how much of that was real.

They also drove the car very hard i know this because i had just come back from a trip and my avg MPG was 17 and in the 81 miles they drove it was down to 7 or 8 i believe. I am doing the voice recorder thing for sure as well.

Hotrod-Realtor
10-24-12, 02:58 PM
You guys need to tell them not to drive your car without you in it. Take the service advisor for a ride or let him drive it and then that's it, no more driving until it's fixed and you are there.
Anytime I take my car to anyplace that I hand off the keys, I ask them to not drive the car off the lot. I even did that at the tint shop. The owner was a little surprised I asked him to not drive it. I explained it's just habit.

dennych
10-24-12, 03:17 PM
Sorry to hear that.
As a recommendation, I bought this Ottomate device (it has the size of a radar detector). It detects movement and it is plugged into your cigarette lighter. It will also record the speed, the acceleration and the brake force and you can download the trip on your computer and it will show you the trip on Google Earth and the speed of your car at a preset interval (1 sec, 2 sec, etc). It has the street speed limits, pedestrian crossings, school zones, etc. and it flashes in different colors when you exceed the speed limit or you are approaching a crossing. I put it in my GTP when the daughters started driving but I will move it into my V when the time will call even for an oil change. The cost is around $300 new and Iíve got mine on sale for $100.

George

Can't they just unplug that? and then joyride? ;) I can't imagine it's very easy to hide since it has to be plugged in

Cadillac Cust Svc
10-24-12, 04:25 PM
I have a voice recorder in my bag, it's Sony and its small, and it can be configured to record automatically when it detects a sound. You can count on this being hidden in any car I take into the dealership from this point forward.

My car doesn't seem any worse for wear, but I am still pissed. It's the utterly lack of regard for other people's property that really pisses me off. The service manager asked if there was anything he could do to make me happy and I told him honestly, "No." He can't rewind the miles and we can't determine if my car was damaged as visibly it looks fine. Even if they gave me a few hundred bucks for possible damage to my rear tires, that really doesn't matter to me. That amount of money doesn't affect my life at all. It's the principle of the matter that just irks me.

James Wood Denton. I wouldn't recommend going to this dealership in DFW for any service/maintenance/ or warranty work based on my experience. They disrepect other people's property.

Quikag, I'm so sorry to hear about your experience and would be happy to document your complaint further (and more officially) if you'd send me a private message with your full name and contact information. If you would like any help locate alternative dealerships in your area, I'm here to help as well!

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service

oneman42
10-24-12, 04:30 PM
Yeah, you can unpluggit but it is on two batteries too so if they don't know is there hidden or if you mention the thingie to the dealer probably they won't be looking for it and they will be just doing their job.
George

cdog533
10-24-12, 04:47 PM
People keep forgetting the rules...

RULE NUMBER ONE: ALWAYS stay with the car. Always. For dealer work, tires, etc. ALWAYS STAY WITH THE CAR.

RULE NUMBER TWO: NEVER let them wash the car. NEVER EVER. NEVER.

RULE NUMBER THREE: DON'T go in for something you can fix yourself or something minor. JUST DON'T. They will mess it up worse. Take your time and fix it yourself.

RULE NUMBER FOUR: ALWAYS establish with a tire shop that the rims are perfect when you get there, before work begins. Have him write 'All rims in perfect condition' on the ticket. ALWAYS bring the car in with spotlessly clean rims. This way, you will have something to fall back on when they scratch them. They always scratch them.

RULE NUMBER FIVE: NEVER assume anyone is competent at their job or has any idea what they are talking about. This goes double for service managers. EVERYONE IS BASICALLY INCOMPETENT and just looking to get finished as quickly as possible. So, you need to recognize this. NEVER assume anyone at any car place knows more than you and NEVER trust their judgment.

quikag
10-24-12, 05:46 PM
cdog533, you are a cynical dude. I like it as sadly, it's very true more often than 99% of dealerships want to admit.

