: Alright... Its down to the wire, and these two...



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Playdrv4me
12-17-04, 12:39 AM
Basically, it ended up being that my dealer friend (he is kinda like the partner/finance manager, but not the owner) told me that because he is going to go ahead and take my car back at the full value I paid, and is going to deeply discount whatever vehicle I end up getting, I DO have to get it from the available stock. It kinda sux, but overall Im not all that disappointed with my two final choices.

The funny thing is after this is all over, may payment is going to go DOWN about 40-50.00 a month, which im also happy about...

Heres the two choices...

2000 Lexus LS400, 70K miles Perfect shape. Reliable car overall, but now out of warranty (an extended is not out of the question), and not too exciting, though as quiet as a tomb inside and still luxurious while retaining decent value.

http://images.getauto.com/vehicles/JT8B/JT8BH28F2Y0173213-1.jpg
http://images.getauto.com/vehicles/JT8B/JT8BH28F2Y0173213-3.jpg

or

2002 Land Rover Discovery Series II SE, 25k miles, 2 years and 25k of warranty remaining, but questionable reliability and resale not as good as competitors. Ralph, im also trying to keep in mind what you said about not paying so much attention to resale, but its tough not to.

http://home.satx.rr.com/inebaysite/IMGA0044.JPG
http://home.satx.rr.com/inebaysite/IMGA0046.JPG

I like them both ALOT. I could use utility of the Landy every once in a great while, but im a sucker for luxury too.

--btw Sandy and Ralph... the Rover is still a Ford! ;) --

Night Wolf
12-17-04, 01:04 AM
this yound 17 year old would choose the Land Rover... those are my favorite style Discoveries.... not to mention they are some of the most capible trucks stock... I heard though that the 4.0 V8 is a dog....

... then agian, if I had that, I would go off roading... how can you not? :)

illumina
12-17-04, 01:08 AM
of you like moving, mishaped boxes and textures, then the land rover is the way to go. personally, i would go for the lexus: land rovers are just plain hidious.

DopeStar 156
12-17-04, 01:17 AM
Haha there's an Escalade in the background. Think big!!!!

Playdrv4me
12-17-04, 01:41 AM
Heh... That Lex has been around ALLOOOONG time, the Escalade was there awhile back

I actually really like the odd shaped Land Rover designs, especially the 03 Range rover. The 4.0 V8 is... indeed, a dog of an engine, only 188hp from the old Buick based V8. It should be about equal to the Jeep inline six in power and speed.

HotRodSaint
12-17-04, 02:38 AM
I'd like a 5spd Disco in my stable one day.

Lexus has never impressed me with their style, although the quality is unsurpassed.

In Japan, they are all badged Toyotas. If you get one, put the JDM Toyota badges on and freak out the other Lexus owners.

Playdrv4me
12-17-04, 02:40 AM
If you get one, put the JDM Toyota badges on and freak out the other Lexus owners.

LOL!!

In all fairness he does have three Caddies on the lot too. A 2001 STS Black with 32k miles, and 2 00' Devilles, one with 80k and one with 47, but I dont want to finance another Caddy. My next Caddy will be bought and paid for, maybe an old Fleetwood or a Deville.

509Rider
12-17-04, 03:50 AM
Get the lexus, I have known a couple people with ranges and they seem to have alot of problems, and in my opinion they are ugly.

Playdrv4me
12-17-04, 03:56 AM
The main thing that is revolting me from the Lexus is the color... yeesh that is not a cool color. But I do like the way it sits and the overall stately ness of it. Its a tough choice and they both have equal pros and cons. I mean, the Land Rover is a practically new truck, or as close as Im gonna get to a new Land Rover anything for now, but the Lex is a tried and true vehicle with minimal failures. Nonetheless its a LUXURY car with 70000 miles, stuff breaks on those, and the suspension is probably sorely in need of updating.

D148L0
12-17-04, 11:13 AM
45000 miles say get the rover.

Ralph
12-17-04, 05:39 PM
I don't like the look and feel of the Discovery. There were a lot of problems with them and I would be very leary of it's quality. I always see them getting fixed here at our dealership. Remember where their ratings are/were in JD Power, etc, they are near the bottom with Kia and VW currently!

When I tested a new Discovery a few years ago with my Fiance, I was agast! One might think there is a lot of headroom because it's such a tall and fugly utility vehicle, but no, my head was almost hitting the roof, and the rear view mirror was way too low and I had to peer under it to see traffic lights at every intersection! I'm 5'11" and the seat wouldn't go lower. Not impressed. That was a probllem with the Freelander a couple of years ago when I looked at them and the salesman told me they lost customers because the seats would not vertically adjust.

Personally, I would try to wait until your friend can find a Jag (2001) trade-in like you posted before and get a deal on that. I know that Lexus makes a good car but the styling seems so boring, and they don't inspire excitment like a new STS, etc. The Large Lexus styling has seemed so similar for so long I look away every time I see one. I have the same feelings for those sickening PT Cruisers. Great at first but you get tired of them. Mundane comes to mind. The color of the Lexus is very nice, especially for a luxury car IMO. Something like RED is exciting but would NOT suit it IMO.

I guess between those two I would get the Lexus. :suspense:

Playdrv4me
12-17-04, 06:24 PM
Yea I know you mean well Ralph, and Im stunned that I actually put a comparison bad enough to force you to pick the car you loathe so much ;) but I think really the Rover is just the more practical choice. Even if it breaks once a month, itll still be fixed under warranty for 2 more years. If a major component of that lexus breaks (yes, doubtful, but even the small things like suspension are expensive) then Im out the cash to get it all fixed up, or at least another 2 grand for an extended warranty now.

Ralph
12-17-04, 07:49 PM
Yea I know you mean well Ralph, and Im stunned that I actually put a comparison bad enough to force you to pick the car you loathe so much ;)

LOL! Well, it did take a lot out of me. :crying: I didn't think it would ever be bad enough where I'd be forced to have to recommend a Lexus!!! :eek: Or that you would ever hear that from ME! :helpless:

From our local classifieds, Discoveries don't hold value THAT well.

Resale shouldn't be an issue if you plan on keeping it for a number of years.

When you're stranded, just remember, Ralph told you so! :devil: :canttalk:

Elvis
12-17-04, 07:53 PM
I agree with Ralph. Hold out for a Jag. I think you'd regret the Rover in the long-haul.

turbojimmy
12-17-04, 08:26 PM
Land Rovers have the WORST repeat-buyer statistics of any car manufacturer. Nearly everyone who has bought one has bought just one - people hate them once they've had a chance to own them.

IMO, it's a lesser of 2 evils. Neither is really that appealing. If I had to choose, tho, it would be the Lexus. If you had to sell the Land Rover you'd take a serious beating. Not the case with the Lexus.

Just my .02........

Jim

illumina
12-18-04, 12:06 AM
hasn't lexus been on top of the JD power list of some time now? i would still go for the lexus. besides, they're much faster than that boxy-hoochie-ma-thingy. who makes land-rovers anyways?

BTW, what is that sitting next to the lexus? looks like a CTS, but the car is so dark and shiny, i just can't tell.

evilrussian
12-18-04, 12:30 AM
This is what I call a sticky situation. IMO you should wait for that Jag or something else for that matter.
1.Disco - cool truck, bad resale value, reliability problems...
2.Lex - smooth, quick, reliable... Good for picking up 60 year old chicks at bingo... :yup:

DaveSmed
12-18-04, 01:35 AM
Over the two? The Lexus easily. When I think truck, I think your K5. For utility purposes, i'd be afraid of breaking it. Given the general consensus, it seems that it might do that on its own... (of course the fact that i've taken a bit of interest in the Lexus SC400 and SC300's kinda helped.. :thumbsup: )

majax
12-18-04, 01:54 AM
Get the Lexus(the law) it is safer, more fuel efficient, easy going, and more solid. The Land Rover will roll on you lol.

I may suggest that you go get a 8 year old honda in good shape, nice car kinda, and ave up for abrand new STS.

ShadowLvr400
12-18-04, 03:12 AM
That Lex is very bland, the Rover's a problem waiting to happen though from what I hear. If you want comfort but dont want to show off, the Lexus is great. To me though, it's just too blah to be worth it. I dont want a car that I look at in the drive and yawn over. I want a response of some sort towards my car. Hitch my pants up, swagger, and talk in a drawl (my big truck) Talk in a snooty accent and look down on others (Benz, BMW, and Jag) a quickened pulse, and the urge to find some open highways (most sports cars). I dont want to walk to my car and not have any reaction.

majax
12-18-04, 03:16 AM
You'd have a reaction walking to the Lexus, just not a great one. More like, my life has come down to this :disappoin j/k playdrv4me

Playdrv4me
12-18-04, 04:57 AM
Well for shits and giggles. Here are the other far down the list potentials...

2001 Jag XJ8 with 28k miles.
http://images.getauto.com/vehicles/SAJD/SAJDA14C81LF27264-2.jpg
http://images.getauto.com/vehicles/SAJD/SAJDA14C81LF27264-1.jpg

2001 Cadillac STS with 32k miles.
http://images.getauto.com/vehicles/1G6K/1G6KY549X1U266775-1.jpg
http://images.getauto.com/vehicles/1G6K/1G6KY549X1U266775-3.jpg

I actually like the STS alot but uhh... Im not wild about this...

Add Options to this 2001 Cadillac Seville 4 Dr STS Sedan
Trade-In Private
Party Dealer
Retail
True Market Value Pricing $15,114 $17,391 $19,493

majax
12-18-04, 02:24 PM
The floor mat is filty and it does not have navigation, which you wanted.

Ralph
12-18-04, 03:43 PM
That XJ8 is beautiful!! Is it located at your friends dealership? GET IT! How much, 25-35K?

majax
12-18-04, 04:22 PM
I like the front of the XJ8 but the back :o is not to my liking. If you want that get it.

Playdrv4me
12-18-04, 07:23 PM
The stuff in the floorboard of the STS is probably just from it being snowy when the last person got in it. I agree it does not have the navigation system.

The XJ8 is probably about 24.

Ralph
12-18-04, 07:35 PM
The XJ8 is probably about 24.

So it is at your friends dealership?

What's stopping you? The Discovery? :tisk: :shhh:

danbuc
12-18-04, 07:41 PM
The Jaguar is a nice car to own if you feel like dealing with all the electrical problems they are known to have. At least 8 out of every 10 of those cars i see on the road have one dim or non-functioning headlight and thats just the beginning. The STS looks like it was well maintained. You could easily get the dirt out of the floor mat with one of those carpet scrubber cans with the brush on it they sell at supermarkets and stuff. The Discovery it also quite nice, although they don't have the power you would expect a vehicle of that size to have. They are very capable on rough terrain though. Overall, they are all nice cars. It's up to you to choose though. Good Luck with you decision. :thumbsup:

Ralph
12-18-04, 07:50 PM
The Jaguar is a nice car to own if you feel like dealing with all the electrical problems they are known to have. At least 8 out of every 10 of those cars i see on the road have one dim or non-functioning headlight though.

Sure, a 1990 Jag. You'd actually trust the reliability of a Discovery OVER a newer Jaguar??!! :hmm:

Playdrv4me
12-18-04, 07:52 PM
So it is at your friends dealership?

What's stopping you? The Discovery? :tisk: :shhh:

Hehe, no the only thing stopping me on the XJ8 is that with the other cars I dont really have any out of pocket cost, its almost a straight in and out type deal. The XJ8 would be an upgrade, which would require me to put some money down in order for my payment to be where I want it.

Msilva954
12-18-04, 07:53 PM
Newer Jags have none of the old stereotypical jag problems.....sure they have the same amount or usually less then a comparable 7 series way less then a S class though.

If the Jag is a choice and if it was mine I would get the jag hands down....it has about the same power as the Lexus.....while not as roomy and quite it will no less feel better at driving and have a nicer interior......OH and most of all it will have personality...something the Lexus lacks completely.

Ralph
12-18-04, 07:59 PM
The Jaguar is a nice car to own if you feel like dealing with all the electrical problems they are known to have.

Take a look-see at where Jaguar is, THEN take a look at how Land Rover ranks. (look down, waaaaaaaay down there, you'll find it.) ;)


http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23977




http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6276

Playdrv4me
12-18-04, 07:59 PM
Newer Jags have none of the old stereotypical jag problems.....sure they have the same amount or usually less then a comparable 7 series way less then a S class though.

