: Auto to Manual need Opinion thinking of trading in



Jdani
10-16-12, 11:52 AM
I know this is an old topic and i read all the old posts about this Topic but i have a question and would gladly apprecialte some opinions. So i Purchased a brand new 2012 Cadi v Sedan auto in January 2012 , i have 10k miles. at first i bought it as a daily driver and with the snow and the kids playing all kinds of sports i opted to buy an x5 for everyday use. I now use the V on nice days and maybe a few times a week i should say i basically split the time between the 2. Anyway now that i have a daily driver it kills me that i didnt get a manual tranny. Ive recently visited the dealr and actually considered trading it in for a 2013 exact car with manual. they want to give me about 50 grand for my car and the new one about 70 grand. This would be $20,000 For a manual tranny to me thats a little nuts. As crazy as i am i dont think this makes sense, now that im thinking about all this since i dont need a sedan anymore im thinking Coupe or maybe even vette (dont laugh) i know im all over the place but its driving me crazy. What would you do, keep the car and enjoy, trade, Sell, get completely different car, any ideas??? thanks

M5eater
10-16-12, 11:59 AM
DO IT.

I did it. For the exact same reasons. The V became a weekend car, and the auto was borring as a weekend car.

cost me $3K up front. but I did it damnit!

Acutally what I did was the residual on the V had ~ a $9600 gap between that and a new car (that cost a bit less than my old one)

there was ~ a $6900 cost cap incentive from ally at the time for a trade-in on a new lease, that plus $3K in cash put me in the new (cheaper) car. without the roof, the $1300 gas guzzler or the $800 trim, minus taxes on that overall it was ~ $3500 cheaper overal

Mine had just under 10K miles, yours should not have deprecated that much if you're around there, but keep in mind, for some reason a light-switch flips once you pass into 5 digit mileage zone and the value tanks.

I'm not sure if you're leasing, loaning our own ouright, that's going to significantly alter your ability to get into another car. So is your ability to wait for more incentives. So is the fact that the 2013 may be the last MY for the V.

larry arizona
10-16-12, 12:22 PM
If money is an object NO WAY. If its purely 6M over a 6A for fun DO IT. The 6M is a pure joy to drive for fun.

Jdani
10-16-12, 12:38 PM
M5 eater I do have a loan in car but I'm not upside down I owe 50 and they will give me 50k. So at the end I the day if I put like 10 grand down payment stays the same but I add a year but atleast ill have what I want. I I don't put money down payment goes up too much. That will kill me. One other question I take it that u have no regrets?

M5eater
10-16-12, 12:49 PM
M5 eater I do have a loan in car but I'm not upside down I owe 50 and they will give me 50k. So at the end I the day if I put like 10 grand down payment stays the same but I add a year but atleast ill have what I want. I I don't put money down payment goes up too much. That will kill me. One other question I take it that u have no regrets?
Regrets?

None really, except that I wish I had just bought one in the first place and avoid the 10K idiot tax.

the 6060 is a very good transmission.

If I had to point out something;

Maybe the clutch is a bit grabby off the line and/or when cold? As I haven't driven any other 550HP 4100lb vehicles though, I couldn't comment if it's normal with a dual-disc clutch/ lots of power and a heavy car..

after a few months I don't even really care.. even in stock trim the car is much more alive than the auto, and I swear it was louder(exhaust wise) too. With some Corsa sports, <3...

With the holidays comming I really think that if your can hold off on the mileage a bit and your payments are essentially paying off the depreciation/ that you should wait for some incentives to roll-around. There's always 3-5K worth of those around the corner.

The other thing to mention is that loaded 6MT vehicles are rare. You may need to serisouly consider that ordering your vehicle will be the only option. When me and my dealer went looking, most were base models/ even fewer were all optioned cars, and I don't think we ever found a 6MT /graphite rim/ yellow caliper V.

Much less one without a roof or wood trim, or even one in Opulent Blue.

pat2t2f
10-16-12, 01:04 PM
Jdani,,,, have you considered putting it up for sale privately? If someone offers you more for it than the dealer is offering it might make the decision easier. Also, I don't know what state you are in but here in NY you don't have to pay sales tax on the trade in value of your car. That might give you about $4,000 off the new car.

FLTRI
10-16-12, 01:17 PM
$20K to row your own gears?!? Sorry, I couldn't justify that even if I was a very rich man, and I'm not...

