View Full Version : Looking for advice

10-12-12, 11:37 PM
SO i bought a 2010 with 42k miles on it for 42k about a month ago. The guy emailed me a copy of carfax and everything in the carfax looked ok. So i bought the car. Today i took the car to the dealer ship and he said that car hoods was painted i thought this guy does not know what he is talking about but it put a bug in my ear so i ran a carfax report and it looks like the car was in a Front impact accident. The airbags did not deploy though but the guy altered the carfax report when he emailed it to me and did not mention anything about an accident through out the process. Now the car is registered under my name and i will be contacting a lawyer and i think because of the email i have i might be able to prove that he intended to commit fraud from the beginning. What do you guys think?

V locity
10-13-12, 12:25 AM
Sue the Funker. Fraud is inexcusable

10-13-12, 12:44 AM
Altering the carfax is proof of the fraud. Have him take back the car and give you all the money and associated costs. If you bought it from another state, the may be some federal crime to be invoked.

10-13-12, 12:48 AM
Did you ask him if the car had ever been in an accident? Check the date it was reported and the date on his Carfax. Maybe he sold it before it was reported? Carfax isn't accurate and most of the time won't tell you anything about accidents. Gives you ownership change, odometer inconsistencies, salvage and if your lucky you get an accident report. I am not a lawyer but would think it would be tough to prove. Always best to have your mechanic check it over before you purchase. Hope all works out for you.

10-13-12, 06:29 AM
The seller altered the Carfax and the OP obtained the Carfax after purchase. Unless, as you say, the accident was reported after the first Carfax was done, there is indeed fraud. I usually check a Carfax AND an Autocheck in cars I am seriously considering. They each have slightly different sources and so an incident reported on one may not be on the other. Nothing, though, trumps a paid inspection, even and especially on an out of town purchase.

10-13-12, 08:22 AM
How do you know the carfax report was altered. If there is proof of that I think you are in good shape. If you only think it was altered because the accident isn't on there that might be different. How much damage was there? If it's just the hood it might not be worth the effort. If there was structural damage thats different. Good luck

10-13-12, 10:46 AM
the report says
02/28/2012 Virginia
Damage Report Accident reported
Involving front impact
It hit a motor vehicle
Airbags did not deploy


the reason why i say altered is the carfax he sent me was up till june of 2012 and the accident happened in Feburary and it did not list it. The carfax did have stuff before and after the accident in his report it is just missing the accident part

10-13-12, 11:02 AM
Establishing intent to defraud in the court system can be a difficult hurdle to get over.
What is your final objective? What kind of an outcome are you looking for?

10-13-12, 04:32 PM
I want to get at least 5k back from the guy

larry arizona
10-13-12, 05:16 PM
the impact was less than 23 mph and or greater than a 30 degree angle, both are airbag thresholds for deployment in a frontal impact. but the side and curtain airbags would have deployed if greater than a 30 degree angle impact. so likely a minor accident that got the front cover grill and hood and headlights. i would not stress about it if the repair looks good. inspect the front structure to see if the radiator support looks clean and straight. hood and front cover repair repaint is common.

10-13-12, 09:17 PM
Definitely shady on the part of the seller, but you'll have a tough time doing anything legally based solely on the altered CarFax - you'd have to prove that he knowingly altered the original with the intent to defraud you, and unless he signed an affidavit certifying the original copy, I don't think that will happen. You could report him to CarFax though; their agreement may include some wording that could make him liable to them. Caveat emptor I'm afraid, but I agree that if there was no airbag deployment, the damage was likely largely cosmetic.

10-13-12, 10:40 PM
It typically takes 3 months for an accident to hit Car Fax. I agree the previous owner should have declared the accident to you but if all you asked for was a Car Fax, it may not have been doctored when he ran it. If you asked if it was in any accidents and he lied, that is unethical. Not defending anyone for not providing full disclosure after an accident. But then again, if you drive you car like a maniac all the time would you tell the person you were selling it to? Just curious. I probably would not.

Is the car running good and looking good? Was it repaired properly? If so, I'd just enjoy it not get all stressed out. Life is too short and you have a great car. Just my opinion.

10-14-12, 12:27 AM
The annoying part is that he is a rich ******* His house is worth 2.5Million according to Zillow and he owns like three businesses bestwaymarket.com M&T distributors and something else as well. Name is Michael Choi and the stupid ass will not even respond to my messages to tell me how much damage was repaired. I may not have a case but one thing i have learnt in USA is case does not matter what matters is who is your Lawyer. I have a Doctor Cousin who is in 1% i told him and he is getting me in touch with his lawyer lets see what the guy says when he gets a letter from one of the Top law firms in the USA.

Just so any one who is following this thread as i dont know the extent of the dmage i have decided to take a hit on my current car and trade it in for a 2012.

10-14-12, 12:36 AM
Did you ask him if the car was ever in an accident?