If the Jag is a choice and if it was mine I would get the jag hands down....it has about the same power as the Lexus.....while not as roomy and quite it will no less feel better at driving and have a nicer interior......OH and most of all it will have personality...something the Lexus lacks completely.

And a warranty :)

Ralph, Ive always meant to ask you this... I know its mostly personal preference, but what is the reason you dont like cars with Dark colors? I notice you tend to stray toward the champagne's and white's. I have to admit thats my only other reservation with the Jag is the color. Although really, a Jag in black, unless its a XJR, really doesnt seem to have much more impact than a Jag in gold. They all look good.

EDIT: BTW Danbuc... If I get the STS, I will need to talk to you for sure about the Xenon light retrofit, either via buying the original full assembly on ebay, or retrofitting a kit.

evilrussian
12-18-04, 08:15 PM
Sounds like that STS would be a good buy. I'm sure you can find a navi on ebay as well. The money saved would get you an OEM unit for less than a grand, ballpark...

Ralph
12-18-04, 08:16 PM
Ralph, Ive always meant to ask you this... I know its mostly personal preference, but what is the reason you dont like cars with Dark colors? I notice you tend to stray toward the champagne's and white's. I have to admit thats my only other reservation with the Jag is the color. Although really, a Jag in black, unless its a XJR, really doesnt seem to have much more impact than a Jag in gold. They all look good.

I know that everybody has a personal preference for colors, and that's fine and dandy. :) I don't care what anybody else likes, it's their choice and I wouldn't criticize it. Everybody likes different colors, but here is my personal take on my preferences and the reasoning:

Dark colors like black tend to show even the slightest amount of white dust.

Dark colors tend to make a car seem or appear smaller than they actually are. Try noticing this at the dealership next time you are there. The reason, details are hidden in a darker car. I like seeing the creases, etc. When I saw a black STS in the showroom a few weeks ago, at first I thought it was a CTS! In white, it "seemed" much larger somehow. At night you cannot even see where a black car ends unless the taillights are on. ;)

Dark colors show even the slightest swirl marks even after a good wax job sometimes. I never had that with any of my silver, white, or firemist cars.

Cars long ago were always black. To me, it's refreshing seeing all the newer colors out there like the Chrysler "Satin Jade Green" or even my Firemist metallic. Sometimes I go a month before a wash with my silver car and you don't even notice that it's dusty. However, on a light colored car you will see road oil and tar, a black car hides it. I would rather see it to be able to clean it off. I still want to see "White Lightning" in person and I LOVE my DAd's "White Diamond." (extra $1,800 Cdn BTW!)

If given a choice I prefer lighter colors because they seem more classy to me. Black has been around forever and with all the new colors out there, that's what I would want.

Black does have a nice "tuxedo" look to it for formal or black tie events, etc. I'll give you that. ;)

Maybe I've seen too many Mustangs and Trans Ams in black. I want a more appealing color for a luxury car, IMO.

I also prefer lighter colored wood in a luxury car, much like the honey eucalyptus in the XLR. I see charcoal colored interiors with dark wood, and you cannot even tell that it has hand finished wood in it!

The darkest I would go is that beautiful Crimson Pearl.

Dark cars absorb too much heat in summer and it gets hot.

I wonder what Jaguar calls that color?

Even if that Jag was black Ian, I would recommend it over the Discovery. ;) I'm sure you'd be happy with the STS also, but the Jag stands out a little more imo.

c5 rv
12-18-04, 08:46 PM
I'm a GM bigot, so I'd probably get the Caddy. However, if I set that aside, GET THE JAG! BTW, my son, 19, agrees.

majax
12-19-04, 02:34 AM
Ralph I do agree that a dark color hides the detail but it does make the chrome shine brighter(stands out more) Thats why I like darker colors. The only white I like is the pearl white, I don't like cheap honda white. I like those new charcol slate color with a little blue in it and I like light or dark wood trim, I like the STS for giving you a choice.

They both end up bad on longterm quality, the Jag and Landrover.
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/jdpa_ratings/FindJdAwards.jsp

Ralph
12-19-04, 02:41 AM
Ralph I do agree that a dark color hides the detail but it does make the chrome shine brighter(stands out more) Thats why I like darker colors. The only white I like is the pearl white, I don't like cheap honda white. I like those new charcol slate color with a little blue in it and I like light or dark wood trim, I like the STS for giving you a choice.

They both end up bad on longterm quality, the Jag and Landrover.
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/jdpa_ratings/FindJdAwards.jsp

Mechanical quality for the Jag was 5 out of 5

Mechanical quality for the 2002 Discovery was 2 out of 5.

I couldn't see where it said "long term quality."

I agree about the chrome appearance on a darker car, but to me THAT'S not worth the hastle of a black car. Cars don't have much chrome anymore anyways, especially older STS's or new Devilles.

Ralph
12-19-04, 02:55 AM
WOW! My 1991 beat the 2001 Seville for reliability and accessories, and overall dependability, etc.

So much for the theory that older Cadillacs are not as well built. It's most likely how people treat them, or don't treat them. ;)

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:03 AM
Yea, I am not wild about the lone chrome strip that surrounds the exterior of the doors and windows on the STS. I know they just had to stick it in there, but its really unnecessary on that car.

After all this, the car I really seem to want is a Mercedes ML55 AMG. I mean if I could go get whatever I wanted in my budget, that would be it, Mainly because it makes fun of itself in what it is, a performance version of one of the most prime mommy wagon examples.

Theres a piece of me that almost wants to just take and sink 2 grand into this 7 car. Fix the misfitted drivers door panel, smoke issue, front end bushings... thats really all it needs. The thing is, the smoke problem could be a VERY expensive one to solve, and I just dont want to deal with that on a car I just bought, especially with all initial signs pointing to that diagnosis.

majax
12-19-04, 03:04 AM
My dads STS is a more complex car than our '93. I think our STS is pretty reliable for all that is in it and for how nice of a car it is. '93 runs good to.

Ralph
12-19-04, 03:09 AM
After all this, the car I really seem to want is a Mercedes ML55 AMG.

If you don't buy that Jag, I'm going to call your friend and buy it for myself!!!!

(actually I don't know his number but I'm hoping you'll come to your senses! :shhh: :rolleyes2 )


;)

The interiors are SO BEAUTIFUL in those cars! :2thumbs:

majax
12-19-04, 03:15 AM
This car?, it's in Ralphs color

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:20 AM
This car?, it's in Ralphs color

I WISH!!!

No no no... the old 2000-2001 ML55 AMG. Its the performance tuned version of the Mercedes ML Series SUV's. Those had problems too, but its a really cool concept. The closest you can get with anyone else is the BMW X5 4.6iS, and its still at least 35000.00, maybe 40. Other than that, you could drop to 98' and get a Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited, but the ML55 is still faster and more luxurious. Are you seeing a trend here? I like my cars to stand out either because of uniqueness (XJR, ML55), or flashyness (740, XJ8). I hate blending in with everyone else, which is why Im glad you all quickly convinced me out of that Lexus.

Ralph, I hear ya buddy, Im seriously considering the Jag too.

Ralph
12-19-04, 03:22 AM
This car?, it's in Ralphs color

:tongue2: That's nice!!! Even the interior is in the proper colour. :coolgleam

Problem is, it's a Benz so the damn electronics would probably short out while it's parked in my garage overnight and burn the whole house down! :shhh:

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:24 AM
:tongue2: That's nice!!! Even the interior is in the proper colour. :coolgleam

Problem is, it's a Benz so the damn electronics would probably short out while it's parked in my garage overnight and burn the whole house down! :shhh:

I think youre thinking of the old Aerostar van from the mid eighties that actually DID that when some module overheated. BIG Ford recall.

Ralph
12-19-04, 03:28 AM
Ralph, I hear ya buddy, Im seriously considering the Jag too.


Even Natasha likes Jags! ;)

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:29 AM
Even Natasha likes Jags!
:worship: Thats an XJ8 too!! NICE Color!

Ralph
12-19-04, 03:32 AM
:worship: Thats an XJ8 too!! NICE Color!

It's a pic from when she was 25, so therefore it's a 1999 or 2000 model.

I would probably avoid an earlier ML.

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:34 AM
It's a pic from when she was 25, so therefore it's a 1999 or 2000 model.

I would probably avoid an earlier ML.

Well what I meant was, it appears to an "8" rather than a Vanden Plas, Vanden Plas S/C or XJR due to the non-wood steering wheel (that really burns my but by the way).

The ML came out in 98 and was only available in the AMG tuned version from 2000-01 if im not mistaken.

majax
12-19-04, 03:37 AM
I am still bent on the Jag bing just So-so to me but of course natasha does move it up in my book. Try out this Acura, proably think it bland like the Lexus though. I have seen one on the road in Navy blue it looked good actaully. If I coulsd choos I'd have you in a fully loaded DTS.

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:39 AM
I am still bent on the Jag bing just So-so to me but of course natasha does move it up in my book. Try out this Acura, proably think it bland like the Lexus though. I have seen one on the road in Navy blue it looked good actaully. If I coulsd choos I'd have you in a fully loaded DTS.

If it had a V8 dude... If ONLY it had a V8. Until Honda figures that out, that terrific car will be relegated to the back of the closet.

majax
12-19-04, 03:40 AM
I see someone who has made it well playing cello driving the Acura. I understand the whole V8 thing and agree.

Ralph
12-19-04, 03:41 AM
The ML 55 AMG was available in 2003 also. According to my Consumer Guide.

When I suggested that true luxury cars only have a V8 (in my Acura Vs. thread) I took flak simply because of the XJ6!

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:43 AM
I see someone who has made it well playing cello driving the Acura.

:histeric: Nice.

majax
12-19-04, 03:43 AM
There was a ML just parked a house away from mine a couple days ago I thought it looked really good adn I liked it. Hold on I'll get some pictures.

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:47 AM
The ML 55 AMG was available in 2003 also. According to my Consumer Guide.

When I suggested that true luxury cars only have a V8 (in my Acura Vs. thread) I took flak simply because of the XJ6!

Eek... I stand corrected... 2000-2003.

majax
12-19-04, 03:47 AM
here, I am not to sure about the interior thouhg it is nice I like car interiors more.

Ralph
12-19-04, 03:50 AM
To be fair to the ML series, at the gas pumps a few days ago a guy had a silver 2000 beside me so we talked while filling. He said he's never had a single problem with it and it had 67,000 kms. He said he was a little nervous that the warrenty had expired though.

Of course he liked my car too. ;)

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:50 AM
here

That is one KICK-ASS SUV. Bigger brakes and rotors, Bigger wheels and tires, 342hp 5.4L V8. I like those ALOT. For comparison, consider that the Escalade needs a full 6.0L to generate its 345. The 5.4L unit in the Merc is also highly upgradeable. In fact, the 500 horse unit in the current E55AMG is simply a Supercharged and massaged version of that same engine.

majax
12-19-04, 03:54 AM
I'd say get the car you want and do not worry about your friend as long as he takes the 7 back. I am goin to check ebay.

davesdeville
12-19-04, 03:57 AM
it will have personality...something the Lexus lacks completely.

I'm not completely sold on the Jag, but this guy sure has a point. That lexus... blah. Middle management. Boring. I'd listen to 2 textbooks on tape read by Ben Stine and pop a few Unisom's before I look at that car - that kind of boring.

Ralph
12-19-04, 03:59 AM
I'm not completely sold on the Jag, that car

Dave have you ever sat in a new Jag and looked at all the wood and leather?! Nothing in the world comes close, not even anything in Cadillacs arsenal. Or Benz for that matter.

majax
12-19-04, 04:03 AM
screw teh ebay I am to tired.

I guess if I did sit in the jag I would like it, get a jag, probably pretty comforting. Pictures just dont do expensive cars justice.

good night guys

davesdeville
12-19-04, 04:04 AM
That is one KICK-ASS SUV. Bigger brakes and rotors, Bigger wheels and tires, 342hp 5.4L V8. I like those ALOT. For comparison, consider that the Escalade needs a full 6.0L to generate its 345.

I really don't like that mentality that it's better to have small displacement making the same power level of a bigger engine. That just means the smaller one's more strung out and will take much better engineering to keep it from dying sooner, something not all engine makers bother with; they just say "ohh look it's 100hp/liter isn't it cool?"