1997BlackETC
10-16-12, 03:34 PM
Heres my advice. From the way your talking in your original post, money is not all that much of a factor and from the usage of the car it sounds like it is mainly a toy for you, so why not get the ultimate toy? Take your caddy to a chevy dealer and see how much they will give for on your V towards a ZR1 Vette. That is the ultimate sports car for the money. Chances are they'd perk up the offer on your car some, being the V will be kinda a novelty to have at a chevy dealer on the used car lot so they may give you like around 55K for the V. You could probably knock em down around 10 grand off the Vette sticker and get the car for around 110K, so you lay out 55K more and get the ultimate sports car with a manual. Anyhow, thats my way thinking. If you don't have that kinda cash, as Rosanna Danna use to say "Never Mind" Just sell your V outright for maybe 56K if you can and try and get a new manual coupe for around 66K, that way you'd only be on the hook for 10K more and have a better toy than what you have now.

Last suggestion, stick with what you got, do a corsa exhaust and drive it in the manual mode all the time. That way it will feel much more sporty because as the revs increased with delay'd shifts you'll be able to hear the motor a lot more with the Corsa and shifting it manually through the shifter (especially if you do a tune for faster and firmer shifts) it will make the car feel much better for the type of feeling you talk about you want to experience. This is the poor mans option so to speak. I went from the expensive option above to the mid expense option to the least. Just my 2 cents.

Trionalaw
10-16-12, 04:39 PM
I have a 2012 CTS-V coupe with the six speed manual. It is my daily driver unless there is snow. I live in Cincinnati and for whatever reason most drivers here think snow actually increases traction. I have been passed by 2 Wheel Dr. pickup trucks when I am going 20 and they are going at least 50! I am getting all season tires to run during the winter but for the snow days.

This is the best manual transmission I have ever had. And I have had three M3's . The E36 had a five speed manual, E46 the SMG and E90 a six speed manual. The CTS-V has much shorter throws. I also had a 2008 C6 Corvette with the six speed manual.I had to buy a short throw shifter for it.

One of my three favorite things in the world to do is drive a car with a manual transmission. I cannot imagine my car with an automatic transmission.I find the clutch excellent and have no problem in stop and go traffic. I would recommend the manual to anyone.

6104696
10-16-12, 05:19 PM
$70K for a car that you love and is exactly what you want....or $50K for a car that you regret buying?

Only you can answer that question.

Stillborn
10-16-12, 05:45 PM
have you tried sport mode and shifting manually to the point were all you're missing is a sore left calve? i agree a manual is more "organic" as far as
the driving experience goes, and i've had my share of manual cars (14 to be exact) and i to was torn when i bought the v, but i have now had enough
"seat time" to fully adjust (it's more mental than anything) and have just as much fun firing off paddle shifts at will, or bumping the fun club down low.
sh*t, sometimes i downshift with the paddle (S2T) and up-shift with the club. try that with a manual, it can't be done. lol
the thing with the auto is you need to learn how to modulate throttle input (via your right foot) and not drive it like an manual were you can adjust grip
with the clutch. in any event i hope you find peace with your dilemma.

JFJr
10-16-12, 07:56 PM
It's not all about money. I spend a lot of time in my car. I believe that our cars reflect our personalities, good or bad. If you believe that then if money is not a real consideration, why not get what you want? Life is short. The accountant's approach to buying a high performance car is irrelevant. If it is you have to question if you are really a car guy, after all. We really are in the golden age of high performance cars.

Jud

Mike02z
10-16-12, 08:19 PM
I say if you have the money and really want the stick, do it. There was no choice for me. If there was no manual V I would not own one.

MikeG-V
10-16-12, 08:20 PM
Before I bought the V, I swore I would never ever get another stick. Now, I too am feeling somewhat the same.

At the risk of cheesing off a lot of people here (and my apologies to all the loyalists in this regard), have you thought of trading for a new Shelby GT500? Lower delta $ and more HP.

I know I've been thinking about it

Regards.

1997BlackETC
10-16-12, 08:30 PM
Well at least he didnt ask "how much would it be to convert a automatic car into a standard" That's always a fun question to answer.

I'd really think about my recommendation of a "Corsa exhaust, tune and shifting manually in sport mode" with these three things it will be like driving a different car and you might really grow to love this car and save yourself a boat load of money. You gotta think about taxes too. Some states allow for paying only the difference between trade in and new car, other states make you pay the whole tax regardless of trade, hard to believe but there are states like that out there.

larry arizona
10-16-12, 08:38 PM
It's not all about money. I spend a lot of time in my car. I believe that our cars reflect our personalities, good or bad. If you believe that then if money is not a real consideration, why not get what you want? Life is short. The accountant's approach to buying a high performance car is irrelevant. If it is you have to question if you are really a car guy, after all. We really are in the golden age of high performance cars.