In my mind, if he lied, this is the only potential legal claim you might have. Even then, who is to say the car was not hit before he bought it? As I said, takes a while to hit Car Fax. Sounds fishy but from a legal perspective, tough to prove.If you did not ask, I think your SOL.

Did you only ask to see the Car Fax?

If so, and he did not fake it, I think you don't have a strong case here either but I'm no lawyer.

You also never answered the question as to whether the car appears to be right or if you can easily tell it was an an accident?

Sucks that this happened either way. Good luck man.

10-14-12, 01:14 AM
Actually the car looks beautiful. I could not tell that the hood and the fenders were new the color matched perfectly but i took the car to multiple dealerships and all the dealers could tell right away that the whole front was repainted.

I always ask if the car was in an accident i did ask him over the phone and that is when he said no and i asked him if he had a carfax and he said yes and sent me a copy via email.

He was the first owner of the car so he definitely knew about the accident.

10-14-12, 02:01 AM
Did any of the dealers point out how they could tell it was repainted/repaired?

10-14-12, 08:19 AM
I agree with other posts on this thread. If the car runs right and only an expert can tell I don't think it's worth the hassle. Here is another thought. What if he doesn't know? Who is to say he wasn't away for a month and someone else (relative or staff) didn't crash it, get it repaired and never told him. It does suck and he should return your messages. Good luck.

10-14-12, 10:02 AM
Sounds like you were lied to. I would certainly say something but I still think it's a tough battle legally. You say the car looks beautiful so I'd say your piece and enjoy your new car. I'd also advise in the future that you spend the 30 bucks and run the Car Fax yourself. Hindsight is always 20/20 but if you had ran it you there would be no talk about him doctoring it.

larry arizona
10-14-12, 11:38 AM
carfax is a joke and a tool that dealerships can manipulate and use as a clever marketing scam. nothing better than your own knowledge or a trusted professional. body work and paint is simple to detect.

ruby 1
10-14-12, 06:01 PM
"The carfax did have stuff before and after the accident in his report it is just missing the accident part."
Do You mean one page was missing with the accident report on it? Are the pages numbered?

10-14-12, 07:01 PM
If the question was asked about an accident and there was a lie, damages can be sought. If there is any evidence through emails, that's good enough.

10-14-12, 07:07 PM
If it were a local sale, I would strongly suggest small claims court.

Since I believe it's across the country, you could look into whether small claims, perhaps by proxy, is an option.

10-14-12, 11:58 PM
This was a local CAR and small claims are for stuff under 12k i think in VA.

I talked to a real good Attorney he is sending him a letter tomorrow to make sure he understands I am serious about this and am not going to back down.

On the positive side i traded this car in and Got a 2012 Black Diamond Tricoat, Yellow calipers and no Sunroof (yoo hoo)

10-15-12, 01:53 AM
Did you let your attorney know you were trading in the car? What outcome are you looking for with the attorney's letter? Money back? Just curious.

This was a local CAR and small claims are for stuff under 12k i think in VA.

I talked to a real good Attorney he is sending him a letter tomorrow to make sure he understands I am serious about this and am not going to back down.

On the positive side i traded this car in and Got a 2012 Black Diamond Tricoat, Yellow calipers and no Sunroof (yoo hoo)

10-15-12, 10:10 AM
A buddy of mine bought a POrsche Turbo and similar thing happened to him as well the car had an accident. He tried to return the car but the guy would not budge so he got an attorney to send a letter that unless fair compensation is done they are ready to sue for damages. Sure enough he got money back.

Now that i have traded in the car ( the main reason for trading in the car was that it was accidental and i did not feel safe and also the fact that i was scared to buy a used car and have this happen again ) my lawyer said that will not effect the outcome of the sue if anything i can sue for more money as because of this extra mental stress i had to buy a new car and pay 20k+ to get a replacement vehicle.

10-15-12, 10:55 AM
something to be taken from this is to always do your own due diligence.

10-15-12, 12:12 PM
Agreed, you should have taken the car to a dealer for a PPI before the transaction occured. Even out of state, you can still have the guy run the car to his local dealer where you pay for a PPI via credit card. At least then you have a (quasi) professional opinion about the car.

10-19-12, 11:43 AM
never ever trust a carfax. I have owned 19 cars in the last 10 years and had a few where the carfax showed no accidents and later accidents pop up.
When i buy a car now, part of my inspection is a carfax, and an autocheck, but it doesn't stop be from a thorough inspection. Ive looked at dozen of cars with repainted panels, or hidden damge that show clean report.

As far as fraud. The seller is just going to point to the info they had at the time...a 3rd party carfax. I believe there are no repercussions, sorry.

10-05-14, 01:53 PM
Mrkool, I am curious as to how this turned out. I am an attorney, and ihave a case against Michael Choi. I would love to have a copy of the altered Carfax report.