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 04:06 AM
I'd say get the car you want and do not worry about your friend as long as he takes the 7 back. I am goin to check ebay.

Well thats the thing. In order to get him to take the 7 back, I have to buy something else from him. Hes not forcing me into that, in fact he also said he will help me coordinate the financing with the existing lender if I want to take the 7 and trade it somewhere else, but I know no one else will give me what hes giving me for it.

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 04:08 AM
I really don't like that mentality that it's better to have small displacement making the same power level of a bigger engine. That just means the smaller one's more strung out and will take much better engineering to keep it from dying sooner, something not all engine makers bother with; they just say "ohh look it's 100hp/liter isn't it cool?"

Im not defending either belief. In fact, I condemn the Trailblazer based utilities for the same thing, making a 275hp claim from an inline six, in an attempt to stump the rest of the class for making lesser HP numbers from their V8's, when in reality you only get those ponies WAY up the ladder on the Trailblazer, but still, the 5.4 is a tried and true engine and Merc has no apologies to make for it.

Ralph
12-19-04, 04:11 AM
Well thats the thing. In order to get him to take the 7 back, I have to buy something else from him. Hes not forcing me into that, in fact he also said he will help me coordinate the financing with the existing lender if I want to take the 7 and trade it somewhere else, but I know no one else will give me what hes giving me for it.

Well my friend, if Natty and I cannot convince you about the Jag, I'll just leave you this image from my Jag brochure of the current XJ interior.

Sleep on it. :yawn: ;)

Mmmmmm, more WOOD in that interior than Ralph at a Natty movie!! :shhh:

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 04:14 AM
Well my friend, if Natty and I cannot convince you about the Jag, I'll just leave you this image from my Jag brochure of the current XJ interior.

Sleep on it. :yawn: ;)

The current, XJ series is no doubt an absolute marvel of technology, ESPECIALLY the newest XJR, which dropped the old 4.0L engine and now has the 4.2L unit from the S-Type R which generates nearly 400hp. Some would argue that the newest XJ lost some of its roots however. Youre right though Ralph, in my humble opinion, the next closest interior to a Jag, is a Bentley or Rolls Royce. In fact, the Vanden Plas has wooden picnic tables on the back seats!! Just like a Rolls!

davesdeville
12-19-04, 04:16 AM
Dave have you ever sat in a new Jag and looked at all the wood and leather?! Nothing in the world comes close, not even anything in Cadillacs arsenal. Or Benz for that matter.

I can't say I have. I did get the chance to stare into a pretty new Bentley Arnage R last summer... I gotta say I don't like the Jags chances against that. It's only like 10 times the cost too.. :thumbsup:

Ralph
12-19-04, 04:18 AM
I can't say I have. I did get the chance to stare into a pretty new Bentley Arnage R last summer... I gotta say I don't like the Jags chances against that. It's only like 10 times the cost too.. :thumbsup:

Oh crap. I take it back! That's one car that has an awsome interior! :hmm:

Ian, ya I checked out the VP's at the Jag dealership. Those little fold out wood tables are very convienient for rich people to quickly write out a check, for example buying my low mi. Fleetwood when they see it. :bighead:

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 04:40 AM
This is probably the only other thing Id consider. I found it out in IL.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=174243859&dealer_id=55410601&car_year=2000&make=MB&distance=any&max_price=25000&model=ML55&advcd_on=n&end_year=2001&min_price=&certified=n&address=67202&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=2000&color=&cardist=574

Now heres a question... The wheels on that Jag are less than exciting, if someone can come up with a Photochop, or even some suggestions, of good wheels for that car without being rediculous, Id like to see what it might look like with different wheels.

Jesda
12-19-04, 06:42 AM
The Lexus is boring. The Land Rover will drive you mad. And for the love of God, DONT GET A MERCEDES ML-CLASS!

Isnt there anything else in stock? For 2000, I'd want to get an Anniversary Edition Infiniti Q45t.

turbojimmy
12-19-04, 06:55 AM
I think youre thinking of the old Aerostar van from the mid eighties that actually DID that when some module overheated. BIG Ford recall.

It was actually more than just the Aerostar. I don't remember the exact recall, but my Mustang GT got caught up in it. Something in the steering column.....ignition switch? Yeah, I think that's it. It would short and burn the cars up, and whatever was around it. No operator need be present.

Their alternators flame out, too. Happened on the Mustang. They short internally and the big wire that feeds it glows red hot and catches whatever is around it on fire.

At least with these Caddies stuff just stops working. Except for the heated seats maybe.

But I digress......amongst the choices I have to admit (despite my earlier post) that the Jag is the nicest among them all. Just make sure it's not an ex-rental from Florida. The one I rented was the same color.

Jim

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 11:27 AM
I think one important thing with that Jag picture as well, is that the lighthing is damn near perfect. I think my decision is pretty much made. Im going to do what I can to get the Jag. If it falls through, then I will get the Discovery. Keep your fingers crossed for a Jag to be in my driveway Christmas day ;)

Boy... how is this for a Testimonial of one vs. the other...

Is the Jaguar of the Jaguar! Comfort, performance, reliability and a beautiful car! So, of course, the suspension is too soft and the engine takes a lot of fuel. The Jaguar XJ8 has the same engine as the S-type and the XK8. My old Lexus was a bad car!!! Read more at http://www.carsurvey.org/review_15824.html

Would you all agree that none of the above has the sex appeal of this? :crying:
http://images.getauto.com/vehicles/WBAG/WBAGH8343YDP07695-2.jpg

I have to admit, if I do get the Jag, it will be somewhat cool to take it to the San Antonio dealer for service. This is the same dealer that has the Ferrari and Maserati business here! :bouncy: :worship:

majax
12-19-04, 02:13 PM
I thought we told you the Lexus over the Rover. :halo:

RealmCenter
12-19-04, 02:39 PM
Playdrv,
What are you looking to pay? I can set you up on a good deal for a Jag, and I can do the select inspection on it too, that way you'd know you were getting a solid vehicle. Not sure what '01 and up XJRs are going for exactly, but the jury is still out on weather the new X350 will make the X308 go up or down in value.

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:08 PM
I thought we told you the Lexus over the Rover. :halo:

We who? It was split pretty much half and half from what I can see, and I really dont want another 70000 mile car. Its true that regardless of WHAT it is, the mileage will affect its reliability, and its resale-ability. Once that Lexus hits 100k it will be of no more real long term value than either the Land Rover or the Jag, at least from a Trade-in perspective.

Realmcenter, I think I am getting the Jag for about 23-23500. I would be absolutely thrilled to work with you, the problem is I cant do ANYTHING unless I can trade the BMW in. I cant just make it go away, and he will only take the BMW back if I purchase another car from him. I think it all works out to about 21-21.5k on paper ACV for my BMW that im getting back, so essentially what I paid for it. As I mentioned earlier, my guy will be happy to coordinate financing through the Credit Union he found for me if I want to trade the car in somewhere else with someone who has a more appealing inventory.

Msilva954
12-19-04, 03:18 PM
The Jag was low miles right??? GET IT

After christmas in January my grandfather is getting rid of his 94 Q45 w/60k and his 85' 500SEC Mercedes with 100k..........im gonna try and talk him into a Jag....preferably 2001 up.

RealmCenter
12-19-04, 03:18 PM
Actually, I just checked and we don't have any XJRs in right now, we have a British racing green '03 XJ8 and we have two '02 XKRs both silver one hardtop and one black topped convertible. We have a whole bunch of S-types, several X-Types and 1 '95 Ferrari 456M (blue). One of the guys I work with has a '01 Vanden Plas SuperCharged in Sapphire blue that the lease will be up on in the next month I think, I think it will be cheap to buy after that, but if you're locked in with the guy you're working with then roll with that.

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:23 PM
The Jag was low miles right??? GET IT

After christmas in January my grandfather is getting rid of his 94 Q45 w/60k and his 85' 500SEC Mercedes with 100k..........im gonna try and talk him into a Jag....preferably 2001 up.

Coming from those two vehicles, would be tough to satisfy him, but I think a Jag would really be as perfect a car as he could get, short of a new STS! ;)

The Jag only has 28k, although that Vanden Plas Realm is talkin about sounds mighty tasty right now :bouncy:

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 03:35 PM
Heres what a 2001 XJ8-L is selling for with similar mileage at my local Jaguar Retailer...

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=173153919&dealer_id=71729&car_year=2001&make=JAG&distance=any&max_price=30000&model=XJ8&advcd_on=n&end_year=2001&min_price=25000&certified=n&address=67202&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=2001&color=&cardist=566

majax
12-19-04, 03:48 PM
the x-type is not a bad car at all if you could get a fully loaded one of those. I know you want something that stands out. Have you ever heard the saying it is easier to be a big fish in a small pond of little fish than a big fish in a big pond of big fish or just a big pond. If you moved to my town driving a 3 series would say your a pretty much big fish. In say Seattle or San Antonio no one notices a 3 series. Any Cadillac here glows amongst all the subarus and suburbans.

Ralph
12-19-04, 04:01 PM
The Lexus is boring. The Land Rover will drive you mad. And for the love of God, DONT GET A MERCEDES ML-CLASS!


I fully agree!!!


Ian, glad you are considering the Jag more now. :halo:

BTW, CLEAR YOUR PM BOX!!! :tisk:

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 04:05 PM
I fully agree!!!


Ian, glad you are considering the Jag more now. :halo:

BTW, CLEAR YOUR PM BOX!!! :tisk:

Oops.. man Im real bad about that... :hide:

Ralph
12-19-04, 04:17 PM
So you can grit your teeth and stand the champaign colour, can you? :D You could always wait for one in black or ?

If you can get a good discount like that, well, you know what I would say...


p.s. I read the interview with Nat concerning that pic I posted and that was HER Jag, and not a Jag add for the company. :)



BMW NIGHTMARE:

http://www.bmwlemon.com/BMW740i.htm

majax
12-19-04, 05:00 PM
There was this story on the news a special documentry about this lady she was driving her child and 2 others in her BMW 7 series. She says the car just speed up and she slammed on the brakes and then it started fish tailing and they hit a tree at 75mph or so all three childern were killed. She lived and ended up in prison for 15 years for killing the kids supposedly. The guyin the article mentioned the cruise control problem. They had sugested teh cruise control on her car was bad. Now of course she should not have slammed on the brakes in that situation cause it is RWD.

she should have downshifted, thats what I would have done, then try and fix the cruise.

Ralph
12-19-04, 05:03 PM
she should have downshifted, thats what I would have done, then try and fix the cruise.

I would downshift and turn off the engine, then apply the E brake. Of course, you would lose power steering once you turn off the engine so make sure your on a straightaway. Or shift to neutral and let the engine blow, it's better than still accellerating, if one can thik that fast in this situation.

majax
12-19-04, 05:14 PM
What you want to do is pump teh e-brake so you dont loose control. Shutting the engine off works, they told us in drivers ed to do that last because like you said the power steering goes out and the power brake assist. She probably did not know what to do off hand and panicked. I am surprised why it fish tailed with the brakes on. Of course that indicates that there is still power going to the wheels kinda. You'd think the limited slip would stop a fishtail from happening.

I was tought to shift to neutral if the is stuck and you cannot get it unstuck with your foot.

Msilva954
12-19-04, 05:40 PM
What e brake...what down shift....all these damn electronically controlled cars..

playdrv...yea those are big shoes to fill but at 82....(he doesnt drive like it...look at his cars) he is ready to settle into something really nice and smooth with a warrenty...he only drive but 2-4000 miles a year....Jags have style and class....his other choice is a Towncar...im tryin to keep him from that....but Sandy seems to like em.

majax
12-19-04, 05:46 PM
You can manually downshift an automatic, in that 7 you can. The reason the cruise screwed up possibly was because the wires crossconected and they were not covered well or something. I could see the women getting involuntary manslaughter and then sewing the pants of BMW. She was clinicaly depressed but that does not lead anyone to kill their own child and two others.

Playdrv4me
12-19-04, 06:20 PM
Im lost... :hmm: How did she go to jail for a vehicle fault if she panicked and applied the brakes as any inexperienced person would do in a situation like that?

majax
12-19-04, 08:00 PM
Because they thought she did it on purpose. They had a investigator and everything and they blamed her depression on it all. I just don't think she did it on purpose.