Jud

i agree. life is short, get the car that makes you happy. i originally would have settled for a 6a to make it easier for the wife to drive the v however i truly wanted a 6m. well i got the 6m and would not be happy with a 6a and low and behold the wife has no problem driving the 6m. 6m is my personality.

tedcmiller
10-16-12, 09:02 PM
Automatic is the way to go. They might be a little boring, but they shift faster and you sacrifice only a little top end (the car will go faster than I will, auto or manual). Also, as has been pointed out, the auto can be manually shifted via the gear shift in the console or the paddles on the back of the steering wheel. Also, as been pointed out over and over, there is the question of the extra money that switching to a manual will cost. I assume that you know that the auto in auto and non-sport mode starts off in second gear. This can be avoided by switching to sporting mode and remaining in auto mode. I have a 2009 CTS-V Sedan and my wife has a 2013 CTS-V Coupe. They are both automatic. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Jdani
10-16-12, 09:03 PM
Thank you all for great suggestions. its amazing how you can relate. If I ran this by everyday people they really would think I lost my mind. Still not sure what to do I will have to sleep on it a bit. I wonder I it's something that will pass. I don't think so though. Maybe I should give it some time and try to enjoy. The worst thing I did was drive tht stick. Maybe I should consider the Corza exhaust an tuning. Ill keep u posted thanks again

1997BlackETC
10-16-12, 09:23 PM
For now just try driving it in sport mode all the time, as was pointed out at least that way you are starting out in first gear, when in non sport mode the car can feel kinda sluggish off the line as it is starting out in 2nd.

M5eater
10-16-12, 09:46 PM
Before I bought the V, I swore I would never ever get another stick. Now, I too am feeling somewhat the same.

At the risk of cheesing off a lot of people here (and my apologies to all the loyalists in this regard), have you thought of trading for a new Shelby GT500? Lower delta $ and more HP.

I know I've been thinking about it

Regards.

I don't think anyone here will argue with that facit.

The new shelby looks good, sounds good, and well.. it *is* good.

but so is the ZL1 >_>

JFJr
10-16-12, 09:50 PM
For now just try driving it in sport mode all the time, as was pointed out at least that way you are starting out in first gear, when in non sport mode the car can feel kinda sluggish off the line as it is starting out in 2nd.Well, drive that auto any way it can be driven, and then decide. If you still don't like it, go for what you want. That's why we have choices. If you like to drag race a luxury car, then the auto is very slightly quicker to 0-60, if that is important. If you like higher top end if you road race, and /or like more connection with the car regardless of racing or not, the manual is better. Both transmissions are good for what they are. The manual guys love the setup; a lot of the auto guys on this forum immediately think about tunes and mods to get where they want to be. Why is that? Great car in any event.

Jud

Bubba Ho-Tep
10-16-12, 11:48 PM
Why does the manual have better top end?

FSTMRFR
10-17-12, 12:06 AM
Or find an unpurchased new... 2012 coupe with a manual.... Saving a few jems from the 13 sort of splits the difference... In the meanwhile take the car to carmax, see if they give u a more premium buck for it... Or advertise locally/semi local... Put it at a moderate price that sells quickly for a private consumer but makes u more than dealer offers u......

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Before I bought the V, I swore I would never ever get another stick. Now, I too am feeling somewhat the same.

At the risk of cheesing off a lot of people here (and my apologies to all the loyalists in this regard), have you thought of trading for a new Shelby GT500? Lower delta $ and more HP.

I know I've been thinking about it

Regards.

But they weigh more than a v coupe.... I am die hard ford guy (I own a 04 mystichrome cobra twin turbo making 988rwhp though an auto).... I contemplated a 500, it's over done.... Also considered a GT-R.... Finalized with luxury and performance...now I own a v coupe manual.... The 500 is not a forgiving car.... Machine made to run fast and some shit to make it look like its worth the pennies u spent on it.... If u want a racecar, meaning...not many creature comforts,then the 500 is the way to go.... If u want the best of both worlds then u are already there.... Just need to fine tune ur particulars..... Good luck.... Hope this helps u out....

