: Motor-trend runs the Vagon on the nurbrurging; Faster than a AT?



M5eater
10-18-12, 11:54 AM
For the record, they managed 8:12.1



And that's the Nurburgring. Any little factor plaguing a car is magnified like crazy. If you're losing a second per mile because of a blend of a damp track, a tired engine, 100 extra pounds, warped wheels, and a suicidal bunny, that's almost 13 seconds. It's also almost exactly the amount of time Johnny O'Connell trailed John Heinricy's lap: 12.8 seconds. The whole combined Cadillac/Motor Trend team was a little bit disappointed at first, until we realized one thing: 8:12.1 makes our old long term Cadillac CTS-V Sport Wagon the world's fastest station wagon, because no other station wagon has ever gone around the Nurburgring as quick. I, for one, am good with that.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/travel/1208_2011_cadillac_cts_v_wagon/viewall.html#ixzz29f8bd8LK

It would be my opinion that the above is enough to quantify 13 seconds across 13 miles.. Do you agree?

Discuss.

FLTRI
10-18-12, 01:24 PM
I'd be more inclined to think the Motor Trend drivers are 13 seconds short of John Heinricy's skill set...

neuronbob
10-18-12, 01:39 PM
Exactly.

larry arizona
10-18-12, 02:00 PM
damp track will cause 13 seconds easy. I am sure John had warmer and drier conditions.

MacBuster
10-18-12, 02:03 PM
I'd be more inclined to think the Motor Trend drivers are 13 seconds short of John Heinricy's skill set...

All due respect to Heinricy, O'connell is the far better driver. He's a professional race driver...of Cadillacs!

hulksdaddy
10-18-12, 02:18 PM
damp track will cause 13 seconds easy. I am sure John had warmer and drier conditions.


Nail on the head.

M5eater
10-18-12, 03:32 PM
All due respect to Heinricy, O'connell is the far better driver. He's a professional race driver...of Cadillacs!

Thank you.

This is who Cadillac has running their world challenge car's right now. The crevate, as they explain, is that the ring is so demanding, that even O'connell probably isn't at his peak until he's had a couple hundred runs under his belt. He didn't, John has over 1,000, had better conditions, a car that weighed 100lbs less and a lack of suicidal bunnies.

Xaqtly
10-18-12, 04:23 PM
It's the bunnies that did it. Those fluffy little bastards.

pat2t2f
10-18-12, 11:10 PM
Bunnies are yummy.

M5eater
10-19-12, 08:45 AM
It's the bunnies that did it. Those fluffy little bastards.
It was a big bunny..


"I had to swerve around a rabbit," Johnny tells me, smiling. I guess the look in my face screamed, "Screw the rabbit!" because he quickly adds, "It was a big rabbit."
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lCvyIapbxFQ/S7WJe2x_NqI/AAAAAAAAAEA/zWcIfM9eSUo/s1600/lion+bunny2.jpg

marktanner
10-21-12, 05:02 PM
I have viewed the video, and have driven the 'Ring (two driving schools). I have met both O'Connell and Heinricy. O'Connell is certainly the better driver, but Heinricy has a lot more experience at the 'Ring, and track knowledge is paramount there. I couldn't help but notice that O'Connell missed many of his apices, and that will definitely slow things down. Heinricy's lap was much cleaner. The dynamics of the Vagon also may be different enough to make a difference in the time. A better trial would be two similar cars except for the transmission, and have the same experienced driver drive both back-to-back to see which transmission is faster on the track. Probably won't happen with this generation, but still the most valid way.

thebigjimsho
10-24-12, 11:52 AM
I have viewed the video, and have driven the 'Ring (two driving schools). I have met both O'Connell and Heinricy. O'Connell is certainly the better driver, but Heinricy has a lot more experience at the 'Ring, and track knowledge is paramount there. I couldn't help but notice that O'Connell missed many of his apices, and that will definitely slow things down. Heinricy's lap was much cleaner. The dynamics of the Vagon also may be different enough to make a difference in the time. A better trial would be two similar cars except for the transmission, and have the same experienced driver drive both back-to-back to see which transmission is faster on the track. Probably won't happen with this generation, but still the most valid way.

I don't think OConnell "missed" any apexes. The track wasn't fully dry and I bet he was on a wet driving line...

1997BlackETC
10-24-12, 01:29 PM
On a dry surface the V wagon may have actually beaten the Sedan under similiar driving conditions. The Weight distribution of the V wagon is better than the Sedan. Can't remember if the wagon they tested vs the sedan they tested had a sunroof either, if so the sunroof could slow down the time a little bit by adding a higher center of gravity to the car, not sure if one car had one and the other did not?

JFJr
10-24-12, 02:16 PM
Bunnies are yummy.Maybe it was one of those rare jackelopes.

Jud

marktanner
10-26-12, 09:52 AM
Track didn't look wet to me. I've driven it in the rain. I doubt he would try a record run in the rain; a good time is just not possible. He missed the apices. The wet line is never faster than the dry line in the dry; that's just physics. It's really hard to remember all of the curves, much less perfect them and hit them perfectly. That's why experience is so important there, and is worth many seconds in lap time. Again, it's a great effort to do what he did with limited experience.

As far as the weight distribution of the wagon goes, while it may be a bit better balanced front to rear in percentage, that rear weight is centered pretty high. When I drove a wagon at the Road Atlanta driving lab, I definitely felt the rear weight compared to my sedan and the coupe that I drove there, and it felt a bit like a pendulum. That doesn't mean it's slower or faster, but it wasn't as confidence inspiring for me. Of course, I only got a few laps, so more experience would surely help. Back to back lap times with the same driver with similar equipment would certainly be more telling. The times posted by Top Gear are certainly not scientific, being done on different days with different conditions.