Playdrv4me
12-20-04, 12:13 AM
You can FORCE a downshift in most BMW's by depressing the gas pedal all the way to the floor. There is an actuator at the bottom of the pedal travel that kicks it down regardless of RPM's. I did this a few times today :D

majax
12-20-04, 01:12 AM
You can FORCE a downshift in most BMW's by depressing the gas pedal all the way to the floor. There is an actuator at the bottom of the pedal travel that kicks it down regardless of RPM's. I did this a few times today :D
why would it do that?

davesdeville
12-20-04, 01:20 AM
I can't imagine that to be true. It would be too easy to kill it if it downshifted to any RPM...

RBraczyk
12-20-04, 01:31 AM
Lol, you should hear my truck when I floor it

::Pedal to floor::

1
2

VROOOOOOOOOOOM

redline tach at 4k, blow into 6k

go from 30-80 in a couple seconds

Real rush, but the engine still stands up

Playdrv4me
12-20-04, 01:42 AM
why would it do that?

Ill find the reference to it in my old 3 Series manual. It definitely does this, it will drop down 1 gear from any gear your in. If your in OD it drops to 4th, if youre in 4th it drops to 3rd etc.

Heres something sort of similar I found on it...

"Although having opted for automatic gearchanging, the driver can influence the process by, for example, releasing the accelerator pedal slowly, thus determining, also in D mode, the time when the gearbox shifts up. In turn, by depressing the accelerator pedal all the way down to the floor, he is able to effect fast downchanges."

Msilva954
12-20-04, 02:55 PM
Playdrv is right.....now that i think about it...no matter what RPM im in while drivin the 3 if you floor it, it always downshifts.....then determines where to go from there.....

Stoneage_Caddy
12-20-04, 03:13 PM
What you want to do is pump teh e-brake so you dont loose control. Shutting the engine off works, they told us in drivers ed to do that last because like you said the power steering goes out and the power brake assist. She probably did not know what to do off hand and panicked. I am surprised why it fish tailed with the brakes on. Of course that indicates that there is still power going to the wheels kinda. You'd think the limited slip would stop a fishtail from happening.

I was tought to shift to neutral if the is stuck and you cannot get it unstuck with your foot.

With engine off you should have 2 full power brake apllications left in the booster . Some GM hyrdaboost systems only had one left but most other cars have 2.

Just a FYI for our new driver ....

majax
12-20-04, 03:58 PM
With engine off you should have 2 full power brake apllications left in the booster . Some GM hyrdaboost systems only had one left but most other cars have 2.

Just a FYI for our new driver ....

:D Thankyou, and that is wheen it is in accesory mode w/o the engine on? I was thinking of shutting it all off and pretty much taking the key out when I said you shouldn't. I did not know though that the brakes are on w/o the engine of course you do hear that noise sometimes from teh ABS when it is in accesorie.

davesdeville
12-20-04, 05:38 PM
Brakes are powered by engine vacuum. There's a check valve so that when the engine is off, the vacuum isn't filled with air, so there's still enough vacuum stored to stop the car. Once that vacuum is used up, the brakes should still work but not fast enough to stop the car.

Stoneage_Caddy
12-20-04, 05:44 PM
yup yup ....

the hyrdaboost i mentioned is a bit diffrent , youll probably never enounter it .
Its driven by the powersteering system . A sping loaded accumulator stores the pressure in the event of power loss (one had an electric motor to back this system up)

but i digress ...

basicly you can still stop em when the engine is off ...its helpful to steer so key should be on engine off ....Thad be good prictce for you in a parkinglot too , stopping a car thats got a dead engine ....be warned a cadillac without powersteering is quite a suprise , even at 55 mph its wicked hard to steer it...most small cars you can still manuver without powersteering but the cadillac is a diffrent story

Msilva954
12-20-04, 05:46 PM
Quote from edmunds "You may not get all the features and polish of a Lexus LS 430, but when you drive an XJ sedan, there's pleasure in knowing that you own a car with personality"

On a side note.....ive always loved the 04' since its intro.....now im tryin to talk my mom into not getting the boxter......and gettin an 04' Jag used....at 15k you can get them for around 38,000 now...with the 6 yr warrentee

Ralph
12-20-04, 05:49 PM
..now im tryin to talk my mom into not getting the boxter....

Is it true that with Boxsters you have to take out the engine to do a simple tune-up??!! That would be $$$$$$.

XLR is the same, supposedly!

Msilva954
12-20-04, 06:15 PM
Is it true that with Boxsters you have to take out the engine to do a simple tune-up??!! That would be $$$$$$.

XLR is the same, supposedly!


heh....thats the one thing I try and tell her about......(ITS NOT A SERVICEABLE CAR AT HOME).....open the trunk..(front one i think)and there is a washer fluid spout and an oil spout...maybe coolant too....other then that...its 100% dealer serviced.....mid engine is nice for racing but for everday use id stay away.

airbalancer
12-20-04, 07:16 PM
If you can affford a XLR you are not going to do the maintence anyway

c5 rv
12-20-04, 08:53 PM
Did you buy the Jag yet? Inquiring minds want to know.

Msilva954
12-20-04, 10:20 PM
If you can affford a XLR you are not going to do the maintence anyway
Thats not everyones thoughts....XLR isnt even THAT expensive.....i wouldnt do my own maintence on a Maybach.

davesdeville
12-20-04, 10:25 PM
Yeah you would, since it would take all your money and more...

Playdrv4me
12-21-04, 03:04 AM
Thats not everyones thoughts....XLR isnt even THAT expensive.....i wouldnt do my own maintence on a Maybach.

I agree, not to mention that it will suck for the guy who gets it used in particular ;)

Ralph
12-21-04, 04:06 AM
I agree, not to mention that it will suck for the guy who gets it used in particular ;)

I would still buy one if and when I acquire the means. ;)

No Jag yet for Christmas? :suspense:

No pressure. :p

Playdrv4me
12-21-04, 04:10 AM
I would still buy one if and when I acquire the means. ;)

No Jag yet for Christmas? :suspense:

No pressure. :p

Hehe, if and when it happens, would be over Christmas weekend. I have to drive up there to get it.

Ralph
12-21-04, 04:17 AM
Hehe, if and when it happens, would be over Christmas weekend. I have to drive up there to get it.

Whoa, your still up!

Damn, it's 2:18 in the a.m. :D

I think you would be VERY happy with the Jag. VERY CLASSY. Just imagine the looks from women while cruising. :yup:

Color, who cares about color. ;)

Playdrv4me
12-21-04, 05:11 AM
I dont know Ralphie Buddy... aside from the smoke issue my 740 has been pretty much ROCK SOLID for the now 3000 miles Ive been driving it, no odd engine sounds, no transmission oddities, no electrical failures. It scares me to say the thing is actually running as reliably as my 2001 330i! Remember my white Cadillac STS was already in the shop for its SECOND set of Crankshaft Position Sensors by the time I put 1200 miles on it! The 740 is a little rough around the edges, and the engine problem definitely needs fixing (this morning when it was cold, and about 45 outside, I actually am now seeing wisps of smoke eminating from the right side hood/fender crease), but IF it WERE fixable, it might actually be a reliable car.

I doubt id keep it over a fresh new Jag, but seeing and commenting on some the issues that XLR/SRX guys are having with such young vehicles I may have been harder on the black car that I needed to be given the current mileage.

Ralph
12-21-04, 05:18 AM
aside from the smoke issue my 740 has been pretty much ROCK SOLID I actually am now seeing wisps of smoke eminating from the right side hood/fender crease), but IF it WERE fixable, it might actually be a reliable car.


You are loyal to the brand, it seems, but THIS problem should not even be an issue! Rings aren't cheap, especially labour. What's the mileage on it again?

You'd better trade it in quick! :sneaky:

What do you mean "if it were fixable?" It's not fixable?

Playdrv4me
12-21-04, 05:23 AM
You are loyal to the brand, it seems, but THIS problem should not even be an issue! Rings aren't cheap, especially labour. What's the mileage on it again?

You'd better trade it in quick! :sneaky:

What do you mean "if it were fixable?" It's not fixable?

78000, I bought it with a hair under 76 I think. It IS fixable, I guess what I meant was, its a MAJOR repair, rather than a minor one. I could buy an Extended Warranty, but even IT is 1435.00! I wish I knew more about car mechanics, I would just attempt to fix it myself, unfortunately thats not the case so despite really wanting to keep it, its just not practical. I think even if I go the cheap route and get the Land Rover, id be better off than keeping the BMW :crying:

Ralph
12-21-04, 05:29 AM
its a MAJOR repair, rather than a minor one.

I'm simply amazed your friend will give you your money back! Even if you took a loss, so what. I would jump on it. It's a good deal to lose the headache. Love hurts, but in the end you'll be better off.

lowscola
12-21-04, 02:35 PM
I would stay away from the Discovery II. Don't let it's styling lure you into a purchase. It looks good but it has some serious reliablity issues. You seem to like flagships anyway so don't settle for the second teir LR. Plus it drives like a tractor anyway.

Msilva954
12-21-04, 02:54 PM
I dont know....with the miles that are on that Jag...I think the trade is worth it alone there...we got an extended warrenty for the 325 we have and to tell you the truth....id be pretty warry of a BMW (newer ones) without one....not for as much as them breaking as it is for how much it costs to fix these fine automobiles.....the price you pay to get into the "BMW" club is one thing.....the price you pay after you enter that club to keep these cars up is another....or any high end manufacture for that matter.

Ralph
12-21-04, 04:03 PM
It's pretty unanimous Ian!!

We won't let you back on the Forum if you buy the LR! :D

Test drove an Olds Bravada a couple of years ago and the ride was no better than a grain truck! I think it had air shocks too? Discovery's very similar.

1SICKLEX
12-21-04, 04:52 PM
The LS. That is the updated model with 290hp and VVTi. O-60 in low to mid 6s. The highest quality car in its class. It is a top notch car.

The Discovery, the only thing you will discover, is how poorly it is built, the avg. dealer service and the quality problems galore. A new LS 400 was 55k, that Discovery may have been 40k.

This is borderline a no-brainer. :coolgleam

Playdrv4me
12-22-04, 12:46 AM
Yea, but the LS has 70000 miles, probably needs bushings, shocks and who knows what else. What about the Jag?

BTW... The power steering on the BMW temporarily failed on me last night... dunno what would cause that but it worked fine after I restarted it.. :banghead:

Playdrv4me
12-23-04, 12:06 AM
Well just when Im just about decided my shit-pot has to get stirred around. My friend is taking in a 2002 LS430 in Deep Burgundy with chrome wheels, Navigation, and Mark Levinson sound. It might even have the ultra package. It is a price premium for sure, and the payment would be around 100.00 more per month than the Discovery, which I actually decided to get, but of course I always harp about how I would get an LS430 if I could. Ill keep everyone posted.

Msilva954
12-23-04, 10:33 AM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHH..

CMON the suspense is killing me....take the premium and get the 2002 LS....best color out there.....that Burgundy color acutally adds personallity to that car.

Playdrv4me
12-23-04, 12:31 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHH..

CMON the suspense is killing me....take the premium and get the 2002 LS....best color out there.....that Burgundy color acutally adds personallity to that car.

And imagine if I put these wheels on it...

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2004/11/9/173/491/1102332313.173491173.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jp g

I thought those were exclusive to 04 and up LS430's, but Ive seen them on a couple of 02's

Msilva954
12-23-04, 05:34 PM
Then they had to have been changed....Im pretty sure those are 04 wheels.

Playdrv4me
12-23-04, 05:51 PM
Then they had to have been changed....Im pretty sure those are 04 wheels.

Ya, I think so too. I like em... very "AMG"-ish

majax
12-24-04, 04:35 AM
Get the Lexus!

Playdrv4me
12-27-04, 04:45 AM
Looks like the Lexus it is. I just came back from a couple of days in Wichita. I drove the Jag, drove the Rover and took a look at some other things, and basically me and my friend decided that value for dollar, and future resale-wise, I was best off with the Lexus. I really liked the Land Rover, but its a boat anchor when it comes to resale. There is also an 04' Z71 Tahoe we are looking at right now, but most likely the Lexus will be it. (But not available until at least middle of this week).

majax
12-27-04, 05:44 AM
Looks like the Lexus it is. I just came back from a couple of days in Wichita. I drove the Jag, drove the Rover and took a look at some other things, and basically me and my friend decided that value for dollar, and future resale-wise, I was best off with the Lexus. I really liked the Land Rover, but its a boat anchor when it comes to resale. There is also an 04' Z71 Tahoe we are looking at right now, but most likely the Lexus will be it. (But not available until at least middle of this week).