Got a voicemail from the service manager. They are looking into potentially which porter or car wash person took the car out. Based on the radio station, it is clearly a younger guy who had access to my vehicle and thought it would be fun to sneak off for 37 miles of joy riding.

peso611
10-24-12, 11:51 PM
I had a similar experience at a dealership in DFW. Please PM me the name of the Dealer for comparison. I had to replace tired at 10,000 miles I really think some porter was doing burn outs.

dennych
10-25-12, 01:30 AM
I had a similar experience at a dealership in DFW. Please PM me the name of the Dealer for comparison. I had to replace tired at 10,000 miles I really think some porter was doing burn outs.

he mentioned it earlier, James Wood Denton

Teamsorad
10-25-12, 01:59 AM
I agree with Hotrod, I would look right at the service manager or who ever and say no one has permission to drive my car off the lot without me in it before any work is done and that you are going to check. Even walk around the car with them. I do this with my V1, only 14k but that is a lot for me so I would be pissed if someone took my car out for a spin. I can totally understand what you V2 guys are feeling with your 50k+ cars, I would be pissed but can you blame the 16 year old lot boy?

Anything over 5 miles seems excessive to me... I would be pissed if they put 20+ miles on my commuter civic lol

MikeG-V
10-26-12, 08:39 PM
You guys suck! Now I am so spooked. I gotta take my V in next week for the 5k thing. Plus, I have a tricky p0442 to boot. Yea, I did all the usual things to resolve.

So I gotta go buy a go pro? Onstar isn't gonna save me. I am so screwed if they do any thing like what u described. Way to make a newb feel good. Ugh!

Take this lightly and w some humor.

Mika
10-26-12, 10:32 PM
Did the rear diff make a noise when cold/hot? Sometimes diffs can be quiet when cold and can get noisy when warmed up. Don't get me wrong, I do agree that a valet/porter may have taken your car for a joy ride, but sometimes things "pop up" during legit test drives. The good news is that you let the service director/manager know what happened.

baabootoo
10-26-12, 11:52 PM
You guys suck! Now I am so spooked. I gotta take my V in next week for the 5k thing. Plus, I have a tricky p0442 to boot. Yea, I did all the usual things to resolve.

So I gotta go buy a go pro? Onstar isn't gonna save me. I am so screwed if they do any thing like what u described. Way to make a newb feel good. Ugh!

Take this lightly and w some humor.

What's the "5K thing"?

MikeG-V
10-27-12, 12:15 AM
What's the "5K thing"?

5000 mile oil change. Plus other things.

KTM690r
10-28-12, 05:07 PM
I was working as a lot lizard at the local Ford dealership in the late 70's - With the memory of the Bronson movie Mr Majestic fresh in my mind when a truck just like the one in the movie showed up one day for service - out to the hills we went and that poor truck got the snot wrung out of it - yes it would jump.

No wonder I stick around and watch them real close

Airfoto
10-29-12, 12:58 AM
This seems to be a common experience at Cadillac dealers. GM has no control over how poorly customers are treated, nor do they care! I've been down this road with customer service / or lack of, most dealers don't have tech's with the knowledge to work on your car, they call Detriot. It's a joke, 9 out of 10 things don't get fixed and there's always a lot of extra miles on the cars. They like abusing others peoples property and the dealers could care less!

dennych
10-29-12, 03:50 AM
This seems to be a common experience at Cadillac dealers. GM has no control over how poorly customers are treated, nor do they care! I've been down this road with customer service / or lack of, most dealers don't have tech's with the knowledge to work on your car, they call Detriot. It's a joke, 9 out of 10 things don't get fixed and there's always a lot of extra miles on the cars. They like abusing others peoples property and the dealers could care less!

Not instilling a lot of confidence in my upcoming Vagon purchase. I noticed you're in SoCAL. Do you know if ANY dealerships in this area (preferably south bay) are reliable?

I know there is the Penske Cadillac near me and Boulevard Cadillac in Signal Hill. Neither have gotten particularly glowing reviews from my research.

sybersport
10-29-12, 03:09 PM
Wanted to add a few points...

I'm lucky in that I've had an amazing experience with Old Mill Cadillac up here in Toronto. From day one they have treated me like I was a big deal, always going out of their way to make my visits a good experience. The mechanics come out to greet when I arrive, and the service manager has taken me out for lunch on a few occasions while I was waiting for my car. I often bump into other V owners in the shop, so it makes for a fun experience shooting the sh*t with some car folks.

I can also recall a horrible experience I had with a Nissan dealership in London ON. I used to drive a Nissan Xterra, and needed to take it in for an oil change and some minor work. I got a call a few hours later, asking me if I wanted to do a brake flush, and a few other things. I declined, and the person on the phone was clearly irritated. It got into a little bit of a yelling match on the phone, which wasn't a good move on either of our parts, but whatever...