ClarkkentCTSV
10-17-12, 02:56 AM
Drive an A6 with a transmission tune and paddle shifters. It is night and day difference. My shifts are fast and firm. It will also rev match when down shifting in manual mode. I have owned many manual cars and had an M3 with SMG Transmission and can honestly tell you I love the way my V drives with the setup I have.
I can pull up to a nice function and not worry about stalling out with the clutch. I can then leave the event and switch over to manual mode and rip it up. The A6 is very versatile it allows you to drive like a caddy, but can get more involved if you want it to. Either way its a choice you have to make. Good luck

Jdani
10-17-12, 07:22 AM
Drive an A6 with a transmission tune and paddle shifters. It is night and day difference. My shifts are fast and firm. It will also rev match when down shifting in manual mode. I have owned many manual cars and had an M3 with SMG Transmission and can honestly tell you I love the was my V drives with the setup I have.
I can pull up to a nice function and not worry about stalling out with the clutch. I can then leave the event and switch over to manual mode and rip it up. The A6 is very versatile it allows you to drive like a caddy, but can get more involved if you want it to. Either way its a choice you have to make. Good luck

I like this way of looking at it... Plus it will save me lots of money.... Where do I get info on having this tranny tuned??

M5eater
10-17-12, 08:07 AM
Why does the manual have better top end?
less drivetrain loss, and it's ~ 100lbs lighter= more power to the wheels = goes a bit faster in theory, the TR6060's 5th and 6th gear ratios are also slightly shorter. The advantage is slightly-offset by the fact that the auto still shifts quicker, but the 6MT typically makes 30-40hp more than auto's. The advantage roll-racing at highways speeds goes to the manual where you're not bogging off the line or worrying about pedal modulation ultimately, and if you're 'one of those people' that road-races into stupid-scary speeds down in mexico or out in russia, there's the limiter thing.

Most people are not, so, whatever it's really marginal I would say without seeing an A6 and a 6MT go head-to head.


I like this way of looking at it... Plus it will save me lots of money.... Where do I get info on having this tranny tuned??

depends on where you live. Otherwise if you want to just mail-order tune it, any one of the vendors on here could help you out.

larry arizona
10-17-12, 08:26 AM
Thought the A6 was limited to 175MPH because the there was something in the tranny that will let go at higher speeds???

M5eater
10-17-12, 08:56 AM
Thought the A6 was limited to 175MPH because the there was something in the tranny that will let go at higher speeds???

For sustained high-speeds yes.

I've heard that the clutch-basket needs to be reinforced, and there's a rear outputshaft bearing that does not get enough lubrication.


You can probably get away with texas-mile runs and things of that nature, I'm sure there are a few A6 people out there that already do this. There's never enough info about what they changed (if anything) in their trans to run that fast, or if they're just crossing their fingers and wearing adult diapers waiting for the trans to blow up @ 180mph.

Xaqtly
10-17-12, 12:06 PM
In my opinion, there is nothing you can do to the automatic transmission that will sate the desire for a proper 6-speed manual. You can make it shift faster, you can use the shift buttons on the steering wheel, but if you want to shift the car manually with 3 pedals on the floor, there is no replacement for the 6M. This isn't an argument against the automatic, it's an argument against the idea that the automatic, no matter how good it is, will satisfy somebody who wants a manual. It won't.

And that's what it boils down to. If you want a manual, then nothing else will do. None of us can tell you which one will make you happier or if you could live with the auto and be satisfied after tuning it and running in sport mode, only you can answer that. I'm just saying that if you want to shift the car manually with a stick and 3 pedals on the floor, there is no automatic transmission on the planet that can satisfy that need.

I think honestly the only way you can make a decision that you will truly be happy with is to wrangle a test drive in a 6M V. Or maybe somebody in your area will let you drive theirs. If you can get a drive in somebody's 6A with a tune, that will probably also help. You may decide that a tuned 6A livens it up enough that you don't need a manual after all, and problem solved. But regardless, it's my opinion, and my personal philosophy, that you shouldn't compromise if it doesn't make you happy.

M5eater
10-17-12, 12:44 PM
In my opinion, there is nothing you can do to the automatic transmission that will sate the desire for a proper 6-speed manual. You can make it shift faster, you can use the shift buttons on the steering wheel, but if you want to shift the car manually with 3 pedals on the floor, there is no replacement for the 6M. This isn't an argument against the automatic, it's an argument against the idea that the automatic, no matter how good it is, will satisfy somebody who wants a manual. It won't.


agreed.

The agrument being made that you can 'improve' the 6AT by making it shift faster is irrelevent. It sounds good in theory, that it somehow makes it more exciting, but I ultimately concluded it can not for what I wanted.

I wanted a 6MT because it's a manual. I already knew it shifted slower to begin with. Rowing gears, listening to backfire, throwing it in neutral to coast down, going from 1st to 4th to save some gas, rolling backwards up hills, throwing caution to the wind and doing some burn-outs knowing all it'll set me back is a clutch at worst or any other associated aftermarket possibilities which are limitless with the 6060..