:yup: see I told you haha, CONGRADULATIONS

you gotta get us some pics when you get it.

Playdrv4me
12-27-04, 05:56 AM
:yup: see I told you haha, CONGRADULATIONS

you gotta get us some pics when you get it.

Heh... It was funny. We were sitting there at the dealership this afternoon shootin the shit (hes a great guy, came in yesterday AND today to help me), and he kept saying "well, its whatever you wanna do", but in the end he said that car sales aside, he wouldnt feel that the Landy or Jag would be smart with the Lexus option sitting out there as cheap as they got it. When I saw that Edmunds already has a high retail on the Land Rover of 20,795, I pretty much had to agree. Not to mention for some reason Land Rover's are UNGODLY expensive to insure.

The Tahoe was a pretty safe resale bet too, but all things considered, with the Lexus Id end up oweing about 35 grand, and the thing is still worth 38 even at TRADE-IN value.

Msilva954
12-27-04, 10:05 AM
So whats the mileage on the Lexus? Is it the new one he had comming in or the one he had already?

Playdrv4me
12-27-04, 10:35 AM
Well its not new or anything, this one has 59k, which while still somewhat high, still at least qualifies it for another 10k of powertrain warranty, which is what I really like, because in 10k miles I should certainly be able to figure out any of the mechanical kinks it might have. Where the heck is Ralph?

airbalancer
12-27-04, 10:39 AM
Maybe Ralph frozen to a pole
http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?yxe&unit=i

Msilva954
12-27-04, 12:05 PM
Well its not new or anything, this one has 59k, which while still somewhat high, still at least qualifies it for another 10k of powertrain warranty, which is what I really like, because in 10k miles I should certainly be able to figure out any of the mechanical kinks it might have. Where the heck is Ralph?

Through some aftermarket companies your still eligable for 100k warrenty, im pretty sure, dont know if you would want that though they can get quite steep in price.

Sound nice though is it the purple one? My fav color.

majax
12-27-04, 04:49 PM
I guess Ralph told no one where he went.

I bet Lexus offers some over and above warranties, Cadillac does.

c5 rv
12-27-04, 06:27 PM
What was wrong with the Jag?

Playdrv4me
12-28-04, 01:52 AM
What was wrong with the Jag?

It was just OK at best, Ralph is right about the materials, they are top notch, but the rear seat room was abysmal head-wise, the stereo system was the base system which lacked any character, and the power delivery seemed like it was inadequately delivering the 290 ponies under the hood. My 740 only has 282 and it is a rocket on wheels when I push it hard. The Jag was hesitant to release its ability. Add to that the resale factor, and it kind of was written in stone for that one. Still a terrific car though.

I gave every vehicle we discussed a truly fair shake, except for the original gold Lexus, which was not surprisingly... sold :)

Ill probably look into a warranty, im sure the Lexus will have the occasional electronic failure that will eat me out of house and home if I dont. Ive only had one car I could drive into the ground, and though you might not agree with me, it was the 3 series BMW. NOTHING ever broke on that car that I didnt break myself, or nitpick about, like the diff whine. That car was absolutely indestructible. All the trim panels fit tight and snug, the seats were tough and rugged, the engine never skipped a beat, and I dont think it ever gave me any warning lights whatsoever. All of my big cars and SUV's have had one issue or another.

P.S. It would be a dead ringer for this one...

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2004/10/7/171/697/1052939341.171697105.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jp g

majax
12-28-04, 02:54 AM
Ian you buy some of the most popular high-end cars in the world, the most techno advanced. Things brake on them and you know :D It's the burden of owning those cars.

I did not know the 7 only has 282hp

nice Lexus

Msilva954
12-28-04, 09:44 AM
yea nice lexus...dont let them sell that one.....

Old 7 Series had 282hp
New 7Series has 325...or something around that #

airbalancer
12-28-04, 09:50 AM
Was that green leaves in the pic :crying:
It is snowing again here
White interior looks nice but what a bitch to keep clean
Was that monitors in the head rests?
If you have that ,people may want to drive with you ,don't want that.
old STS is the best looking large car out there, but I think you must find the car that fits you the best in the driving position.Or you will be in the same position 6 months down road

Playdrv4me
12-28-04, 12:26 PM
Was that green leaves in the pic :crying:
It is snowing again here
White interior looks nice but what a bitch to keep clean
Was that monitors in the head rests?
If you have that ,people may want to drive with you ,don't want that.
old STS is the best looking large car out there, but I think you must find the car that fits you the best in the driving position.Or you will be in the same position 6 months down road

LOL, I WISH it had monitors in the headrests! But no, that was just a picture I dug up on autotrader of one that looks like the one Ill be getting.

airbalancer
12-28-04, 01:02 PM
Wait a couple of months and get a solstice http://www.gmcanada.com/english/vehicles/2005/pontiac/solstice/
This is what I am loking at getting the wife next.
Looks like a fun car to be in

davesdeville
12-28-04, 08:26 PM
I don't think a Solstice is anywhere near the type of car Playdrv4me is in the market for..

majax
12-28-04, 09:20 PM
I don't think a Solstice is anywhere near the type of car Playdrv4me is in the market for..

I see him driving the Saturn minivan/sportvan :histeric:

Playdrv4me
12-29-04, 02:02 AM
I see him driving the Saturn minivan/sportvan :histeric:

Ya never know!

If I ever got rid of the Lexus just to get into something cheap, I already know exactly what it would be. A 2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport, black or red, with steel wheels, cloth seats, roll up windows, and 4x4.

Ralph
12-30-04, 12:00 AM
Oh my goodness! I'm gone for a week and the largest earthquake in history occurs, got caught in a snowstorm, Ian forgot how beautiful Jags are after I convinced him and he is considering that "other" Japanese car! :helpless: , What's next, aliens landing on the Whitehouse lawn??

Guess I'd better stick around. :halo: ;)

majax
12-30-04, 12:33 AM
Ralph... I kinda wanted him to get the Lexus :o

Ralph
12-30-04, 12:42 AM
Ralph... I kinda wanted him to get the Lexus :o

DOOOOOOooooooooooHHHHH! :eek:

Does that mean HE GOT IT?? :suspense:

At least we swayed him on the LR. :thumbsup: :D

Even Natasha couldn't convince him! :hmm:

majax
12-30-04, 12:58 AM
DOOOOOOooooooooooHHHHH! :eek:

Does that mean HE GOT IT?? :suspense:

At least we swayed him on the LR. :thumbsup: :D

Even Natasha couldn't convince him! :hmm:

Actually a Jaguar would have been a good Idea but the Lexus should be rock solid reliable :yawn:

I think he got it.

Its a good thing he did not get the Looser Rover

Ralph
12-30-04, 01:01 AM
Ian's got som splainin' to do when he gets here. :hitstick: :D

Playdrv4me
12-30-04, 10:52 AM
RAALLPPHH!!! Yer back!

Finally the world has returned to normal ;)

Actually, I dont have the LS430 yet. It just arrived at the dealer yesterday and Im waiting for pictures. Ill probably go pick it up next week if I go ahead and get it, but right now I dont see a reason why I wouldnt get it.

RBraczyk
12-30-04, 10:56 AM
Ian are you going to get back to me on the truck or what?

Playdrv4me
12-30-04, 12:55 PM
Ian are you going to get back to me on the truck or what?

I havent sold mine yet :(

RBraczyk
12-30-04, 01:21 PM
OK, understandable. I wish you would at least talk to me on AIM and give me some idea of what is going on.

Ralph
12-30-04, 02:11 PM
OK, understandable. I wish you would at least talk to me on AIM and give me some idea of what is going on.

I'm trying to coax him into the Jag so he is very stressed right now. :lildevil: ;)

Playdrv4me
12-30-04, 02:41 PM
OK, understandable. I wish you would at least talk to me on AIM and give me some idea of what is going on.

Yea, sorry ive been pretty busy lately, sometimes I stay signed in at home and forget to sign in at work. I just sent you a message though.

Im waiting to get pictures of the Lexus, Ill post them when I get some.

Ian

Ralph
12-31-04, 06:30 PM
pictures of the Lexus


I guess I wouldn't mind seeing some pics of your Japanese Deville now Ian. I had to give it a couple of days to let the shock set in and disperse. :rolleyes: :crying:

Playdrv4me
12-31-04, 06:33 PM
I guess I wouldn't mind seeing some pics of your Japanese Deville now Ian. I had to give it a couple of days to let the shock set in and disperse. :rolleyes: :crying:

LMAO!! Did you just come up with that? I posted in the STS-V post that alot of people call the LS430 a Japanese DTS, which is really what it is, with the LS, its mainly the technology and gadgets that I like so much. The Mark Levinson sound system is on par with the best in the world and Im REALLY looking forward to that.

majax
12-31-04, 06:36 PM
I think he is one of "them" now
"them"-Lexus people :disappoin

Ralph
12-31-04, 06:41 PM
LMAO!! Did you just come up with that?

No, I saw you mention it in the other forum. :crying:


Majax: Ian had better let me know the instant that thing breaks down! IF it ever breaks down, because it would do my EGO a lot of good! :sneaky: :shhh: :crying:

p.s. I bought that Land Rover Ian, the same one you wanted, and it broke down 4 times already!!!! :yup: :halo: Maybe I'll trade on a Yugo. :hmm: :D

Ralph
12-31-04, 06:43 PM
I think he is one of "them" now
"them"-Lexus people :disappoin

Something tells me now everytime we get a breakdown with our Caddies, he'll be posting THESE SMILIES: :nyanya: :gnome: :rofl:

Playdrv4me
12-31-04, 06:45 PM
No no not at all, In fact, my plan now is to possibly purchase another K5 Sport like RBrascyks or an early 90's STS if I can find one cheap enough. I definitely want my Cadillac to be an older one that I dont owe money on, so I never have to worry about resale and can do with it what I want.

The truth is, all of these big luxury cruisers break down,and frequently, thats just the way it is. Sometimes the difference just lies in the severity and annoyance of the problem. Ive gone from getting mad at these things to just laughing at the quirky stuff these cars do.

majax
12-31-04, 06:49 PM
Something tells me now everytime we get a breakdown with our Caddies, he'll be posting THESE SMILIES: :nyanya: :gnome: :rofl:

or...he will say thats what you get for buying Cadillac :cookoo:

were just playing Ian :sneaky:

Ralph
12-31-04, 06:50 PM
were just playing Ian :sneaky:

Correct! :yup: :sneaky:

Playdrv4me
01-01-05, 04:00 AM
Heres some "spy shots" that were taken of the LS today... He said hell have some better ones for me tomorrow... man those seats look comfy

http://home.satx.rr.com/inebaysite/IMGA0054.JPG
http://home.satx.rr.com/inebaysite/IMGA0052.JPG
http://home.satx.rr.com/inebaysite/IMGA0055.JPG

Msilva954
01-01-05, 07:29 AM
Very nice.....cant wait to see interior pics.

Playdrv4me
01-01-05, 07:34 AM
Very nice.....cant wait to see interior pics.

Yea... One thing I was HOPING this one had, which it doesnt appear to, is that in some of the LS pictures I have seen on Autotrader and GetAuto, some of them have this beautifully rich rosewood colored dash wood. It seems to be rare, as most of them have this lighter more traditional colored wood inside (though its still very nice looking). By the way, that LS needs a tint job about as bad as I need a girlfriend.

You know, someone mentioned the Pontiac Solstice earlier, that actually isnt too far from another category of cars I have a little softspot for, and thats droptop roadsters like the Crossfire/SLK, BMW Z3, Corvette, and Porsche Boxster. I JUST NOW finally caught a glimpse of 05 Boxster pics, and I have to say, if I didnt end up getting a luxury sedan, the new Boxster would be on my high list of cars to go find used soon. Mainly because I myself can vouch for the fact that seeing on the road before, I have confused them for 911's from the front, and so Im sure many other people would as well.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2005/porsche.boxster/06.porsche.boxster.s.f34.500.jpg

airbalancer
01-01-05, 09:34 AM
The Pontiac Solstice will be in the $20g range http://www.gmbuypower.com/vehicleHomePage.bp?null&model=Solstice&modelId=086&make=Pontiac&makeId=002&sellingSource=16
Solstice promises the open-air thrills and freedom of roadster driving--a great addition to a growing lineup of superb performance vehicles.