I picked up the vehicle later that day and noticed it had a weird hesitation / slight miss. I opened up the hood, and found one of my spark plug cables was damaged. Sort of odd, since spark plug cables don't often go bad... I found a slit in the cable (it looked like someone had sawed at it to cut it) but it wasn't cut all the way through, just enough so that you could see (and hear) an electrical spark. Beneath this cut there was paper and leaves packed in. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but if you ask me, it looked like someone had intentionally tried to create a situation where a fire could have been started.

Needless to say, it was a huge mess of a situation when I took the vehicle back to the Nissan dealership.

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PS - I'm on my way to Old Mill today to pick up some money... the service manager there helped me sell my factory rims (I got black chrome wheels to replace them)... he sourced a buyer, went to the tire shop where the rims were being stored to pick them up, and collected the funds from the buyer. Amazing.

V locity
10-30-12, 07:59 AM
OK... so, revisit this thread:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-cadillac-cts-v-general-discussion/260516-dealership-drove-my-car-almost-100-a.html

There are a number of options from brickhouse that will track your car (whether by logging or real time). Take your car in and tell them not to drive your car w/o you. Also, tell them (in a nice way) that you have a GPS tracking device in the car that tracks the car's every move.

Good luck!

dennych
10-30-12, 12:27 PM
OK... so, revisit this thread:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-cadillac-cts-v-general-discussion/260516-dealership-drove-my-car-almost-100-a.html

There are a number of options from brickhouse that will track your car (whether by logging or real time). Take your car in and tell them not to drive your car w/o you. Also, tell them (in a nice way) that you have a GPS tracking device in the car that tracks the car's every move.

Good luck!

Wow I just read your thread... Holy crap I'd be so pissed off. The more I read threads the more annoyed I get with Cadillac's so called "customer service" reps on this forum. It's nothing personal to them but their role at Cadillac is nothing more than lip service. I have not seen one actual TANGIBLE thing they have helped with other than give lip service.

I know it's not their fault, but rather Cadillac's. But honestly the more I see it the more I get turned off by the brand. I mean they weren't even helpful in the car BUYING process, I can't imagine how much more helpful they can be once they already have your money.

Karch
10-30-12, 12:48 PM
Pretty much goes like this...you buy it, it's yours. From then on, it's all about business, from the dealer(s) to you, unless it's warranty.

I agree, GM really doesn't get it from this point of view, which is why they leave a lot of money on the table when it comes to loyalty.

I wonder what their market share is on the East and West coasts, taking out the heartland?

hcvone
10-30-12, 05:09 PM
There is a Chevy dealership in Warminster Pa that if you would leave your Corvette there over the weekend the service writer would take your Vette to the Jersey shore, NO EXTRA COST. :(

larry arizona
10-30-12, 07:53 PM
Wow I just read your thread... Holy crap I'd be so pissed off. The more I read threads the more annoyed I get with Cadillac's so called "customer service" reps on this forum. It's nothing personal to them but their role at Cadillac is nothing more than lip service. I have not seen one actual TANGIBLE thing they have helped with other than give lip service.

I know it's not their fault, but rather Cadillac's. But honestly the more I see it the more I get turned off by the brand. I mean they weren't even helpful in the car BUYING process, I can't imagine how much more helpful they can be once they already have your money.

I don't see this as Cadillac or a GM problem. It is a dishonest dealership employee that makes a bad decision and the dealer is then defensive due to liability. I have yet to meet a 100% honest and upstanding dealership, Dealerships are independently owned and at one point MANY years ago GM gave them rights to have a dealership. Once that happens it would be nearly impossible to revoke a dealership, (do you recall how well it went when GM closed so many dealerships in 2009????)

I avoid dealerships like the plague, I don't like the sales process but tolerate it, service ONLY if warranty and I will not leave it EVER unless it does not run and needs to be towed in. You can't trust a dealer for service or sales. I will say that I have have always had great luck with most parts departments.

dennych
10-30-12, 09:18 PM
I don't see this as Cadillac or a GM problem. It is a dishonest dealership employee that makes a bad decision and the dealer is then defensive due to liability. I have yet to meet a 100% honest and upstanding dealership, Dealerships are independently owned and at one point MANY years ago GM gave them rights to have a dealership. Once that happens it would be nearly impossible to revoke a dealership, (do you recall how well it went when GM closed so many dealerships in 2009????)

I avoid dealerships like the plague, I don't like the sales process but tolerate it, service ONLY if warranty and I will not leave it EVER unless it does not run and needs to be towed in. You can't trust a dealer for service or sales. I will say that I have have always had great luck with most parts departments.