That's why I bought the Manual. Not because the Automatic was infuriatingly slow. It was becuase it sucked the soul out of the car in my opinion, and when you have a 550hp car that you putz around in on public roads most of the time or as a weekend car, you need all the soul you can get. Driving around super-cars for no more than 4 seconds at a time for fear of inprisonment gets boring unless those 4 seconds are amazing.

truthfully, and I've said this many times now, but I prefered my slower car's for total driving enjoyment value. I've seriously considered a few times now getting rid of the V and picking up a worse car. Something that's not quite as fast and I can enjoy for more than 4 seconds, or something that's not quite so complete and takes some tinkering, I don't know. It's an odd feeling, I bought a new car because I was sick of the Audi being on jack stands. Now I wish I could have that back, all I do now is wash,polish and worry about which $20 plastic fitting I'm using on my catch can.

damn you car! why won't you just break!

ClarkkentCTSV
10-17-12, 01:49 PM
I like this way of looking at it... Plus it will save me lots of money.... Where do I get info on having this tranny tuned??

I would look for a reputable tuner in your area and suggest some simple mods to get a little more out of your money. I completely agree with the above statements on the A6 vs M6. With a manual you are more connected to the car while driving. The automatic will not replicate the feel of a 6speed, but with a good tune it comes close. Just my opinion.

sybersport
10-18-12, 01:27 PM
Wanna trade? I have a white 2011 manual V sedan with B&B exhaust and factory black chrome wheels. I love the car and tranny, but with a baby on the way and a wife that can't (and won't) drive a stick, I have been debating my options moving forward...

I'm kidding (sort of)

MikeG-V
10-18-12, 05:20 PM
While we are on this topic, does anyone know why first gear in an automatic is 4.02 and the manual 2.66?

In sport, I have to shift pretty quick off the line.

I'm guessing it has something to do w clutch but I'm generally clueless about trannies. Regards.

larry arizona
10-18-12, 06:50 PM
Auto has a 3.23 rearend and manny has a 3.73 But the auto still has a lower ratio in first.

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trust me the 6M is plenty steep 1st gear while launching with a clutch.

Hotrod-Realtor
10-18-12, 07:00 PM
Wanna trade? I have a white 2011 manual V sedan with B&B exhaust and factory black chrome wheels. I love the car and tranny, but with a baby on the way and a wife that can't (and won't) drive a stick, I have been debating my options moving forward...

I'm kidding (sort of)

Right there is your answer. Swap cars and save 20K. Simply Brilliant.

khoeysr
10-19-12, 04:40 PM
Oh just do it. Life is too short.

I bought a crystal red 09 sedan. When I found out they were making a coupe, I traded it on a black raven 10 coupe. Then this past spring I saw a crystal red coupe and realized I loved the red, so I traded the black 10 for a red 12.

thebigjimsho
10-24-12, 10:31 AM
agreed.

The agrument being made that you can 'improve' the 6AT by making it shift faster is irrelevent. It sounds good in theory, that it somehow makes it more exciting, but I ultimately concluded it can not for what I wanted.

I wanted a 6MT because it's a manual. I already knew it shifted slower to begin with. Rowing gears, listening to backfire, throwing it in neutral to coast down, going from 1st to 4th to save some gas, rolling backwards up hills, throwing caution to the wind and doing some burn-outs knowing all it'll set me back is a clutch at worst or any other associated aftermarket possibilities which are limitless with the 6060..

That's why I bought the Manual. Not because the Automatic was infuriatingly slow. It was becuase it sucked the soul out of the car in my opinion, and when you have a 550hp car that you putz around in on public roads most of the time or as a weekend car, you need all the soul you can get. Driving around super-cars for no more than 4 seconds at a time for fear of inprisonment gets boring unless those 4 seconds are amazing.

truthfully, and I've said this many times now, but I prefered my slower car's for total driving enjoyment value. I've seriously considered a few times now getting rid of the V and picking up a worse car. Something that's not quite as fast and I can enjoy for more than 4 seconds, or something that's not quite so complete and takes some tinkering, I don't know. It's an odd feeling, I bought a new car because I was sick of the Audi being on jack stands. Now I wish I could have that back, all I do now is wash,polish and worry about which $20 plastic fitting I'm using on my catch can.

damn you car! why won't you just break!

Try an older V. The personality is off the charts...

M5eater
10-24-12, 10:34 AM
Try an older V. The personality is off the charts...
I'm giving it serious thought.