* 2.4 liter Ecotec DOHC four-cylinder engine producing up to 170 horsepower

* Rear wheel drive with a five speed Aisin manual transmission

* Bilstein monotube shocks

* Eighteen-inch wheels with four-wheel disc brakes

* Independent front and rear suspension

* Convertible top completely stows in rear clamshell opening

* Weight distributed to achieve front/rear balance
Get a older STS as a winter car

Msilva954
01-01-05, 09:53 AM
On my short list for moms next car....the boxster has been replaced with the 05 Vette.....love those new ones.

First thing I would do to the lexus is that Letherique leather treatment.....you never know how the last person treated the leather...or even if they did anything.

majax
01-01-05, 12:05 PM
REally cool interior this should be a good car fro you!

Can I drive it :)

Ralph
01-01-05, 03:53 PM
I think AB REALLY WANTS a Solstace! :yup:

Ian, that's a really beautiful color and about as dark as I would go color wise. I think I like that Lexus color better than Crimson Pearl!! What do they call that color?

The interior looks good and the wood stain is about as dark as my Dad's DTS. (not too dark and not too light)

There doesn't seem to be that much rear seat leg room?

Forget the Boxster, as the engine has to come out for even a tune-up. It would be a fun car while under warrenty though.

airbalancer
01-01-05, 04:41 PM
I think AB REALLY WANTS a Solstace! :yup:

.
it is not for me but the wife

DaveSmed
01-01-05, 05:16 PM
That car looks like a real winner. I've been looking at SC400s and 300s for a while. Very nice cars. The 400 has a DOHC 32v V8, the 300 has the same DOHC straight six as in the Supras. Both RWD. (Hey, can't fault me for wanting something to keep the miles off the Cad... Especially in the winter. V8 and RWD? Sounds good to me.)

majax
01-01-05, 05:38 PM
I saw one of those one time it looked really good :thumbsup:

I am wondering wheter the Lexus has a nicer interior than the BMW.

Playdrv4me
01-01-05, 07:50 PM
I think AB REALLY WANTS a Solstace! :yup:

Ian, that's a really beautiful color and about as dark as I would go color wise. I think I like that Lexus color better than Crimson Pearl!! What do they call that color?

The interior looks good and the wood stain is about as dark as my Dad's DTS. (not too dark and not too light)

There doesn't seem to be that much rear seat leg room?

Forget the Boxster, as the engine has to come out for even a tune-up. It would be a fun car while under warrenty though.

I forget what the exact name of the color is, I believe it like dark garnet red or something like that. The truth is, this car is probably the closest competitor with the DTS I know of. In 04 the DTS got heated and cooled seats and has had the nice navigation system and Night Vision for a while (though in mid-05 Night Vision will be dropped). If it wasnt for being able to get out of it easily at the point when I want something else, Id probably scrounge up an 03 or 04 black DTS with Chrome wheels and retrofit it to use Xenon lights. Performance-wise I think its actually pretty quick too. The Lexus has a 6.4 second 0-60 time.

BTW... RIP SC400... Another big coupe that went away and gave way to the SC430, which in my opinion is kind of a cartoonish looking car with very little character. I think the Lexus interiors are strides ahead of the NEW BMW interiors.

Ralph
01-01-05, 09:32 PM
When do you actually take delivery of it? Or did you. :confused:

The driver's seat has some crinkles on it. :D

evilrussian
01-01-05, 09:32 PM
I saw a video of an SC300 turboed, kicking a Vipers ass big time, it was embarassing.

majax
01-01-05, 09:48 PM
When do you actually take delivery of it? Or did you. :confused:

The driver's seat has some crinkles on it. :D
I think a rather large person has been driving it

Msilva954
01-01-05, 09:55 PM
I think a rather large person has been driving it
^^ Better wipe off the fart residue.... :disappoin

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 03:04 AM
LOL. Hey Msilva, what is the deal with that Lexus dealer Lexus of Kendall down in your neck of the woods! That thing is GIGANTIC!! They have an inside showroom big enough for like 15 cars. At least thats what it looked like in their pictures I came across last night. I figure youve probably seen em as they claim to be in the Miami area.

Ralph, the car is/was in detail and prep right now, I wont be able to go get it til next weekend.

Ralph
01-02-05, 03:11 AM
Ralph, the car is/was in detail and prep right now, I wont be able to go get it til next weekend.

I cannot remember what year this one you're looking at is but check out these 2001 reviews on epinions.com. Interesting stuff, see if you argee Ian.

http://www.epinions.com/auto_Make-2001_Lexus_LS_430/display_~reviews


"This car's greatest achievement, however, is not its techno-wizardry. It's the comfort. The cabin is large. The steering wheel retracts and tilts up when you exit so as to make getting in and out easier. The air conditioner cools the interior more rapidly than any I've ever experienced. And what I thought was an unnecessary part of the luxury package, the air conditioned front seats, make life in South Florida more bearable. The fit and finish of the car is perfect."

I'm afraid I might turn into a "believer" if I read more!!! :suspense:

majax
01-02-05, 03:15 AM
I thought those opinions were going to be negative and tahts why you posted them but they are positive :yup:.

No Ralph! stop reading! :crying:

"The steering wheel retracts and tilts up when you exit so as to make getting in and out easier. The air conditioner cools the interior more rapidly than any I've ever experienced" Our STS is like that, I wont say anything about fit and finish(not that it's bad).

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 03:20 AM
I thought those opinions were going to be negative and tahts why you posted them but they are positive :yup:.

No Ralph! stop reading! :crying:

Me too! Thats pretty cool of you to post that stuff Ralph, that guy sure is happy with his! Mine is an 02 and 01 was the first year of this body style. However, Im sure the car has its problems, people always criticize the car big-wigs (Edmunds, Car and Driver, Motortrend) for being German and Japanese biased, but in their own clear long term review, they (Edmunds.com, which I use the same way you use CarReview.com) criticized the 01 LS430 they had for having some rattles and squeaks in the interior that were completely out of character for a Lexus. Of course, as usual they top that off by saying "Based on previous Lexus quality, were sure this is isolated to our test example, so well let it go" or something to that effect.

Ralph
01-02-05, 03:32 AM
Im sure the car has its problems


the same way you use CarReview.com


Well, I'm still looking for "problems!" Damn Lexus for keeping Cadillac from the #1 spot! ;) It's a lot of fun reading those reviews.


Actually the site I really like and have used links for often is:

http://www.thecarconnection.com

majax
01-02-05, 03:35 AM
I know this is such a major question but why are Lexuses so reliable? Is it that they put more money into their cars than Cadillac did?

majax
01-02-05, 03:37 AM
Got it! a negative about lexus, to bad the GMC is on there I know someone with one of those.

http://www.lemonlaw.com/bestbuys.html

edit:those are best busy not negatives, my mistake

I typed in Lexus Sucks on yahoo and got hits on VWs and stuff being bad. :histeric:

Ralph
01-02-05, 03:42 AM
Got it! a negative about lexus, to bad the GMC is on there I know someone with one of those.

http://www.lemonlaw.com/bestbuys.html

edit:those are best busy not negatives, my mistake

They mention the GM X-car rear brake lock up which put cars like our Phoenix into a violent spin and got some people killed. I heard that lawsuit took ten years to settle, and many people got tired of waiting so gave it up.

What exactly did you find for Lexus??

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 03:43 AM
Got it! a negative about lexus, to bad the GMC is on there I know someone with one of those.

http://www.lemonlaw.com/bestbuys.html

edit:those are best busy not negatives, my mistake

I typed in Lexus Sucks on yahoo and got hits on VWs and stuff being bad. :histeric:


Recommended Sedan - Over $30k:

* Lexus GS300
* Lexus LS430
* Lincoln Town Car

Way to go Lincoln!! Man, I thought at LEAST the CTS would show up on their list of recommended cars, there wasnt a Cadillac on the entire list!!
:annoyed:

Majax... The reason that Lexuses and Toyota's are so reliable is in short, because they HAD to be. Back in the days when Toyotas were first coming to the U.S., they were like the Kia's and Hyundai's of THAT time. Quality and Fuel Economy soon became the PRIMARY calling card of the Japanese brands, it was the ONLY WAY they could lure buyers away from the American and German brands, then in 1989 Toyota took a HUGE risk with the Lexus brand and just threw it out there to see what would happen. They actually LOST money on the first LS400's because they sold them so damn cheap. They made a solemn promise of TOP QUALITY, TOP LUXURY and HIGH Customer service because that was once again the only way they were gonna get ANYONE to even CONSIDER a Lexus over a MB or Cadillac product.

Does anyone remember in one of the Lethal Weapon movies, Mel Gibson I think pulls up in an LS400 at night, and Danny Glover says something to the effect of "You bought a Mercedes?" is told it isnt a Merc and then says "Oh, I guess it looked like one, its night time" basically making a Joke about the Lexus. Thats not exactly how it goes, but in retrospect, its pretty funny.

majax
01-02-05, 03:54 AM
But I just blows my mind as to why Cadillac did not work so hard to keep its market. Were they being lazy, if I was them I would care about making a good car not so much profit(Thats me though). I respect Toyota but i'd buy a Honda over them ;)

Ralph
01-02-05, 03:59 AM
Does anyone remember in one of the Lethal Weapon movies, Mel Gibson I think pulls up in an LS400 at night, and Danny Glover says something to the effect of "You bought a Mercedes?" is told it isnt a Merc and then says "Oh, I guess it looked like one, its night time" basically making a Joke about the Lexus. Thats not exactly how it goes, but in retrospect, its pretty funny.

You sure about that Ian?! I own all 4 of those movies and all I remember is a chev truck with duallies that had the power to bring down a house in number 2. :bonkers: :hmm:

Then that famous silver Grand Am but GM went and changed the styling, or the model all together! :rant2:

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 04:03 AM
You sure about that Ian?! I own all 4 of those movies and all I remember is a chev truck with duallies that had the power to bring down a house in number 2. :bonkers: :hmm:

Then that famous silver Grand Am but GM went and changed the styling, or the model all together! :rant2:

Whoa yea I was completely wrong, there was a Lexus in a Danny Glover movie called The Grand Canyon... but I dug up how it actually happened on a Lexus LS400 site... here it is...

In 1989 when Toyota introduced this car to America as a 1990 model, the automotive press thought it didn't have a chance against the likes of Mercedes and BMW. Toyota knew how to build great economy cars and small family sedans but this is the big league. Jokes circulated about this folly, one of which I remember on a TV drama where a car thief who specialized in stealing expensive cars pulled up with a Lexus. When his partner saw him and gave him a look, he said "it was dark, I thought it was a Mercedes."

Ralph
01-02-05, 04:03 AM
But I just blows my mind as to why Cadillac did not work so hard to keep its market. Were they being lazy, if I was them I would care about making a good car not so much profit(Thats me though). I respect Toyota but i'd buy a Honda over them ;)


Cadillac probably lost a lot of it's market after the 1980's. I think they've worked hard to get most of it back by now and they are starting to get it back if they haven't already.

I think another problem is the auto unions. They get greedy and take their cut. The workers get what, 80 dollars per hour or more now! GM has too many factories and overhead. Then you have investors and shareholders who have to be paid their profits and takes profits away that could be used for quality issues, etc. I think we are getting fat and lazy in NA whereas the Japanese pride themselves on efficiency. Maybe their philosophy has something to do with it also? They have great pride and try to avoid shame which is why I'm betting the Japanese government will bail out Mitsubishi before it can embarrass them as a national disgrace.

Cadillac used to be at the top, but when you're at the top, you can only go down.

majax
01-02-05, 04:18 AM
They have their "honor" in Japan and what not but if some people would exercise Christian values in the U.S. you would not have the greed problem :rolleyes2

If or when I work for Cadillac I will pride on making the best dang product on the market. If they offered me say $500,000 a year I'd tell them to put half of that into the product.