It's one thing to pricegouge you. I expect that from service departments at dealerships. It's another thing to put 40-100 miles on a customer's car and abuse it. The latter should be treated more like a crime since they're damaging your property.

concorso
10-30-12, 09:49 PM
Can't they just unplug that? and then joyride? ;) I can't imagine it's very easy to hide since it has to be plugged inI havent used one, but if its constantly sending out information, the owner would know when its been unplugged.

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I have a voice recorder in my bag, it's Sony and its small, and it can be configured to record automatically when it detects a sound. You can count on this being hidden in any car I take into the dealership from this point forward. My question is if you want to deter them from doing damage, or if you want to catch them after the damage occurs, for retaliation? It seems to me a hidden recorder doesnt deter anyone from doing the damage in the 1st place. A friend of mine tapes a voice recorder to his dash. Then he takes his ring with his familys' crest, dips it in dry erase ink, and presses it on the tape. The dry erase ink makes it nearly impossible to tamper with the tape, without changing the appearance of the ink. Lifting the edge of the tape and laying it back down again will leave creases and marks in the ink. The family crest (or any sort of 'stencil' from anything you have lying around your house that cant be replicated at the dealer...a baby tooth or a well used coin with lots of divots for example...something that can make unique consistent marks) makes it nearly impossible to put new tape on and have the ink look the same. You can then always hide a 2nd voice recorder in the car for the idiots who will ignore your warnings.

daedelus77
10-30-12, 11:36 PM
I have to take mine back in for the recaro set frame issues. This will be after my 800hp build. My advisor is great, but I'm going to let him know none of the valet types are allowed in it and hope the temptation to abuse my missile is thwarted but it's like hoping your 23 yo daughter is still a virgin :(.

IBMike
10-31-12, 12:58 AM
Wow I just read your thread... Holy crap I'd be so pissed off. The more I read threads the more annoyed I get with Cadillac's so called "customer service" reps on this forum. It's nothing personal to them but their role at Cadillac is nothing more than lip service. I have not seen one actual TANGIBLE thing they have helped with other than give lip service.

I know it's not their fault, but rather Cadillac's. But honestly the more I see it the more I get turned off by the brand. I mean they weren't even helpful in the car BUYING process, I can't imagine how much more helpful they can be once they already have your money.

In their defense, how many people actually follow through with the formal complaint process? While it may make you feel a little better to get on a forum and vent, it does little to resolve the problem or hold the dealership accountable. Understood they are franchises, but I gotta think if GM got enough complaints about a dealer, they'd have some recourse to prevent the dealer from tarnishing the brand.

dennych
10-31-12, 03:21 AM
but I gotta think if GM got enough complaints about a dealer, they'd have some recourse to prevent the dealer from tarnishing the brand.

I believe from the other posters responses that only recourse is to close the franchise which is like taking a sledgehammer to the problem and not likely.
Also I think the V's are more prone to this type of abuse due to their rarity and "fun factor"

RippyPartsDept
10-31-12, 03:40 PM
there's more recourse than that... there's financial ways that dealers can suffer from being 'bad actors' ...

dennych
10-31-12, 04:28 PM
there's more recourse than that... there's financial ways that dealers can suffer from being 'bad actors' ...
The question is if GM actually does that though.

From the previous posts people say it's just the way it is and little is done. In these particular scenarios of driving a customer's car for 40-100 miles I'd say that's worthy of some sort of punishment. Especially when the dealership denies it.

I think we all expect that there will be some issues that arise from dealerships, but there seems to be a sentiment from reading posts that there's little you can do but be diligent. GM will not have your back.

RippyPartsDept
10-31-12, 04:49 PM
1) you've got to file a formal complaint with GM

and just as important

2) you've got to have proof that they drover your car excessively ... just mileage alone is not proof
(unless it is a ton of mileage or the concern doesn't warrant a test drive)

...

GM's doesn't really have any recourse to tell a dealer how to repair the car
they can say that they will only pay $x for the repair

...

so to recap - i know it sounds kind of cold but you've got to have proof that your car was taken for a joyride
otherwise you're relying on the dealer to believe you based on mileage alone

in this case it sounds like the dealer knows that it shouldn't have been driven that much and is looking into who might have misappropriated the vehicle
other members have posted great ideas and solutions for protecting yourself from these types of situations

for the most part, we're only talking about a few 'bad apples' that can (and are) found across the industry and the general population
in my opinion, what's important after the fact is how you and your dealer both handle the situation once you're in it