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 04:19 AM
Ralph, I think youll enjoy this informative little review thats been on the net for a couple of years now about the very FIRST LS400 series. I like the part where the specific car in that little review has 101000 miles on it, and he says "still more reliable than most NEW cars". Hearing that kind of stuff gives me warm fuzzies about getting one I must admit.

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/Lexus1stGen/Lexus1stGen.htm

One reason that the Japanese will NEVER trump the Germans and ESPECIALLY the Americans completely, is because the Japanese build a car with a swiss army knife approach. Putting into it parts and pieces they know consumers want by copying what everyone else is doing, and making it better. But you know what, Japanese cars lack one key element because of this... they lack SOUL. American cars in particular have repeat business not so much because they are or arent reliable, but because people see soul in some American cars, that you will never get with the Japanese stuff. To me, thats important, but I still ENJOY the creature comforts and reliability the Lexus gives, so thats why Im not totally put off by this. I dont know if im rambling or this makes any sense but I hope it does.

By the way Majax, thats a pretty strong statement, but I think I agree with you on that.

majax
01-02-05, 04:23 AM
The only thing I do not like about the older Lexuses is the leather seems cheap IMO. The leather in Ians looks like a million dollars except for the "fart stain" ;)

Ralph
01-02-05, 04:25 AM
Ralph, I think youll enjoy this informative little review thats been on the net for a couple of years now about the very FIRST LS400 series. I like the part where the specific car in that little review has 101000 miles on it, and he says "still more reliable than most NEW cars". Hearing that kind of stuff gives me warm fuzzies about getting one I must admit.

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/Lexus1stGen/Lexus1stGen.htm

By the way Majax, thats a pretty strong statement, but I think I agree with you on that.

Sure, rub my nose in it. :helpless: Remember who you are talking to. I won't convert THAT easily. :sneaky: :halo: :D

It's funny how we all are adding to our posts AFTER we post them LOL!!

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 04:26 AM
Sure, rub my nose in it. :helpless: Remember who you are talking to. I won't convert THAT easily. :sneaky: :halo:

No no, it wasnt meant as a rub your nose in it kind of thing, just thought youd enjoy it since you always dig this stuff up and seem to like to read about all cars as much as I do... sorry :(

Read my addition to my above post, I think youll understand what I mean.

Ralph
01-02-05, 04:30 AM
sorry

No apologies necessary! I was teasing, see my smilies above? :)

It takes a lot more to offend me. Like bad mouthing Natty, for starters, although she is wearing waaaay too much makeup in this pic! :shhh:

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 04:32 AM
No apologies necessary! I was teasing, see my smilies above? :)

It takes a lot more to offend me. Like bad mouthing Natty, for starters, although she is wearing waaaay too much makeup in this pic! :shhh:

Yea but that is a DAMN good pic! I hadnt seen that one before!

majax
01-02-05, 04:33 AM
Ralphs right about post adding.

I completely agree with you Ian about how they copy us and then make it better. We are the ones who showed them how to make cars in the first place and industry and all that. I dont doubt their inventiveness but Americans are the inventors and they are the refiners of our inventions. This holds true for the most part.

To much make up Ralph, dang you can analyze a picture! She looks good to me :D

davesdeville
01-02-05, 04:36 AM
If or when I work for Cadillac I will pride on making the best dang product on the market. If they offered me say $500,000 a year I'd tell them to put half of that into the product.

:histeric:

Ralph
01-02-05, 04:36 AM
Yea but that is a DAMN good pic! I hadnt seen that one before!

That's because it's cropped and I couldn't show the rest of it here. :shhh:


That 1990 Lexus isn't very long with an overall length of 196, I think it was? I think my car is 205 inches overall and the new Devilles 207.

250 hp was certainly respectable back then!

How long are the 2002's? I'm guessing well over 4,000 lbs.

majax
01-02-05, 04:40 AM
:histeric:
Do you want a piece of me! :farting: :kick:

:histeric:

majax
01-02-05, 04:41 AM
How long are the 2002's? I'm guessing well over 4,000 lbs.pounds are not a measure of length ;)

SORRY I HAD TO :histeric: I'm having to much fun tonight

Ralph
01-02-05, 04:45 AM
pounds are not a measure of length ;)


:devil:

You're getting sharp!

And I'm supposed to be cutting down on my posting, but it won't happen on this thread! :helpless:


part 2: Hey you added that spoon thing!!! :D

Maybe I can just use ONE post for everything I comment on for now on. :hmm: Then you guys will know where to look for my responses and not get lost. ;) :eek:

Part 3:

What the hell was this thread about again??

Oh ya, cowboy hats! :drinker

4,000 pounds is 1,814 kilograms! Like YOU care! :devil:

majax
01-02-05, 04:48 AM
:devil:

You're getting sharp!

And I'm supposed to be cutting down on my posting, but it won't happen on this thread! :helpless:

Moma always says I am as sharp as a spoon!:D ;)

Dont cut down! Because then it causes you to keep re-typing and adding onto your existing posts then we all ahve to go back and read :rolleyes2 :thumbsup:

oh yeah, pounds? how about kilograms

part #2 With all this talk of inches and pounds I think Ralph is hiding a secret American Identity :shhh: and 196.7in is 499.6cm

Ralph
01-02-05, 04:50 AM
Moma always says I am as sharp as a spoon!

Dont cut down! Because then it causes you to keep re-typing and adding onto your existing posts then we all ahve to go back and read :rolleyes2 :thumbsup:

see post #207 for the answer :p

majax
01-02-05, 04:53 AM
I kinda get what you mean but is there a hidden message about knifes in there me being sharp and you cutting down? jk

:histeric:

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 04:54 AM
pounds are not a measure of length ;)

SORRY I HAD TO :histeric: I'm having to much fun tonight

LMAO!!!

I thought that was funny too Ralph :)

Overall length for the 02 LS430 is 196.7 inches

Ralph
01-02-05, 04:56 AM
Refer to post #207 for the answers to that please.......


Hey, this isn't helping me cut down!! :helpless:

majax
01-02-05, 05:01 AM
Refer to post #207 please.......


Hey, this isn't helping me cut down!! :helpless:

Refer to #208 I think we scared off Ian :hmm: :(
I got my metric conversion table out! :yup:

Ralph
01-02-05, 05:05 AM
part #2 With all this talk of inches and pounds I think Ralph is hiding a secret American Identity :shhh:

Why would anyone lie about being from Saskatchewan? :banghead: It embarrassing enough being the only one here from this Province! Probably others are from here but won't admit it! If I wanted to be cool I'd just say I'm from Miami or something. ;)

Plus I have a metric conversion calculator that's pretty cool.

majax
01-02-05, 05:06 AM
Ian does your 430 have the dimpled under panels like in the commercial? Or is that the 03/04 model?

majax
01-02-05, 05:10 AM
Why would anyone lie about being from Saskatchewan? :banghead: It embarrassing enough being the only one here from this Province! Probably others are from here but won't admit it! If I wanted to be cool I'd just say I'm from Miami or something. ;)

Plus I have a metric conversion calculator that's pretty cool. :histeric: :histeric:

Problem is could you pull that off w/o a tan :coolgleam . I should get one of those calculators for my trip to Germany. Our STS of Canadian orgin is helpful I now know mph to kph. The STS goes 240kph :bighead:

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 05:15 AM
Well Ralph, if you can find me one of these for 30k or less... than Ill get your Lincoln LS... err I mean Jaguar ;)

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=171970448&dealer_id=618695&car_year=2003&search_type=used&make=JAG&model=STYPE&transmission=&distance=any&address=78217&advanced=y&certified=n&max_mileage=&max_price=35000&min_price=&first_record=26&end_year=2003&start_year=2002&drive=&engine=8CLDR&body_style=&advcd_on=y&doors=&=&fuel=&color=&cardist=1214

Thats a good question Majax, Im not sure if the 02 does or not. I just wish it came with that Lexus announcer guy on the DVD Nav system :histeric:

majax
01-02-05, 05:20 AM
Funny about the voice :D my favorite part is how the guy says "downtown Lexus of Spokane"

That Jag is 1215 miles away from me :annoyed:

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 06:09 AM
Funny about the voice :D my favorite part is how the guy says "downtown Lexus of Spokane"

That Jag is 1215 miles away from me :annoyed:

Imagine, he has to record that last piece with the dealers name for EVERY DEALER IN THE U.S.!!!

..."at Downtown Lexus of Spokane, at North Park Lexus of San Antonio, at Scholfield Lexus" geez that'd take hours, including retakes.

Crap, I knew I shouldnt have done this, as usual I went searching, and found a better LS430 than mine... http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=173863617&dealer_id=81866&car_year=2002&make=LEXUS&distance=any&max_price=32000&model=LS430&advcd_on=n&end_year=2002&min_price=&first_record=26&address=78217&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=2001&=&color=&cardist=1028

Mine has 59k miles and is also an 02, He is giving it to me for about the same price (30 or so before my carry), but MINE doesnt have the cooled seats, , headlight washers, rear AC and Audio controls, Park sensors, Cooler Box in the rear seat or Laser Cruise Control which is all stuff I really like about the LS (the reason I got to liking it in the first place actually besides the Mark Levinson audio), as if thats not enough, its the best LS color exterior and interior, AND it has the red wood interior I was talking about before. Problem is, he is really the only one who can get the deal working the right way (taking my trade, working the credit union etc etc). Is this just a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side" or should I try to figure out some way to get that grey one? Looking at some of the surfaces on it (steering wheel and seat), it looks like itsnot in that great of condition, but then its black interior. Boy that bugs me, that isnt supposed to happen, must be a typo. ;)

Msilva954
01-02-05, 07:30 AM
I like the redish one alot more.......everything you listed is useless to me except for maybe the bun cooler.

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 07:43 AM
Yea, youre right, by the time its time to get out of this one, that stuff will probably not matter much to the resale of the car. Plus to have the cooled seats, you HAVE to have the perfed leather, which in my opinion, gets cracked and abused looking ALOT faster than the full surface leather due to the fact that dirt and (according to Majax) farts get in there and destroy it easier.

P.S. Sorry Ive allowed this thread to get so big, I know it has nothing to do with Caddies so I feel kind of guilty about it :o

majax
01-02-05, 03:48 PM
P.S. Sorry Ive allowed this thread to get so big, I know it has nothing to do with Caddies so I feel kind of guilty about it :o
Don't worry that's why it's in the Lounge. Stick with the Lexus you got the silver looks bland. Don't join the Lexus forums :suspense:

Msilva954
01-02-05, 05:13 PM
ahh...i missed that last thing you asked me....

Well Kendal lexus is pretty big but its not the biggest down here....JM Lexus is the largest Lexus dealer in south florida.....eh....actually the World....

Come down here....we have the largest

1.Honda Dealer
2.Ford Dealer
3.Toyota Dealer.
4.Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge Dealer
5.BMW Dealer
6.Mercedes Dealer
7.Porsche Dealer
8. Lexus Dealer
9.Acura Dealer
10. Cadillac Dealer (by sales and money earned...Bayview)
11. Maserati Dealer
12. Audi Dealer (same as porsche)
13. Mazda Dealer

There are probably more too but I cant think of them off the top of my head.....basically if you want to buy a car south florida is the prime spot to buy them from..

Playdrv4me
01-02-05, 06:39 PM
Don't worry that's why it's in the Lounge. Stick with the Lexus you got the silver looks bland. Don't join the Lexus forums :suspense:

Heh, dont worry, really not in the mood to start all over again at yet ANOTHER Forum.

Ralph
01-02-05, 07:01 PM
Crap, I knew I shouldnt have done this, as usual I went searching, and found a better LS430 than mine... http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=173863617&dealer_id=81866&car_year=2002&make=LEXUS&distance=any&max_price=32000&model=LS430&advcd_on=n&end_year=2002&min_price=&first_record=26&address=78217&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=2001&=&color=&cardist=1028

Mine has 59k miles and is also an 02, He is giving it to me for about the same price (30 or so before my carry), but MINE doesnt have the cooled seats, , headlight washers, rear AC and Audio controls, Park sensors, Cooler Box in the rear seat or Laser Cruise Control which is all stuff I really like about the LS (the reason I got to liking it in the first place actually besides the Mark Levinson audio), as if thats not enough, its the best LS color exterior and interior, AND it has the red wood interior I was talking about before. Problem is, he is really the only one who can get the deal working the right way (taking my trade, working the credit union etc etc). Is this just a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side" or should I try to figure out some way to get that grey one? Looking at some of the surfaces on it (steering wheel and seat), it looks like itsnot in that great of condition, but then its black interior. Boy that bugs me, that isnt supposed to happen, must be a typo. ;)

That grey one looks champaign to me. Maybe it's my new monitor?

I like the cranbery LS also but if that other one has the options you want, don't lock yourself into the cranbery one. However, as long as you can live with the fact it doesn't have everything that you wanted for options, then don't worry about it. Make sure you will be happy with what you buy and hopefully you won't have regrets.

Since there seems to be a lot of luxury cars at your dealer lots you could always wait for that perfect Jaguar. There is no rush, right? ;)

Don't apologize for long threads. :tisk: If aplogies were necessary for that I would be apologizing for the next year for threads like that MONSTER about the San Andraes video game! :yup:

It's also fun, educational and interesting discussing your options. ;)

DaveSmed
01-02-05, 07:16 PM
With all this talk of inches and pounds I think Ralph is hiding a secret American Identity :shhh: and 196.7in is 499.6cm

MORE Proof..... (look closely at what mode his dash is in....) :eek: ;)

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=219521&postcount=7

Ralph
01-02-05, 07:21 PM
MORE Proof..... (look closely at what mode his dash is in....) :eek: ;)

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=219521&postcount=7


Ha Ha! I set it to "english" because all you Yanks would be confused with that strange thing called the metric system (which I don't like very much anyway) ;)

OK, I confess, my real name is Ben Stiller, I live in Beverly Hills California and I like to make comedies like "Zoolander" and "Starsky and Hutch." I'm also going to dump my wife and marry that really hottt Canadian Supermodel/Actress named Natasha Henstridge. :D But don't tell my wife please. :shhh:

evilrussian
01-02-05, 08:25 PM
MORE Proof..... (look closely at what mode his dash is in....) :eek: ;)

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=219521&postcount=7
:histeric: Busted! You are now considered a YANK in a closet! Go ahead, cross the border, everyone is welcome here :thumbsup:

Ralph
01-02-05, 09:41 PM
:histeric: Busted! You are now considered a YANK in a closet! Go ahead, cross the border, everyone is welcome here :thumbsup:

Well, I may be pro-American, but I still love my country. It's not so bad here, except winters and elevated gas prices with hidden tax! ;) Our women are more beautiful afterall. :sneaky:


Ian, here is another article but for the 2004 Ls430. The article breaks down who buys them more by gender, etc. There were 2 known recalls:

"There have been two safety recalls of the 2004 model, both announced in June.

NHTSA reports 13,000 sedans were recalled to replace the transmission because some cars might have a piece of metal come loose in the transmission, preventing the parking brake from activating.

The other recall, of 14,259 cars, involved a manufacturing error of the fuel pump which might lead to the pump failing.

These were the first safety recalls of the LS since calendar 1998."

I'd better stop reading these "pro" articles or I might have to buy one. :suspense:

http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200%257E25827%257E2297818,00.html

majax
01-02-05, 11:01 PM
DANG! I WISH I noticed his display was not on metric :banghead:

Playdrv4me
01-03-05, 12:40 AM
Since its been the Holiday's, I havent gotten any new pics yet, but I dug this one up, and this car is identical.

http://images.getauto.com/vehicles/JTHB/JTHBN30F510027324-1.jpg

davesdeville
01-03-05, 01:02 AM
At least it's not beige or silver, whatever color that is gives it a little pizzaz and personality.

Ralph
01-03-05, 01:17 AM
At least it's not beige or silver, whatever color that is gives it a little pizzaz and personality.

Some day you may hopefully appreciate the more "classy" colors available out there and realize basic black has been around since the dawn of the Model T. I for one am glas there is a variety of decent colors available.

davesdeville
01-03-05, 01:36 AM
Some day you may realise there are damn near a billion silver and beige lexuses on the road. :rant2: And I didn't say black either, and that car's not black, so where'd black come from? :suspect:

Ralph
01-03-05, 01:39 AM
Some day you may realise there are damn near a billion silver and beige lexuses on the road. :rant2: And I didn't say black either, and that car's not black, so where'd black come from? :suspect:

I thought your 1975 was black. All young people seem to like black. ;)

I guess I'm stereotyping you. I hardly ever see a Lexus here to know what the popular colors are on them that people prefer. All I see are Cadillacs and Ford pickups.(for the most part) Oh, and a lot of Chevys.

At least silver and beige hide a light coat of dust whereas dark colors have to be kept saram wrapped. :devil:

Playdrv4me
01-03-05, 02:00 AM
One thing I like about the Lexus is that it has a big imposing "fat" look, like alot of the older blocky Mercs.

And Ralph, since you mentioned Chevys, thats a perfect way to start out Chapter 13 of this huge thread... Which is a Chevrolet Tahoe im considering as a cheap alternative to the Lexus. This has been on the lot for a while, but I never payed much attention to it until I noticed how many features it had. The wheels HAVE to go, but otherwise its a nice practical option.

http://www.getauto.com/autolinks_cardetail.html?x_dealer_id=AACXD&vinNum=1GNEK13T51J126708#1

Ralph
01-03-05, 02:05 AM
One thing I like about the Lexus is that it has a big imposing "fat" look, like alot of the older blocky Mercs.

And Ralph, since you mentioned Chevys, thats a perfect way to start out Chapter 13 of this huge thread... Which is a Chevrolet Tahoe im considering as a cheap alternative to the Lexus. This has been on the lot for a while, but I never payed much attention to it until I noticed how many features it had. The wheels HAVE to go, but otherwise its a nice practical option.

http://www.getauto.com/autolinks_cardetail.html?x_dealer_id=AACXD&vinNum=1GNEK13T51J126708#1

5.3 V8??? 5.7's a 350, so how many cubes is that? Wouldn't it be kind of underpowered? I've also heard that a smaller engine asked to push a heavy vehicle will suffer more bad gas mileage than a heavy vehicle with a larger engine that doesn't have to work as hard to move it.

I think the Lexus might be a better choice because you want luxury and all the toys, plus decent gas mileage unless you are going offroading, etc.

majax
01-03-05, 02:14 AM
Dang to bad it is black;)

thats not a bad looking truck I like the cow guard thing on the front. Those are also pretty reliable. Wou8ld you really want that over the Lexus?

Ralph
01-03-05, 02:17 AM
Ian, I'd love to see an inventory list of everything for sale on that lot. Lets see what they got? Is that possible?

Edit, oh crap, nevermind, I found it! Taking a good long look...

majax
01-03-05, 02:19 AM
Ian, I'd love to see an inventory list of everything for sale on that lot. Lets see what they got? Is that possible?
I agree %100!!!!! you keep throwing these choices at us we want to throw some at you ;)

Ralph
01-03-05, 02:23 AM
I agree %100!!!!! you keep throwing these choices at us we want to throw some at you ;)

Click under "Steven Motors" then "click here to go back" and we can see everything....

majax
01-03-05, 02:29 AM
Click under "Steven Motors" then "click here to go back" and we can see everything....
Click where? :hmm:

Ralph
01-03-05, 02:36 AM
Click where? :hmm:

Go to his Taho link, click it, then right under the dealer name at the top of the page, there is some fine print that says "click here to go back"-click THAT. I just saw the whole inventory and that champaign Jag is still there.

I see a nice 2002 Deville for $20,000 with only 47,500 miles that I like.

There is a nice RX300 for $26,000 with 45K on it.

There's a black 745i that must have been Ian's with 75 k on it also.

So far I think I like the Deville or the Jag the best!

Playdrv4me
01-03-05, 05:02 AM
The Devilles and the STS wont work because he doesnt own them well enough to make them attractive in monthly payment or to the bank, and the Devilles are based out models, not nice DTS's like your dads, there is no luxury in those whatsoever, except for your basic leather seats and a stereo.

Im really trying to keep from making myself dizzy with choices, so right now Im keeping it between the Lexus as the luxury choice, and the Tahoe or Discovery as the other choices.

davesdeville
01-03-05, 05:47 AM
5.3 V8??? 5.7's a 350, so how many cubes is that? Wouldn't it be kind of underpowered?

That's 325ci for the 5.3. 285hp 325ft.lbs. will move it around OK, too bad it's not the 340hp/455ft.lbs. 8.1 since it can't pull down decent mileage no matter what engine's in it.



I thought your 1975 was black. All young people seem to like black. ;)

I do like black, but my 75 is a pretty ugly light brown and incidentally outweighs that Tahoe.

Playdrv4me
01-03-05, 06:26 AM
That's 325ci for the 5.3. 285hp 325ft.lbs. will move it around OK, too bad it's not the 340hp/455ft.lbs. 8.1 since it can't pull down decent mileage no matter what engine's in it.

I do like black, but my 75 is a pretty ugly light brown and incidentally outweighs that Tahoe.

I take it the 5.3 is a newer version of the old 5.0/305ci? I think considering that the 282 horse 4.4L unit in my 740 pulls with authority, a 285 horse jobber with more displacement (See, I pay attention) should be just fine in that Tahoe.

airbalancer
01-03-05, 08:15 AM
5.3 V8??? 5.7's a 350, so how many cubes is that? Wouldn't it be kind of underpowered? I've also heard that a smaller engine asked to push a heavy vehicle will suffer more bad gas mileage than a heavy vehicle with a larger engine that doesn't have to work as hard to move it.

I think the Lexus might be a better choice because you want luxury and all the toys, plus decent gas mileage unless you are going offroading, etc.
I love it when people talk about trucks that do not own one. :banghead:
5.3 under power!What the heck you talking about ?
Too many people listen to hear say
5.3 will move that Tahoe down the road very nicely.Also the Auto trac 4 wheel drive optain is very nice. It is like AWD only kicks in when you need it.
Seats are 10 way power full heat
I have a GMC SLE extended cab ( under a LT) that wife says drive almost as nice as the STS.
I would get the Tahoe and save a ton of money.And get a little roadster to play with .
You should be in high teen for mileage in real life driving.

With the bush guard you will not have worry about a slower drive in front of you :histeric:

airbalancer
01-03-05, 08:27 AM
5328cc (325 ci)
295 hp @ 5200 rpm Yukon and Tahoe
330 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm Yukon and Tahoe

Ralph
01-03-05, 03:16 PM
I love it when people talk about trucks that do not own one.

I love it when other Canucks down east forget that I'm from Saskatchewan, pick up truck central for grain farmers and hillbillies alike. ;) 50% of vehicles here are trucks. We had several trucks in my family and Dad still has a mint Bonanza Chev that's in nicer condition that your Silverado today! Everyone and I mean EVERYONE of my friends back home have a pick-up truck. I've driven and been in enough of them in all kinds of driving including off-roading to know how they perform thank you.

Simply put, I wasn't aware of the 5.3 and just wanted to know the cubic inch displacement. Considering the weight of that Tahoe, personally I would want all the engine that could be crammed into it. The torque number is decent however.

You never bothered to answer my question about smaller displacement engines having to work harder in heavier vehicles.

Thanks for the engine numbers Dave.

C'mon AB, you know better than to mess with me,( :gungrin: ) lets keep it peaceful, shall we?! :halo: I never claimed to be a truck expert, and that's why I asked about that engine, but I don't like to be criticized either.

Ian at least get the Tahoe over the Discovery! I can't believe you are still considering it. Oh wait, I forgot, I know nothing on this subject, nevermind! :suspense:

airbalancer
01-03-05, 04:12 PM
I love it when other Canucks down east forget that I'm from Saskatchewan, pick up truck central for grain farmers and hillbillies alike. ;) 50% of vehicles here are trucks. We had several trucks in my family and Dad still has a mint Bonanza Chev that's in nicer condition that your Silverado today!


C'mon AB, you know better than to mess with me,( :gungrin: ) lets keep it peaceful, shall we?! :halo: I never claimed to be a truck expert, and that's why I asked about that engine, but I don't like to be criticized either.

Ian at least get the Tahoe over the Discovery! I can't believe you are still considering it. Oh wait, I forgot, I know nothing on this subject, nevermind! :suspense:
:histeric: By the way I said I had a GMC which is a Sierra :histeric:

I do not Ian think will be pulling any grain trailer with the Tahoe! He mite have to go a hill but being from Saskatchewan would you know anything about going up and down hills :histeric:
Just Kidding Ralph